|
Ravane posted:If you read the history of Dumbledore, you can absolutely tell that Dumbledore loved Grindlewald. It's not lazy at all, it just wasn't overt. Dumbledore didn't talk about his relationships or his life because it was too heartbreaking. The point was that being gay was a facet of his character, being in love with his best friend led to his own sister's death. However, Dumbledore wasn't defined as the big gay ol' wizard. And to call that preferable to the loads of other gay characters around who have overt sexualities outside of subtext, telling stories about the queer experience, changing people's lives by sheer existence and example, is utterly asinine. "It's okay to be gay, but it's not okay to be gay too much." Again I say: gently caress that. Ravane posted:People always want this caricature of LGBT relationships. It seems progressive simply because it's depicted, but in my opinion, it only does more harm to the community. I'd rather a character be written well and be straight, than be gay and have that dictate the rest of his actions. You want an LGBT character? Ask for one that's written well. Forcing Korra into a nonsensical relationship is stupid and unnecessary.
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 06:13 |
|
|
edit: you know what, nevermind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 21:58
|
|
|
Pau posted:So um... I really like this show and all. Show them the latest season of Korra with a bit of added backstory and if they're sufficiently interested by it you can go from there? I dunno. I agree that the first season (especially the first episode) of ATLA is not a good introduction for a lot of people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 21:58
|
|
|
Pau posted:So um... I really like this show and all. If they did, tell them to just give it time, and if they really press you, tell them how Zuko got his scar.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:Did your friends like The Incredibles? If not, they're not gonna like Avatar, and also you should get new friends. If you can manage this, it will give them the best experience probably.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:03
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:Dumbledore is like the worst, laziest example of a gay character ever. A character that is only gay through subtext and covert undertones and that the literal only reason it's a thing at all is because the writer talked about it in an interview after the entire series was over. Basically, we can totally have our gay representation, but only in the absolute most hidden and invisible manner that has the absolute least effect on anything whatsoever. So the character can be gay as long as they're gay quietly. To be fair, Dumbledore grew up in an era where being gay was looked down upon by the Muggle community at the very least. I doubt the Wizarding world would've been any more progressive. Likely the opposite in fact, since they basically ended up fighting a race war in the goddamn 90s.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:05
|
|
|
Pau posted:So um... I really like this show and all. For ATLA you could maybe show them a couple great stand-alone episodes like The Blue Spirit or The Blind Bandit. That way they know how good the show can get as they struggle through the first half of book 1. I always warned my friends that it takes a bit for ATLA to find it's footing. You could also have them skip some of the more kiddy episodes of book 1 and fill them in on any characters who they'll have missed. They could probably get away with just watching the first 3 episodes, the winter-solstace two parter (or at least part 2), The Waterbending Scroll, Jet, The Storm, and everything after that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:12
|
|
|
Also tell them not to touch The Great Divide (11th episode of Book One). Ever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
I have to admit the first few episodes of ATLA did put me off of it for a few months, I hadn't realized how much of an awesome magic kung fu show it would be until later.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Don't show them the Blue Spirit on its own! That is awful advice. That moment where Aang asks Zuko if maybe they could have been friends too is meaningless without the past 12 episodes, especially The Storm, building up their animosity.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
There's nothing wrong with Dumbledore qua Dumbledore, but touting him as the best example of a gay character in fiction is really silly considering it was literally something Rowling revealed in an interview after the final Harry Potter book was released. In the 7th book there's subtext that suggests his relationship with Grindelwald was very deep and emotional possibly to the level of romance (and, to the reader, this is quite a deep inference that it's easy not to make!), and that's it. As many people in this thread have said already, gay characters in fiction shouldn't have to operate under a veil of Straight Secrecy and subtext in order not to be considered pandering. I don't think they'll run with Korra or Asami being bisexual, either, but if they did it would no more "dominate Korra's character" than the fact that she's assumed straight does currently. To be prosey for a second, one of the ways in which subtle anti-gay sentiment operates is that straightness in media is considered normal, default, unremarkable, while queerness in media is characterised as Pandering or Making A Fuss, and, you know, there's nothing wrong with it, but do you have to be so loud about it? etc. Straight characters and straight romance arcs don't come under anything like that level of hand-wringing scrutiny. e: also re: Dumbledore his one subtextual relationship is in his teens/twenties and it's with an evil Nazi super-wizard who kills thousands with his dark magic, after which he is presumably celibate for the rest of his extremely long life. Not that that's an illegitimate story beat, but another reason he's probably not the representation go-to. Android Blues fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Aug 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:27
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:Don't show them the Blue Spirit on its own! That is awful advice. That moment where Aang asks Zuko if maybe they could have been friends too is meaningless without the past 12 episodes, especially The Storm, building up their animosity. The Blue Spirit is the first full episode I watched and it got me into the rest of the show. Yeah it works better if you know the characters, but it's the best episode in book 1 for showing off the excellent fight choreography and animation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:34
|
|
|
i hate meatloaf posted:The Blue Spirit is the first full episode I watched and it got me into the rest of the show. Yeah it works better if you know the characters, but it's the best episode in book 1 for showing off the excellent fight choreography and animation. Are you me? This is literally, word for word, how this show hooked me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 22:39
|
|
|
Try suggesting to friends that it's honestly not a very long series. At thirty-minute stretches, a single season of Avatar only comes in at little more than nine hours. Korra seasons are even way shorter than that. I honestly feel like if anyone has ever binged through any sort of cartoon or young adult programming, then ATLA should be a cakewalk to them. But the thing is that if your friends don't like animation in general, then trying to get them into ATLA or Korra is gonna be even more of a struggle. Nowadays when people recommend shows to one another it's usually stuff like The Office or Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or something, and there's almost a bit of a learning curve going from that sort of thing and into an animated series. Which is really unfortunate, because in my mind Avatar stands shoulder to shoulder with anything that any "legit" shows have to offer. ShadowCatboy posted:To be fair, Dumbledore grew up in an era where being gay was looked down upon by the Muggle community at the very least. I doubt the Wizarding world would've been any more progressive. Likely the opposite in fact, since they basically ended up fighting a race war in the goddamn 90s. Anyways, derailing, sorry.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:02
|
|
|
Ravane posted:If you want an introduction of a gay, bisexual, whatever character in a show, his orientation should not be the only thing about him. So, you want a character with a lot of other development and characteristics unrelated to their sexuality. Ravane posted:If they suddenly made Korra bisexual, her bisexuality would suddenly be her biggest selling point, and in my opinion that's wrong. So here you're saying that as soon as she comes out, the entire past 3 seasons of characterization and development that are unrelated to her sexuality are thrown out the window. Like, just think about how contradictory these two sentences are. Ravane posted:But that's all anyone would ever talk about, and suddenly Korra is not "that badass avatar", she's "that bisexual avatar." No no no, that's all you would talk about, you terrible, disgusting homophobe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Not that I'd want it to be written this way in this case, but I find the idea that a show whose core themes and conflicts have all revolved around our hero feeling like she doesn't have a place in the world, and the villains who heartily agree, doesn't have "lgbt themes" kind of funny.
Pomp fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Aug 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:09
|
|
|
I'm giving this thread 2 more pages before it's closed if you people keep this up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
PiedPiper posted:Also tell them not to touch The Great Divide (11th episode of Book One). Ever. My one regret about this franchise is that the Canyon Guide was not voiced by sam elliot
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:43
|
|
|
TheModernAmerican posted:No no no, that's all you would talk about, you terrible, disgusting homophobe. You pugnacious son of a bitch, you really wanna go don'tcha? You think if it came to it, I wouldn't kneel down and suck Dumbledore's 90-year-old decrepit dick? Man, I would suck so hard, he'd think he took some kind of magical viagra, because his fuckin' penis would suddenly spring back to life. Guess what, looks like you didn't expect bisexuality to be a facet of my character. You call me a homophobe, looks like I'm a walking contradiction. And if I can hide my sexuality this easily, it can't be that hard to write a character that's complex enough to have a different sexual orientation and not let it be overt. If you honestly think that Korra's sudden "I'm not in the closet anymore" antics could actually pass as a serious plotline, I feel bad for you. The media's so saturated with the "oh, I feel bad, it's time to have a lesbian moment trope" that yes, it is harmful to the LGBT crowd. If Korra was gonna come out of the closet, she should have had scenes of being in the closet for the past three seasons, or else yes, this poo poo will overshadow everything else. And before you call someone a homophobe, you better do your research lest you find yourself in a herd of gay sheep Aberforth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:46
|
|
|
So first you're really handwringingly put off by the prospect of maybe a queer relationship in the show because Korra wasn't shown to be in the closet in a fantasy world where it doesn't even need to exist, let alone the fact that just because she was in a relationship with a man does not mean she would have to have been in the closet; and now you're really mad that someone's calling out your internalized homophobia like internalized homophobia isn't a thing that exist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:52
|
|
|
What. I do not know if I should respond, much less how. All I did was point out a logical contradiction in your post, why do I need to research? Also I never talked about Dumledore, I haven't even read Harry Potter.  e: Also people have been hiding their sexuality for millenia. That whole closet thing? Are you aware of it?
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
Ravane posted:You pugnacious son of a bitch, you really wanna go don'tcha? This is the best post ever
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
Also my original point, the one that kicked off this 3 page derail, was that I felt uncomfortable with it being hinted at all. So yeah, I don't think a half assed relationship plot would be good. It's like you saw my post and replied to a different one entirely. What are you even doing?
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
Yes please shut up about Korra hypothetically being gay. Does anyone really want to see that handled by guys who wrote an entire revolution motivated by "a firebender kicked my dog" in season 1? And the whole "you know what's funny? Abusive, possessive relationships!" Of season 2? ATLA was great because the romances were tiny side plots composed mostly of blushing, sideways glances shared by awkward tweens and Zuko/Mai being ridiculous in their own special ways. If they basically made Korra blush when Asami was nice to her, that's about the limit of romance i trust these writers with at this point. So I'd rather they just not touch it. Can we talk about something else now?
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
Ravane posted:Why? Because it's not important whatsoever. It's like if Korra adopted Zoroastrianism randomly and people started saying, "Oh that's Korra, the orthodox Zoroastrian Avatar." Like her religion had anything to do with her avatar capabilities. She's no longer just Korra, the avatar. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2014 23:59
|
|
|
Yeah, let's discuss the comics. What's going on with them these days? Has a new one come out or was the last one Zuko's search for his mum? What's the next one about?
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:00
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Yeah, let's discuss the comics. What's going on with them these days? Has a new one come out or was the last one Zuko's search for his mum? What's the next one about? There has been a new one since The Search, called The Rift. 2 out of 3 of the issues have come out, with issue 3 due in November, I think. It's about a joint fire nation/earth kingdom mining venture and some spirit issues. And Aang teaching the Air Acolytes some bits of Air Nomad culture. And it has some good Toph stuff!
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:04
|
|
|
Jackard posted:Funny you should mention that, given the relationship of Raava and Vaatu I didn't pick that religion at random. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:09
|
|
|
Man it's a shame they had Korra play pro bending, because it made her Korra, the pro bender, not Korra, the avatar. It's literally impossible to consider an avatar now that she's a bisexual Zoroastrian pro bender. What a shame people can only have one trait. Really it'd be best if she just sat in a room judging world events, the way an avatar should.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
blurry! posted:ATLA was great because the romances were tiny side plots composed mostly of blushing, sideways glances shared by awkward tweens and Zuko/Mai being ridiculous in their own special ways. Oh, man. Zuko/Mai have one of my favorite romantic exchanges of all time. "You're so beautiful when you hate the world." "I don't hate you." "I don't hate you too."
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
TheModernAmerican posted:Man it's a shame they had Korra play pro bending, because it made her Korra, the pro bender, not Korra, the avatar. It's literally impossible to consider an avatar now that she's a bisexual Zoroastrian pro bender. What a shame people can only have one trait.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:19
|
|
|
Korra gay, so what.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:19
|
|
|
Zedd posted:I'm giving this thread 2 more pages before it's closed if you people keep this up. I tried 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:20
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:This is the best thread ever. The only way to improve a bad thread is by making it worse, I'm doing my best! (Sorry for being an rear end, let's just move on.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:23
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Korra gay, so what. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:23
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:This is the best thread ever. Hey man, don't quote me on Twitter without referencing me directly. I copyright this poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:32
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:This is the best thread ever. It really is. I never expected to see such a sentence put forth so passionately. Or at all. What are we even arguing anymore is this what it all comes too we are tearing ourselves apart everything changed when the bisexual Zoroastrian pro bender avatar attacked
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:35
|
|
|
blurry! posted:It really is. I never expected to see such a sentence put forth so passionately. Or at all. What are we even arguing anymore is this what it all comes too we are tearing ourselves apart I wasn't the one to bring up any of those words, I think it's just as ridiculous as you. e: this includes pro bending, which needs to be made fun of at all chances MatildaTheHun fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Aug 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:48
|
|
|
You know what, let's just settle this with some relevant fanart.   And not-so-relevant:   
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 06:13 |
|
|
this franchise has always had the best comic-relief varmints  big noble varmint + small mischievous varmint is a good formula that more kids' shows should adopt, maybe invert. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Aug 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2014 00:57
|
|