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space kobold posted:He spent the first 12 minutes going over how distraught he was with the literal smell of the book. I got bored and tuned out after that. Ya I didn't make it much farther, after bitching about the smell he started bitching about Drow being a playable race. Who cares, lore is what you make of it, if someone wants to play an elf with street cred then whatever, more power to them. So sad because I really like some of Spoonies others videos, like his Ultima series where he's very informative and its obvious he is really passionate about the subject matter but lately he has just been making vids along the line of "I HATE THIS CAUSE" and raising his voice in fake anger and stuff.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:15
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Agent Boogeyman posted:My favorite (Most irritating) aspect of any of Spoony's rants about 4E are about how he complains about poo poo that was standardized in 3E (Sometimes 2E or even as far back as OD&D), carried over into Pathfinder (Which he states is his favorite tabletop system ever) and acts like it was 4E's fault. That and half his arguments betray the fact that he only ever cracked open the first three core 4E books (If not just the PHB) because anyone who has actually played it can prove him wrong in about five seconds flat. The other half of his bad arguments come from a misconception of what D&D is supposed to be, so it makes me wonder if he's ever actually played or ran D&D in his life. One of his videos was a huge rant about how he doesn't understand the mentality that players should have any agency whatsoever, that everything should be left to either the whim of the dice or DM fiat, and how he got banned from organized play for actively changing the rules so that the players purposefully got dicked over. He has played D&D before--he was in some 4e campaign with Lordkat and Angry Joe, which he pretty much ruined by getting into a skype call during a session (that he said he wasn't going to be in for whatever reason) and made fun of the fact that they were fighting giant bees. Spoony is That Guy made manifest. Cainer posted:Ya I didn't make it much farther, after bitching about the smell he started bitching about Drow being a playable race. Who cares, lore is what you make of it, if someone wants to play an elf with street cred then whatever, more power to them. So sad because I really like some of Spoonies others videos, like his Ultima series where he's very informative and its obvious he is really passionate about the subject matter but lately he has just been making vids along the line of "I HATE THIS CAUSE" and raising his voice in fake anger and stuff. What he likes, he really likes. What he hates, he really hates. Unfortunately he hates more stuff than he actually likes.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:19
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I still can't truly hate him, if only because of his Yor, Hunter From The Future review. In something a bit more on topic. Have they released any more details concerning their changes to kobolds this edition, outside of that little monster teaser? This is important to me because reasons.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:24
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neonchameleon posted:Oh, indeed. But some people like obnoxious overproduced fantasy boilerplate for their settings. For the rest of us there's the Nentir Vale, Eberron, Dark Sun, Planescape, and lots of others. The big problem the 4e Realms had is that people who don't like obnoxious overproduced boilerplate avoided it because that's what the Realms have been about since the mid 90s. And the people who liked the realms didn't get their obnoxious overproduced boilerplate and called the setting ruined. No-one ever gives Birthright its due...
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Aug 30, 2014 20:52
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Stupid newbie question, what do you add to a damage roll? For example, a level one monk with proficiency in simple weapons hits with a quarterstaff. The quarterstaff is 1d6. Do I add my Dex modifier? And my proficiency bonus? Neither?
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Aug 30, 2014 20:57
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GymnastyThom posted:Stupid newbie question, what do you add to a damage roll? For example, a level one monk with proficiency in simple weapons hits with a quarterstaff. The quarterstaff is 1d6. Do I add my Dex modifier? And my proficiency bonus? Neither? Dex, no proficiency - it's in the Martial Arts feature on page 78. Also, only related in that it's also a Monk thing, I want to point out how awful the Way of the Four Elements (caster) build is: You get 5 abilities, total, across 20 levels. You choose them from a list of 17, of which 13 are Wizard spells and only 4 are actual unique-to-the-Monk abilities. At level 17, (when full casters get True Polymorph, Wish, Meteor Swarm, Shapechange etc and even the Open Hand Monk gets its save-or-die-or-take-10d10-damage feature Quivering Palm) you get access to the top tier of spells available to you: Cone of Cold, Wall of Fire and Wall of Stone. They cost 5 or 6 ki points each, meaning you can cast them a maximum of 3-4 times per rest. e: Also, just generally, Monks - the masters of unarmed combat - suck at grappling, because it specifically requires Str checks. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 21:00
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anti_strunt posted:No-one ever gives Birthright its due... A setting isn't just given its due. It has to earn it. That's something you Birthright fans don't seem to get. 
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Aug 30, 2014 21:01
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Jack the Lad posted:Dex, no proficiency - it's in the Martial Arts feature on page 78. Thanks very much Jack!
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Aug 30, 2014 21:02
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PeterWeller posted:A setting isn't just given its due. It has to earn it. That's something you Birthright fans don't seem to get.  (I love Birthright too and just started a campaign in it)
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Aug 30, 2014 21:47
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PeterWeller posted:A setting isn't just given its due. It has to earn it. That's something you Birthright fans don't seem to get. Glad to see the setup wasn't wasted! But Birthright would honestly always be my go-to setting for ye olde Late-Medieval DnD campaigning, even if no realm management is involved. The world has a wonderful internal cohesion, and just the right level of magic and "realism" to fit (or retrofit, being pretty old) most DnD elements without going either dungeonpunk camp or almanac drab.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:12
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PeterWeller posted:Only wizards had to be afraid of revealing themselves. Psionicists, clerics and druids had nothing to fear. Sure, it was run by rear end in a top hat epic level wizards, but those were NPC munchkins. Sauron is allowed to be OP. Also, those OP epic level wizards were not going to suffer some little upstarts casting magic missile. The populations HATED wizards because of those rear end in a top hat epic level wizards, so any wizard that was weak enough to be vulnerable was going to get torn to pieces. Psionicsts were the ones most in the clear, but as long as the players were staying away from mind reading, pisonics were less stupid than spells in general. Also, everyone had psionics, even the fighter. There was also the order and the sorcerer kings, so if a psionicst really started drawing attention to himself with powerful displays, well... Clerics were mostly OK, but 2E was mostly them being healbots, and not divine wizards with heal spells and plate like 3E and later. They were mostly shoehorned in and quietly ignored because the game needed healbots and divine heal bots were it. Sorcerer Kings and druids didn't see eye to eye. Templars would not leave you alone because you were a druid, and druids had no power structure in the city states. While the common people wouldn't stone a druid to death for casting a level 1 spell, the druid had better hope the common people can tell the difference between a druid spell and a wizard spell. Casters were king, and everyone knew it. However, for the party, that really put a damper on anyone wanting to play a caster because using their powers casually made them paint a bulls-eye on their back. It was a setting of ruthless police states run my beings infinitely more powerful than the players. Being a badass wizard who trivializes encounters against groups of foes on a regular basis was decidedly unhealthy. Being a more balanced Gandalf type figure that used softer more supportive magic in the background, and only committed to displays of power when the story really really needed one, was a path to a much longer life. It didn't fix casters mechanically, it fixed them by green lighting DM persecution of casters. Which is why 4E darksun was a little flat. DM persecution of casters built right into the setting was kind of dickish if they are not OP enough to merely be brought down to earth by outright targeted persecution of their class.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:13
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GymnastyThom posted:Stupid newbie question, what do you add to a damage roll? For example, a level one monk with proficiency in simple weapons hits with a quarterstaff. The quarterstaff is 1d6. Do I add my Dex modifier? And my proficiency bonus? Neither? Remember that the quarterstaff does 1d8 damage if you wield it with two hands. And you really have no good reason not to.
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Aug 30, 2014 23:25
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 The same math wringer as everything else.
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Aug 30, 2014 23:32
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In before "so no wringer."
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Aug 31, 2014 00:10
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EscortMission posted:In before "so no wringer." (But not against any classes which can make an actual difference in play.)
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Aug 31, 2014 01:25
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Cyclomatic posted:It didn't fix casters mechanically, it fixed them by green lighting DM persecution of casters. Which is why 4E darksun was a little flat. DM persecution of casters built right into the setting was kind of dickish if they are not OP enough to merely be brought down to earth by outright targeted persecution of their class. By your own admission, only one spellcasting class was actually persecuted for casting spells. And there was the whole somatic concealment NWP to get around that. Also, there was this very well detailed and established secret society that helped those casters. And we're really only talking about what happens in city states. E: Sure it was worse than FR, but DS was worse than FR for everyone. Warriors couldn't really get good armor, and didn't get the great weapons they would in other settings, for example. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 01:42
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Alhulak: The alhulak is primarily a rope with a four-bladed grappling hook on one end. Cahulaks: A pair of four-bladed heads tied to either end of a 12-foot length of rope, this weapon can be employed in melee or as a thrown weapon. Carrikal: The carikkal is made by lashing a length of mekillot bone to the jawbone of a jozhal. The sharp ridges of teeth run down half the length of the bone handle, while the hinges of the jaw are sharpened to a keen edge. Datchi club: A 4- to 5-foot-long head made of either dried insect hive or dried roots is attached to a 3-foot-long wood or bone handle. Teeth, claws, or (rarely) metal razors are embedded into the head, which is then swung with lightning-quick strokes. Lotulis: Crescent blades with barbed spikes near the points and mounted at either end of a long shaft make this a particularly nasty melee weapon. Obviously we have different definitions of great weapon.
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Aug 31, 2014 02:06
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jigokuman posted:Alhulak: The alhulak is primarily a rope with a four-bladed grappling hook on one end. Haha. Fair point. I was referring to the rarity of magic weapons.
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Aug 31, 2014 03:31
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neonchameleon posted:As for who Spoony is, he's the sort of guy who creates a video about why he hates The Amazing Spider Man 2 that's actually longer than the film itself (no I haven't watched the video). I am quite sure people in this and on other threads wrote extremely long posts with reasons they hate D&D NEXT which combined are possibly actually larger and longer than the book 
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Aug 31, 2014 05:25
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:I am quite sure people in this and on other threads wrote extremely long posts with reasons they hate D&D NEXT which combined are possibly actually larger and longer than the book Yeah but that is the effort of multiple people without any sort of collective direction. This is literally a one man solo effort to complain about a movie for longer than its actual run time.
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Aug 31, 2014 05:57
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Strength of Many posted:Yeah but that is the effort of multiple people without any sort of collective direction. To be fair, the second half is a lot more focused on legitimate criticisms of the game. Spoony has a tendency to go off on tangents and not get to the point until well into his rants.
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Aug 31, 2014 06:33
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Is there a totally different thread for people who like the game and want to talk about it in a less critical way?
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Aug 31, 2014 06:36
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Sarx posted:Is there a totally different thread for people who like the game and want to talk about it in a less critical way? This is pretty much that thread, the other one in the games version of LF is non-stop scorn.
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Aug 31, 2014 07:22
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:This is pretty much that thread, the other one in the games version of LF is non-stop scorn. Okay because scanning the last few pages it seemed like this was a haven for people who are really mad about the math not being meticulously balanced between classes.
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Aug 31, 2014 07:30
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Sarx posted:Okay because scanning the last few pages it seemed like this was a haven for people who are really mad about the math not being meticulously balanced between classes. Even if you had a point, (and i've considered vacating this thread before), a whole pile of people are itt being critical of 5e, and that was good enough reason for half the internet to bash 4e for years, so why shouldn't the same apply here? TheLovablePlutonis posted:I am quite sure people in this and on other threads wrote extremely long posts with reasons they hate D&D NEXT which combined are possibly actually larger and longer than the book A Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 08:02
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Sarx posted:Okay because scanning the last few pages it seemed like this was a haven for people who are really mad about the math not being meticulously balanced between classes. Why not tell us what you like about the game, and the stuff you're doing with it?
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Aug 31, 2014 08:29
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AlphaDog posted:Why not tell us what you like about the game, and the stuff you're doing with it? I like that it is very easy to teach people. Much easier than probably every previous version. I like that combat flows pretty smoothly, is easy to understand, and ends before it becomes a tedious slog. I like that while the balance isn't perfect, its better than most previous versions of D&D and every class at least feels pretty useful in practice. I like the Backgrounds and streamlined skill system. I think the books are beautiful. I think Hoard of the Dragon Queen is a pretty good starting adventure. There are many more things. To be honest, this is probably my favorite version of D&D to date. Its certainly not my favorite RPG, but its always easier to get a group to play D&D than anything else, and there's a sort of visceral fun that I'll always have playing the game that got me into the hobby. As for what I am doing with it, the table for the real-world Gods as D&D deities in the index got me thinking about running a pseudo-earth type game. We will be starting the game in a frigid viking-inspired region using the Norse pantheon as the Gods. We have a Fighter, a Cleric of Freya, a Bard, a Sorcerer, and a Ranger in the party. Characters have been made and we did a short intro combat so everyone could get a handle on the system and so far its been a ton of fun. I liked 4E too, though I eventually got tired of the really long combats, how the power system tended to pull players out of their characters, and how sharp the "roll initative" divide was. This has been a breath of fresh air in those regards.
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Aug 31, 2014 08:53
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I think most people here, me included, would agree with you that all those things are true and good. It's just such a freaking shame that half the classes are helpless and lovely for legacy reasons. Maybe when 5e gets a Tome of Battle in a few years...?
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Aug 31, 2014 09:01
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Jack the Lad posted:
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Aug 31, 2014 09:15
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Sarx posted:I like that it is very easy to teach people. Much easier than probably every previous version. Apart from the class balance one, which I completely disagree with, that's a pretty good list of the good stuff, yeah. The books are beautiful, too. I wish backgrounds/skills had got more attention though.
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Aug 31, 2014 09:17
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I agree on Hoard of the Dragon Queen, which is a really well-thought-out adventure. There are a few places where I think it really requires good DM judgment to shine, but the pacing is excellent, the story is - by module standards - quite good, there're lots of opportunities for creative problem-solving, etc. That said, coming from 4E, my group finds the combat rather dull. I mean, it's nice to get through five combats in 90 minutes. But many of those combats aren't really interesting at all. The reality is that I could just as easily say "Ok guys, you turn the corner and you're face to face with 5 goblins! Pay 25hp across the entire party, and tell me how you defeat them!" as use the actual combat system, because the combat system is adding almost no value to my players' RP. Even my most 'creative' players get tired of constantly looking for bonfires to push enemies into/ledges to push them off of/chandeliers to drop on their heads/etc. They keep trying because the alternative is "Okay, I attack. Again. Alright, Bob, you're up. What? Nah, no reason to move, I'll just stay put. Your turn."
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Aug 31, 2014 10:10
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Slashrat posted:'Best of' better mean that Maztica is coming back
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Aug 31, 2014 14:34
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Sarx posted:I like that it is very easy to teach people. Much easier than probably every previous version. My experience with 5e was the opposite of these. Chargen alone took around 90 minutes because most of the table either hadn't played a ttrpg in a while, or hadn't played one ever. The second statement only held up while we were playing in lowish levels.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:36
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Sarx posted:I like that it is very easy to teach people. Much easier than probably every previous version. This 100%. I've introduced 6 people who have never played a TTRPG to D&D over the past few weeks, and was able to just hand them a pregen, run down the character sheet and what things mean, and give them an overview of combat all within about thirty minutes. Everyone got a pretty good grasp of it and picked it up quick without having read even the basic rules. Now I've been running a few of them through character creation for our campaign, and it's taken about 2 hours or so for the two of them. This is still without really having gone through the book ahead of time. I currently play in a 3.5 game and that would never be able to happen. I don't have a lot of experience with 4th so I can't speak to the ease of introducing that.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:41
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I had to explain to a 16 year old whose only experience with Dungeons and Dragons was 4e that, as a martial class, mostly he'd be getting higher numbers as he leveled up as opposed to more cool stuff to do. He didn't seem too thrilled.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:44
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Generic Octopus posted:My experience with 5e was the opposite of these. Chargen alone took around 90 minutes because most of the table either hadn't played a ttrpg in a while, or hadn't played one ever. The second statement only held up while we were playing in lowish levels. Yeah, it seems like everyone who is happy with the class balance and with fighters in particular has only played low levels. I'd be happy to be wrong about that, if anybody wants to say otherwise. Have you played a fighter in a high-level game and found it to be useful? Or a beast master ranger?
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Aug 31, 2014 14:53
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I hope you explained to them how these changes were introduced to keep the feel of D&D alive.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:55
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siggy2021 posted:This 100%. I've introduced 6 people who have never played a TTRPG to D&D over the past few weeks, and was able to just hand them a pregen, run down the character sheet and what things mean, and give them an overview of combat all within about thirty minutes. Everyone got a pretty good grasp of it and picked it up quick without having read even the basic rules. Now I've been running a few of them through character creation for our campaign, and it's taken about 2 hours or so for the two of them. This is still without really having gone through the book ahead of time. My experience with introducing new players is pretty much identical to yours. But with 4th edition.
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Aug 31, 2014 15:16
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Jimbozig posted:Have you played a fighter in a high-level game and found it to be useful? We used the fighter to clean up what the cleric's and wizard's spells didn't deal with, or to kill things that would've been a "waste" of a spell. Realistically I would probably rather have another cleric in the party instead. All that said, at low levels (I keep saying low levels, idk maybe 1-5ish?) she was pretty good at killing monsters & not dying. It's not so much that she got worse at these when we fast-tracked our way to higher levels, it's that the casters got a lot better. According to her, she felt largely unnecessary after a while. To be honest I think if I were for some reason to play again, the Monk looks like an alright martial. Looks like it does cool and interesting things, can stunlock enemies, and has a save-or-die if you take a certain path. Never saw it in play so I can't really say how rad it is, but on paper it's more interesting and useful than the fighter. Maybe take a 2 level dip into fighter for action surge.
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Aug 31, 2014 15:30
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:This is pretty much that thread, the other one in the games version of LF is non-stop scorn. And the Lord knows how I tried to derail that poo poo away from xbone loving sucks-thread like stuff. Oh he knows.
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Aug 31, 2014 16:03
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