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Fetches are absolutely going to see play in Standard just for being an untapped dual land that doesn't keep costing you life every time you use it. Remember that this Standard just past, we've had two-colour decks running guildgates despite also having access to shocklands, temples, painlands and Mana Confluence in their colours. I'm less sure about strong three-colour decks though. I suspect things will trend more towards two-colour decks with maybe a small additional splash for something seriously powerful, rather than going all-in on three colours - simply because fetchlands force you to run a pretty high number of fetchable lands, which as far as we know means basics. Jabor fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 06:26
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"Yeah, we gotta go in uh.. 3 minutes. They're turning the lights off on us at 1:30 I hate new jersey"
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Sep 1, 2014 06:29
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Jabor posted:Fetches are absolutely going to see play in Standard just for being an untapped dual land that doesn't keep costing you life every time you use it. Remember that this Standard just past, we've had two-colour decks running guildgates despite also having access to shocklands, temples, painlands and Mana Confluence in their colours. Remember, in addition to the wedge tapland cycle and the fetch cycle, there are 10 nonbasic lands in Khans. We have no idea what those are. My initial guess is painlands with a single basic land type, though something like Murmuring Bosk is also possible.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:31
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Remember, in addition to the wedge tapland cycle and the fetch cycle, there are 10 nonbasic lands in Khans. We have no idea what those are. My initial guess is painlands with a single basic land type, though something like Murmuring Bosk is also possible. given that there's already a cycle at uncommon and rare id think it's way more likely it's a common cycle and then either another common cycle or various random lands
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Sep 1, 2014 06:33
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Nah dudes you've got it all wrong, fetchlands suck, this mana base of nothing but temples and enemy painlands (and maybe mana confluence) is much better
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Sep 1, 2014 06:35
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Fetchlands are the only known allied duals in standard post-rotation. They'll see plenty of play.DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Remember, in addition to the wedge tapland cycle and the fetch cycle, there are 10 nonbasic lands in Khans. We have no idea what those are. My initial guess is painlands with a single basic land type, though something like Murmuring Bosk is also possible. Why would they print typed painlands three months after printing untyped painlands?
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Sep 1, 2014 06:36
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I'd be astounded if the fetches weren't ubiquitously played. However, it'd be sweet if that happened, because it means slow decks full of taplands are the best, as the lord God intended.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:38
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:given that there's already a cycle at uncommon and rare id think it's way more likely it's a common cycle and then either another common cycle or various random lands There has got to be a common cycle. They already said they have a "lot of mana fixing" and they want wedges in limited. That can't happen without common dual lands. We'll have either a 10-land common cycle, or a 5-land common cycle and the other 5 is whatever. I'm guessing we'll see common taplands that also have the basic types so it can work with fetchlands. Basically shocklands without the shock or the ability to come in untapped. Northjayhawk fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 06:38
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Fetchlands are the only known allied duals in standard post-rotation. They'll see plenty of play. Get Hype for Khans. Soften the perceived blow of the change in block format?
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Sep 1, 2014 06:38
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Fetchlands are the only known allied duals in standard post-rotation. They'll see plenty of play. I'm thinking a set of typed "ETB Tapped" lands might be an option at common or uncommon. Basically Shocks without the option of coming in untapped.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:39
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really if i had to do some stupid speculation wedge panoramas seem like the easiest shoo-in ever
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Sep 1, 2014 06:39
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Remember, in addition to the wedge tapland cycle and the fetch cycle, there are 10 nonbasic lands in Khans. We have no idea what those are. My initial guess is painlands with a single basic land type, though something like Murmuring Bosk is also possible. Tundra, Taiga, Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, Bayou, Badlands, Savannah, Plateau, Scrubland, Tropical Island 
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Sep 1, 2014 06:40
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:really if i had to do some stupid speculation wedge panoramas seem like the easiest shoo-in ever
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Sep 1, 2014 06:43
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Angry Grimace posted:Fetches will be like 10 bucks in Standard. Please be true.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:44
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It was true during zendikar and it'll be true now. People even passed fetches, some foil, just to win a draft!
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Sep 1, 2014 06:52
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First Bass posted:Tundra, Taiga, Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, Bayou, Badlands, Savannah, Plateau, Scrubland, Tropical Island No no no. Going against the reserved list would make too much money in the height of mtg's all time popularity. In all seriousness how terrible would a tri colored land that counts as all three lands but comes into play tapped be?
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Sep 1, 2014 06:52
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:really if i had to do some stupid speculation wedge panoramas seem like the easiest shoo-in ever It makes sense that they'd reuse design space, but the comments on Satyr Wayfinder's design suggest that they wouldn't want an effect like that to play a big role in the limited format. Maybe we'll get Vivid cycle reprints?
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Sep 1, 2014 06:56
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Remember guys, Legacy Burn is nothing but fetchlands and Mountains. Why? Because fetchlands in mono-colored decks with a low mana curve are loving awesome. Guys aggro is going to be so good in the new rotation I'm so excited for it goddamn.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:56
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Sickening posted:In all seriousness how terrible would a tri colored land that counts as all three lands but comes into play tapped be? Would see play in Modern (probably as a 1-of that you fetch when you don't need it untapped), probably not in Legacy.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:56
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Jesus Christ... So is Izzet artifacts gonna be a thing now? An Ensoul'd Ugin's Nexus will make your opponent think super hard whether or not to straight up kill it, unless they run enchantment hate. Furthermore, you also have access to Shrapnel Blast.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:02
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Monsieur Mango posted:Jesus Christ... So is Izzet artifacts gonna be a thing now? An Ensoul'd Ugin's Nexus will make your opponent think super hard whether or not to straight up kill it, unless they run enchantment hate. Furthermore, you also have access to Shrapnel Blast. Unless your opponent is representing a decisive win with their extra turn, or you have options to chump block it or wall it, I don't see how killing it won't always be the runaway option. It's not even that bad. They take an extra turn but they spent two cards on a 7 mana 5/5, which is probably worse than any other constructed deck in the format is doing with a given turn.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:13
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Rules question: if I +1 the new sarkhan and make him a dragon, then +1 Ajani MOH and give Sarkhan three +1/+1 counters, what happens to the counters at the end of the turn? Do they fall off or remain there and provide the bonus the next time I make Sarkhan a dragon again? Probably the same thing that happens to Gideon if you were to do that. I think he keeps the counters, like a Mutavault does when it becomes just a land again.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:25
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qbert posted:Remember guys, Legacy Burn is nothing but fetchlands and Mountains. Why? Because fetchlands in mono-colored decks with a low mana curve are loving awesome. actually they're in burn due to searing blaze and lavamancer. it is not worth paying 1 life just to thin your deck
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Sep 1, 2014 07:27
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Now that we know that delve is a thing, and standard "dredge" is kind of a middling deck, the reprint of tormod's crypt makes way more sense.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:36
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Quick question regarding EDH. I was wanting to do a black blue commander, but would that stop me from being able to use the Breaking part of Breaking//Entering? Would I just pretend the Entering part doesn't exist, or would I need a UBR commander?
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Sep 1, 2014 07:46
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Fureil posted:Quick question regarding EDH. I was wanting to do a black blue commander, but would that stop me from being able to use the Breaking part of Breaking//Entering? Would I just pretend the Entering part doesn't exist, or would I need a UBR commander? By the standard rules, you wouldn't be able to do it. If you play with a regular group, though, it's always worth asking if they'd be willing to allow it.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:47
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JerryLee posted:Unless your opponent is representing a decisive win with their extra turn, or you have options to chump block it or wall it, I don't see how killing it won't always be the runaway option. It's not even that bad. They take an extra turn but they spent two cards on a 7 mana 5/5, which is probably worse than any other constructed deck in the format is doing with a given turn. Taking an extra turn isn't always a huge deal the way its made out to be.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:56
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JerryLee posted:By the standard rules, you wouldn't be able to do it. If you play with a regular group, though, it's always worth asking if they'd be willing to allow it. Arg, thanks for the info. Now to come up with a UBR commander that has a Dimir feel to them for just in case.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:59
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qbert posted:Remember guys, Legacy Burn is nothing but fetchlands and Mountains. Why? Because fetchlands in mono-colored decks with a low mana curve are loving awesome. 
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Sep 1, 2014 08:03
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mcmagic posted:Also: This. There is a reason it's 16 bucks now. I'm already seeing people buying out the Clash Pack at 22 bucks.
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Sep 1, 2014 08:03
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Fureil posted:Arg, thanks for the info. Now to come up with a UBR commander that has a Dimir feel to them for just in case. Marchesa is probably the most Dimir-ish UBR commander at the moment, though she's pretty aggressive. She's very good at keeping hold of stolen creatures, since if they die with a +1/+1 counter on them while she's out, they come back to you. Creature theft, Undying and Persist, Graft, and boardwipes are all great options. She's definitely the next commander I'll be building for. Otherwise, just go Lazav!
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Sep 1, 2014 08:26
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Lazav is actually the commander I'm building with right now. I was just trying to come up with an alternative in case the people I play with won't let me use Breaking due to Entering's Red cost.
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Sep 1, 2014 08:30
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Fureil posted:Arg, thanks for the info. Now to come up with a UBR commander that has a Dimir feel to them for just in case. Jeleva, from the Mind Seize deck is pretty Dimir. Mill their deck and use their spells against them. Although she doesn't work well with Lazav since she exiles.
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Sep 1, 2014 08:32
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Yes, that is also a reason why they are good.
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Sep 1, 2014 08:32
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Angry Grimace posted:Taking an extra turn isn't always a huge deal the way its made out to be. But taking an extra turn is literally a Time Walk.
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Sep 1, 2014 08:43
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:Yes, that is also a reason why they are good. Someone ran the math on the "Deck thinning" thing and it turns out it's mostly bullshit. It takes about 16-20 turns before you see any benefit from the thinning, and a game involving a monored deck will end long before that point. Lavamancer isn't "a" reason they're good in monocolor aggro, it's the only reason they're good in monocolor aggro. Without Lavamancer-type cards that want cards in your grave, there is zero reason to run fetches in monocolored. If a Mono Black Delve deck springs up, I can definitely see that running them, for example. Zonekeeper fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 08:51
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Fureil posted:Lazav is actually the commander I'm building with right now. I was just trying to come up with an alternative in case the people I play with won't let me use Breaking due to Entering's Red cost. Oh, I know! And I figured you were playing Lazav based on using Breaking. If you can't, it's not a huge disaster, for Lazav it's only a slightly worse Glimpse the Unthinkable. Marchesa is the only Grixis commander I can think of that could take advantage of milling, though not nearly as well as several Dimir generals can. Edit: of course, you can run a Grixis commander without ever intending to cast it, but that makes taking advantage of Lazav all the trickier. Coucho Marx fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 08:55
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neetengie posted:Ob Nixilis confirmed the fetches back in M15. We didn't listen! I don't think I was actually being serious when I said this, but... Olothreutes posted:Ob Nixilis printed in M15 as a fetchland punisher
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Sep 1, 2014 09:17
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Zonekeeper posted:Someone ran the math on the "Deck thinning" thing and it turns out it's mostly bullshit. It takes about 16-20 turns before you see any benefit from the thinning, and a game involving a monored deck will end long before that point. Lavamancer isn't "a" reason they're good in monocolor aggro, it's the only reason they're good in monocolor aggro. "Expected number of turns to see benefit" is kind of a dumb metric to use. If I put a Wood Elemental in a deck of 59 good cards, I won't draw Wood Elemental "on average" until my 20th turn, and games seldom last that long. But that doesn't mean running Wood Elemental is fine, because in practice you will in fact draw it well before turn 20. The proper metric isn't "expected number of turns to see benefit" but "probability of seeing benefit". Assuming a 40/20 spell/land distribution, a turn 1 fetch-->basic improves the spell density of the rest of your deck from 39/59 to 39/58, an increase of ~1.14 percentage points. So in over 1/90 of games, cracking a fetch instead of playing a basic will let you draw a spell on your very next turn when you would otherwise have drawn land. That's not much, but it's not zero either; and with many fetches in your deck, multiple subsequent draws each game, and multiple games in a match, in a large tournament it will probably make a difference sooner or later. The only card competing for the same slot as the fetches is the basics, so the question isn't whether they're good in the sense we usually think of "good" cards but whether they're just advantageous enough to be slightly better than a basic mountain. In standard you don't need to worry about Stifle, so the only question is: Will the 1 life payment hurt you more than the marginal improvement to consistency will help you? Perhaps, perhaps not - but I think for a low-curve monocolor aggro deck the life probably matters less. Of course, they're almost certainly not worth paying $10 apiece to run, but if you have them already anyhow... Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 09:25
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They're also gonna be in standard with scry and courser and probably some more enablers. It's a minor advantage and not the entire point of the cards
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