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My phone did a thing, and is acting like I haven't posted this message every time I open the SA forum app. Apologies for double posting.
CountingWizard fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 04:33
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CountingWizard posted:I grew up with 2e and later, and it's the main reason I never felt compelled to play with other people. I mean who wants to spend 6 hours role playing boring story filler crap. Looking back at the differences now, skills took away a lot of player agency and turned it into progress quest.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:07
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TheSpookyDanger posted:I haven't heard of that game before, would you mind talking about it more? This ruleset is abstract - it doesn't concern itself with minutiae like goggleworm gallbladders, iron spearheads, or halfling tobacco, but instead abstracts these specifics into 3 general traits: Wealth, Social, and Military. This thread at an unpopular forum will give you a much better idea of what AER is. 
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Aug 23, 2014 15:54
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Question from someone who's only briefly played AD&D, how often do your games ever use the Complete Handbooks? Specifically the Fighter one. I'm curious to see if combat maneuvers and the like were an actual staple of the Fighter and their ilk or if its a fever dream.
Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 02:42
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Our 2E group used them regularly but always took that stuff on a kind of case-by-case, take-it-or-leave it basis. Basically if a player was like "yo I wanna do this thing in the book" then they were more than welcome to bring it into the game, but there were so many situational rules and poo poo in AD&D that no one DM could even reliably be expected to remember all the options offered by various books especially because you'd get stuff like Combat & Tactics and Skills & Powers coming out later that would contradict it and end up with people who (for example) made their characters with two different conceptions of what "weapon mastery" does. The splats for 2E, even the Complete books which were ostensibly a series, also weren't created equal in terms of quality or mechanics. Comparing the kits from Complete Thief and Complete Bard is absurd; the majority of the former either do nothing or give you a +2 reaction roll bonus or penalty, while the latter are basically fully-blown subclasses with unique abilities that still give me ideas for Bard characters and NPCs in modern iterations of the game.
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Aug 24, 2014 21:33
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Strength of Many posted:Question from someone who's only briefly played AD&D, how often do your games ever use the Complete Handbooks? Specifically the Fighter one. I'm curious to see if combat maneuvers and the like were an actual staple of the Fighter and their ilk or if its a fever dream. Zombies' Downfall posted:The splats for 2E, even the Complete books which were ostensibly a series, also weren't created equal in terms of quality or mechanics. Comparing the kits from Complete Thief and Complete Bard is absurd; the majority of the former either do nothing or give you a +2 reaction roll bonus or penalty, while the latter are basically fully-blown subclasses with unique abilities that still give me ideas for Bard characters and NPCs in modern iterations of the game.
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Aug 24, 2014 22:28
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FRINGE posted:You copied you own post twice, and neither time are you referring to the right edition. When discussing opinions on 2e, it's hard to distinguish people's opinions on the core ruleset from what they think of the campaign settings, the changes to the existing settings, the many optional players kits and rules supplements, and how they felt about a TSR that was no longer associated with Gygax.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:20
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Halloween Jack posted:When discussing opinions on 2e, it's hard to distinguish people's opinions on the core ruleset from what they think of the campaign settings, the changes to the existing settings, the many optional players kits and rules supplements, and how they felt about a TSR that was no longer associated with Gygax. For that matter, the edition lasted for so long that there were and probably still are edition warriors specifically holding a grudge over the changes to 2e itself over its lifespan. (See: Player's Option, Dark Sun Revised and Expanded, weird anti-Planescape purists who rejected the setting's core conceits outright because the planes ought to be too dangerous for low-level characters, etc.)
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Aug 25, 2014 05:25
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Halloween Jack posted:I think there was some kind of forums glitch, because I also posted a follow-up reply which disappeared. To repeat it in brief: The ridiculous skill/number bloat was another mess that came in with 3e. "How much better is a +51 than a +46???"
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Aug 25, 2014 06:57
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FRINGE posted:I meant specifically the comment about the skills "progress quest". Unless you were using a set of rules that I can remember, that really wasnt a thing that existed in 2e. The non-weapon proficiencies were mostly pass/fail rolls based on stats with a modifier. Five better. It's five better.
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Aug 25, 2014 15:24
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FRINGE posted:The ridiculous skill/number bloat was another mess that came in with 3e. "How much better is a +51 than a +46???"
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Aug 25, 2014 16:38
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Not sure this is exactly the right thread, but can anybody tell me about all the early imitations of DnD? Stuff like Tunnels and Trolls and Rolemaster? There's a huge gap in my knowledge of fantasy role playing--I'm just curious what these other games did that DnD didn't. What prompted this is an ad in White Dwarf 18 for Tunnels and Trolls that says "Are you roll-playing instead of role-playing? Tunnels and Trolls is the answer!". White Dwarf 18 has a cover date of 1980, and T & T is advertising its 5th edition already, so it's gotten me curious.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:38
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/designers-and-dragons I could say, but I couldn't it half as well as Shannon does. Back it for a buck and get immediate access to the volume on the 1970s!
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Aug 25, 2014 23:56
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A Strange Aeon posted:Not sure this is exactly the right thread, but can anybody tell me about all the early imitations of DnD? Stuff like Tunnels and Trolls and Rolemaster? There's a huge gap in my knowledge of fantasy role playing--I'm just curious what these other games did that DnD didn't. Go here and pledge: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/designers-and-dragons The 70's volume has all that stuff from the dawn of the hobby. And the 80's book is already out if you're at $15 or more. e: 
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Aug 25, 2014 23:58
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heh, I get to somebody finally. Both the books that are out are absolutely fascinating. Shannon has talked to pretty much everybody it seems.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:59
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:heh, I get to
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Aug 26, 2014 01:28
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dwarf74 posted:It is amazing, and I'm glad he tries to fairly present the facts. Well, poo poo, I guess I'm backing this! Thanks for the tip--never would have heard of this project otherwise! e. Holy cow, even looking at the table of contents, I'm blown away. This looks really, really awesome. A Strange Aeon fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 02:24
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This is amazing and I immediately backed it. Did I really read that right? For $15 I get all the PDFs? That's what I did. That seems like a fantastic deal.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:52
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:This is amazing and I immediately backed it.
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Aug 26, 2014 03:23
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If you're interested in a more in-depth look at the development of D&D and the earliest days of the hobby, Jon Peterson's Playing at the World looks specifically at that period. Part of one chapter covers some of the earliest, most D&D-derivative RPGs like Tunnels & Trolls and the relationship between TSR and the burgeoning D&D fandom of the time.
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Aug 26, 2014 04:18
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The '90s has been released for the $15+ backers!
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Aug 29, 2014 03:17
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So I'm looking at running my first sandbox-style game with a hex map and locations/dungeons/features scattered around for the PCs to get way over their heads in. Here's my problem: where do you get hex paper to draw out maps on? I'm familiar with graph paper, but not hex. Does Amazon sell it? Is it used for anything besides elfgaming / where else could you find some?
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Sep 1, 2014 14:10
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Arivia posted:So I'm looking at running my first sandbox-style game with a hex map and locations/dungeons/features scattered around for the PCs to get way over their heads in. Here's my problem: where do you get hex paper to draw out maps on? I'm familiar with graph paper, but not hex. Does Amazon sell it? Is it used for anything besides elfgaming / where else could you find some? I used to buy hex paper at a place that... poo poo, I don't even know how to describe it. It was like an office supplies kind of place but just for stationery, so no chairs or filing cabinets or printer ink for sale, just any kind of pen, pencil, paper, ruler, notebook, etc you could want. Classroom equipment warehouse? Map store? Are there even any map stores around any more? Or you could google "a4 hex grid" and print it off in light grey or something. You don't really need much hex paper. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...w=1920&bih=1088 e: Better yet, draw your map and then print a light grey hex grid over it. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 14:36
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Whenever I need graph paper I mostly just make it in GIMP, but for hex paper I usually use this website.
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Sep 1, 2014 18:23
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Arivia posted:So I'm looking at running my first sandbox-style game with a hex map and locations/dungeons/features scattered around for the PCs to get way over their heads in. Here's my problem: where do you get hex paper to draw out maps on? I'm familiar with graph paper, but not hex. Does Amazon sell it? Is it used for anything besides elfgaming / where else could you find some? What kind of FR nerd are you where you don't have half a dozen of those clear plastic overlays lying around? 
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Sep 1, 2014 19:03
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PeterWeller posted:What kind of FR nerd are you where you don't have half a dozen of those clear plastic overlays lying around? Haha yeah I totally thought about those a little while after posting. It's not perfect since I want to add terrain features to fit the hexes, not just use a prepublished map, but it will work just fine.
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Sep 2, 2014 11:52
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Are there any retroclones that give Wizards/Mages a basic, "at-will" magical attack, similar to 4E, or is that already too different? Or, if I was going to hack up a mechanic myself, how might that work?
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Sep 3, 2014 08:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are there any retroclones that give Wizards/Mages a basic, "at-will" magical attack, similar to 4E, or is that already too different?
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Sep 3, 2014 11:07
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If you're talking about AD&D or 2e, there's really no reason not to give the M-U some kind of at-will type attack that gives a small amount of damage out to a short kind of range*. The thing that might gently caress stuff up is if you write it as "fire" or "acid" or something and then it's going to have uses other than being an attack. Stick with "bolts of magic force". They'll break anything you could break with a thrown rock. Because it's something that they can do lots of, calling for an attack roll would be appropriate. You might want to grant some kind of bonus, because M-U attack numbers are poo poo. Maybe give them ranged to-hit bonus as if their INT was DEX for just this one thing. *These numbers come directly off the top of my head, but 1d6 out to 30 feet probably won't ruin everything. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 14:11
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Payndz posted:I've been working on and off on a game derived from my own B/X retroclone (TAAC) that gives Wizards a few really minor at-wills, one of which is Magic Blast - 1d3 damage(d6/2) and requiring a ranged attack roll to hit. I wanted Wizards to have some way to attack that wasn't fists, a dagger or a stick (and therefore required them to get into melee, which at low levels is suicide), but at the same time keeping its damage and secondary effects limited. (I think having Fire Bolt as a cantrip in 5e - 1d10 fire damage with 120' range at-will - is way overpowered, and is just going to be spammed. Same with Ray Of Frost, which is only 1d8 damage but adds a no-save suck effect to compensate.) Magic Users can already throw daggers, why give them free spells? In either case they would still most likely be ranging into melee and possibly hit friendly targets. Even fighting-men are limited by ammo, why should magic users have unlimited ammo?
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Sep 3, 2014 16:45
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Personally, I still reckon letting the wizard use a crossbow also works - when your one spell per day is gone, you can still contribute to the fight, and it does make sense. But then, I'm also in favour of allowing any character to learn how to use any weapon in play, so take that for what it's worth.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:54
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CountingWizard posted:Magic Users can already throw daggers, why give them free spells? In either case they would still most likely be ranging into melee and possibly hit friendly targets. Even fighting-men are limited by ammo, why should magic users have unlimited ammo?
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Sep 3, 2014 17:11
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I don't see it in the list, but I'd totally recommend adding the African Fantasy retroclone Spears of the Dawn. It's "close enough to D&D" in that it uses a lot of the familiar tropes (vancian magic, 6 ability scores, etc), but the author really took his time to iron out the system and removed a lot of unnecessary sacred cows which could hold things back. He also extensively researched African legends and folklore beyond the stereotypical "jungle savages" tropes so common in media. I have a fairly detailed write-up of it here. On that note, I should get back to writing that review. I notice that I tend to have a bad habit of reviewing products and then leaving them in the dust.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:11
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That too - Spears of the Dawn is a very interesting alternative. It's like a cross between the best bits of old school D&D combined with a few bits of old school Traveller. On the topic of keeping track of ammo, I think it depends on the kind of campaign you're running. If you're running a heroic campaign with the intention of telling an awesome story, then keeping track of ammo is probably going to detract from that. If you're running a campaign about a group of guys who found this really deep cave network that they could conceivably spend a week or longer exploring, then I think that all resources should be tracked.
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Sep 4, 2014 11:08
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Payndz posted:I've been working on and off on a game derived from my own B/X retroclone (TAAC) that gives Wizards a few really minor at-wills, one of which is Magic Blast - 1d3 damage(d6/2) and requiring a ranged attack roll to hit. I wanted Wizards to have some way to attack that wasn't fists, a dagger or a stick (and therefore required them to get into melee, which at low levels is suicide), but at the same time keeping its damage and secondary effects limited. (I think having Fire Bolt as a cantrip in 5e - 1d10 fire damage with 120' range at-will - is way overpowered, and is just going to be spammed. Same with Ray Of Frost, which is only 1d8 damage but adds a no-save suck effect to compensate.) AlphaDog posted:If you're talking about AD&D or 2e, there's really no reason not to give the M-U some kind of at-will type attack that gives a small amount of damage out to a short kind of range*. The thing that might gently caress stuff up is if you write it as "fire" or "acid" or something and then it's going to have uses other than being an attack. Stick with "bolts of magic force". They'll break anything you could break with a thrown rock. Thanks for the input! I know the old way of dealing with this was just giving the Mage a sling or a crossbow, but I just wanted something that would allow a spellslinger to sling a spell as his worst-case attack option and for him to be able to use his INT stat instead of DEX. I think an attack roll + INT modifier and 1d3, 1d4 damage tops could be something I could play with.
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Sep 4, 2014 11:21
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I wanted to ask what other games are like Adventurer Conqueror Kings. In particular the idea of domains, cities and hexes being fully specified by rules. I just want at some point play an hexcrawl and I would like for most things within in, form that tower to that dungeon to have rules if the characters want to take it and run it.
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Sep 6, 2014 13:30
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dwarf74 posted:Yep, and only $10 more to upgrade to a printed volume with the bookmarks, which is where I am. I'd like the 70's in paper since it's got the stuff I always wanted to know more about while growing up. It's also got GDW who started in my hometown. And TSR of course! Humbug Scoolbus posted:The '90s has been released for the $15+ backers!
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Sep 10, 2014 00:57
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CarrKnight posted:I wanted to ask what other games are like Adventurer Conqueror Kings. In particular the idea of domains, cities and hexes being fully specified by rules. I've not read it but I gather An Echo, Resounding might assist.
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Sep 10, 2014 03:09
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CarrKnight posted:I wanted to ask what other games are like Adventurer Conqueror Kings. In particular the idea of domains, cities and hexes being fully specified by rules. Well, ACKS is the big dog when it comes to domain management in an OSR ruleset. Sine Nomine's An Echo, Resounding is the other big one although it's not a stand-alone game - you add it to Labyrinth Lord (or another d20-based ruleset). If you play Pathfinder, the Kingmaker campaign contains tools for domain management; I believe that they are also available as a stand-alone supp. If you want to know more about ACKS and/or AER, I referred TheSpookyDanger to a very useful link at the top of this page.
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Sep 12, 2014 13:44
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VacuumJockey posted:If you play Pathfinder, the Kingmaker campaign contains tools for domain management; I believe that they are also available as a stand-alone supp. Yeah, they're in Ultimate Campaign with the town-building stuff.
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Sep 12, 2014 14:31
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