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BizarroAzrael posted:Hang on, I thought the card was in the yard during resolution. Specifically, I thought if you fire a burn spell at a Tarmagoyf, that card was increasing Goyfs size at the point of resolving the damage. Technically speaking the damage from a bolt is applied when the spell is still on the stack. It's just that the damage doesn't actually "mean" anything, so to speak, until the next time SBEs are checked--at which point the spell is in the graveyard. So if by "resolving the damage" you mean saying 'yo this is gonna have 3 damage on it now' then that happens before the spell is in the graveyard. If you mean asking 'yo, this has 3 damage on it now, does it die?' then that happens after the spell is in the graveyard. edit: A thing that actually happened at, I think it was Worlds in 2001 or 2002 or something: A player tried to play Sacred Ground to defend his manlands from enemy burn spells. Why this doesn't work is left as an exercise to the reader.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:47
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BizarroAzrael posted:Hang on, I thought the card was in the yard during resolution. Specifically, I thought if you fire a burn spell at a Tarmagoyf, that card was increasing Goyfs size at the point of resolving the damage. No, the card is in the yard when you check SBA's to see if Tarmogoyf died or not, the damage is marked on the creature, but by the time the game asks "Is this enough damage to kill this creature?" the answer is no. "Damage doesn't kill creatures, SBA's kill creatures" is a thing a lot of judges like to say.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:49
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I think it's way too early to judge a lot of these cards that seem to have a cmc that's too high. This set looks fairly slow and some of these cards that at first glance seem unplayable in constructed will definitely be more playable if this standard is a little slower. But I know I'm prone to judging that way too.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:51
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BizarroAzrael posted:Decay etc specify they can't be countered by spells and abilities, invalid targets still make it fizzle. Yes, I know. That's why I said "So by that logic" to show that that logic is incorrect.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:51
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Pyronic posted:Morph flipping Spelljack? sick. There's no reason to buy boxes of sealed product of a current set for anything other than the normal discount. There's no reason whatsoever for retailers to mark up boxes of Khans, particularly right now. The value of the set we know about is entirely loaded in fetches, which are virtually guaranteed to drop significantly as the set gets opened. I mean, there's nothing pre-ordering (and pre-ordering is usually inflated hype-pricing) for more than 20 bucks that isn't Polluted Delta. Cernunnos posted:I thought the Lithomancer was the Lady Kor Planeswalker that bound Ob-Nixilis? I always liked the explanation people used to give that the Lithomancer is Stoneforge Mystic. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 00:53
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Angry Grimace posted:Basically, Sarkhan Vol is the T-800 and Ugin is John Connor. Sarkhan is Kirk, Khans are Khan, and Ugin is the humpback from the 80s.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:57
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uggy posted:I think it's way too early to judge a lot of these cards that seem to have a cmc that's too high. This set looks fairly slow and some of these cards that at first glance seem unplayable in constructed will definitely be more playable if this standard is a little slower. But I know I'm prone to judging that way too. Theros was already pretty slow. That's a bit worrying because its just going to be overrun by whatever we can get of aggro at this rate.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:58
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Attorney at Funk posted:Guns don't kill people. State-based actions kill people. Totally stealing this.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:05
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Attorney at Funk posted:Guns don't kill people. State-based actions kill people. There's an awful joke in there about Ferguson, Missouri that I am not smart enough to make
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Sep 4, 2014 01:10
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On a topic not a million miles away, if I throw a bunch of little guys under an attacker, then flash in Dictate of Erebos, can I do this after damage allocation but before damage resolves? So they don't allocate to a single blocker.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:10
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JerryLee posted:edit: A thing that actually happened at, I think it was Worlds in 2001 or 2002 or something: A player tried to play Sacred Ground to defend his manlands from enemy burn spells. Why this doesn't work is left as an exercise to the reader. Wizards themselves also made a similar mistake when they printed Purity. Abilities don't deal damage, their sources do.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:12
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BizarroAzrael posted:On a topic not a million miles away, if I throw a bunch of little guys under an attacker, then flash in Dictate of Erebos, can I do this after damage allocation but before damage resolves? So they don't allocate to a single blocker. Nah, there's no window to cast anything in the damage step. There's only one after declare attackers and after declare blockers.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:13
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BizarroAzrael posted:On a topic not a million miles away, if I throw a bunch of little guys under an attacker, then flash in Dictate of Erebos, can I do this after damage allocation but before damage resolves? So they don't allocate to a single blocker. They assign and resolve damage at the same time, but there are restrictions on how they assign damage. Once they've assigned lethal damage to the first blocker, they have to move onto the next one. They can't just keep assigning damage to the first guy. e: blockers are ordered in the declare blockers step, so they really can't change who they're going to kill by assigning damage differently anyways. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 01:16
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Gumdrop Larry posted:Nah, there's no window to cast anything in the damage step. There's only one after declare attackers and after declare blockers. You can do things in the Combat Damage step. There is a round of priority. You just can't do anything before the mandatory actions of that step, which include damage being both assigned and dealt. Sleep of Bronze fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 01:17
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Sleep of Bronze posted:You can do things in the Combat Damage step. There is a round of priority. You just can't do anything before the mandatory actions of that step, which include damage being both assigned and dealt. Makes sense to me. I don't think I've ever had an instance of anyone wanting to do something explicitly while still in combat but post damage assignment as opposed to just the second main phase, so I just decided in my mind that there wasn't a round of priority.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:22
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Yeah you have to drop the Dictate after you assign Blockers if you want it to work.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:25
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They've got another opportunity even after that: end of combat has its own round of priority too. I remember seeing games where it made sense to use either of those, but I can't recall for the life of me what the specific cases were. 
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Sep 4, 2014 01:26
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Gumdrop Larry posted:Makes sense to me. I don't think I've ever had an instance of anyone wanting to do something explicitly while still in combat but post damage assignment as opposed to just the second main phase, so I just decided in my mind that there wasn't a round of priority. I've seen quite a few instances of post-damage Celestial Flares to make your opponent sacrifice an indestructible guy after his non-indestructible guys were killed by damage.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:27
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Won't their guys be dead from Combat Damage before that point?
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Sep 4, 2014 01:27
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Cernunnos posted:Won't their guys be dead from Combat Damage before that point? That's the point. Creatures are only considered attacking or blocking during combat, so you have to cast the flare during combat, but sometimes you want to do it after damage so they won't sacrifice something that's just going to die in combat anyway.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:30
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Dr. Stab posted:They assign and resolve damage at the same time, but there are restrictions on how they assign damage. Once they've assigned lethal damage to the first blocker, they have to move onto the next one. They can't just keep assigning damage to the first guy. Nope. You can assign all 4 of Ghor-Clan Rampager's power to the 1 toughness Spirit Token that is blocking him without assigning a single point to the High Priest of Penance that is also blocking him. If you wanted to try and trample over them to hit their controller for 2, you'd have to hit the High Priest of Penance for lethal and risk losing your Nissa.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:32
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Sleep of Bronze posted:They've got another opportunity even after that: end of combat has its own round of priority too. I remember seeing games where it made sense to use either of those, but I can't recall for the life of me what the specific cases were.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:34
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Edit: ...I may be wrong here!
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Sep 4, 2014 01:37
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Dr. Stab posted:They assign and resolve damage at the same time, but there are restrictions on how they assign damage. Once they've assigned lethal damage to the first blocker, they have to move onto the next one. They can't just keep assigning damage to the first guy. That's wrong. They can assign all the damage to the first creature in the assignment order, and they certainly will if Dictate of Erebos is cast in the Declare Blockers step.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:38
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Alaan posted:Edit: ...I may be wrong here! Am I mis-reading this? No snarkyness intended, Magic rules are sometimes really difficult to interpret. Magic Comp Rules posted:510.1c A blocked creature assigns its combat damage to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are
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Sep 4, 2014 01:39
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EDIT: Beaten.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:40
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End of Life Guy posted:Am I mis-reading this? No snarkyness intended, Magic rules are sometimes really difficult to interpret.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:43
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End of Life Guy posted:You can assign all 4 of Ghor-Clan Rampager's power to the 1 toughness Spirit Token that is blocking him without assigning a single point to the High Priest of Penance that is also blocking him. If you wanted to try and trample over them to hit their controller for 2, you'd have to hit the High Priest of Penance for lethal and risk losing your Nissa. That's correct.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:47
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Angry Grimace posted:There's no reason to buy boxes of sealed product of a current set for anything other than the normal discount. There's no reason whatsoever for retailers to mark up boxes of Khans, particularly right now. The value of the set we know about is entirely loaded in fetches, which are virtually guaranteed to drop significantly as the set gets opened. I mean, there's nothing pre-ordering (and pre-ordering is usually inflated hype-pricing) for more than 20 bucks that isn't Polluted Delta. Stupid finance question: do you think price of Planeswalkers (and other choice Mythics/Rares) might be tempered by the demand for the Onslaught Fetches? Sarkhan is pretty drat hype as a card, but going by CFB prices he's the same cost as the Blue Fetches, of which there will be far more opened. It feels like the rest of the set's cost is being subsidized by demand for these particular lands, more than a lack of hype.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:53
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I was thinking there was an M10 change to blocking rules, but the damage assigning was clearly not it. I did check of the comp rules after I posted and found I was wrong, and edited it out.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:53
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Alaan posted:I was thinking there was an M10 change to blocking rules, but the damage assigning was clearly not it. I did check of the comp rules after I posted and found I was wrong, and edited it out. There was an M10 change to blocking rules but it doesn't apply to actual damage assignment. The change was that the Attacking Player must order any multiple-blockers and then assign damage to those creatures in that order. So they can't put a creature second in order and then assign damage to it first but they can still dump all the attackers damage on the first blocker.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:01
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Niton posted:Stupid finance question: do you think price of Planeswalkers (and other choice Mythics/Rares) might be tempered by the demand for the Onslaught Fetches? Sarkhan is pretty drat hype as a card, but going by CFB prices he's the same cost as the Blue Fetches, of which there will be far more opened. It feels like the rest of the set's cost is being subsidized by demand for these particular lands, more than a lack of hype. New planeswalkers usually preorder for ~$20. Retailers know that there will be a high immediate demand for all fetches, particularly blue ones, so they're already marked up. Generally preorder prices tend to not be representive of the settled prices, but a lot of people want them immediately for that first FNM. Other than fetches and walkers, this set kinda seems to not have any cards that are striking me as "money" cards. Lots of bulk junk so far, but we have no idea what the new meta will look like either.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:11
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Since we're talking about rulings, I had a situation today that never happened but I was curious if it would go the way I think it would. I swing with a creature and he uses one creature to block. I use Unmake to remove his blocker from play. Will the combat still go through and be dealt to his face? How is this the same/different than using a blocker as a sacrifice and preventing damage (ignoring trample).
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Sep 4, 2014 02:19
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We have seen less than 1/4th the set so any speculation is a little premature.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:20
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Oraculum Animi posted:Since we're talking about rulings, I had a situation today that never happened but I was curious if it would go the way I think it would. Once a creature becomes blocked, it stays blocked for the duration of combat. If there aren't any blockers left for whatever reason by the time it comes to deal damage, then it doesn't do any damage unless it has trample.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:27
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Niton posted:Stupid finance question: do you think price of Planeswalkers (and other choice Mythics/Rares) might be tempered by the demand for the Onslaught Fetches? Sarkhan is pretty drat hype as a card, but going by CFB prices he's the same cost as the Blue Fetches, of which there will be far more opened. It feels like the rest of the set's cost is being subsidized by demand for these particular lands, more than a lack of hype. Is it any surprise that they're being overvalued? It's well known that Fetches are the backbone of the eternal formats and that they will be in demand basically forever. No matter how low their prices get during Khans' printing, they will start going up once they're out of print, making them one of the safer "investments" you can make in MTG. I have no doubt that this set will sell gangbusters, and since it's not a limited printing set Wizards will print however many boxes they need to keep up with demand. That said, anyone after fetches for eternal format use would be a fool to buy them at pre-order prices as there's no way they'll maintain those prices once wizards starts pumping out packs to meet demand. Reprint Shocks ($5-$10) are currently 1/3-1/4 what the originals were worth ($20-$30) prior to the announcement of RTR block, so expect a similar price crash for the fetches.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:30
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Fetches should hold a little better since they will be played in literally every constructed format.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:32
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Also shocklands were drafted not only in their large set environments but also in DGM/GTC/RTR, with fetches leaving the draft rotation in the spring there will be fewer opened. I still anticipate a drop though. New fetches will probably end up around $15 depending on standard popularity.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:35
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MTGO players, is there some secret strategy to daily tournaments that involves letting your clock run down as low as it can go? I keep fighting opponents who randomly take 3-5 minutes when they have priority to do nothing and it's super aggravating.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:42
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sarmhan posted:Also shocklands were drafted not only in their large set environments but also in DGM/GTC/RTR, with fetches leaving the draft rotation in the spring there will be fewer opened. I still anticipate a drop though. New fetches will probably end up around $15 depending on standard popularity. I don't think a set that will be opened as much as Kahns will be can support 75 dollars worth of value in 5 non mythics.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:44
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