Majorian posted:

Please don't wish this. He will almost certainly be replaced by someone much, much, MUCH worse.

Preoptopus posted:

Why?

Fabulous Knight posted:

Itar-Tass: FSB arrested an Estonian security official in Russia, with pistol, money & spy gear. Estonia says he was abducted from Estonia.

Who is telling the truth? Who is feeding us lies?

Anyway there is no way this timing is a coincidence, not after Obama being in Tallinn just yesterday.

Majorian posted:

To be fair, that is the grammatically correct way to say it in Russian. But yeah, I try to call Ukraine what most Ukrainians want their country to be called.

Finlander posted:

Well, now that Putin's kidnapping people from across the border, in loving NATO COUNTRIES, no less, what's gonna be next?

OddObserver posted:

Huh? "The Ukraine" can't be the grammatically correct way in Russian considering the language does not have any analogue of the word "the" (or "a"). I think you are conflating this with a similar discussion on what the appropriate Russian preposition to use with Ukraine is, but that has no direct reflection in English.

Lucy Heartfilia posted:

Sadly true.


Responsibility for the deaths of many Russians, Ukrainians, EU citizens and even Malaysians is not enough?

Majorian posted:

No, but when using it with a preposition, it's "на Украине," ie: "on the Ukraine," which is to say "on the edge/frontier." It's not "in Ukraine."

DrPop posted:

Interesting. I was not aware of the history behind using the "na" preposition vs. "v." Guess I read too many pro-Ukrainian articles eh?

Preoptopus posted:

Ok lets hang every ruler whos actions/inactions created unexpected spread damage. Whats the civilian death toll in Iraq and Afganistan, all over Africa, even Mexico, again?

Lucy Heartfilia posted:

Let's see... Ah, yes. gently caress RUSSIA.

Lucy Heartfilia posted:

1) gently caress America, too.
2) There is nothing unexpected about all the deaths Putin is responsible for.

Finlander posted:

Especially when the dudes you're using are literally terrorists that torture and slaughter civilians by the thousands.

Preoptopus posted:

Just extreme I think. I doubt Putin is directly responsible for anything. Military operations can easily be purchased sadly. People are giving him way too much credit.

DrPop posted:

Interesting. I was not aware of the history behind using the "na" preposition vs. "v." Guess I read too many pro-Ukrainian articles eh?

V. Illych L. posted:

...see, this is not well documented as far as I know. Obviously there are atrocities going on, but that's part of war - is there anything (beyond instigating an unnecessary war to begin with) that points to the separatists++ being particularly vicious? I mean, by the standards of intercine warfare etc

pigdog posted:

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

I obviously know nothing about Eastern Europe and Russia because just yesterday I said the Russians couldn't possibly be that stupid to do anything to provoke the Baltic states but clearly I am full of poo poo. Regardless of who abducted the Estonian officer, he's still an officer and represents the government of Estonia.

Preoptopus posted:

So your a well funded rebel with good ties to a commanding officer or even a low ranking general and offer up cash money to "borrow" some troops and equipment. Obviously hes going to take it and have a "practice" drill along the border that oops slips across it. It happened all the time in Chechnya where officers or commanders would literally sell their troops into slave labor or make undertable deals with Charlie. I guarantee its whats going on.

Zudgemud posted:

Well, if spies or undercover agents are to be held to the same "government representative" standard as for example cops or elected politicians is debatable, spies or undercover agents are totally valid targets for secret services either due to perceived national interest or suspected criminal activity. If he was abducted from Estonian soil it would of course be more of a violation, but if it was on Russian soil I would not blame Russia for taking interest in a potential spy from a neighboring NATO country in the current situation. Maybe he is something of an undercover agent with no intent of spying on Russia, or maybe he is a spy that might know something sensitive, in any case they deemed him important enough to warrant an abduction.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

As for calling Ukraine the Ukraine: It's not the Germany or the Poland, and it sounds just as stupid when you put that article before Ukraine. I knew I forgot to put something in the new OP yesterday.

Preoptopus posted:

So your a well funded rebel with good ties to a commanding officer or even a low ranking general and offer up cash money to "borrow" some troops and equipment. Obviously hes going to take it and have a "practice" drill along the border that oops slips across it. It happened all the time in Chechnya where officers or commanders would literally sell their troops into slave labor or make undertable deals with Charlie. I guarantee its whats going on.

Zudgemud posted:

Well, if spies or undercover agents are to be held to the same "government representative" standard as for example cops or elected politicians is debatable, spies or undercover agents are totally valid targets for secret services either due to perceived national interest or suspected criminal activity. If he was abducted from Estonian soil it would of course be more of a violation, but if it was on Russian soil I would not blame Russia for taking interest in a potential spy from a neighboring NATO country in the current situation. Maybe he is something of an undercover agent with no intent of spying on Russia, or maybe he is a spy that might know something sensitive, in any case they deemed him important enough to warrant an abduction.

El Scotch posted:

If I put 'the' in front of every country, then can I do it?

Orange Devil posted:

The Netherlands

Orange Devil posted:

The Netherlands



I wish Ukrainians would prefer "the Ukraine", it sounds better.

Forgall posted:

Where did it say he's a spy/undercover agent?

Nonsense posted:

Stop pretending war is a video game.

Gaj posted:

In my Ukrainian circles its part of an old Czarist-House of Gotha alliance. We Russians will refer to conquered peoples in X manner, just like the British speak about their conquered peoples. like "the Welsh". The paranoia is centered around the belief that "The" Ukraine reduces the nation state to that of a territory, or smaller geographical area within a larger one. Think of how Americans call it "the South" and not "the former lands of the Confederacy and Cree peoples".

pigdog posted:

Just wondering, in your world did Crimea voluntarily join the waiting arms of Russia, too, without Putin being responsible for anything? Like changing legislation for that very purpose, things like that.

Majorian posted:

The English TASS piece says he was working undercover.

Forgall posted:

Same one that claims he was captured on russian soil with james bond spy kit?

Nintendo Kid posted:

Well for one thing, a whole rear end load of Americans still refer to it as the Confederacy.

TildeATH posted:

No they don't. That's really stupid.

pigdog posted:

Just wondering, in your world did Crimea voluntarily join the waiting arms of Russia, too, without Putin being responsible for anything? Like changing legislation for that very purpose, things like that.

TildeATH posted:

No they don't. That's really stupid.

TeodorMorozov posted:

No one likes us, we don't care

Warcabbit posted:

Hey. Russians are great people. Big hearts, black moods, great people. It's just the government that deserves to be stuffed into a meat grinder feetfirst.

Warcabbit posted:

Hey. Russians are great people. Big hearts, black moods, great people. It's just the government that deserves to be stuffed into a meat grinder feetfirst.