Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

«‹›3153 »

Mak0rz: Aug 2, 2008; 😎🐗🚬

Thought you might enjoy this, fps thread:

(source)

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:02

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 21:19

see you tomorrow: Jun 27, 2009

Wasn't there a gun in russian overkill that just spewed a shitload of shotgun shells when you fired it?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:30

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

lurker1981 posted:

In all honesty, Freedoom isn't completely terrible. I would like to be able to play the real Doom 1+2 maps with Freedoom, though. Freedoom has (almost) everything except good maps (and I would love to know why they don't want to have any vanilla maps, which would make it compatible with all source ports).

Oh, I missed this, you might be able to do this if you load Doom2.wad as the iwad, and then freedoom as the pwad. It could also just overwrite the maps, but you could play around with it until it works, since they have the wad bits on Github, and wad compilers are easy to find.

Karasu Tengu fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Sep 6, 2014

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:34

mod sassinator: Dec 13, 2006; I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

straight jerkers posted:

Wasn't there a gun in russian overkill that just spewed a shitload of shotgun shells when you fired it?

yeah it's the alt fire of one of the insane shotguns if i remember correctly

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:38

lurker1981: May 15, 2014; by XyloJW

Elliotw2 posted:

Oh, I missed this, you might be able to do this if you load Doom2.wad as the iwad, and then freedoom as the pwad. It could also just overwrite the maps, but you could play around with it until it works.

Is there a way to just rip out the map info from doom.wad and doom2.wad and use it with freedoom as a pwad?

As many bad things as I've been saying about freedoom, I'm willing to acknowledge that at some point it may eventually become better than the originals. Or it could just flounder about and die horribly. Linux wasn't all that great for the first 10-15 years...(or at least not if you wanted to use it as a desktop OS)

lurker1981 fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Sep 6, 2014

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:40

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

You can do that with a wad editor too. For freedoom as the pwad, delete all the levels, or for doom 2 as pwad delete everything but the maps.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:42

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

I just can't handle the monster designs in FreeDoom.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:45

see you tomorrow: Jun 27, 2009

sure enough

# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:48

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

The original Doom renderer is really not meant for high resolutions

# ? Sep 6, 2014 06:49

Mak0rz: Aug 2, 2008; 😎🐗🚬

Linguica posted:

The original Doom renderer is really not meant for high resolutions

Wait. What's happening here?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 07:28

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Mak0rz posted:

Wait. What's happening here?

Doom source ports like PrBoom that slavishly follow the original renderer have an issue that makes lines that almost intersect the player's position act crazier and crazier at higher resolutions, because the Doom engine uses integer math instead of floating point math and it starts to break down at higher resolutions because the numbers get too big.

e: and it just gets worse and worse and worse

Linguica fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Sep 6, 2014

# ? Sep 6, 2014 07:38

Cream-of-Plenty: Apr 21, 2010; "The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

Mak0rz posted:

Thought you might enjoy this, fps thread:

(source)

straight jerkers posted:

Wasn't there a gun in russian overkill that just spewed a shitload of shotgun shells when you fired it?

This is still the best shotgun reload animation in an FPS ever:

# ? Sep 6, 2014 08:28

John Carstairs: Nov 18, 2007; Space Detective

Nintendo Kid posted:

I just can't handle the monster designs in FreeDoom.

I actually kind of like the weird worm creature* that replaces the Pinky, but that's about it.

*If they're still using that one. It's been a while since I tried FreeDoom.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 08:47

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

This is still the best shotgun reload animation in an FPS ever:

Is that Eternal Damnation? It certainly looks like Postal 2.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 08:53

mod sassinator: Dec 13, 2006; I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

straight jerkers posted:

sure enough

lol, it crashes my computer sometimes when i fire that and some of the other insane weapons

# ? Sep 6, 2014 08:54

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

catlord posted:

Is that Eternal Damnation? It certainly looks like Postal 2.

Yeah, it's a beta weapon from Postal 2 that got reimplemented into Eternal Damnation... and eventually patched back into Postal 2 as an easter egg. Circle of liiiife~

# ? Sep 6, 2014 08:57

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

Mak0rz posted:

Thought you might enjoy this, fps thread:

(source)

This is a cool rear end way to reload a shotgun.

Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Sep 6, 2014

# ? Sep 6, 2014 09:00

Superschaf: May 20, 2010

Linguica posted:

Doom source ports like PrBoom that slavishly follow the original renderer have an issue that makes lines that almost intersect the player's position act crazier and crazier at higher resolutions, because the Doom engine uses integer math instead of floating point math and it starts to break down at higher resolutions because the numbers get too big.

e: and it just gets worse and worse and worse

Was that gif created with PrBoom?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 09:01

TerminusEst13: Mar 1, 2013

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

This is still the best shotgun reload animation in an FPS ever:

Sgt. Shivers is a cool guy who makes really cool animations.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 09:05

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Mak0rz posted:

Wait. What's happening here?

Detailed explanations and other funny gifs in this Doomworld thread. Short and sweet is that a line is drawn between two vertices, but if one of these vertices is behind the player, Doom has no idea where it is exactly and tries to approximate its position with bad code. Bad code made even worse in Boom:

code:

//
// R_ScaleFromGlobalAngle
// Returns the texture mapping scale
//  for the current line (horizontal span)
//  at the given angle.
// rw_distance must be calculated first.
//
// killough 5/2/98: reformatted, cleaned up

fixed_t R_ScaleFromGlobalAngle(angle_t visangle)
{
  int     anglea = ANG90 + (visangle-viewangle);
  int     angleb = ANG90 + (visangle-rw_normalangle);
  int     den = FixedMul(rw_distance, finesine[anglea>>ANGLETOFINESHIFT]);
  fixed_t num = FixedMul(projection, finesine[angleb>>ANGLETOFINESHIFT]);
  return den > num>>16 ? (num = FixedDiv(num, den)) > 64*FRACUNIT ?
    64*FRACUNIT : num < 256 ? 256 : num : 64*FRACUNIT;
}

Any OpenGL or Direct3D port will not have the issue; and it's also fixed in some software renderers, like ZDoom and Eternity.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 10:12

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

straight jerkers posted:

sure enough

The one that makes them rain from the sky while the 1812 Overture plays is better. I burst into uncontrollable laughter when I first saw that.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 18:21

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

Opinions on BTSX 2? I've played through the first 5 maps so far. The quality is...inconsistent. They're all absolutely beautiful, but the gameplay gets kind of tedious. Map 4 especially.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 18:26

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Cat Mattress posted:

Short and sweet is that a line is drawn between two vertices, but if one of these vertices is behind the player, Doom has no idea where it is exactly

That's actually not what is happening. Without getting too much into it (lol), Doom doesn't have anything resembling a near clipping plane and will happily attempt to draw a wall infinitesimally close to the point singularity that is the camera. Doom always draws lines according to screen space, and when you're standing on top of a line, that basically means the engine is trying to draw the super janky line:

�

^��^
|��|
|��start drawing here
all the way to here

It might be better if you imagine that line as having a middle texture like a grate or whatever, and that the engine is trying to draw the texture all the way across most of the player's screen. You can imagine that as you get towards the left edge of the screen, the scale of the line is OBSCENELY BIG, because it is like three nano-angstroms away from the player viewpoint. And the Doom engine uses normal integers that can't get nearly big enough, so it hits the scaling cap on the left side. And since the engine just interpolates the scale between the left edge and the right edge of the line when drawing it, that makes the line appear to be more sloped than it really is.

Here's a quick illustration:

And since PrBoom (inexplicably) calculates the scaling factor with the screen resolution as a component, that means that the higher the resolution, the higher all the numbers are, and the more quickly and severely you hit the integer cap.

Linguica fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 6, 2014

# ? Sep 6, 2014 19:03

EvilMike: Dec 6, 2004

my bony fealty posted:

Opinions on BTSX 2? I've played through the first 5 maps so far. The quality is...inconsistent. They're all absolutely beautiful, but the gameplay gets kind of tedious. Map 4 especially.

It's not as good as episode 1. But it has some very good maps and it's overall a good megawad. It just dissapoints compared to the previous episode.

I didn't like map04 either. I finally figured out how to get both keys quickly... and then wandered into a completely different, unconnected area of the map, and wound up beating it without using either of the keys. wtf?? Individual areas of this map are well designed, but the way they come together is very unfocused and confusing.

The start of map07 is godawful, since it's a crate maze, with tons of lost souls, and there's too much "platforming" bullshit. There are two green armours which require awkward crate jumps. The super shotgun is also way too late in this map for the number of cacodemons and revenants it has, I found 2 of them but both are behind yellow key doors.

map15 is too big, without enough interesting encounters. 90% of it is very easy, with the monsters not posing much of a threat at all. There are a couple of good fights here and there, but the rest of it is dull exploration. This is one of those cases of a couple of good ideas being weighed down by a whole lot of wasted space.

That's as far as I've gotten so far. I really liked map01, 12, 14 a couple others. It's just that I'd recommend skipping a few bad ones.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 19:36

Bouchacha: Feb 7, 2006

Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to play Doom3 which mods should I install?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 20:35

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

Bouchacha posted:

Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to play Doom3 which mods should I install?

Wulfen Texture mod makes the textures look better instead of being blurry pieces of poo poo, while Sikkmod generally makes the game prettier. The Last Man Standing mod enables co-op, but I'm not sure if there's anyone playing anymore.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 20:40

Geight: Aug 7, 2010; Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!

Is there actually an audio mod that replaces the Doom 3 sound effects with the stuff Trent Reznor had made, or is that just a hopeful rumor? The weak-sounding weapons probably bother me more than the dark rooms and lack of large-scale action in Doom 3.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 20:43

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Geight posted:

Is there actually an audio mod that replaces the Doom 3 sound effects with the stuff Trent Reznor had made, or is that just a hopeful rumor? The weak-sounding weapons probably bother me more than the dark rooms and lack of large-scale action in Doom 3.

There is, it uses the sound files from the leaked E3 alpha demo. It's not very hard to find.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 20:54

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

Bouchacha posted:

Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to play Doom3 which mods should I install?

Sikkmod for both Doom 3 and the expansion, the creator has both and they're really solid. You honestly don't need anything else if you're looking for a more modern original experience.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 21:11

Pathos: Sep 8, 2000

Is it possible to use Sikkmod/etc with the BFG edition? I bought it stupidly thinking they would build Oculus support for it before the whole id shitshow went down.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 21:43

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

Pathos posted:

Is it possible to use Sikkmod/etc with the BFG edition? I bought it stupidly thinking they would build Oculus support for it before the whole id shitshow went down.

Nope.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 22:04

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

Sikkmod is one of a few that you can't hack into working with BFG. The texture replacements and gun mods do work with it though, if you don't mind going through some extra steps.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 22:45

Al Cu Ad Solte: Nov 30, 2005; Searching for
a righteous cause

Elliotw2 posted:

Sikkmod is one of a few that you can't hack into working with BFG. The texture replacements and gun mods do work with it though, if you don't mind going through some extra steps.

Can I replace sound effects too?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 22:58

Segmentation Fault: Jun 7, 2012

Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Can I replace sound effects too?

I dunno, can you?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 23:00

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

Sikkmod doesn't work because it actually does chances special for that version of the engine, sounds are like textures and gun stats so they can be changed without issues. Google for Doom 3 BFG mod launcher.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 23:06

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

Pathos posted:

Is it possible to use Sikkmod/etc with the BFG edition? I bought it stupidly thinking they would build Oculus support for it before the whole id shitshow went down.

Don't play the BFG Edition, it's a complete piece of poo poo.

# ? Sep 7, 2014 00:09

Al Cu Ad Solte: Nov 30, 2005; Searching for
a righteous cause

Segmentation Fault posted:

I dunno, can you?

yousonuva

# ? Sep 7, 2014 00:32

Copper Vein: Mar 14, 2007; ...and we liked it that way.

Yodzilla posted:

Don't play the BFG Edition, it's a complete piece of poo poo.

Elaborate please. I've gone through Doom3+Sikkmod a coupla times.

# ? Sep 7, 2014 00:46

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

You just can't use any of the mods with it and the versions of Doom that it was packaged with were neutered.

# ? Sep 7, 2014 01:09

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 21:19

fragglet: Sep 14, 2005; I've got a christmas tree inside my head

lurker1981 posted:

As many bad things as I've been saying about freedoom, I'm willing to acknowledge that at some point it may eventually become better than the originals. Or it could just flounder about and die horribly. Linux wasn't all that great for the first 10-15 years...(or at least not if you wanted to use it as a desktop OS)

It is definitely getting better. Someone recently submitted a new menu font for example which replaces the horrible wobbly menu that the project has used since forever. FreeDM in particular has also had a lot of work recently.

The big problem is that if you have prominent graphics that are bad quality - like the zombie sprites - they tend to stick out and colour peoples' opinions. People don't notice all the good stuff, they notice when something's bad and sticks out in an obvious way. And getting sets of good sprites is really hard - it's a lot of work to draw out 50-60 or so little images for all those different angles.

# ? Sep 7, 2014 01:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

«‹›3153 »