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I've never run W:tF, but they way I'd play it is if the pack goes into Death Rage then that's it, scene's over. Cut to the aftermath when everyone snaps out of it, then they have to deal with the consequences. It's faithful to a horror-movie sensibility, I think, and it avoids the problem of the table just sitting down and watching the ST play the game by himself. Of course, it kind of takes out what I suppose is the canon thematic element of Death Rage, that you're a murderbeast that is still fully conscious and watching what his body is doing. Still, I think that's best left as a fictional conceit rather than a game that's fun to play with your friends.
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Sep 4, 2014 15:40
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pospysyl posted:I've never run W:tF, but they way I'd play it is if the pack goes into Death Rage then that's it, scene's over. Cut to the aftermath when everyone snaps out of it, then they have to deal with the consequences. It's faithful to a horror-movie sensibility, I think, and it avoids the problem of the table just sitting down and watching the ST play the game by himself. Of course, it kind of takes out what I suppose is the canon thematic element of Death Rage, that you're a murderbeast that is still fully conscious and watching what his body is doing. Still, I think that's best left as a fictional conceit rather than a game that's fun to play with your friends. Werewolf: The Hangover 
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Sep 4, 2014 15:45
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I actually always assumed that a werewolf in Death Rage doesn't know what they're doing. They 'die' and go on total autopilot, therefore allowing for scenes in which you wake up naked in the woods, streaked in blood you don't recognize, and have no idea how you got there. It's probably more likely that a frenzied vampire (who's just failed to stop themselves from doing something they really badly wanted to do, rather than accidentally uncorked an endless river of directionless fury) is thinking "oh man, I can't believe I'm doing this, oh man, I think I'm gonna - yep, there I go, that was probably bad" as they drink a victim to death or break the neck of someone who cut ahead of them in line.
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Sep 4, 2014 16:18
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So you're basically playing as Oz from Buffy.
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Sep 4, 2014 22:54
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Sep 5, 2014 05:07
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Seriously though, a game where an entire pack goes into Death Rage one night and in the morning they have to go around piecing together what exactly they did so they can find a lost packmemeber would be legit.
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Sep 5, 2014 05:32
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Ahhahahah this is perfect!
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Sep 5, 2014 05:42
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Seriously though, a game where an entire pack goes into Death Rage one night and in the morning they have to go around piecing together what exactly they did so they can find a lost packmemeber would be legit. So... The Hangover, except they ate the tiger?
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Sep 5, 2014 05:55
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Androc posted:So... The Hangover, except they ate the tiger? Luminous Obscurity posted:Werewolf: The Hangover Also: It turns out Mike Tyson was the tiger! CHANGING BREEDS! 
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Sep 5, 2014 06:01
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My next character is gonna have a NO GOOD ANARCH PUNK t-shirt
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Sep 5, 2014 06:01
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The Anarch looks like Randal from Clerks and the childer looks like Courtney Love. It's thoroughly 90's, I approve.
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Sep 5, 2014 06:41
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Seriously though, a game where an entire pack goes into Death Rage one night and in the morning they have to go around piecing together what exactly they did so they can find a lost packmemeber would be legit. Yeah, this is a legit option that's in the book.
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Sep 5, 2014 10:27
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pospysyl posted:I've never run W:tF, but they way I'd play it is if the pack goes into Death Rage then that's it, scene's over. Cut to the aftermath when everyone snaps out of it, then they have to deal with the consequences. It's faithful to a horror-movie sensibility, I think, and it avoids the problem of the table just sitting down and watching the ST play the game by himself. Of course, it kind of takes out what I suppose is the canon thematic element of Death Rage, that you're a murderbeast that is still fully conscious and watching what his body is doing. Still, I think that's best left as a fictional conceit rather than a game that's fun to play with your friends. Yeah this seems like the best way to handle it in actual play. It's also ripe for future hooks while they slowly attempt to piece together what happened or deal with some Hunters rolling into town a month later to put down the big bad wolf spotted by half a dozen terrified witnesses or any number of other things, really.
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Sep 5, 2014 10:52
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Forcing your players to on purpose play their character in a dangerous and destructive way is, IMO, the best way to do Death Rage. I'd just tell my payers before the game that if they fall into Death Rage they should seriously do their best to cause mayhem.
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Sep 5, 2014 18:21
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Baby Broomer posted:Forcing your players to on purpose play their character in a dangerous and destructive way is, IMO, the best way to do Death Rage. I'd just tell my payers before the game that if they fall into Death Rage they should seriously do their best to cause mayhem. Forcibly dictating to players how they should play their characters is really, really lovely and makes a lot of old players reflexively bristle at the memory of awful GMs. If you want players/characters to do stupid poo poo, you either NPC them (which has its own problems as discussed) or you incentivize acting like a moron. Dangle shiny, shiny beats/willpower/whatever in front of them, and even players reluctant to do dumb things for the sake of the story will jump on it. GMC already has part of that philosophy showing in the fact that you can willingly turn normal failure into dramatic failure for beats, which gets you experience, makes the story more interesting, and actually means you see dramatic failure results more than once a chronicle.
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Sep 5, 2014 19:21
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Daeren posted:Forcibly dictating to players how they should play their characters is really, really lovely and makes a lot of old players reflexively bristle at the memory of awful GMs. If you want players/characters to do stupid poo poo, you either NPC them (which has its own problems as discussed) or you incentivize acting like a moron. Dangle shiny, shiny beats/willpower/whatever in front of them, and even players reluctant to do dumb things for the sake of the story will jump on it. GMC already has part of that philosophy showing in the fact that you can willingly turn normal failure into dramatic failure for beats, which gets you experience, makes the story more interesting, and actually means you see dramatic failure results more than once a chronicle. I get that taking away a player's agency is a big deal, but for a game that has Loss Of Control as one if its major themes, putting the player into the passenger's seat for a few minutes offers the best way to express that theme both intellectually and emotionally. Yes, it can be mishandled as it's definitely something of an advanced technique. A death rage that lasts hours in-game should still be elided into a much shorter duration out-of-game. It's something that a lot of individual groups may want to opt-out of, similar to player death restrictions or the like. But in terms of what's in the book as a starting place, making the player passive for a brief period of time simply packs a much bigger punch than dangling beats out as incentive. The whole point of death rage is that no one is control, not the character's darkest self or anything like that (which is where it departs from Vampire where frenzy is all about doing the things you deep down crave but try to suppress). It should be used sparingly, used with caution, but it should be used when appropriate. Luminous Obscurity posted:Seriously though, a game where an entire pack goes into Death Rage one night and in the morning they have to go around piecing together what exactly they did so they can find a lost packmemeber would be legit. I love this as a story hook, although I really can't get behind the notion that multiple werewolves in death rage start acting together. Apex predators don't cooperate, and part of the horror of death rage is that even the strongest possible bond a werewolf can know, that of packmates, can't save someone from the monster inside of them.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:32
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The power and terror of werewolves in Forsaken 2.0 has been reinforced time and again - it's not their individual combat prowess, though that's considerable. It's their ability to work together, to utilize all of their forms and all of their packmates to run you down and kill you. And werewolves in death rage are all of that, except also terrifying, unstoppable death machines that want nothing more than to kill and eat everything nearby except for themselves. A werewolf is a pack hunter, always. That's why Death Rage is infectious now and why Death Raging wolves team up.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:39
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Mors Rattus posted:And werewolves in death rage are all of that, except also terrifying, unstoppable death machines that want nothing more than to kill and eat everything nearby except for themselves. A werewolf is a pack hunter, always. That's why Death Rage is infectious now and why Death Raging wolves team up. I can see how that's the more playable choice - having one pack member dead at the hands of another is a good hook, but The Hangover: The Forsaken is probably a better one. Wish it didn't have to be a choice, though, because each are good parts of the tragedy of werewolves.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:51
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Death Rage, in my experience, was never really a "used when appropriate" story-element. The ST never tried any explicit challenges to players to get them to go Kuruth, it was just a consequence of some of the other plot that was happening (like getting a poo poo ton of accumulated damage or having a really low Harmony score. I feel like trying to make it the story would have just given everyone else "paladin fall" vibes.kaynorr posted:I can see how that's the more playable choice - having one pack member dead at the hands of another is a good hook, but The Hangover: The Forsaken is probably a better one. Wish it didn't have to be a choice, though, because each are good parts of the tragedy of werewolves. Werewolves have a lot of tragedies on their plate already, and specifying them as platonic pack hunters rather than sometime-apex predator when provoked is a solid design ethos. Still don't see why Death Rage needs to be longer than a scene, feels like an arbitrary derived integer... but running Kuruth traditionally as a scene-long state is an easy-to-bolt-on house rule.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:30
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Daeren posted:Forcibly dictating to players how they should play their characters is really, really lovely and makes a lot of old players reflexively bristle at the memory of awful GMs. If you want players/characters to do stupid poo poo, you either NPC them (which has its own problems as discussed) or you incentivize acting like a moron. Dangle shiny, shiny beats/willpower/whatever in front of them, and even players reluctant to do dumb things for the sake of the story will jump on it. GMC already has part of that philosophy showing in the fact that you can willingly turn normal failure into dramatic failure for beats, which gets you experience, makes the story more interesting, and actually means you see dramatic failure results more than once a chronicle. Right, saying "forcing" was a misstep. Beats and willpower are the go-to way to ask your players to do things their characters would really rather not. My favorite addition GMC made, in fact.
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Sep 6, 2014 15:20
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So my group just started playing Changeling for the first time and they're loving it, but I wanted to get some clarification on the rules before I accidentally break something/hamstring their fun. I mean, I THINK I'm right, but the wording is kind of vague so I dunno. So first question: regarding Pledges and the granting of boons, when granting said boon it would have to be in a skill you possess those dots for, right? I can't, like, have my bookworm give some poor mortal five dots in kung-fu and let him go beat the poo poo out of people, right? My second question is, we have a character playing a Mirrorskin, and he's loving it, but it's kind of vague how his power works. It says it gives him a bonus to disguise rolls, but would he still need to take however long to work up a disguise and get a disguise kit (I don't know how disguises actually work, I'm envisioning some Team Fortress stuff here), or is this just a shapechange type of thing for your face? I like the second option so that how I'm going with it, I just want to know if I'm doing it wrong. I thought I had more questions but it's late and I can't think of them. Help, please?
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Sep 7, 2014 06:41
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No, you don't need dots in what you offer. Boons are explicitly given by the Wyrd, so they don't come from the character's pool at all. Pledges are an extremely flexible and powerful mechanic, limited somewhat by the fact that mortals benefit from them more easily than Changelings. Mirrorskin seems to be shape-shifting from the fiction and that's always how I've seen it played.
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Sep 7, 2014 07:17
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Oh, okay. So is there anything stopping a motley from giving themselves a free 3-dot merit by sealing some circle-jerk pledge they were going to do anyway? Like, they know a True Fae has rolled into town and it's gonna be a fight but they're going to kick it's rear end ANYWAY, so they all seal a pledge to beat the hell out of it and now suddenly they have three dots in Boxing? Or is that actually kind of encouraged? That's how I picked up how Mirrorskin worked, too, though. And it seems a lot more fun like that so it's what I've been doing. Our first session the Mirrorskin of the group tackled a guy that had just committed a murder, so to try and get info from him he disguised himself as the murdered victim, which caused the murderer to flip out and faint. Not to be deterred, the changeling dragged the guy into the house where the rest of the motley was waiting and immediately entered the murderer's dreams in an attempt to learn more about why he did it/hit him with a terrifying nightmare in a cheap grab for some glamour. What made it funny is, from the other two players perspective, this Mirrorskin just suddenly kicks in the door, drags an unconscious guy into the room, screams "I'll be right back!" and immediately takes a nap.
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Sep 7, 2014 07:35
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Pit of Despair posted:Oh, okay. So is there anything stopping a motley from giving themselves a free 3-dot merit by sealing some circle-jerk pledge they were going to do anyway? Like, they know a True Fae has rolled into town and it's gonna be a fight but they're going to kick it's rear end ANYWAY, so they all seal a pledge to beat the hell out of it and now suddenly they have three dots in Boxing? Or is that actually kind of encouraged? Yeah, that's something you can do. You can also build drama by introducing plot elements that might give characters good reasons to break their pledge, though.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:13
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, that's something you can do. You can also build drama by introducing plot elements that might give characters good reasons to break their pledge, though. Honestly, central to story telling in the wod is having our giving players reasons to do bad, stupid, or lovely things. If players only have good incentives, the game becomes less about horror and more about superheroes.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:25
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, that's something you can do. You can also build drama by introducing plot elements that might give characters good reasons to break their pledge, though. Well, I mean, yeah. Ideally you want the pledges to come with some kind of tension. I was just wondering if the book said anything about that specific setup and I somehow missed it. Although honestly it fits in with the idea of heroes dedicating themselves to a quest and gaining some kind of power from it.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:34
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I'm starting a Mage game for some friends who want to learn the ways of magery, and so naturally it's WoD Hogwarts time. But I am coming up relatively dry on plot lines and to a lesser extent student NPCs. So here's your chance to toss in your high school mage concepts and half-formed plots and have someone get some good out of them!
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Sep 7, 2014 18:55
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Just put in an actual Harry Potter NPC who has a mysterious destiny, keeps getting into adventures, has the eye of the headmaster, etc. Subtly maneuver your players into the role of Draco Malfoy and his flunkies.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:05
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Yawgmoth posted:I'm starting a Mage game for some friends who want to learn the ways of magery, and so naturally it's WoD Hogwarts time. But I am coming up relatively dry on plot lines and to a lesser extent student NPCs. So here's your chance to toss in your high school mage concepts and half-formed plots and have someone get some good out of them! Is it just mages at the school or is it like the X-Men school with all the monsters and freaks hangin' out? Edit: Either way, I got tons of rediculous crap standing by. Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 19:06
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Draco was right.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:11
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Ferrinus posted:Just put in an actual Harry Potter NPC who has a mysterious destiny, keeps getting into adventures, has the eye of the headmaster, etc. Subtly maneuver your players into the role of Draco Malfoy and his flunkies. Yes, do this. Don't forget to give them a chance to completely screw up his destiny and have it all come crashing down. Burn down Fate!
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Sep 7, 2014 19:36
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Actually, gently caress it. Brainstorm, go!
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Sep 7, 2014 19:51
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Cromartie High school, but with magic.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:01
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The group's favorite or plot-critical Magic Tutor is a part of a Mage School exchange program, and is replaced by a weird wizard with kooky traditions and odd abilities. Does the group try to get the exchange ended early, or will they learn to accept the new teachings?
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Sep 7, 2014 20:02
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Are the Coils of the Dragon a bunch of Embeds?
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Sep 7, 2014 20:35
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Are the Coils of the Dragon a bunch of Embeds? I think you have to contort the use-idiom of Embeds too much to justify this. Embeds are active toggles external to the Demon using them, they're embedded in the world. Coils are passive traits that get 'turned on' once and then largely continue forever. We'd be required to conceive as Coils as Embeds that exist *in vampires* as a consequence of the God-Machine (or at least, a trait of reality that exists along the same axes as the God-Machine). They'd get flipped on or off (if you look at a Coil as carving out some metaphysically substantial capacity which functions as a debility of the vampire) and then stuck that way in the process of Chrysalis.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:46
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Are Embeds basically just highly specific applications of Sleeper thaumaturgy? Yes.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:53
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What's a Sleeper thaumaturge? Everyone knows that thaumaturges are the mages who use Forces and Prime magic.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:54
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Hey, everybody, Bob Schnoblin here with a reminder of why a couple of dots in Lore doesn't make you an expert:
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Sep 8, 2014 23:22
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That chart is completely correct, though...?
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Sep 9, 2014 01:25
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