|
OddObserver posted:^^^^^^ I mean, yeah, that's definitely part of it. But another part of it is that people are just more used to Finland being an independent, neutral country than Ukraine. It's been its own country for a lot longer, and it was as neutral a state as possible during the Cold War. Ukraine, on the other hand? Pretty much synonymous with "Russian client state" for most people in the West.
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:39 |
|
|
While I would be hesitant to rely on witness accounts for stuff like this, I do want to confirm one thing: Moscow[*] accent does stick out a lot. It's not the base/generic/news anchor dialect. [*] Not actually limited to there, but the relatives I have that use it as Muscovites.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:While I would be hesitant to rely on witness accounts for stuff like this, I do want to confirm one thing: Moscow[*] accent does stick out a lot. It's not the base/generic/news anchor dialect. Also the BUK that shot down the plane has been seen being driven by the Russian Army flying a Russian flag.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 20:35
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Also the BUK that shot down the plane has been seen being driven by the Russian Army flying a Russian flag. Yeah, though that doesn't mean they didn't "forget the keys in ignition" 50m from the border.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:Yeah, though that doesn't mean they didn't "forget the keys in ignition" 50m from the border. And the instruction manual, don't forget that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Also the BUK that shot down the plane has been seen being driven by the Russian Army flying a Russian flag. They bought it on the local Sunday market from a kind old woman, not their fault the Russian flag was on it. Jeez some of you people. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 20:57
|
|
|
Batham posted:They bought it on the local Sunday market from a kind old woman, not their fault the Russian flag was on it. Jeez some of you people. You're all rubes. It was clearly a false flag operation from the Homojunta. Literally a false flag operation. On account of there being a flag.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
eXXon posted:Wow, that really is some brutal torture right there. not saying it is. Just that tensions between the sides are rising and whatever the outcome is it won't die out in a day or a few years.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
El Scotch posted:And the instruction manual, don't forget that. Not a very good one apparently.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:12
|
|
|
So long as the same BuK is being used now by the Russian army, it's functionally the same thing whether Russian army operators shot the plane down or separatists did it after the Russian army gave it to them. The international community's unwillingness to pin this crime on Russia because they might have to get off their asses about it is staggeringly shameful. I'm also shocked at the audacity of Russia for not destroying the BuK or at least dumping it in an arsenal deep in Siberia. I'd assumed they'd shot and buried the drivers just to make sure they don't talk.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
Dolash posted:I'm also shocked at the audacity of Russia for not destroying the BuK or at least dumping it in an arsenal deep in Siberia. I'd assumed they'd shot and buried the drivers just to make sure they don't talk. Why waste a perfectly good Buk system?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:15
|
|
|
Wee Tinkle Wand posted:Not a very good one apparently. The page saying "don't shoot down a civilian airliner" was missing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
Dolash posted:I'm also shocked at the audacity of Russia for not destroying the BuK or at least dumping it in an arsenal deep in Siberia. I'd assumed they'd shot and buried the drivers just to make sure they don't talk. Or you know, if it really had a Russian flag in it...just paint it over or some poo poo  I'd imagine Russians and Ukrainians share a shitload of military technology.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:26
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:Or you know, if it really had a Russian flag in it...just paint it over or some poo poo See, the Ukrainians painted a Russian flag on it, shot down the plane, and then the freedom fighters captured the BUK.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 21:30
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Oh hey, look what I found, the Buk used to down MH17 in Russia being driven around by Russian troops. They didn't mothball that thing and hide it from sight? That takes balls, especially after that report comes out tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:They didn't mothball that thing and hide it from sight? That takes balls, especially after that report comes out tomorrow. It was filmed in a column heading to the Ukrainian border a few weeks before the attack, not after. Probably should have done a better job painting over all the markings, not just obscuring the number.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 22:08
|
|
|
Hey guys, not to be nitpicking too much, but the system used in the shooting of the airliner is a Buk. It's not an acronym, it's a word. It means "a beech tree" in Russian. I can understand capitalizing the entire word, but occasionally people write it as "BuK", which is weird and makes no sense. In Poland news, Donald Tusk's government is set to resign on Thursday, as Tusk is moving on to become the President of the European Council in December. He will be replaced as Prime Minister by Ewa Kopacz, previously a poor minister of health and a completely unremarkable speaker of the Sejm. For the first time in months, opinion polls seem to favour the government over the opposition.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 22:13
|
|
|
Tevery Best posted:For the first time in months, opinion polls seem to favour the government over the opposition. Those reaalllly don't mean much, whichever way they may sway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
Here is a recent video out of Donbass I think. Донские казаки идут на помощь братьям в Донбассе (Don Cossacks go to help the brothers in the Donbass) - Google translated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rITiBggfYGo
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
Tevery Best posted:In Poland news, Donald Tusk's government is set to resign on Thursday, as Tusk is moving on to become the President of the European Council in December. He will be replaced as Prime Minister by Ewa Kopacz, previously a poor minister of health and a completely unremarkable speaker of the Sejm. For the first time in months, opinion polls seem to favour the government over the opposition. I'm still pissed about Tusk getting one of the best paid job in the EU instead of losing next elections and fading into obscurity like most politicians. I guess I don't like this smug bastard even more than I thought.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 22:56
|
|
|
Tevery Best posted:Hey guys, not to be nitpicking too much, but the system used in the shooting of the airliner is a Buk. It's not an acronym, it's a word. It means "a beech tree" in Russian. I can understand capitalizing the entire word, but occasionally people write it as "BuK", which is weird and makes no sense. "Beech" is "Buch" in German too; "Buchenwald" is "beech forest" (or "beech wood" I guess). I'm pretty sure it's the etymological root of "book" in English (and German) because books were bound in beech bark (possibly a complete myth). Also I speak about as much German as a 2 year old German dog.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
emfive posted:"Beech" is "Buch" in German too; "Buchenwald" is "beech forest" (or "beech wood" I guess). I'm pretty sure it's the etymological root of "book" in English (and German) because books were bound in beech bark (possibly a complete myth). It's 'Buche' - 'Buch' is indeed just a book.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
As a funny aside, in romanian the word for beech is "fag" so native english speakers probably get confused when they go to a local Carrefour here and see labels like "lemn de fag" (beech wood), "mobila de fag" (beech furniture), etc Another one like that is the romanian word "crap" which means carp. Doesn't this sound delicious   Some other funny romanian/english pronunciation things: the english word "foot" is pronounced just like the romanian word "fut", which means (I) gently caress. So if someone yells out "my foot!" to a romanian it sounds just like "mai fut!" (I'm still loving/I'm loving some more!) Or the romanian word "(eu) fac" that means "(I) do" but is pronounced exactly like the english word "gently caress"
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 00:53
|
|
|
The Bulgarian word for 'to drive (a car)' - карати - means 'to gently caress' in Serbian. That can cause some interesting misunderstandings.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:05
|
|
|
3peat posted:Some other funny romanian/english pronunciation things: the english word "foot" is pronounced just like the romanian word "fut", which means (I) gently caress. So if someone yells out "my foot!" to a romanian it sounds just like "mai fut!" (I'm still loving/I'm loving some more!) I would not pronounce fut like foot (more like foo plus a t than foot, which are not pronounced the same) or fac like gently caress, but then I guess these are not universal pronunciations in either language and I can't find dictionaries with phonetic transcriptions to support my claim. The most confusing eastern European language thing is that Serbian, Greek and Romani apparently lack definite articles of any sort, not even postposed ones.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:13
|
|
|
eXXon posted:The most confusing eastern European language thing is that Serbian, Greek and Romani apparently lack definite articles of any sort, not even postposed ones. I honestly still don't understand the point of definite articles. What kind of useful information that can't be grasped from context are they supposed to convey? They're completely alien to me, and I have to think about what I'm saying almost every time I use them in English.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
I am invoking Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. - Are you sure you want to invoke the article? Definitely.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
eXXon posted:I am invoking Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty.  A great pun AND topical to boot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:48
|
|
|
my dad posted:I honestly still don't understand the point of definite articles. What kind of useful information that can't be grasped from context are they supposed to convey? They're completely alien to me, and I have to think about what I'm saying almost every time I use them in English. You don't always have the context.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:49
|
|
|
my dad posted:I honestly still don't understand the point of definite articles. What kind of useful information that can't be grasped from context are they supposed to convey? They're completely alien to me, and I have to think about what I'm saying almost every time I use them in English. "Give me five" "Give me a five" "Give me the five" all have rather different implied meanings.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:"Give me five" He took five (provinces)
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 01:58
|
|
|
eXXon posted:I would not pronounce fut like foot (more like foo plus a t than foot, which are not pronounced the same) or fac like gently caress, but then I guess these are not universal pronunciations in either language and I can't find dictionaries with phonetic transcriptions to support my claim. They sound pretty much the same to me (and I pronounce them identically), but I guess they get weird with their vowels in english and you can pronounce them differently. Your pronunciation of fut (foo plus t) sounds like Transylvanian accent tho I also did a little google search and could only find this joke http://www.sebastianbargau.ro/2011/05/06/banc-moldovenesc/ (lol) And I also found that there's a wikipedia page for curse words in romanian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_profanity and whoever wrote that felt really poetic that day  quote:n example of this phenomenon is the phrase (Futu-ți) paștele și dumnezeii/Dumnezeul mă-tii astăzi și mâine de nenorocit ("(gently caress) your mother's Easter and [her] God/gods today and tomorrow, you rear end in a top hat"), which can, in theory, be further elaborated. E.g. - Futu-ți Cristoșii mă-tii de câcat rânit cu lopata, meaning (gently caress) your mother's Christ of poo poo taken off with a shovel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 02:30
|
|
|
In Hungary news Orbán is cranking up his project of Putinization again. He was at a Fidesz party meeting on the 6th saying the left-liberals would never return to power and (again) that democracy doesn't need liberalism, then he showed up at one of the country's top univerities on the 7th to tell them that modern democracy had abandoned the necessities of 'principle, honour, greatness, home(land), devotion, rank, order, and firmness' and that the current 'national government' was breaking with the past and beginning a 'new era'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
What are the origins of Fidesz' coziness with Putin?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 02:42
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:What are the origins of Fidesz' coziness with Putin? It's unclear. It goes back at least to 2009, when Orbán (as opposition leader) met Putin at a United Russia congress. If you go back to commentary from that time, there were a lot of questions about what Orbán was aiming to achieve and what the details of their discussions were. Fidesz's pro-Russian stance has steadily hardened from that time. Eva Balogh has a couple of informative discussions of it in English: http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/negotiations-between-putin-and-hungarian-opposition-leader/ (2009) http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/viktor-orban-and-russia-continued-confusion/ (2010) http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/viktor-orbans-russian-roulette/ (2013) http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/viktor-orban-is-the-real-danger-not-the-hungarian-far-right/ (2014) Like she points out in the last piece, at least part of it is Orbán absorbing ideas from Jobbik, which we know is funded from Moscow; one of their MEPs is even thought to be a Russian spy.. e: It's worth pointing out the enormous irony of all this, for those who don't know: Orbán was one of the main leaders of the movement that toppled communist rule and Fidesz started off as a libertarian, extremely pro-Western party. Zohar fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Sep 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
Appreciate it, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 02:51
|
|
|
Zohar posted:e: It's worth pointing out the enormous irony of all this, for those who don't know: Orbán was one of the main leaders of the movement that toppled communist rule and Fidesz started off as a libertarian, extremely pro-Western party. If I was a Polish right wing conspiracy theorist, I'd suspect he was an informant during the communist regime.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 03:02
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:"Give me five" You can still say "give me those five" if you have definite set of five in mind
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 03:03
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:If I was a Polish right wing conspiracy theorist, I'd suspect he was an informant during the communist regime. He was apparently censured for having "Stalinist tendencies" when he was at university under communism  Honestly, though, my feeling is that it's less to do with financial interests and the like, and more just that Orbán is an enormous narcissist. I think around 2008 he decided the West was actually on the wrong side of history, and he started the 'Eastern opening' and now the illiberal democracy stuff because he can't abide the idea of not going down in the history books as a hero. Not to mention that it lets him play at being a dictator.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 03:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:39 |
|
|
Zohar posted:Honestly, though, my feeling is that it's less to do with financial interests and the like, and more just that Orbán is an enormous narcissist. I think around 2008 he decided the West was actually on the wrong side of history, and he started the 'Eastern opening' and now the illiberal democracy stuff I don't think that's that uncommon a sentiment in eastern/central Europe. Except Russia is usually seen as one of the reasons to be banding together, rather than the one they're rallying behind. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been punished more for his brash support of Putin given Hungary's communist past.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 03:35
|
|