|
Rinkles posted:I don't think that's that uncommon a sentiment in eastern/central Europe. Except Russia is usually seen as one of the reasons to be banding together, rather than the one they're rallying behind. If anything Hungary's transition to free market capitalism has been quite rough compared to the rest of Eastern Europe, there still is a dislike for the Soviet Union but growing displeasure to the "Western system" as well. If anything authoritarian national conservatism has become their "third way" which lines up in many ways with Putin. Putin's use of Soviet symbolism is usually as thin as the flags that are being waved around and Hungary itself isn't under real threat of expansion. If anything together they break away a lot of the essentialist characteristics about Russian culture that have been brought up, Hungary isn't in the "Orthodox" world and isn't "Neo-Soviet" but nevertheless they facing many of the same issues for very similar reasons. Hungary like Russia had a rough experience with shock therapy this coupled with a pre-existing legacy of revanchism pushed them both of similar trajectories but at different rates and times. Hungarian GDP per Capita took a pretty big dip during the 1990s, saw strong growth during the prime 2004-2009 era but after 2009 dripped again and didn't really recover. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 9, 2014 |
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 03:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:22 |
|
|
Ardennes posted:If anything Hungary's transition to free market capitalism has been quite rough compared to the rest of Eastern Europe, there still is a dislike for the Soviet Union but growing displeasure to the "Western system" as well. If anything authoritarian national conservatism has become their "third way" which lines up in many ways with Putin. I have a hard time believing most Hungarians see it as a coalition of mutual empathy. The West may have made the growing pains worse than they should have been and exploited them along the way, but it was only because of the five decade long dump their oppressor took over their country that they had to make the transition in the first place. (Furthermore, the dilapidated state it was left in was what made much of that exploitation possible). It could certainly be a convenient arrangement, though. Desperate countries can do strange things. The popular rise of an almost(?) openly fascist party is especially worrying (though I'd need to read up on the specifics of Jobbik). Rinkles fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Sep 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 05:27
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:I have a hard time believing most Hungarians see it as a coalition of mutual empathy. The West may have made the growing pains worse than they should have been and exploited them along the way, but it was only because of the five decade long dump their oppressor took over their country that they had to make the transition in the first place. (Furthermore, the dilapidated state it was left in was what made much of that exploitation possible). Here's an article from today in the NYT about the press being suppressed in Hungary http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/09/opinion/hungarys-crackdown-on-the-press.html
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:"Give me five" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkisx_ifQAw Yes I know he says fife but it's close enough!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 07:07
|
|
|
Zohar posted:http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/viktor-orbans-russian-roulette/ (2013) quote:"These days the Hungarian government is considering the possibility of converting some of the Hungarian National Bank’s reserves to rubles because of the precarious situation of the dollar" [quoted in text from United Russia website] Did this actually end up happening because a quick google search didn't reveal any all caps headlines with blaring sirens to that effect?  This might let Hungary avoid IMF hardships, but still at what risk and price?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkisx_ifQAw that is NOT the ultimate simpsons quote
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 07:18
|
|
|
Zohar posted:In Hungary news Orbán is cranking up his project of Putinization again. He was at a Fidesz party meeting on the 6th saying the left-liberals would never return to power and (again) that democracy doesn't need liberalism, then he showed up at one of the country's top univerities on the 7th to tell them that modern democracy had abandoned the necessities of 'principle, honour, greatness, home(land), devotion, rank, order, and firmness' and that the current 'national government' was breaking with the past and beginning a 'new era'. Rinkles posted:I don't think that's that uncommon a sentiment in eastern/central Europe. Except Russia is usually seen as one of the reasons to be banding together, rather than the one they're rallying behind. Hungary is a little different from other eastern European countries in regards to hating the west, because of Trianon. It's also why Hungarian turanism is a thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 07:55
|
|
|
3peat posted:Hungarian turanism Hungarian  Turianism?!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 07:58
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkisx_ifQAw Try saying "my fife!" without slipping into a Borat accent. You can't. It's not possible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 08:03
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Hungarian They're unhappy about calibrations done to their territory.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 08:29
|
|
|
http://spon.de/aejPc Russia is stamping out dissent over Ukraine. From musicians over intellectuals to even a member of the Duma many people are leaving the country because of massive repressions and fear of attacks. People are put on public traitor lists, concerts are cancelled against their wills, they get accused of crimes they did not commit and more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 08:30
|
|
|
I probably phrased it poorly, but what I was trying to say is that as someone who finds definite articles alien (due to speaking a language shaped around not using them) I need to actively think about what information they add before using them - it's hard to do it spontaneously. I don't see point, because I spontaneously try to build sentences in such ways that they'll make sense without them, and that ends up sounding weird in English in ways that it don't sound weird to me until someone points it out.eXXon posted:I am invoking Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. I laughed. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 08:32
|
|
|
3peat posted:Did he end up building that huge stadium in his parents little village, right next to his childhood home? Oh yes...  The marked house is his... More images here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 08:54
|
|
|
my dad posted:The Bulgarian word for 'to drive (a car)' - карати - means 'to gently caress' in Serbian. That can cause some interesting misunderstandings. While 'karati' also means 'to gently caress' in Croatian, it also has a much older meaning that's hardly ever used these days, 'to reprimand'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 08:57
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:I have a hard time believing most Hungarians see it as a coalition of mutual empathy. The West may have made the growing pains worse than they should have been and exploited them along the way, but it was only because of the five decade long dump their oppressor took over their country that they had to make the transition in the first place. (Furthermore, the dilapidated state it was left in was what made much of that exploitation possible). As said, you could say they have other fish to fry at this point, specifically Trianon and the fact ethnic Hungarians are in neighboring countries (mostly in EU member states though). Admittedly, I don't think Hungarians are legitimately being oppressed but it is completely still a thing in Hungary, cars still have license plates with the pre-1920 borders...and not a few of them either. Memory of the Soviet period is still a thing and there isn't much love for Russian but you could say the Soviets were a temporary enemy and they are now back focusing on Trianon and the EU in general. Also, communism in Hungary (Goulash Communism) was actually relatively soft compared to Romania for example *and ultimately the transition during the 1990s was a pretty real drop in at least income. There was a growth spurt with EU accession but many felt that growth wasn't shared equally and the post-2009 period has been pretty miserable, this has been contributed to in large part by Fidesz and their rather reactionary economics. In addition, Orban has manipulated the voting system with by adding more single member districts which means it will be very difficult to dislodge him, his party actually lost 8% of the votes and only 1% of the seats and can still change the constitution to their wishes with 66% of the vote. Also present day Russia and the Soviet Union are different entities anyway and Putin's Russia is very much reactionary/right-wing. Fidesz politics in many ways has turned out not to be pro-democracy but anti-left.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:10
|
|
|
Dutch Safety Board preliminary investigation into MH17 is out, nothing so far that we didn't already know: damage consistent with being struck by a large number of "high-energy objects", the spread of debris indicating it broke up mid air, no indication of crew error. Apparently the cockpit voice recorder stops abruptly, which fits with the crew being shredded. Oh, and of course, this all points to the kiev fascist junta using it's SU25's to shoot down a stolen airliner filled by the CIA with dead bodies to make glorious mother Russia look bad. At least according to the comments on The guardian liveblog which seem to have been annexed like Crimea. Is there some kind of Russian Hasbara organisation? DesperateDan fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Sep 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:28
|
|
|
What I find funny about those comments is how they flood an article bringing it up 4000+ comments in a few hours of them all agreeing with each other, but if it's something they can't even argue they have no presence at all. Anyway I was hoping for something a bit more concrete that wasn't already known, like the most likely direction the missile came from.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:40
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:As said, you could say they have other fish to fry at this point, specifically Trianon and the fact ethnic Hungarians are in neighboring countries (mostly in EU member states though). Admittedly, I don't think Hungarians are legitimately being oppressed but it is completely still a thing in Hungary, cars still have license plates with the pre-1920 borders...and not a few of them either. Memory of the Soviet period is still a thing and there isn't much love for Russian but you could say the Soviets were a temporary enemy and they are now back focusing on Trianon and the EU in general. I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I don't know whether that's enough to give Orban a mandate of coziness with Russia (some of the links posted earlier show Fidesz has a very tight grip on Hungarian media). As in I have no idea because I don't follow Hungarian affairs closely enough currently (I had a very good friend in high school). Although you'd think 1956 and what it stood for would would be fairly fresh in their national memory.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:43
|
|
|
Heliosicle posted:What I find funny about those comments is how they flood an article bringing it up 4000+ comments in a few hours of them all agreeing with each other, but if it's something they can't even argue they have no presence at all. It's very transparent, but many people still fall for this poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:47
|
|
|
Belingcat is full of them in the comment sections too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:57
|
|
|
SA_Avenger posted:well both sides seem to be more and more into intimidation, shaming, kidnapping etc. What that little nerd went through has nothing on what the separatists did to that woman (detention, torture, rape threats, public humiliation compared to getting a tongue lashing and a slap on the back of the head) so it falls a little flat to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 09:59
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I don't know whether that's enough to give Orban a mandate of coziness with Russia (some of the links posted earlier show Fidesz has a very tight grip on Hungarian media). As in I have no idea because I don't follow Hungarian affairs closely enough currently (I had a very good friend in high school). 1956 does but Trianon is just bigger and also it is very possible to look at 1956 as a Soviet invasion not necessarily a Russian one. One thing is that Hungary doesn't have a common border with Russia, so they have actual had a break with the past as far as relations goes. The Baltic States and Poland still border Russia and while Romania doesn't, Moldova is still a big issue for them. In addition, remembrance of 1956 very much became an anti-left/anti-Soviet issue which for Hungarians doesn't necessarily mean anti-Russian, if anything I suspect East Germany is similar in that regard. The Slovaks also don't seem to be particularly upset. As far as "mandates" who knows, but Fidesz does have a tight rein on the media and are still getting a plurality of the vote. That said, Jobbik actually increase their share of the vote and they don't have a problem with Putin either, together they have 64% of the vote. Jobbik itself started with the memory of 1956 as a pretty big part of their message, but not only has the emphasis shifted but that link between Putin, the Soviet Union and 1956 isn't really there from what I remember. From what I heard Hungarian elections are still fairly normal and monitored. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Sep 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 10:13
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:From what I heard Hungarian elections are still fairly normal and monitored. While international monitoring did agree that the Hungarian elections were legal, they did report that it was unfair and unbalanced. Especially that Fidesz rewrote the constitution and the election process, making it completely to be in their favour. I still can't stomac the fact that Fidesz got 40% of the total votes which gave them 2/3 majority in the parliament. How does that work? They also pretty much made it impossible for other parties to advertise on TV and had tight control over billboards and other media. Also people here usually refer to the soviet occupation as Russian occupation. Viktor's earlier campaigns were trying to make him appear as the hero who single handedly sent the Russian solders out of the country in 1989-90. When he became PM the first time in 2000 he said his feet will never touch Russian soil, and wont deal with the evil empire who occupied our country, and cut most of the relations with them. (I was living in Russia at that time, with my parents and friends working at the Hungarian embassy and trade office, we just watched most of the Hungarian companies slowly leave the Russian market.) So when all this big buddy buddy thing with Putin started we were amazed. After refusing the IMF countless times, we struck a 10 billion Euro loan with the russians and agreed on a new nuclear power plan construction by them in Hungary. All this in a single weekend visit. And now the Russian media is pointing fingers at Hungary for selling tanks to Ukraine. Such a great friendship we have with Putin.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 10:47
|
|
|
DesperateDan posted:Is there some kind of Russian Hasbara organisation?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 10:48
|
|
|
kalstrams posted:Yeah, a few of them actually, with up to $0.7 per post, though prices may have changed again You mean I can get paid to shitpost????
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:08
|
|
|
Sandweed posted:Belingcat is full of them in the comment sections too. I'm seriously considered just removing the comments section, it adds nothing to the posts, just a place where people can argue with each other and make idiotic counterpoints against the post that never pan out, mainly because they've not bothered to look at it properly
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:10
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:http://spon.de/aejPc And there's the answer to the recurring "if some Russians know that the regime is full of poo poo, why don't they do something about it?" question that keeps popping every few pages. Simply speaking out instantly makes one a target at this point. Organising something more substantial is suicide. Personally, I'm going with the 'run like hell' option, since it appears to be the best one left.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:10
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:You mean I can get paid to shitpost????
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:12
|
|
|
Heliosicle posted:What I find funny about those comments is how they flood an article bringing it up 4000+ comments in a few hours of them all agreeing with each other, but if it's something they can't even argue they have no presence at all. The replies to Anders Fogh Rasmussen's tweets are really funny, endless posts in broken English from people pretending to be Brits or American using accounts that do nothing but post about Russia 24/7. They're definitely going for volume over quality
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:17
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:http://spon.de/aejPc It would be true for everyone in the article except for Ponomaryov - he was added to the list of Duma members with excessive personal debt alongside some zealous "patriots" (like our own Volgograd fucker Oleg Miheev) about a month ago.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:18
|
|
|
Another good twitter thing is when you browse by keywords, "Ukraine" for example, and there are just waves of homonazi stuff sometimes, with dozens of simultaneous, identically worded tweets.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:21
|
|
|
The guardian or someone should do an article on the comments for hire stuff, maybe quoting comments people have made on their own site, then leave the comments open.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:38
|
|
|
The MH17 report has been released. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/world/europe/malaysian-airliner-ukraine.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0 quote:PARIS — A Malaysia Airlines passenger jet that went down over a war zone in eastern Ukraine in July was struck by “high-energy objects from outside the aircraft,” Dutch officials leading the investigation of the crash said in a preliminary report published on Tuesday.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:47
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:I'm seriously considered just removing the comments section, it adds nothing to the posts, just a place where people can argue with each other and make idiotic counterpoints against the post that never pan out, mainly because they've not bothered to look at it properly Remove the comments section. It adds nothing and prone to abuse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:55
|
|
|
eXXon posted:I am invoking Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. ... I don't get it 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:55
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:Remove the comments section. It adds nothing and prone to abuse. It's literally just 50% people claiming all the images in the piece are photoshopped, and 50% everyone bitching at each other.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:56
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:I'm seriously considered just removing the comments section, it adds nothing to the posts, just a place where people can argue with each other and make idiotic counterpoints against the post that never pan out, mainly because they've not bothered to look at it properly You should. Comments are worthless.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 11:56
|
|
|
Either remove them, or screen them and only leave those that actually add something. That costs time you may not have, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 12:08
|
|
|
Wierre posted:While international monitoring did agree that the Hungarian elections were legal, they did report that it was unfair and unbalanced. Especially that Fidesz rewrote the constitution and the election process, making it completely to be in their favour. I still can't stomac the fact that Fidesz got 40% of the total votes which gave them 2/3 majority in the parliament. How does that work? Sounds like good ol' first-past-the-post voting systems used mainly in anglophone countries. Working as intended! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 12:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:22 |
|
|
Heliosicle posted:Anyway I was hoping for something a bit more concrete that wasn't already known, like the most likely direction the missile came from. Aircraft was headed eastbound (and down), port side cockpit area was hit, so using my super analyst skills I'm going to say from the north? kalstrams posted:Yeah, a few of them actually, with up to $0.7 per post, though prices may have changed again drat, that's not a bad rate of pay for a highly trained shitposter. drat morals keeping me poor again 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 12:29
|
|