|
notaspy posted:This is my favourite part of this. You have the anti-European UNION parties saying that they are pro UNIONIST. That's not an inherently contradictory position unless you take the view that all unions have identical merits.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 14:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 21:32 |
|
|
vodkat posted:Ha! The Westminster crowd looks like its in full panic over Scottish Independence, something they had done there best to ignore until now, although I imagine having our glorious leaders make a trip up north is only going to spur on the yes campaign. aren't they just! Just been on the Telegraph website & it's loving hilarious: the paper's predicting imminent doom and its squad of commentary-writers are in complete meltdown (apparently it's all evil Labour's fault). They'll run out of outrage long before next Thursday, at this rate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 14:18
|
|
|
Umiapik posted:(apparently it's all evil Labour's fault) I'm guessing that's not the argument the Telegraph is making though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 14:30
|
|
|
notaspy posted:This is my favourite part of this. You have the anti-European UNION parties saying that they are pro UNIONIST. but Ukip / Farage ain't anarchists their stance against the EU doesn't come from a princpled of opposing all political unions. I don't see any hypocrisy in saying that the total Atlantic archipelago (give or take) is the perfect size for government and shouldn't be split up into smaller units or subsumed into a larger entity. Don't agree mind you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
I'm very glad the new thread title highlights one of the most ridiculous newspaper stories I've ever seen. As we all know, Scotland wants to leave the union because we haven't been having enough royal babies, and no other reason.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:11
|
|
|
Cameron's reaction to scotland is utterly incredible. I know that the last couple of years I have used the phrase "beyond parody", well, beyond parody, about the Tories, but get this: Cameron is actually trying to keep Britain together by having a Scottish flag flying on the flagpole above Downing street. Somehow he, or his advisors, have come up with the idea of flying a bit of coloured cloth above his house as the best answer they have to staring down the barrel of a country about to democratically vote to leave the UK after decades of incompetent government and at least a year of utter contempt for the idea from the UK government and press, which has included at times ideas to fiscally punish Scotland for having the temerity to hold a vote and leave. And on top of this, when they tried to run it up the flagpole on Sky news a while ago, they hosed it up - the rope snapped and the flag dropped off. Beyond. Motherfucking. Parody.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:31
|
|
|
I'm finding the whole thing upsetting. To having people I thought were friend calling me a traitor, to the spate of nastiness. Coming from Glasgow, it just reminded me of the worst times of Sectarianism. Edit: Replaced type: "tims of Sectarianism". with "times of Sectarianism". Bit of a freudian slip?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
Zero Gravitas posted:Cameron's reaction to scotland is utterly incredible. I know that the last couple of years I have used the phrase "beyond parody", well, beyond parody, about the Tories, but get this: When I heard about Miliband saying people should "fly the saltire over all the UK" I thought it was a bit dumb but whatever. When that loving flag dropped off I felt like I was watching The Thick of It. This whole thing really has been an omnishambles.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:36
|
|
|
I have had no particular strong feelings about whether the scots git tae gently caress or not, but seeing the massive panic among the politicians here, and the potential for damage to the political system makes me long for a strong yes vote, provided my scotch doesn't cost any more
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:40
|
|
|
StoicFnord posted:I'm finding the whole thing upsetting. That's very unfortunate if people are calling you a traitor for voting however you feel is right and in the best interest of the country. Is this widespread? I mean I saw a friend get quite upset when she found out her partner was only planning to vote Yes to stop her going on, and was a bit shocked. I get that it's important, but this sort of reaction still shocked me. It's all seemed pretty reasonable from my own experience, be sad if it goes nasty. Regardless of which side wins the vote, we're still going to be living in the same country and we need to accept the vote, however it goes. I'll be upset if it's a No vote in the end, of course I will. But I don't plan on losing friends over it, and people who do are stupid and short-sighted.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:44
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:That's very unfortunate if people are calling you a traitor for voting however you feel is right and in the best interest of the country. Is this widespread? I mean I saw a friend get quite upset when she found out her partner was only planning to vote Yes to stop her going on, and was a bit shocked. I get that it's important, but this sort of reaction still shocked me. It's all seemed pretty reasonable from my own experience, be sad if it goes nasty. Regardless of which side wins the vote, we're still going to be living in the same country and we need to accept the vote, however it goes. I'll be upset if it's a No vote in the end, of course I will. But I don't plan on losing friends over it, and people who do are stupid and short-sighted. I don't get a vote (Currently living in Cambridge). There has been some very nasty rhetoric online. If you don't think so, poo up a twitter message saying you vote no and tag it #indyref, and wait. For me, it was a person i thought was a friend actually calling me a traitor, and telling me i somehow don't love my country, because i'd rather it went with No. I'm seeing a swathe of nastiness. And, far be it being limited to one side, there's' No voters who have been horrific to people who are expressing their hopes for an independant Scotland. How will the losing side react in terms of a vote that doesnt go their way? I know id probably want to get drunk. Its a pity i cant!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
Umiapik posted:aren't they just! Just been on the Telegraph website & it's loving hilarious: the paper's predicting imminent doom and its squad of commentary-writers are in complete meltdown (apparently it's all evil Labour's fault). They'll run out of outrage long before next Thursday, at this rate.  
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 16:00
|
|
|
Nice, they're already laying the groundwork demonising him for a coup attempt when he is President of all Scotland
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
Zero Gravitas posted:Cameron's reaction to scotland is utterly incredible. I know that the last couple of years I have used the phrase "beyond parody", well, beyond parody, about the Tories, but get this: At this stage I wouldn't be surprised to see a photo-op of Cameron chowing down on a haggis. (Miliband too, though his track record for that sort of thing is not great)
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
It's a step up from being compared with Mugabe... right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
Shyrka posted:It's a step up from being compared with Mugabe... right?  From New Statesman after Darling suggested Salmond was Kim-Jong-Il  A lovely UKIP intervention which also references Daleks
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
StoicFnord posted:I don't get a vote (Currently living in Cambridge). People tend to be nasty online where they are anonymous, and yeah twitter is especially bad, but I haven't encountered any nastiness in person. In fact I've been very pleasantly surprised by how reasonable the non-online discussion has been, from canvassers from both sides, and from talking to friends and family. I was just at a friend's engagement party where the room was pretty evenly split (even the happy couple were on opposite sides) and there was some nice drunken discussion on the referendum. I even got into a debate with a homeless guy when I went out for a smoke (he was a committed no).
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 17:34
|
|
|
marktheando posted:People tend to be nasty online where they are anonymous, and yeah twitter is especially bad, but I haven't encountered any nastiness in person. In fact I've been very pleasantly surprised by how reasonable the non-online discussion has been, from canvassers from both sides, and from talking to friends and family. I was just at a friend's engagement party where the room was pretty evenly split (even the happy couple were on opposite sides) and there was some nice drunken discussion on the referendum. I even got into a debate with a homeless guy when I went out for a smoke (he was a committed no). I've been doing canvassing and the most hostile receptions you get are from people who are in the middle of something or think it's too late in the day for people to be knocking on their door. The 'nastiness' thing simply isn't real on the street.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 17:49
|
|
|
I was out at a local Wetherspoons at the weekend with a couple of friends and almost everyone in the place was talking about the referendum. Of my friends one's on the No side, one's still undecided and I'm on Yes so we ended up having a nice conversation about it all. Hell, even in the toilets of the club we went to people were grouped up talking about voting Yes or No in a drunken but amicable state. It was pretty awesome to see.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
UKMT hivemind: What kind of effect does being turned down for car insurance have on a potential quote? I had that whole messy business where a misunderstanding on my part led to Hastings turning me down, and my current insurance runs out in a couple of months.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
I don't think it matters?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
StoicFnord posted:I don't get a vote (Currently living in Cambridge). I'm not going to doubt your experience, and yeah, there's undeniably cretins online with no tolerance for opposing views, but on the streets of Inverness (& the little time I've spent in Glasgow last weekend) at least the atmosphere has never been nasty. Passionate, but I've certainly not seen or heard very much in the way of vitriol. Obviously there is some folk who take it take it too far (and not exclusive to either side, Jim Murphy was hardly the only campaigner to be hit by an egg), but generally the debate has been healthy, and it's everywhere. I can't see it as a bad thing, it's just gotten so many people talking about politics for the first time, which is very exciting in itself. Ultimately people online will be cocks about just about anything. I don't think it's a reflection on how divided Scottish society is or isn't. How the losers will react? I expect there will be a day or two of being sad and grumpy before getting back to reality and trying to make whatever our future is work. I'll be loving inconsolable if we vote no for a while, maybe a couple of hours, but hey, I've lived through Tories winning elections without offing myself or starting a guerilla war, so I imagine I'll just about cope once I manage to grab some perspective. And I can't see it being much different. I'd guess if No wins indy campaigners will console themselves with how close they came and trying again in 10-15 years time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 18:18
|
|
|
Renaissance Robot posted:Whenever I need to cheer myself up about our national situation, I go and read the Japan thread for a bit. At least there won't be any little green men influencing the outcome of this vote for separation...
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 18:38
|
|
|
StoicFnord posted:I don't get a vote (Currently living in Cambridge). You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. So is most of the left in regard to Scottish independence. Wanting the UK to be broken up for vague reasons of spiting the tories or the laughable promise that it will inspire greater social fairness in England, is complete and utter nonsense. What we'll have is too weaker countries, one leftist, one rightest. Both economically troubled and weak in the face of a rising China and Russia. Scotland will be subsumed within the EU and either lose its identity (but for some weird reason it won't bother them this time) or worse, the EU will end up under the thumb of Russia. England will either face the same fate or worse, split from the EU and be isolated. The future looks loving great my leftist comrade.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
 StoicFnord posted:I don't get a vote (Currently living in Cambridge). I'd be more surprised if this type of poo poo wasn't happening
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:00
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor... This is every bit as crazy as some of the absurd tripe the nationalists come up with FYI.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. So is most of the left in regard to Scottish independence. Wanting the UK to be broken up for vague reasons of spiting the tories or the laughable promise that it will inspire greater social fairness in England, is complete and utter nonsense. What we'll have is too weaker countries, one leftist, one rightest. Both economically troubled and weak in the face of a rising China and Russia. Scotland will be subsumed within the EU and either lose its identity (but for some weird reason it won't bother them this time) or worse, the EU will end up under the thumb of Russia. England will either face the same fate or worse, split from the EU and be isolated. The future looks loving great my leftist comrade. On top of this being exceedingly stupid in general, but you didn't even manage to read StoicFnord's post. Let me quote him for you: "because i'd rather it went with No."
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:04
|
|
|
edit: wrong thread.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:04
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. So is most of the left in regard to Scottish independence. Wanting the UK to be broken up for vague reasons of spiting the tories or the laughable promise that it will inspire greater social fairness in England, is complete and utter nonsense. What we'll have is too weaker countries, one leftist, one rightest. Both economically troubled and weak in the face of a rising China and Russia. Scotland will be subsumed within the EU and either lose its identity (but for some weird reason it won't bother them this time) or worse, the EU will end up under the thumb of Russia. England will either face the same fate or worse, split from the EU and be isolated. The future looks loving great my leftist comrade. I love that you were so desperate to attack the evil traitor yes voter that you didn't even realise he was on your side.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. So is most of the left in regard to Scottish independence. Wanting the UK to be broken up for vague reasons of spiting the tories or the laughable promise that it will inspire greater social fairness in England, is complete and utter nonsense. What we'll have is too weaker countries, one leftist, one rightest. Both economically troubled and weak in the face of a rising China and Russia. Scotland will be subsumed within the EU and either lose its identity (but for some weird reason it won't bother them this time) or worse, the EU will end up under the thumb of Russia. England will either face the same fate or worse, split from the EU and be isolated. The future looks loving great my leftist comrade. This is better for Yes than any of our campaign materials.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
Obliterati posted:This is better for Yes than any of our campaign materials. It doesn't say much for your campaign materials if a paywalled post on an American forum is more effective.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:08
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:It doesn't say much for your campaign materials if a paywalled post on an American forum is more effective. beep boop what is jokeeeee 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:19
|
|
|
Don't make fun of me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
Adrianics posted:UKMT hivemind: What kind of effect does being turned down for car insurance have on a potential quote? I had that whole messy business where a misunderstanding on my part led to Hastings turning me down, and my current insurance runs out in a couple of months. I think you have to declare if you have ever been refused insurance when you apply for new insurance... not sure if there is a timeframe (e.g. within the last 6/12 months). If it was for a genuine mistake you might fare better ringing companies you think will give you a decent quote and explaining the circumstances over the phone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. So is most of the left in regard to Scottish independence. Wanting the UK to be broken up for vague reasons of spiting the tories or the laughable promise that it will inspire greater social fairness in England, is complete and utter nonsense. What we'll have is too weaker countries, one leftist, one rightest. Both economically troubled and weak in the face of a rising China and Russia. Scotland will be subsumed within the EU and either lose its identity (but for some weird reason it won't bother them this time) or worse, the EU will end up under the thumb of Russia. England will either face the same fate or worse, split from the EU and be isolated. The future looks loving great my leftist comrade. I'm not sure I can rebut this because I mostly work in the realm of non-fiction Also as a dangerous marxist I agree with the referendum because nations should have self determination and if it turns out hatespeech and threats of fiscal penalty don't keep them in line maybe we should come up with better plans before Salmond makes us look like we're begging in the mud next to a sad and broken Saltire Spangly A fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. So is most of the left in regard to Scottish independence. Wanting the UK to be broken up for vague reasons of spiting the tories or the laughable promise that it will inspire greater social fairness in England, is complete and utter nonsense. What we'll have is too weaker countries, one leftist, one rightest. Both economically troubled and weak in the face of a rising China and Russia. Scotland will be subsumed within the EU and either lose its identity (but for some weird reason it won't bother them this time) or worse, the EU will end up under the thumb of Russia. England will either face the same fate or worse, split from the EU and be isolated. The future looks loving great my leftist comrade. Scotland seceding from the union is not going to cause the entirety of Europe to fall under Putin's shadow. He's not Sauron. Well, as far as I know. Although, at this point I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Russia tried to invade newly independent Scotland while they're temporarily sans EU and NATO membership. I'm only half joking there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:You are a traitor. I'm not calling for you to be shot but you are a traitor. I thought traitors had to desert combat or sell state secrets, not cast a vote in a referendum. I guess Regarde Aduck is a traitor too... to democracy. And he should be shot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 19:32
|
|
|
I love this. "Yes, we're living in Misery thanks to the tories, so you should too!" gently caress that. If Scotland has a chance to get out, good on them. If I could vote, I'd vote yes. e: It's also great that apparently Scotland is the only thing standing between us and the
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
quote:Tim Montgomerie @TimMontgomerie Times Columnist/former editor of Conservativehome 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 21:32 |
|
|
twoot posted:Times Columnist/former editor of Conservativehome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsxhMAnglaE
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2014 20:19
|
|