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Phobophilia posted:Everything I've read and watched about feudal Japan makes them out as some of the least honorable motherfuckers ever. Yeah, it was a time of tremendous civil war where efficacy won out over honor any day. Toyotomi Hideyoshi (one of the 'winners,' more or less) started life as a shoe shiner and rose to the top by being real hard core. Oda Nobunaga may have committed glorious seppuku, but he only did so after he was betrayed by a vassal. Mostly because he'd used that vassal's mother as collateral for a deal which he then broke. Like, I think there was a sense of 'honor' to the culture but it was pretty blood thirsty. Nabbing a dude with one of those horo silk arrow catchers, for instance, was real nice because then you could wrap their head in the silk for a sick 2x bonus to your honor rating on that kill, brah. Or, for instance, the (true) story of the 47 Ronin. Yeah, they get big props for honor and poo poo, but their honorable action was basically 'hold a grudge for a year and then knife a dude in his sleep.' There's an 'honor' there but it's clear about violent men being encouraged to commit violence in a way that benefits their lords. Kemper Boyd posted:Yeah, the later idea of bushido and so on are basically made up. Yeah, I disagree a bit. The idea is clearly there, if often abused, as a sort of theoretical. But again it's almost always about how you treat your lord and how your lord treats you. It's an honor that keeps a closed circle because your circle is fighting with another circle, it's not about respecting you foe (because ew...) it's about your glory. But yeah, then the Tokugawa's take over and get really, really good at locking the country down. Like it's basically a clinic in 'how to create a stable system.'
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Sep 2, 2014 15:31
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JaucheCharly posted:I kinda expected that sombody would post Moshtagh Khorasani these days. He will be participating in a fight soon soon. http://www.moshtaghkhorasani.com/razmafzar/events/18-100-man-weapon-fight-prague-czech-republic/ Whoa, that's pretty fuckin' rad. I also hope someone films this, because it will at least be really interesting to watch.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:40
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So I heard you like crossbows:  The different layers of sinew are visible. You know, the hornstrips are interesting. I don't mean the fact that they're upside down. That's rather obvious if you ever had to work with horns that are too short and/or thin walled. The standard size for short turkish bows that you can easily afford today is like 60cm. After the horn is cleaned, there is only a small section of maybe 20cm that is thicker than your pinky finger, which is the part where the horn is still solid and doesn't start to get hollow in the middle. Cleaned they look like this  You can't get the desired thickness along the whole length of the horn, but the width. So you stack them like that. The guy from Thailand where I bought my horns told me that this standard size isn't commonly found. You need to sort through lots of horns to find some like these. There's also other things on the checklist, but we don't need to go into detail. This is the largest horn that I had so far. It's about 75cm long, with a very long solid part. You can also see the "growthrings", which will form a pleasant pattern if you work it right.  Mind you, these are exceptional horns from Bubalus bubalis. Whatever people in Europe used back then, Ibex (less wall thickness and crazy reflex) or Cow (generally not good quality horn and shorter), you'd have to be creative. What I meant initially with this being interesting is the presence of matching grooves. There are no old hornbows with matching grooves (this is a modern invention by a German researcher in the 1930s). They all have non matching grooves or are either left coarse from rasping. Apparently the stresses in the prod that is constructed that way are so great, that one needs to match em like that, which isn't so easy. The thick layer of sinew on top also needs a long time to cure. How expensive were those crossbows? e: typos Power Khan fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 09:50
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In my experience more people react with shock at the idea of hot gay sex being A Thing for the Jannissaries and the Samurai than the idea of the latter not being honourable. (Also Jauche sorry if I did not type the name correctly, I am on my phone and fighting the urge to type Jenizaro) 
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Sep 5, 2014 10:05
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Since loving underage boys up the rear end went out of style here in the west, I don't think you can say anything positive about the Janissaries. Other than that they were good business for the carpenters of Istanbul. Why? Arson.
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Sep 5, 2014 14:01
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JaucheCharly posted:Since loving underage boys up the rear end went out of style here in the west. Lol
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Sep 5, 2014 15:24
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The book that I had suggested that it's due to the lack of female prostitutes, because of :Islam: There's a video by vice about the afghan military on youtube that tells that this is also the favourite pastime of the afghan army. Quoting the commander when told about the problem: "Who are they going to gently caress instead? Their mothers?"
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Sep 5, 2014 16:55
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JaucheCharly posted:The book that I had suggested that it's due to the lack of female prostitutes, because of :Islam: I'm surprised by that - I seem to recall reading about prostitution in the Islamic world, aka the "2-hour marriage".
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Sep 5, 2014 19:43
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As far as I know, it's a Shia thing that's popular in Iran atm.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:05
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JaucheCharly posted:What about the 16th century Turk and Persian soldiers wearing textile armor over their mail? That style of armor originated in the 10th or 11th century I think. It's usually referred to as kazagand (unsure on the spelling here). It consisted of two to three layers of mail armor with cloth padding between each layer and then a tunic or jacket over the last layer (with the top rings sewn into it). I would guess that fashion was part of the reason for this as you could wear something looked somewhat like fancy clothign with intricated detail while still being protected in battle, warriors, especially aristocratic and other elites, were usually pretty vain throughout history. It was also useful in that you could appear to be unarmored and normally clothed in social settings, giving you some extra protection against assassination attempts, for many Muslim rulers, especially once the Assassins got going form the 11th century onwards, this was a very important concern. Saladin for instance took to wearing a kazagand coat pretty much every waking hour after the Assassins had made an attempt on his life once. WoodrowSkillson posted:Do not know for sure for them but it is my understanding the large tabards crusaders wore were largely for that purpose. Also world of warcraft has rendered google nigh useless for the subject of tabards. Knights wore tabards in Europe as well though, I can't really see how they were anything but heraldic in purpose. Though some depictions of crusader knights show them wearing cloth turbans wrapped around open faced helmets and short sleeved mail coats.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:33
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Randarkman posted:It consisted of two to three layers of mail armor with cloth padding between each layer and then a tunic or jacket over the last layer (with the top rings sewn into it). But now im curious about how the effectiveness of this composite armor compares to a full metal breastplate. Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 21:49
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Nektu posted:I highly doubt that "3 layers of mail with padded cloth in between" looks anything like "unarmored" and "normal clothing". not padded cloth, just padded with cloth. or rather the mail rings were sewn into the cloth, and you had 2 or 3 layers of this. Sources say that Saladin in his coat looked unarmored but for his collar being really stiff.
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Sep 6, 2014 00:32
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Randarkman posted:not padded cloth, just padded with cloth. or rather the mail rings were sewn into the cloth, and you had 2 or 3 layers of this. Sources say that Saladin in his coat looked unarmored but for his collar being really stiff.
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Sep 6, 2014 07:16
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Let's start the day by posting weapons and armour. This is from the depots of the Topkapi Museum         The state of conservation seems to be not so good. This one is from the collection in Dresden. 
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Sep 6, 2014 08:01
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the JJ posted:
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Sep 6, 2014 12:19
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TRUMAN DID NOTHING WRONG
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Sep 6, 2014 13:35
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JaucheCharly posted:Let's start the day by posting weapons and armour.     According to some dude on the Internet: "From Christie's, September 19, 1990, lots 47 and 48, an image from their showroom attached....Originally they came from the arsenal of the Fortress of Hohensalzburg..." Edit: This is somewhat depressing though:  You can see where the butt ends are worn, though, probably from dragging against the ground when you trail them. I had not thought to see that on authentic pikes, so I'm pretty stoked here. Also, I had been wondering whether the originals were always tapered, and looks like: no. Note as well that there's lots of different types of heads. I have read officers with strong opinions on the best kind. 
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 14:44
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HEY GAL posted:I have read officers with strong opinions on the best kind. In the 1640's the Irish Confederate pikemen were using those pyramid pike heads while their English/Scottish, Royalist/Parliament enemies were using leaf shaped bladed pike heads. Everyone seems to regard the pyramidal pike heads as superior. Almost the entire Irish force was unarmoured though, so who knows if they were really better. Was there a standardised pike head shape for the Spanish armies?
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Sep 8, 2014 17:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv6tqQe-O2M
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Sep 8, 2014 17:26
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This is awesome. The chain faceguard is always cool looking, and its always fascinating to see where they were the most worried about getting hit. I assume this is cavalry centric armor? Seems like a lot of leg protection which would make sense if you were on a horse.
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Sep 8, 2014 18:03
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Rabhadh posted:In the 1640's the Irish Confederate pikemen were using those pyramid pike heads while their English/Scottish, Royalist/Parliament enemies were using leaf shaped bladed pike heads. Everyone seems to regard the pyramidal pike heads as superior. quote:Was there a standardised pike head shape for the Spanish armies? Also, where is your pike post? Two entire other people care about this! At least two. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 18:19
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HEY GAL posted:I don't know, since the only works on the Army of Flanders/other Spanish armies I'm familiar with are in English and German and they don't go down to that level of detail. There's probably a detailed memo on this (signed and dated, ofc) in Madrid somewhere, but I wouldn't have come into contact with it. I ask about Spain because the Irish guys were almost universally trained and equipped in the Spanish style, so I was wondering if they preferred the pyramidal heads. I don't really believe the type of head is important anyway as the English and Scottish conscripts often shortened their pikes yet this problem isn't reported on the Irish side. HEY GAL posted:Also, where is your pike post? Two entire other people care about this! At least two. Hah, SeanBeansShako call me out on this the other night while playing with muskets, my only excuse is it's back to school week and I'm busy. Sit tight though.
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Sep 8, 2014 19:39
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Rabhadh posted:I ask about Spain because the Irish guys were almost universally trained and equipped in the Spanish style, so I was wondering if they preferred the pyramidal heads. I don't really believe the type of head is important anyway as the English and Scottish conscripts often shortened their pikes yet this problem isn't reported on the Irish side. quote:Hah, SeanBeansShako call me out on this the other night while playing with muskets, my only excuse is it's back to school week and I'm busy. Sit tight though.
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Sep 8, 2014 19:48
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HEY GAL posted:I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Inexperienced people shorten their pikes because pikes are hard to carry and they'll chop a foot off here and there the night after the first windy day if they think nobody will catch them doing it. What does that have to do with head shape? Oh just that the only reasons given for why the Irish pikemen won the push in certain battles is either the pyramidal pike heads or their pikes were longer, as the Irish guys were usually unarmoured. But if their pikes were longer then the head hardly matters anyway.
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Sep 8, 2014 19:54
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Rabhadh posted:Oh just that the only reasons given for why the Irish pikemen won the push in certain battles is either the pyramidal pike heads or their pikes were longer, as the Irish guys were usually unarmoured. But if their pikes were longer then the head hardly matters anyway.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:06
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HEY GAL posted:But an extra foot or two will matter. At what point does the length become prohibitive? Even the longer ones they used bowed a bit under their own weight. Wouldn't a floppy/bowed pike be pretty difficult to get any precision with (or was the nature of mass pike formation effective regardless of individual precision)?
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Sep 8, 2014 21:15
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DandyLion posted:At what point does the length become prohibitive? Even the longer ones they used bowed a bit under their own weight. Wouldn't a floppy/bowed pike be pretty difficult to get any precision with (or was the nature of mass pike formation effective regardless of individual precision)?
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Sep 8, 2014 21:22
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JaucheCharly posted:Let's start the day by posting weapons and armour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usNi8naFKTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U2GufywBos
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Sep 9, 2014 02:07
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Festung Hohensalzburg is a pretty impressive place. It's also quite large. The pictures don't do it justice. Those pyramidal heads look like they're pretty good at piercing armour, but I guess the leaf shaped heads can also be used to some effect to slash. Regarding the Safavid armour, I have no real clue about it, but I also thought that the leg protection, especially the plates on the sides, point to a set that was to be used on horse. I kind of wonder about the protective value of the faceguard, but I guess they used the separ to protect the face. Is that a wheellock?
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Sep 9, 2014 07:00
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JaucheCharly posted:Is that a wheellock? I think so! The action is so smooth though.
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Sep 9, 2014 07:58
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JaucheCharly posted:Let's start the day by posting weapons and armour. This is from the depots of the Topkapi Museum Have a picdump from my recent visit to the Tower of London. Unfortunately I don't remember the histories of most of these pieces from the armoury there but hopefully they're of some interest - I just like ridiculously ornate decorative armour. Excuse the poor image quality and lack of editing skills.   This was King James II's armour, and I think dates from the 1680s.  "Burgonet. German, probably Augsburg, about 1600"   A mace that you can also shoot people with.  A nearby child said "I can't believe they made babies fight in the wars." "The armour is quite well proportioned and is correctly constructed and would be wearable by someone small enough. Hewitt in his catalogue of 1859 suggests that it was made for a dwarf and in this connection Jeffrey Hudson, the dwarf of Queen Henrietta Maria may be suggested as a possible owner. Hudson who entered the Queen’s service about 1630, is described as being about eighteen inches tall at this date though he later grew to a height of over three feet. The helmet is identical to that worn by Charles I in Le Sueur’s bust at Stourhead, Wiltshire. This has also lost its wings. The armour might therefore have been that of Charles I as a child aged about ten."  "This ‘ancient German saddle’ was displayed in the Western vestibule of the New Horse Armoury by the mid 19th century. Its bone plaques are decorated with dragons, and it is possibly a gift from the Emperor Sigismund to King Henry V on his joining the Hungarian Dragon Order in 1416."    "Pikeman’s Armour. English, about 1625.This is one of a small but distinctive group of very fine English pikemen’s armours. These were once attributed to the royal workshops at Greenwich, but it has since been shown that they were made by members of the Armourers Company of London. Their decoration was probably intended to reflect the pattern of the Bargello or ‘flame stitch’ patterns popular at the same time for interior decoration."  Apparently, a warhammer that you can also shoot people with. Early 17th Century. "The axe-head head contains five barrels, their muzzles concealed by a hinged cover forming the edge of the axe-blade. The topmost barrel is ignited by a matchlock fitted on one side of the axe-head, its mechanism concealed by a brass plate cut out and engraved in the form of a lion. The second barrel has a wheellock ignition system, the mechanism of which occupies most of the outer surface of the opposite side of the axe-head. There is a tubular extension to the pan of the wheellock intended to hold a length of match which would be ignited by the flash of the priming and then withdrawn to ignite the three remaining barrels. A sixth barrel, also hand-ignited, is concealed within the haft." Edit: Found some descriptions for some of the items on the Royal Armouries website. Owlkill fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 17:38
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JaucheCharly posted:Is that a wheellock?
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Sep 9, 2014 23:16
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HEY GAL posted:Top one's a wheellock, and it's loving perfect. Bottom one's a matchlock. You can tell by the match. Are you talking about your post on the fortress hohensalzburg? Because I only really see one gun looking thing and it's that enormous thing under what looks to be a whole bunch of suspended pikes. e: nvm I figured it out. Jauche confused me because he addressed you before the guy who posted the gun youtubes. Frostwerks fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 01:39
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HEY GAL posted:Top one's a wheellock, and it's loving perfect. Bottom one's a matchlock. You can tell by the match. The wheel lock and matchlock are my favorite wrestling moves.
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Sep 10, 2014 01:51
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Owlkill posted:
Holy poo poo this is going into my animes.
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Sep 10, 2014 01:59
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Any HEMA people here practice medieval wrestling besides the sword fighting? Last christmas I got the amazing Codex Wallerstein and it has a lot of neat stuff: we tried out what was in there with a friend of mine who is a defensive tactics instructor for the local police academy, some of the stuff seemed a bit shaky but the rest was more or less the same you would find in any decent jujutsu, judo or catch wrestling class. Edit: Among the techniques we tried from the book were these.It was pretty great. ManOfTheYear fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 02:40
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Frostwerks posted:Are you talking about your post on the fortress hohensalzburg? Because I only really see one gun looking thing and it's that enormous thing under what looks to be a whole bunch of suspended pikes. Always a gentleman.
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Sep 10, 2014 08:11
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JaucheCharly posted:Always a gentleman. Chivalry isn't dead.
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Sep 10, 2014 08:34
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ManOfTheYear posted:Any HEMA people here practice medieval wrestling besides the sword fighting? Last christmas I got the amazing Codex Wallerstein and it has a lot of neat stuff: we tried out what was in there with a friend of mine who is a defensive tactics instructor for the local police academy, some of the stuff seemed a bit shaky but the rest was more or less the same you would find in any decent jujutsu, judo or catch wrestling class. My local group ran through Wallerstein last year. None of the knife techniques looked as clean/crisp as the video by Andrej. We found that unless directed, most of us favored faster less telegraphed jabs with the dagger that were much harder to trap than what was in the video. That being said the unamrmed ringen portions are quite fun/simple to execute, and I find myself usually ending about half my bouts through some kind of ringen.
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Sep 10, 2014 17:33
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Is it just me or does HEMA sound like a life threatening disease
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Sep 10, 2014 17:45
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