|
My Imaginary GF posted:poo poo's real bad I hadn't even realized how bad things had gotten there. It sounds like the best case scenario is serious instability and possible revolution, the middle case is massive social upheaval and lots of starvation and the worst case scenario is "West Africa becomes a wasteland due to society collapsing." As if Africa didn't have enough problems to deal with axeil fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Sep 6, 2014 |
# ? Sep 6, 2014 03:46 |
|
|
# ? Jun 7, 2024 03:29 |
|
axeil posted:I hadn't even realized how bad things had gotten there. It sounds like the best case scenario is serious instability and possible revolution, the middle case is massive social upheaval and lots of starvation and the worst case scenario is "West Africa becomes a wasteland due to society collapsing." WHO is forecasting Monrovia needs an additional 800 beds in isolation wards for treating patients. That's almost triple the current number in the entire country. It's a nightmare.
|
# ? Sep 6, 2014 04:33 |
|
Johnny Cache Hit posted:WHO is forecasting Monrovia needs an additional 800 beds in isolation wards for treating patients. That's almost triple the current number in the entire country. Just a reminder: 80 beds requires 230 support staff; 2,300 support staff for Monrovia. 800:2,300 isn't a sustainable case management load if it goes an order or two higher. 8,000:23,000, or in two to six months, 80,000:230,000. Sierra Leone issued a call for 23,000~ employes recently, with salary paid at Western rates. About $500/day (USD) for staff [including the 1/10 HCW contracting EBV and the $25,000 life insurance offered with an estimated CFR of 70%, could use an estimated rate for contact tracer infections and burial team infections], 500*23,000 = $11,500,000 daily direct (KPMG monitoring) salary costs in Sierra Leone for the next 6 months with the staffing levels required for September, or, $2,070,000,000 salary cost for the ebolavirus outbreak in Sierra Leone paid for by WHO. Does not include any costs other than wages and benefits paid directly to Leonese employes and monitored by KPMG, so I expect the salaries and insurance to actually go through. E: Note, this is a full quarter of Sierra Leone's yearly GDP. I'm on my mobile and don't have a good way to do it, if anyone has the time to go through: http://health.gov.sl/?page_id=583 Sierra Leone's daily situation reports and graph out the contact tracing (new listed/new illness/total contacts/completed 21 days) I think it'd make for a pretty easy visual on the growing rate of the crisis. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Sep 6, 2014 |
# ? Sep 6, 2014 05:03 |
|
So just wondering, the only ways to stop or even slow down the Ebola outbreak in these countries are by having a proper hardass quarantine where the soldiers shoot anyone who tries to leave, having an adequate number of doctors and hospital space, and somehow teaching millions and millions of people living in some of the most hosed up countries on the planet how germ theory works. Is there like a fourth thing that could help? Are you guys still sure that a low millions casualty count isn't likely?
|
# ? Sep 6, 2014 15:21 |
|
ChairMaster posted:So just wondering, the only ways to stop or even slow down the Ebola outbreak in these countries are by having a proper hardass quarantine where the soldiers shoot anyone who tries to leave, having an adequate number of doctors and hospital space, and somehow teaching millions and millions of people living in some of the most hosed up countries on the planet how germ theory works. Is there like a fourth thing that could help? A vaccine.
|
# ? Sep 6, 2014 16:00 |
|
Spazzle posted:A vaccine. Basically this is the only chance they have. But the odds of an effective vaccine getting out before everything gets too hosed up to actually be able to deploy a vaccine in large scale?
|
# ? Sep 6, 2014 16:34 |
|
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/06/sierra-leone-lockdown-ebola-outbreak Médecins sans Frontières: Please don't put in a hardass quarantine. It will make things worse.quote:A four-day nationwide lockdown announced by the Sierra Leone government in a bid to contain the biggest ever outbreak of Ebola could instead exacerbate the spread of the disease, aid agencies have warned.
|
# ? Sep 6, 2014 17:36 |
|
Edit: I can't tell between the GBS thread and the DND one I guess
Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 6, 2014 |
# ? Sep 6, 2014 17:48 |
|
I highly doubt the ability of these governments to actually enforce even a straight up "kill everything that tries to leave" quarantine, much less a more nuanced quarantine. Hell, Liberia's government seems to be teetering on the point of a straight up breakdown.
|
# ? Sep 6, 2014 18:07 |
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Just a reminder: 80 beds requires 230 support staff; 2,300 support staff for Monrovia. 800:2,300 isn't a sustainable case management load if it goes an order or two higher. 8,000:23,000, or in two to six months, 80,000:230,000. Sierra Leone issued a call for 23,000~ employes recently, with salary paid at Western rates. About $500/day (USD) for staff [including the 1/10 HCW contracting EBV and the $25,000 life insurance offered with an estimated CFR of 70%, could use an estimated rate for contact tracer infections and burial team infections], 500*23,000 = $11,500,000 daily direct (KPMG monitoring) salary costs in Sierra Leone for the next 6 months with the staffing levels required for September, or, $2,070,000,000 salary cost for the ebolavirus outbreak in Sierra Leone paid for by WHO. Does not include any costs other than wages and benefits paid directly to Leonese employes and monitored by KPMG, so I expect the salaries and insurance to actually go through. The SiTreps only go back to August 13th, but what I can tell cases tripled from w/e 8/16 to w/e 8/23 and have stayed at that level for the past 3 weeks.
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 01:01 |
|
Er, re: hypothetical quarentine, the rich not giving a gently caress about the poor won't take the form of expecting them to come in to work. They won't want infected poors breaking quarantine and Very Serious People will reassure them that shooting anyone who tries to is perfectly okay. They just won't give a gently caress if they lose their home because they missed too much work. E: expect right-wing media to depict Ebola patients (black people) as berserker zombies. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Sep 7, 2014 |
# ? Sep 7, 2014 09:15 |
|
quote:
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 12:01 |
|
Thanks, thats what I've suspected is happening. 8-10 days until an individual is contagious, 7-11 days until an individual is dead. New infections of non-HCW seem to be polarized towards the first 3 days of symptoms if taken to a hospital equipped for ebola isolation with procedures and PPE (not allowing churhgroups into the room to perform a healing ritual), to immediate family if left outside hospital until death, and to community upon death from burial ritual. E: Or, have a graph and explanation from this blog: http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com.au/2014/09/case-number-changes-between-ebola-virus.html?m=1 My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 7, 2014 |
# ? Sep 7, 2014 19:11 |
|
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/07/ebola-trial-vaccine-monkeys-ten-months-protect Really hope some of these work out. Hard to see any other realistic solutions right now.
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 19:19 |
|
Do you want me to continue to take the data down as this goes on?
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 21:38 |
|
Pillowpants posted:Do you want me to continue to take the data down as this goes on? Yes! Yes please, charts and graphs are the best, and you may well be the only one actually keeping score.
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 21:39 |
|
Pillowpants posted:Do you want me to continue to take the data down as this goes on? Its useful in the sense that it shows trends visually that would otherwise be hard to identify. Especially as PIDs aren't going to be public from this for decades.
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 21:50 |
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Erhiopia You have several times stated that Ethiopia would be a most likely next spread step from an outbreak in Nigeria. Would you care to elaborate on that as I find that intriguing given the distance between the countries.
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 23:13 |
|
sofokles posted:You have several times stated that Ethiopia would be a most likely next spread step from an outbreak in Nigeria. Would you care to elaborate on that as I find that intriguing given the distance between the countries. Sure. And apologies for the r where there should be a t; slippy fingers on my phone. So, Ethiopia is one of the larger national airline carriers for international travel in Africa. Most of their flights are intra-continental, whereas AirFrance and Lufthansa are mostly inter-continental. IMO, the screening process for EthiopianAir flights isn't as strict as for a European airline, nor are the standards observed on the flight. For instance, its more likely that EthiopianAir flights will have less resources available to their crews than other prestige carriers; practical terms, less defibrilators, less gloves and pukebags. If someone gets sick on an EthiopianAir flight, its more likely to be chalked up to another tropical disease than a European carrier; further, Ethiopian national reporting standards for sick passengers on airline flights isn't known for a reputation of meeting western standards. So the most likely intra-continental spread via airline routes is through prestige carriers that primarily operate crews accustomed to intra-continental, and not inter-continental, standards. Hence why Ethiopia and Ghana are at the highest risk for air importation of an index case. I'll send a text and see if I can find the model a friend worked on. Think of airlines without western standards of operation as the most likely to carry an index case without identifying the case soon enough to isolate and prevent an outbreak.
|
# ? Sep 7, 2014 23:24 |
|
Evilreaver posted:Yes! Yes please, charts and graphs are the best, and you may well be the only one actually keeping score. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm exhausted, but I'm not entirely sure why those 4 specific numbers are important when combined together?
|
# ? Sep 8, 2014 00:28 |
|
Surprised nobody mentioned that the US has headed MSF's call to send in Military assets. Not sure there is any details on numbers / units etc. The UK has also followed suit this afternoon as well, so there could be hope of this being stopped within the next 6-12 months. It is rather depressing how the rest of the world is basically ignoring it. edit: UK is going to build and man one 62 capacity treatment center. Just need another 20 more of them and they might have enough cover. Although given MSF is expecting the numbers in Liberia to be in the many thousands infected within weeks, it just shows you how much of a up hill struggle this is. ukle fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Sep 8, 2014 |
# ? Sep 8, 2014 18:12 |
|
Crossposting from GBS thread. Recommend to read in entirity.An email from WHO posted:
|
# ? Sep 8, 2014 22:34 |
|
This is an interesting pointquote:Second, far greater community engagement is the cornerstone of a more effective response. Where communities take charge, especially in rural areas, and put in place their own solutions and protective measures, Ebola transmission has slowed considerably. It's pretty clear that even with foreign groups coming in, at the current growth rate of infections, Liberia will never have enough hospital beds, let alone nurses and doctors, to treat all the cases. Training local community groups to handle quarantining and tracing of cases would be a huge help.
|
# ? Sep 8, 2014 23:37 |
|
Is there a good place to find a list of the Liberia sitreps so I can do what I am doing with Sierra Leone?
|
# ? Sep 9, 2014 01:05 |
|
Pillowpants posted:Is there a good place to find a list of the Liberia sitreps so I can do what I am doing with Sierra Leone? Good question - Yes, there is. http://reliefweb.int/updates?f%5B0%5D=field_source%3A2619 ReliefWeb is the site where WHO publishes official sitreps it has reviewed. E: Looking at Liberian SitRep 114, it looks like theres been a change in management for the better. More detailed report, more detailed needs, more detail pipeline info. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Sep 9, 2014 |
# ? Sep 9, 2014 01:23 |
|
ukle posted:MSF's call to send in Military assets. MSF asking for military involvement is a pretty telling indication of what a poo poo show this is. As an organization they avoid any involvement from government/military sources: they wouldn't take any money from any Nato or EU countries during the Kosovo air strikes. The only other time they've actually requested military involvement was to intervene in the Rwandan massacre.
|
# ? Sep 9, 2014 05:23 |
|
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/09/oxford-study-predicts-15-more-countries-are-at-risk-of-ebola-exposure/quote:According to the Oxford model, in addition to the seven countries who have reported Ebola outbreaks in this epidemic and in past outbreaks since the disease was identified 1976, 15 other countries are at risk. There are five known strains of Ebola, and the one currently causing the West African outbreak, Zaire, is the most virulent. The other strains, Sudan, Taï Forest and Bundibugyo, have caused contained outbreaks in Ivory Coast, Sudan, and Uganda in the past. And the Reston species has not caused any known outbreaks, according to the World Health Organization.
|
# ? Sep 9, 2014 22:37 |
|
Xandu posted:This is an interesting point Several of the doctors at my workplace head out to West Africa every couple of years to hold a three week clinic that trains "bush medics" who are taught to suture wounds, set bones, and the basics of infectious disease prevention and how to set up a quarantine. When this all kicked off, I wondered if those people would have any effect on slowing down the spread of the disease out in the hinterlands.
|
# ? Sep 9, 2014 22:42 |
|
Ebola Roulette posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/09/oxford-study-predicts-15-more-countries-are-at-risk-of-ebola-exposure/ Would dogs be in that animal list?
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 00:28 |
|
School Nickname posted:Would dogs be in that animal list? They captured and necropsied rats, bats, monkeys, and cane rats. That's not to say dogs couldn't carry it, just that they weren't checked.
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:23 |
|
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/09/gop-house-guts-white-houses-request-for-funds-to-fight-and-contain-ebola/ House Republicans have gutted a White House-sponsored bill that would direct funding to the fight to contain the hemorrhagic fever Ebola, which is raging out of control in multiple African countries. The Hill blog reported that a source familiar with the budget negotiations confirmed that House Appropriations Committee Chairman Hal Rogers (R-KY) will agree to provide only $40 million of the $88 million the Obama administration asked for in its 2015 budget.
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:26 |
|
Ebola Roulette posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/09/oxford-study-predicts-15-more-countries-are-at-risk-of-ebola-exposure/ You bénin isn't on that list
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:28 |
|
Slaan posted:You bénin isn't on that list If I remember correctly, you teach in Benin, right? I don't suppose you have PM or have another way to get in touch -- I work on Ugandan educational development and would be interested in picking your ear, except its a bit outside the bounds of this thread.
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 02:53 |
|
Ebola evacuations to US greater than previously known
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 03:31 |
|
No about it. One of the biggest sticking points in recruiting trained volunteers to go to the hotzone is an implicit guarantee of medevac if any symptoms develop or if exposure is known. I can PM you some interesting State cables on the subject if you have plat?
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 03:36 |
|
I really don't think this type of thing is necessarily such a great idea. US Hospitals are not good at stopping contagious pathogens.
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:07 |
|
Torpor posted:I really don't think this type of thing is necessarily such a great idea. US Hospitals are not good at stopping contagious pathogens. Yes they are.
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:15 |
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Yes they are. Yes, they are*. Extremely so, especially for Ebolavirus or anything that really, really scares HCWs no matter their experience or position. *as long as they have strict handwashing procedures which are followed and have a check-safe (whats the term for it?) to make sure everyone does it after every HCW-patient interaction. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Sep 10, 2014 |
# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:22 |
Torpor posted:I really don't think this type of thing is necessarily such a great idea. US Hospitals are not good at stopping contagious pathogens. These people are going into special isolation units designed to keep stuff like ebola under control. The hospitals that contain these isolation units are going to be extremely careful because of the risk to staff and patients. There is really very little risk as long as some fairly simple protocols are followed.
|
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:25 |
|
|
# ? Jun 7, 2024 03:29 |
|
The last isolation unit I was in at a hospital had a locked door, negative (or maybe positive, I can't remember) air flow, and nobody entered without wearing a mask and gloves (while also making sure I was wearing a mask). And that's just at an average hospital, the places these people are being evacuated to tend to have special wings to make sure there's absolutely no spread.My Imaginary GF posted:No about it. One of the biggest sticking points in recruiting trained volunteers to go to the hotzone is an implicit guarantee of medevac if any symptoms develop or if exposure is known. I can PM you some interesting State cables on the subject if you have plat? Yeah, this is why the Pentagon is opening up a hospital strictly for foreigners. It sounds bad, but it's actually really important, because you need to a way to treat these people, and evacuating them isn't cheap or always an option depending on how bad it gets.
|
# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:34 |