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Jesus Christ, Brown Moses. Stay anonymous and safe, man. This site has lost enough to violence.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:23 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 22:52 |
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Majorian posted:This is some of the most bizarre word salad I've ever read. Am I misreading it, or is the author basically just saying, "Nuh uh! That's not proof!" to Brown Moses' actual, tangible proof? Like, without elaborating on why he or she thinks it's not proof? Because the rest of his/her argument seems to hinge on that assertion. Hm? I did link to the article: http://vz.ru/politics/2014/9/9/704737.html . The passage where they straight up deny it is here: quote:В тексте приводится достаточное количество фотографий самой разнообразной техники и даже снимок принятия присяги, однако документальных подтверждений вины ополчения Донбасса (а уж тем более России) в статье нет. I can summarize the article for those too lazy to read broken English:
Brown Moses posted:A lot of the Russian stuff is being done by Russian speakers, so it's not an issue, and I can ask them whenever needed.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:30 |
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Vladimir Putin posted:That's not even an appropriate representation of WWII. Russia won but with like 14 million dead. I shouldn't be saying this to you, but the spin on WWII in modern Russian identity is overwhelmingly positive and centered on victory more than the cost. Also, please don't say "Russia won" --- there were plenty of non-Russians in Soviet Army, like, say, Ukrainians, something that the real Vladimir Putin would rather have people forget.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:38 |
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El Scotch posted:Well, are you on the dole? Notice how he avoided answering your first question. Clearly hiding something. Alert RT, we have confirmation!
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:48 |
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Come on, we all know the real question is: "Are you now, or have you ever been, a recipient of State Department grants? How about baked goods?!".
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 01:54 |
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OddObserver posted:I shouldn't be saying this to you, but the spin on WWII in modern Russian identity is overwhelmingly positive and centered on victory more than the cost. Also, please don't say "Russia won" --- there were plenty of non-Russians in Soviet Army, like, say, Ukrainians, something that the real Vladimir Putin would rather have people forget. Yeah, the Red Army that surrounded Berlin in 1945 included Ukrainians, Belarusians, Poles, and so on.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 02:06 |
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eigenstate posted:Hm? I did link to the article: http://vz.ru/politics/2014/9/9/704737.html . The passage where they straight up deny it is here: Yeah, no, I caught that, and thanks for translating it. I just wanted to make sure that they didn't have any real counterarguments to what Brown Moses posted beyond plugging their ears and going "LALALALA!"
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 02:16 |
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Majorian posted:Yeah, no, I caught that, and thanks for translating it. I just wanted to make sure that they didn't have any real counterarguments to what Brown Moses posted beyond plugging their ears and going "LALALALA!" Yeah but Brown Moses is just an internet nerd and RT are Real Journalists with credentials and education! There's no proof here!
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 02:21 |
Based on a profile by Dave Weigel a couple months back, RT liked to pose as a credible agency to new journalism school graduates and sucker them in. Only once they got there and started work would they realize it was a propaganda outfit, at which point they were often unhireable (and as I mentioned before, getting paid to recite propaganda, and having an interest in your own self-esteem, is a great way to start drinking the kool-aid). Other journalists and journalism schools started warning people about the entity so it became harder for them to
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 02:29 |
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On a cross-thread issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/w...WT.nav=top-news quote:Iran’s Talks With Russia May Strike at Sanctions Something I suspected that would happen (or at least would be an issue), isolation of Iran only effectively work as long as they didn't have a patron and they effectively may have one now. One thing is Russia certainly has the technology and equipment to make airstrikes difficult if not impossible, S-300/400 systems and SU-30s would make things messy. That said, it is mostly about leverage and what type of concessions the West would be interested in giving up, that said Obama especially may not have much to give. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 10, 2014 |
# ? Sep 10, 2014 02:54 |
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Are airstrikes even on the table anymore? I thought that was more or less past.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:22 |
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Dandywalken posted:Are airstrikes even on the table anymore? I thought that was more or less past. Well the question is if Iran can break out of sanctions, the West may scramble for some other form of leverage. They have been off the table for a while, but I suspect at least a discussion about them will come up. That said, with the situation in Iraq, it would actually be nuts especially since we are already devoting air assets to bomb what is still their enemy and cooperation with Baghdad would completely meltdown. In addition, Iran most likely has been beefing up their air defenses over time, and the US might actually have to try and achieve air superiority, I don't think a one off strike or cruise missiles would be enough. It just gets worse if Russia gives them more-modern equipment, modern Israeli/US F-16s and newer models of the SU-30 are pretty comparable matches.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 04:56 |
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Pellisworth posted:Yeah but Brown Moses is just an internet nerd and RT are Real Journalists with credentials and education! There's no proof here! I figured that's what it was, I just wanted to make sure.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 05:01 |
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Ardennes posted:Well the question is if Iran can break out of sanctions, the West may scramble for some other form of leverage. They have been off the table for a while, but I suspect at least a discussion about them will come up. I think SAMs would be more likely in the near term than aircraft. I'm not quite sure how long it takes to build a competent Su-30 squadron but for other aircraft types Russia has sometimes been kind of slow to build them in big numbers. edit: I think the newest Russian gear in the Iranian air force inventory right now is the MiG-29, not sure when they got those.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 05:03 |
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Ardennes posted:On a cross-thread issue: It certainly doesn't help to pile on new sanctions in the middle of negotiating about lifting them.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 05:11 |
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StandardVC10 posted:I think SAMs would be more likely in the near term than aircraft. I'm not quite sure how long it takes to build a competent Su-30 squadron but for other aircraft types Russia has sometimes been kind of slow to build them in big numbers. In the short term, certainly SAMs would be the effective way to negative a possible responsible. However, beyond new fighters, Russia reportedly has been helping modernized Iran's F-14s and once was working with them on a 4th generation fighter which supposedly became the Saeqeh. Certainly, active Russian assistance would allow the Iranians to accelerate their own fighter programs beyond buying Russian aircraft themselves. The MIG-29s were from the Soviets, I don't know if they have been upgraded or not. Ultimately, it is up to the US and how much they are going to responsible to Iran's possible leverage. If the US maintains a hardline, and keeps up ramping up sanctions while negotiations are happening, Iran may very well just go for plan B.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 06:02 |
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Has the thread discussed this already? This is a really underhanded move. http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/09/iss-astronauts-could-be-pawns-in-russia-ukraine-conflict/
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 06:34 |
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eigenstate posted:I hadn't yet watched the clip when I was translating the article, but it's amazing how in both cases Bellingcat is mentioned along with the same BBC article. At the same time, it isn't immediately apparent to me if or how RT.com and vzglyad.ru are so closely related. It's like peering through the looking glass of the Russian propaganda machine, where a memo ordering these two things that should be mentioned is disseminated to different news outlets. I also noticed some similarities in the reports. You may be on to something. However, to be fair I think we see as much similarity between various Western media outlets. The sad truth is that these days most reporters copy and paraphrase wire agency stories, press releases and each others' pieces all the time. I certainly notice that I'll often see surprisingly similar structure/wording between for example BBC and Guardian news stories (those are the ones I read most regularly). Of course, the TV report/interview and the column posted are more like 'opinion' pieces, so it's not quite the same, and therefore the similarities are more suspicious in terms of a propaganda line being taken. e: new thread title is amazing.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 06:35 |
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Bullfrog posted:Has the thread discussed this already? This is a really underhanded move. drat that's scummy. But we shouldn't have become 100% reliant on Russian space craft.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 07:22 |
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Fartmancer posted:I don't think Russia's going to be backing down any time soon.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:04 |
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Majorian posted:This is some of the most bizarre word salad I've ever read. Am I misreading it, or is the author basically just saying, "Nuh uh! That's not proof!" to Brown Moses' actual, tangible proof? Like, without elaborating on why he or she thinks it's not proof? Because the rest of his/her argument seems to hinge on that assertion. It's reassuring that this appears to be the only level of debate they can reach. That, and claiming everything is photoshoped.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:06 |
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Demiurge4 posted:drat that's scummy. But we shouldn't have become 100% reliant on Russian space craft. I think the big issue for Russia with their retaliatory actions is that they seem to be predicated on the idea that the world can't live without Russia. I think that it may cause the opposite result and drive home the fact that besides dropping nuclear bombs, Russia can't do much outside of its region except inconvenience people.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:09 |
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Also, they keep going on about how I published my piece before the MH17 report. So what? I'm not writing about anything that's discussed in the report, and I'm sure these media organisations are aware of the concept of publishing stories at a time when there's the most interest in the subject. Their faux astonishment such a thing is possible is comical.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:13 |
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confused posted:I think the big issue for Russia with their retaliatory actions is that they seem to be predicated on the idea that the world can't live without Russia. I think that it may cause the opposite result and drive home the fact that besides dropping nuclear bombs, Russia can't do much outside of its region except inconvenience people. Someone is going to make the point that in that scenario there's a chance that Russia will start dropping those bombs and therefore we should make sure not to hurt their feelings too much. But yes, geopolitically it would be nice to see the rest of the world show some backbone about extricating themselves from Russia's influence if this is how they're going to use it. Now if only certain European nations would get on board with that idea.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:15 |
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Dolash posted:Someone is going to make the point that in that scenario there's a chance that Russia will start dropping those bombs On whom, and for what reason?
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:22 |
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Dolash posted:Someone is going to make the point that in that scenario there's a chance that Russia will start dropping those bombs and therefore we should make sure not to hurt their feelings too much. But yes, geopolitically it would be nice to see the rest of the world show some backbone about extricating themselves from Russia's influence if this is how they're going to use it. Now if only certain European nations would get on board with that idea. Ugh in my opinion Europe is already antagonizing Russia way too much and forgetting that everything they do now will have long term consequences. I'd have much more preferred for Europe to negotiate deals with Russia and let it do whatever they wanted in Ukraine than what they do now. The end result will be the same anyway for Ukraine but at least in the long term we would have had better ties with Russia and less economic harshness down the drain. Ukraine is not part of NATO nor EU, Russia will do anything for it not to join either and noone is going to stop that except if we are willing to go for WW3 (I hope noone is). Russia is a local power but it's a power that is rising back and we may regret all this 20-30 years from now.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:22 |
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Brown Moses posted:Also, they keep going on about how I published my piece before the MH17 report. So what? I'm not writing about anything that's discussed in the report, and I'm sure these media organisations are aware of the concept of publishing stories at a time when there's the most interest in the subject. Their faux astonishment such a thing is possible is comical. To a naive or uneducated reader it sounds like you knew about it before the event was reported; further proof of the homonazi American conspiracy to shoot down MH17 and blame it on Russia. That's the insinuation I took from it at least. A lot of readers are probably not aware that the official report is a specific thing that is taking a long time to come out.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:31 |
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SA_Avenger posted:Ugh in my opinion Europe is already antagonizing Russia way too much and forgetting that everything they do now will have long term consequences. I'd have much more preferred for Europe to negotiate deals with Russia and let it do whatever they wanted in Ukraine than what they do now. The end result will be the same anyway for Ukraine but at least in the long term we would have had better ties with Russia and less economic harshness down the drain. Ukraine is not part of NATO nor EU, Russia will do anything for it not to join either and noone is going to stop that except if we are willing to go for WW3 (I hope noone is). Russia is a local power but it's a power that is rising back and we may regret all this 20-30 years from now. I know and all, but Jesus. The EU or NATO should seek to appease Russia despite its increasingly aggressive and nationalistic foreign policy because otherwise the Russians will be sad and in a few decades they might still be sore about not getting to invade their neighbors on a whim? Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Sep 10, 2014 |
# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:34 |
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confused posted:I think the big issue for Russia with their retaliatory actions is that they seem to be predicated on the idea that the world can't live without Russia. I think that it may cause the opposite result and drive home the fact that besides dropping nuclear bombs, Russia can't do much outside of its region except inconvenience people. The world can live without Russia, but I wouldn't minimize their strengths at this point in Europe, there is a reason why EU sanctions have been so light. In addition, Russia seems to have continuing if not increasing influence in the Middle East. Russia at this point has ties with Iran and Syria, and now Iraq and Egypt. Yeah, they aren't a super-power but they are a major power than does have influence outside the former Soviet Union.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:36 |
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Brown Moses posted:It's reassuring that this appears to be the only level of debate they can reach. That, and claiming everything is photoshoped. One thing this can mean is that they accept your premise from the evidence, they just think the evidence was fabricated. This sounds like they know their narrative doesn't have basis.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 08:40 |
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Ardennes posted:The world can live without Russia, but I wouldn't minimize their strengths at this point in Europe, there is a reason why EU sanctions have been so light.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 09:14 |
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Demiurge4 posted:drat that's scummy. But we shouldn't have become 100% reliant on Russian space craft. Considering we paid for the parts of the ISS they built, we should just respond by repossessing the Russian modules.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 09:14 |
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Raygereio posted:I'd say the fear of tanking EU nation's economies if they cut off Russia completely has more to do with that, then direct Russian influence. In a sense, that is still leverage Russia has on Europe, it is certainly more than a "inconvenience" even if Russian troops aren't marching across Frankfurt. There are real limits to what the Russians can do, but if they become a true pariah state it would certainly be very destabilizing for not just the former Soviet Union. quote:Considering we paid for the parts of the ISS they built, we should just respond by repossessing the Russian modules. The only way to get humans up there is with Russian spacecraft in the first place.
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 09:25 |
Ardennes posted:The only way to get humans up there is with Russian spacecraft in the first place. Isn't NASA's Commercial Crew Development program getting to the point where there'll be a commercial way to get crews to the ISS within the next year or two?
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 09:42 |
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Ardennes posted:In a sense, that is still leverage Russia has on Europe, it is certainly more than a "inconvenience" even if Russian troops aren't marching across Frankfurt. There are real limits to what the Russians can do, but if they become a true pariah state it would certainly be very destabilizing for not just the former Soviet Union. You mean moonraker lied to me?!
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 09:49 |
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Look out Batka, Putin is muscling in on your turf. http://belarusdigest.com/story/no-longer-last-dictatorship-europe-19253
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 11:58 |
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Nato expansion unlikely before late 2015 Last paragraph: quote:Asked by EUobserver if Rasmussen’s mention of late-2015 means no new members until that time, the Nato official said “unless of course Finland or Sweden opt to join … if they do, they would walk in within a week”. I certainly hope Finland & Sweden will decide to apply sometime soon...
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 12:37 |
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Ardennes posted:The only way to get humans up there is with Russian spacecraft in the first place. Can they even launch them without using Ukrainian rockets yet?
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 12:59 |
OddObserver posted:Can they even launch them without using Ukrainian rockets yet?
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 13:03 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 22:52 |
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Really? Soon noone will be able to go to space?
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# ? Sep 10, 2014 13:37 |