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Malcolm XML posted:SATA Express is the physical spec (the wires) NVMe is the host controller interface (the software API) Not sure if am following, this is how I'm understanding it... Currently, we have a combination of SATA and AHCI. SATA is the physical standard while AHCI is the logical standard which allows you to communicate with the host but I don't understand what happens after this? SATA -> AHCI -> ??? Now, we're getting SATA Express and NVMe. I was under the impression that SATA-Express is a direct connection to the PCI-Express bus but it can't communicate without a logical layer and AHCI is needed. We have a path of SATA Express -> AHCI -> PCI-Express With NVMe, we can simply skip over this physical connection and connect devices directly into PCI-Express and they'll be recognized by the host. NVMe -> PCI-Express... Am I getting this correctly?
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Sep 10, 2014 17:12
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Frickin' sweet, ASUS is cutting prices for motherboards across...the board. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140909PB200.html?mod=2
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Sep 10, 2014 17:31
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Tab8715 posted:Not sure if am following, this is how I'm understanding it... SATA -> (AHCI or IDE compatibility) -> *the computer* As in, the OS and firmware have drivers so they know how to deal with an AHCI device. SATA Express is this: (SATA or PCIe) -> (AHCI or NVMe) -> *the computer* A PCIe slot is: PCIe -> (AHCI or NVMe or SCSI [of the serial-attached variety]) -> *the computer* The drive's controller determines the protocol used. Pre-NVMe PCIe drives plug a controller in front of the NAND that responds as a SATA or SAS controller with attached SSD devices (or a single-volume RAID array thereof). NVMe as a protocol is designed to allow single-chip SSD controllers that accept PCIe on one side, control NAND on the other, and don't have to implement or pretend to be a SATA or SAS bus in between.
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Sep 10, 2014 17:37
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Okay, that makes more sense but then what's the point of SATA Express? NVMe is makes a hell of a lot more...
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Sep 10, 2014 18:04
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NVMe is a software layer. SATA Express is a plug. You can plug a drive that uses NVMe into a SATA Express plug.
Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 18:07
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Tab8715 posted:Okay, that makes more sense but then what's the point of SATA Express? NVMe is makes a hell of a lot more... What you should be asking is what is the point of sata express when we have m.2 wish is (potential) faster, smaller, and cableless. The answer to that is that m.2 is probably better for your system drive or in situations where space is a premium like laptops. Sata express will still be used for disk arrays, enterprise storage, late capacity drives, etc.
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Sep 10, 2014 18:32
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Lowen SoDium posted:Sata express will still be used for disk arrays, enterprise storage, late capacity drives, etc. 
Welmu fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 21:16
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nvm
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Sep 10, 2014 21:28
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Welmu posted:Seems unlikely since Intel's latest enterprise-class PciE SSDs are vastly superior to SATA Express: I meant Enterprise storage as in big disk array and SAN stuff like IBM XIV storage systems and the like. Most of it will still be SAS and/or SATA because of the large number of (non-SSD) disk involved. I don't see M.2 taking over that space in the near future.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:28
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e? .. Sorry
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Sep 10, 2014 21:43
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Welmu posted:Seems unlikely since Intel's latest enterprise-class PciE SSDs are vastly superior to SATA Express: Vastly superior... They're using four PCIe lanes instead of two. In terms of technical complexity, that's pretty trivial.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:45
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If I'm looking at the specifications correctly, couldn't a single P3700 potentially replace some SANs? I'm a little storage illiterate...
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Sep 10, 2014 21:49
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You're not far off. A single SSD can replace dozens of 15K RPM hard drives in terms of IOPS. Heck, even a consumer SSD - a "mere" 40K IOPS is still outrageous when 15K RPM spinners can pull 200-250 each. You'd still want some kind of fault-tolerant redundancy, though, so maybe use two in RAID 1. 
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Sep 10, 2014 22:02
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Tab8715 posted:If I'm looking at the specifications correctly, couldn't a single P3700 potentially replace some SANs? I'm a little storage illiterate... Maybe in terms of IOPS, but some of our SANs are hundreds of terabytes. There is a balance to be had between IO, capacity, redundancy, and cost. SSD hasn't quite gotten there for most enterprises when it comes to capacity and cost compared to spinning media. I will stop derailing now.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:30
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Lowen SoDium posted:What you should be asking is what is the point of sata express when we have m.2 wish is (potential) faster, smaller, and cableless. Sata express is just pcie over cables. It's basically thunderbolt sans displayport and with a new thing to make cables cheaper.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:39
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Tab8715 posted:If I'm looking at the specifications correctly, couldn't a single P3700 potentially replace some SANs? I'm a little storage illiterate... Yes, I am hoping replace a $300k SAN with ~10 1.6TB P3700's. Based on Intel's track record with SSD's however I expect them to be 6 months late to market, and the largest capacity to never actually be sold. Likewise I feel dubious the P3500 will ever appear in sufficient quantity to meet corporate demand, let alone enthusiast. e: quote:Maybe in terms of IOPS, but some of our SANs are hundreds of terabytes. There is a balance to be had between IO, capacity, redundancy, and cost. SSD hasn't quite gotten there for most enterprises when it comes to capacity and cost compared to spinning media. Not a derail in my opinion. You're certainly right these won't replace all sans, but they will significantly shake up the ultra high performance side of things (which is what my san is for).
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Sep 11, 2014 03:48
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SamDabbers posted:For home server use the E3 is probably the better bang for the buck, even with the higher power consumption.
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Sep 11, 2014 03:56
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Combat Pretzel posted:I've just run into a review of the eight core Avoton (and mainboard) on Anandtech, it drew 50W in idle People on various storage related forums are raving about the Avoton. I guess I don't get it. - out-of-band management - twice as many NICs - twice as many SATA ports - Max RAM is 2x any socket 1150 mini ITX board (+ECC) - peak power use is 70W, vs 150W for the z87 system. Those power draw numbers don't agree with other ones, eg ServeTheHome's C2750 board review here, and that Anantech review of the z87 board also included an dedicated gaming video card. Anyway, these differences are why the DIY NAS/storage people are interested about mini ITX Avonton boards (also the supermicro version will take up 64GB RAM). Getting similar functionality on a socket 1150 mini ITX board means you'll be looking at something with a C226 chipset and an extra NIC or storage card in the PCI-e slot (which is what some of the storage people seem to be doing). Mr Chips fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 07:14
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Intel let AnandTech check out a reference tablet design with a 4.5W Core M 5Y70.  The Surface Pro 3 and 2 in those samples use the same 15W TDP Haswell Core i5. Click through, it's even more impressive when you see sizes and weights.
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Sep 11, 2014 14:24
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http://techreport.com/news/27041/asus-dual-xeon-workstation-board-exudes-glorious-excess This would make one hell of a (frivolous) gamin' rig! 
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Sep 12, 2014 01:55
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I like the game suggestions in the comments, "Spot the m.2 slot."
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Sep 12, 2014 02:06
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I never even considered dual CPU gaming but after a quick Google search that might actually be worse than single cpu
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Sep 12, 2014 22:32
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Am I the only one who really doesn't like those tarted up XXTREME GAMER mainboard designs? I was looking for a simple beige computer case the other day. Just doesn't exist anymore.
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Sep 12, 2014 22:38
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1gnoirents posted:I never even considered dual CPU gaming but after a quick Google search that might actually be worse than single cpu Yeah NUMA/IPIs gently caress with apps not written to take deal with them.
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Sep 12, 2014 22:51
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Police Automaton posted:Am I the only one who really doesn't like those tarted up XXTREME GAMER mainboard designs? I was looking for a simple beige computer case the other day. Just doesn't exist anymore. And yes beige cases are extremely rare these days, but plain black cases are super common.
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Sep 12, 2014 23:03
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Police Automaton posted:Am I the only one who really doesn't like those tarted up XXTREME GAMER mainboard designs? I was looking for a simple beige computer case the other day. Just doesn't exist anymore. If you don't want to look at the motherboard, get a case without a window. As for beige cases, people will yearn for the weirdest poo poo, apparently. There are plenty of decent and plain black cases available these days, and I'd gladly take them over the cheap and nasty old beige towers of yore with 80mm fan holes, restrictive vents, sharp edges and bundled fire hazard PSUs.
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Sep 12, 2014 23:07
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I think real beige would be fine. However I think the "pre old brittle plastic" color deserves to be gone
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Sep 12, 2014 23:15
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Not even mainly talking about the color, just some professional looking computer case that doesn't look like it's something that should stand in a kids bedroom. Outside of OEM this just doesn't seem to exist. In the end I found one (black and silver, white/beige was impossible) but it took me a ridiculous three days. Does ASUS still use marketing speak like "military grade"?
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Sep 12, 2014 23:18
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I've been considering putting an mITX w/295x2 rig into a 2004-era Compaq Presario case, or a 1995-era "White Tower". Just for the lols at LAN parties.
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Sep 12, 2014 23:49
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Police Automaton posted:Does ASUS still use marketing speak like "military grade"? I think that's MSI's marketing speak, but yeah, they all still do that.
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Sep 13, 2014 00:04
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Police Automaton posted:Not even mainly talking about the color, just some professional looking computer case that doesn't look like it's something that should stand in a kids bedroom. Outside of OEM this just doesn't seem to exist. In the end I found one (black and silver, white/beige was impossible) but it took me a ridiculous three days. What's unprofessional about a plain black or plain white rectangle? Fractal design, Nanoxia, corsair, and bitfenix all make perfectly professional cases that match that description.
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Sep 13, 2014 00:29
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I'd love to see somebody try to sell real military grade hardware to gamers. Not in the certification sense but just actually bothering to construct the box, board, wiring harnesses etc. to requirements for gear which gets mounted in a tank or whatever. Hello ugly green painted aluminum boxes with 1/4 inch thick walls and sealed Cannon type cylindrical connectors! Good luck dragging that poo poo to a LAN party. (Also good luck getting gamers to pay at least 10x for everything while getting lower specs because it has to be super rugged.)
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Sep 13, 2014 00:30
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The Lord Bude posted:What's unprofessional about a plain black or plain white rectangle? Fractal design, Nanoxia, corsair, and bitfenix all make perfectly professional cases that match that description. I know that now too, it was just ridiculous how hard it was to find to begin with. Lots of these things still come dangerously close to looking like a DVD-Player/Stereo, bright LEDs are still a given (and if it's even an overtly bright blue Power LED) and the prices often are just ridiculous. BobHoward posted:I'd love to see somebody try to sell real military grade hardware to gamers. Not in the certification sense but just actually bothering to construct the box, board, wiring harnesses etc. to requirements for gear which gets mounted in a tank or whatever. Hello ugly green painted aluminum boxes with 1/4 inch thick walls and sealed Cannon type cylindrical connectors! Good luck dragging that poo poo to a LAN party. Even if you just go industrial you might look at some very old-rear end machines. The combination 486s/DOS can still be found commonly in industrial environments, and the trade with 68k-architecture CPUs especially in the aerospace industry is still alive and well. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 00:47
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Sep 13, 2014 01:12
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I don't have newegg here, and most of these cases are MicroATX and Towers as opposed to Desktop and FullATX what I was searching. Point well taken tho, you may stop sperging.
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Sep 13, 2014 01:23
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Police Automaton posted:I don't have newegg here
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Sep 13, 2014 01:38
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Cardboard Box A posted:Oh that explains it Nah, what mostly explains it was that I was looking for a Desktop case actually, somehow they seemed to just completely fall out of fashion around the early 00s, (Outside of MiniATX and all those other small form-factors, where it seems to be really easy to find one) but this is not the case thread so lets end it here.
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Sep 13, 2014 01:43
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Police Automaton posted:Nah, what mostly explains it was that I was looking for a Desktop case actually, somehow they seemed to just completely fall out of fashion around the early 00s, (Outside of MiniATX and all those other small form-factors, where it seems to be really easy to find one) but this is not the case thread so lets end it here. You want a full size tower? That and the full size desktop form factor are extremely out of favor now that people don't need a bunch of PCI and ISA cards. If you want a desktop case, you can run extremely powerful hardware in something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163256
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Sep 13, 2014 02:09
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If I had a mini-ITX board I could have had even a beige case I found on eBay.
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Sep 13, 2014 02:15
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