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Uroboros posted:Doesn't Hyperion specifically mention how Space Marines are essentially stunted in development, which gives rise to his thought that Space Marines aren't humans made into weapons, but instead weapons with a human soul? That's Grimaldus, from Helsreach.
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Sep 10, 2014 19:58
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Is the Dark Eldar trilogy by Andy Chambers okay?
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Sep 10, 2014 20:16
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Sramaker posted:Is the Dark Eldar trilogy by Andy Chambers okay? It's bad.
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Sep 10, 2014 20:17
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It's bad. How much bad?
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Sep 10, 2014 21:09
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It's bad.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:41
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Sephyr posted:Are there any other books that expand more on the whole "Astartes as stunted manchildren" theme? Wrath Of Iron explores space marine psyche to an extent and contrasts it with their regular human allies but it's pretty specific to the Iron Hands, their cyber-body dismorphia and their indifference/contempt for the people they "protect".
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Sep 10, 2014 21:42
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Sramaker posted:How much bad? Take a guy who's already bad at characterization and dialogue and let him write Dark Eldar, it's pretty much as bad as you'd expect.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:18
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Take a guy who's already bad at characterization and dialogue and let him write Dark Eldar, it's pretty much as bad as you'd expect. Oh. Was thee ever anything at least decent written in the Black Library about non-humans then?
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Sep 10, 2014 22:38
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I really liked the brief characterization of the Plague Marines in Blood of Asaheim. The main plague champion came across paradoxically as an ancient knight from legend who after 10 thousand years is just so old and tired of the fighting that he just wants it to end. He puts up some brief bravado and 'we meet at last, hero' talk but then quickly becomes tired of the charade that he's probably repeated hundreds and hundreds of times before and just kills the Space Wolf he's fighting and moves on with no shits given. The fact that any 'original' Traitor marine is still fighting in the 41st millenium, warp-time or no should be characterized more like that plague champion, who himself is a literal embodiment of inevitability and decay. How long can you actually keep fighting after ten millenia before not really giving a poo poo anymore about the Imperium which you left behind all that time ago? The Word Bearers have their holy crusade explanation, which is probably a big reason why they've maintained their cohesion and direction for as long as they have in comparison to other legions, but I'll be looking forward to ADB possibly expanding on the personalities of Chaos Marines and the effect of time and the warp on them more as the Black Legion series continues.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:41
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Sramaker posted:Oh. Was thee ever anything at least decent written in the Black Library about non-humans then?
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Sep 10, 2014 22:54
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maev posted:
Amongst my own personal head canon for 40k, the Chaos marines are the Chaos gods favourite toys, which they like to play with Greek god style. So they bring the more interesting ones back to life, because the games more fun that way. So for example Talos and the rest of his Night Lords have been wiped out a dozen times or more. They just get brought back to life 500 years later on the other side of the Galaxy, with suitably edited memories.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:12
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The thing about the Chaos gods is that they really don't give two shits about their worshipers, including Space Marines. They'll favor a champion for a while, but they get bored and move on. The great thing about the warp is that because of its, well, warping ability, you can enter, exit and die, but still be alive because that "you" in the warp left and died in the distant future. It's the ultimate in time/space fuckery - Schrodinger's Traitor Marine, both simultaneously alive and dead.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:30
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Deptfordx posted:Amongst my own personal head canon for 40k, the Chaos marines are the Chaos gods favourite toys, which they like to play with Greek god style. So they bring the more interesting ones back to life, because the games more fun that way. So for example Talos and the rest of his Night Lords have been wiped out a dozen times or more. They just get brought back to life 500 years later on the other side of the Galaxy, with suitably edited memories. Kharne is like this for real. I really do like that theres a whole interplay between the ancient chaos marines of the first legions still running around and loving poo poo up and their newer brothers, as well as the emperors finest. Insults like "thin blood" and "children" just do it for me. like bitch ive been here for 10,000 years, i pissed and poo poo across the cosmos with the emperor, come at me.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:34
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I personally like to think more Xom than Makhleb myself.
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Sep 11, 2014 03:01
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Waroduce posted:Kharne is like this for real. Has this been specifically stated? I missed it if so. Lucius is the only one who I think they've specifically talked about this sort of reincarnation (okay, granted, he doesn't wait 500 years, but the general gist of 'chaos god is amused, wants him to stick around').
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Sep 11, 2014 04:33
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maev posted:The fact that any 'original' Traitor marine is still fighting in the 41st millenium, warp-time or no should be characterized more like that plague champion, who himself is a literal embodiment of inevitability and decay. How long can you actually keep fighting after ten millenia before not really giving a poo poo anymore about the Imperium which you left behind all that time ago? The Word Bearers have their holy crusade explanation, which is probably a big reason why they've maintained their cohesion and direction for as long as they have in comparison to other legions, but I'll be looking forward to ADB possibly expanding on the personalities of Chaos Marines and the effect of time and the warp on them more as the Black Legion series continues. There's a neat bit of fiction in one of the original Epic books about a Thousand Sons sorcerer going over his memories. He's been alive for so long that he can't contain everything, so he carefully selects what to remember, gives them an iconic representation and places them in a mental museum. All so he doesn't go completely mad from the pressure of 10,000 years of existence. EDIT: I went looking for this, and it's actually from the 2nd Ed Wargear book, the character is named Karlsen and his memory ritual "The Dark Communion" Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 11:43
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JerryLee posted:Has this been specifically stated? I missed it if so. Lucius is the only one who I think they've specifically talked about this sort of reincarnation (okay, granted, he doesn't wait 500 years, but the general gist of 'chaos god is amused, wants him to stick around'). Idk about Lucius, and Im at work, and I cant look it up right now, but it is canon Kharne was resurrected by the blood god. I think on two separate occasions unless im splitting a single event in my memory by accident. The first was on terra, as the world eaters battled along the battlements of the imperial palace and infront of eternity gate, he fell, presumed dead, riddled with wounds and no vitals. His brothers carried him aboard a dropship in hasty retreat and as they fled he returned to life. The second time (or possibly the cause of the first) I remember him being run over by a tank of some sort and just being like 'nah im good'
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Sep 11, 2014 14:03
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Waroduce posted:Idk about Lucius, and Im at work, and I cant look it up right now, but it is canon Kharne was resurrected by the blood god. I think on two separate occasions unless im splitting a single event in my memory by accident. The first was on terra, as the world eaters battled along the battlements of the imperial palace and infront of eternity gate, he fell, presumed dead, riddled with wounds and no vitals. His brothers carried him aboard a dropship in hasty retreat and as they fled he returned to life. For the second that was at Istvaan, he gets run over by a land raider and impaled on the plough spikes. Betrayer opens with the apothecary saving him
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Sep 11, 2014 14:57
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This isn't BL, but if you have even a passing interest in Fantasy, you should probably take a look at the WFB End Times: Nagash book that recently came out. It's freaking awesome.
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Sep 11, 2014 19:23
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:There's a neat bit of fiction in one of the original Epic books about a Thousand Sons sorcerer going over his memories. He's been alive for so long that he can't contain everything, so he carefully selects what to remember, gives them an iconic representation and places them in a mental museum. All so he doesn't go completely mad from the pressure of 10,000 years of existence.
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Sep 11, 2014 20:16
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Arquinsiel posted:That is a really great story alright. There was some solid stuff in those books. That was one of the only things that I didn't like about the Night Lords. Since they've been in and out of the warp so much, only a century or 2 has passed for them since the Heresy rather then the 10,000 for everyone else. So much of the other Chaos fiction is "10,000 years later" and doesn't mention any time dilation or any other warp space weirdness wrt time passed. Night Lords was still great, and the perspective of soldiers who fought in the Great Crusade, brutalized enemies of the Emperor, and ended up on the wrong side of history was really fun to see from a good writer, but the massive time difference isn't mentioned much other then "We've been wasting centuries with petty attacks and subsistence survival raids, we are better then this"
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Sep 11, 2014 23:33
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I almost brought the Night Lords Omnibus but then i remembered what i read about them in this thread so i didn't buy it, also the fact i already brought a bunch of Warhammer novels five days earlier so i got myself some Dune novels instead.
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Sep 12, 2014 00:38
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Sramaker posted:I almost brought the Night Lords Omnibus but then i remembered what i read about them in this thread so i didn't buy it, also the fact i already brought a bunch of Warhammer novels five days earlier so i got myself some Dune novels instead. But...but the thread loves those books. It's almost completely positive about the Night Lords books, isn't it?  e:sp jng2058 fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 00:41
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Sramaker posted:I almost brought the Night Lords Omnibus but then i remembered what i read about them in this thread so i didn't buy it, also the fact i already brought a bunch of Warhammer novels five days earlier so i got myself some Dune novels instead. You might have read someone like me talking how Talos is a bit of a whiny irritating character or the author overdoing some personality traits but anything like that is just nitpicking (its what nerds love to do, especially over things they like) over a broadly great book series which you should buy.
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Sep 12, 2014 00:46
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Sramaker posted:I almost brought the Night Lords Omnibus but then i remembered what i read about them in this thread so i didn't buy it, also the fact i already brought a bunch of Warhammer novels five days earlier so i got myself some Dune novels instead. Plz buy the book
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Sep 12, 2014 00:58
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maev posted:You might have read someone like me talking how Talos is a bit of a whiny irritating character or the author overdoing some personality traits but anything like that is just nitpicking (its what nerds love to do, especially over things they like) over a broadly great book series which you should buy. I also read about in here: https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Main_Page (It's like TVtropes if TVtropes had people in charge that were competent and didn't tolerate creepy poo poo) What i meant is i didn't buy the Omnibus because i wasn't interested to buy it this time, i wanted to get something else this time.
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Sep 12, 2014 01:07
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Sramaker posted:I almost brought the Night Lords Omnibus but then i remembered what i read about them in this thread so i didn't buy it, also the fact i already brought a bunch of Warhammer novels five days earlier so i got myself some Dune novels instead. I won't be able to pass judgment on the wisdom of your decision until you say which Dune novels you got instead.
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Sep 12, 2014 01:17
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Cream_Filling posted:I won't be able to pass judgment on the wisdom of your decision until you say which Dune novels you got instead. Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune.
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Sep 12, 2014 01:20
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'God Emperor'? Time for a GW lawsuit.
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Sep 12, 2014 01:59
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maev posted:'God Emperor'? Time for a GW lawsuit. In what year was 40k created? Cause i don't see GW suing over the title of a book made in '81 by a man from who they took inspiration for their stuff. (Yes i know you weren't serious)
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Sep 12, 2014 03:08
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Sramaker posted:Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. Eh ok not so bad then, though I still thinkt he first one was the best by far. As some friendly advice, do NOT under any circumstances read past the first 5 or so. God save you if you ever stumble upon the Brian Herbert ones - just pretend they don't exist.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:16
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Sramaker posted:Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. Stop after God Emperor. Do not continue. God Emperor is my favorite of the series, but things get really weird and bad after that.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:16
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Cream_Filling posted:Eh ok not so bad then, though I still thinkt he first one was the best by far. Safety Factor posted:Stop after God Emperor. Do not continue. God Emperor is my favorite of the series, but things get really weird and bad after that. Okay can you precise why?
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Sep 12, 2014 03:18
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Sramaker posted:Okay can you precise why? Well, the last two books get into things like space-ninja-sex-nuns raping an eight year old clone to bring back its memories. Frank Herbert got weird. And his son's been riding his coattails ever since. Don't get me wrong, Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, and God Emperor of Dune make a fantastic series. The other two don't really add much to them and just aren't worth reading.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:53
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Safety Factor posted:Well, the last two books get into things like space-ninja-sex-nuns raping an eight year old clone to bring back its memories
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Sep 12, 2014 03:58
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PrBacterio posted:You know maybe saying this makes me into some kind of monster or something but that sounds absolutely loving hilarious. Yes it does. 40k related: Are Ahriman: Exile, Faith and Fire, Hammer and Anvil, Blood of Asaheim, Battle of the Fang good?
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Sep 12, 2014 04:26
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is the word bearers trilogy bad?
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Sep 12, 2014 04:44
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Sramaker posted:Yes it does. I've read Ahriman: Exile, Blood of Asaheim, and Battle of the Fang, and found all of them good reads. I think my preferred priority would be Battle of the Fang > Ahriman:Exile > Blood of Asaheim, but you probably can't go wrong with any of them. Waroduce posted:is the word bearers trilogy bad? I didn't find it bad, so much as it was kind of...bland? There's plenty of Word Bearers being all "look at us we're so Chaosy" and building giant towers of flesh and whatnot, but nothing really stuck with me, excepting one pretty good instance of one character loving another over at the end of the last book.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:55
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Waroduce posted:is the word bearers trilogy bad? It was okay despite being bland.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:57
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I got what I expected and enjoyed it.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:14
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