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Ytlaya posted:After posting in this other thread (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3656060) about making just ~31k (maybe 32k now, I work at a state university and get "inflation raises") with 4 years of programming/web development experience Cicero said to post about it here so I figured I would*. Part of the reason why I've never requested a raise is that I know I'm not a good programmer. Yeah, your code sucks, but everyone's code sucks, especially including a person's own code when they look back on it. Yours may suck more than many, but it doesn't suck as much as some and you're underpaid.
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Sep 8, 2014 21:35
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Ytlaya posted:After posting in this other thread (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3656060) about making just ~31k (maybe 32k now, I work at a state university and get "inflation raises") with 4 years of programming/web development experience Cicero said to post about it here so I figured I would*. Part of the reason why I've never requested a raise is that I know I'm not a good programmer. This isn't just me being humble or something; I'm pretty clearly not talented at all and mostly stopped improving after my first year or so. I also worked with this really skilled consultant over Skype for a few months and he would frequently get very frustrated with me. It's honestly been pretty depressing for me, because I always learned new things fast (I seriously gained probably 80% of my current ability in just a couple months) and just sort of assumed while growing up and in college "if I spent years doing this I'd surely be totally awesome at it!" Working with that consultant made me feel like the dumbest fucker alive. We have bad coders and no one gets paid less than 60k. Go get a raise, I don't care how bad you are.
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Sep 8, 2014 23:03
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Hey guys, any tips on asking my employer to let me work from home permanently and move? Currently, most of my team works remotely 3 or 4 days per week, and I've done 2 separate week-long trips back to my home state but still worked remotely (contractor; no PTO). My actual boss + senior half of my team works in a different state, there's only 1 general IT manager in my office who occasionally sets up meetings just to check up on what we've been doing. So overall, I don't think it's really necessary that I need to be able to come into the office. I'm just skeptical because I feel like I don't really have a good reason for this request-- I moved here solely because I have one good friend out in this state, but a year later I desperately miss my old friends and family and am generally unhappy with where I live, but I don't want to leave this job because I do enjoy it for the most part.
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Sep 9, 2014 02:03
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I recently graduated with a degree in biochemistry and I work for a biotech as a marketing coordinator. I learned Python early this year and fell in love with it. I've automated enough of my old job that now I code for the rest of my team almost every day. The only formal computer science training was a that MIT MOOC but I'm pretty convinced that I would like to make my living programming. Since I already have a bachelor's, would it make more sense for me to try to pursue an Associate's at the local polytechnic or reach for another Bachelor's/attempt a Master's without the CS background? Should I forego further accreditation and continue to just read books and take open courses?
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Sep 9, 2014 02:38
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TheOtherContraGuy posted:I recently graduated with a degree in biochemistry and I work for a biotech as a marketing coordinator. I learned Python early this year and fell in love with it. I've automated enough of my old job that now I code for the rest of my team almost every day. The only formal computer science training was a that MIT MOOC but I'm pretty convinced that I would like to make my living programming. Yeah, just keep programming and looking for a job. The fact that you enjoy what you do and are self motivated gives you a big leg up. Make a resume and start applying to places, emphasize your skills and background. The first couple interviews you do may suck, but you'll probably fill the gaps in your knowledge pretty quickly.
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Sep 9, 2014 02:43
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TheOtherContraGuy posted:I recently graduated with a degree in biochemistry and I work for a biotech as a marketing coordinator. I learned Python early this year and fell in love with it. I've automated enough of my old job that now I code for the rest of my team almost every day. The only formal computer science training was a that MIT MOOC but I'm pretty convinced that I would like to make my living programming. Tres Burritos posted:Yeah, just keep programming and looking for a job. The fact that you enjoy what you do and are self motivated gives you a big leg up. Make a resume and start applying to places, emphasize your skills and background. The first couple interviews you do may suck, but you'll probably fill the gaps in your knowledge pretty quickly. I'd agree with this, but mainly because that's what I did. I have a degree in Materials Engineering, but after working for about a year (and writing a bunch of internal applications in my free time at work) I applied to a few software companies just for the hell of it and was offered a job. Best career decision I've made yet. If it was just you coding, make sure to mention in interviews that you did the requirements gathering, design, development, and testing for all of your applications. Use the fact that you learned a programming language to automate your old job as a way to emphasize how self-driven and resourceful you are.
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Sep 9, 2014 03:16
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My wife wrote me a generic cover letter that I could plug in a few details relevant to the job I am applying for and be done with it. Here I genericized it, so anyone can use it just by replacing the stuff in square brackets (I can provide a Word doc if needed): [YOUR NAME] [YOUR ADDRESS LINE 1] [YOUR ADDRESS LINE 2] [YOUR PHONE NUMBER] [YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS] [TODAY’S DATE] [COMPANY NAME] [COMPANY ADDRESS] [COMPANY ADDRESS] Dear Madam or Sir, I found your posting for [TYPE OF POSITION] position on [NAME OF WEBSITE YOU FOUND THE POSITION ON]. I am excited about an opportunity to help [NAME OF COMPANY OR TEAM] improve its [JOB RESPONSIBILITIES]. My previous experience includes working [SOMETHING YOU WORKED ON], specifically how [SPECIFIC DETAIL ABOUT WHAT YOU WORKED ON THAT’S RELEVANT TO THIS APPLICATION]. This project enabled me to [DO SOMETHING RELEVANT]. As a result, I learned how [SOMETHING YOU LEARNED HOW TO DO OR GAINED MORE EXPERIENCE IN]. It was this experience [EXPERIENCE YOU MENTIONED IN THE PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH] that prepared me for my most recent job experience as a software engineer at [OTHER JOB/COMPANY]. I [SOMETHING YOU DID AT YOUR LAST JOB]. [ANOTHER SENTENCE ABOUT WHAT YOU DID AT YOUR LAST JOB] I believe my background and skills can be beneficial to [NAME OF COMPANY]. If you would like to discuss my qualifications further, I can be reached at [PHONE NUMBER] or at my e-mail, [EMAIL ADDRESS, DUH] Sincerely, [YOUR NAME]
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Sep 9, 2014 03:33
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Bognar posted:I'd agree with this, but mainly because that's what I did. I have a degree in Materials Engineering, but after working for about a year (and writing a bunch of internal applications in my free time at work) I applied to a few software companies just for the hell of it and was offered a job. Best career decision I've made yet. This is good to know. Thanks!
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Sep 9, 2014 03:43
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Ytlaya posted:Part of the reason why I've never requested a raise is that I know I'm not a good programmer. This isn't just me being humble or something; I'm pretty clearly not talented at all and mostly stopped improving after my first year or so. I also worked with this really skilled consultant over Skype for a few months and he would frequently get very frustrated with me. It's honestly been pretty depressing for me, because I always learned new things fast (I seriously gained probably 80% of my current ability in just a couple months) and just sort of assumed while growing up and in college "if I spent years doing this I'd surely be totally awesome at it!" Working with that consultant made me feel like the dumbest fucker alive. As others have said, there are many programmers much worse than you who do nothing but write bugs and poo poo up the code base and they all make at least double what you do. Don't let being undeserving get in the way of asking for money. I'd question the brilliance of this consultant who was constantly getting frustrated with you. When I have to work with someone who knows nothing, I try to teach them. If I can't teach them, I go around them. If I can't figure out how to go around them, then I"m not as smart as I thought. Your code doesn't look particularly bad to me. It looks like normal scientist code: fairly linear, but the problems generally aren't amenable to a lot of reuse and don't need to run fast. Do you want to get better? Introspection is key. You say that it's too long and that's bad. How do you know what's too long? Why is being too long bad? Instead of hating your code, try to articulate to yourself what you dislike about it, why that dislike is justified, and what the characteristics of better code would be. Then fix the code. Sometimes we write gross code because it's a quick one-shot task and it doesn't matter that it's bad. Sometimes you have a problem that has no elegant algorithm.
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Sep 9, 2014 04:43
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So, I'm a guy who has two humanities bachelor's degrees and a dead-end job I hate, making ~30k a year. I have a bit of a sordid story when it comes to getting to where I am, but that's not relevant. I've been reading up on CS and find it fascinating (at the moment, I'm deciding between pursuing medicine or technology but am leaning towards the latter). I read up a little bit on some of the programs (like University of Rochester) - are there any respected master's programs that don't have too much in the way of prereqs? And I'd preferably do my schooling at a physical campus, although that's not a must. Thanks a lot for the help in advance. I've read quite a bit of this thread and have found it very informative so far!
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Sep 9, 2014 20:16
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From what I've seen, you can't really get into a CS masters program without at least STEM undergrad. In that case they'll usually still make you take like a year of OOP, but you're still behind on algorithm and computer architecture knowledge. Without a STEM undergrad, a CS masters seems like a stretch. I'd look into MOOCs and other independent study and just demonstrating what you can do to a future employer. I've got a weird academic history filled with "it's almost impossible to do that" so I hate to tell people "no" outright, but definitely explore all of your options. Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 20:26
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mune posted:Thanks a lot for the help in advance. I've read quite a bit of this thread and have found it very informative so far! Seems like someone who's already spent a chunk of their life on two degrees that they're apparently not happy with would be wary of spending time on a third. The CS degree The (usually overwhelming) consensus is that if you've already got some sort of college degree, your time is better spent teaching yourself, doing projects, seeking out internships/entry level positions and learning on the job.
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Sep 9, 2014 20:36
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I think they're both viable paths (bootcamps are another these days, but they're so new it's hard to judge), but if it was me, knowing what I know about software development as a career and CS education now, I'd probably get the extra degree. To me, it seems safer, and the structure would be useful since I usually suck at self-motivating. If I had had to self-teach myself computer science, I probably wouldn't have learned a tenth of what I got out of the degree. edit: I don't have much trouble learning new programming stuff now, of course, but that initial hump can be pretty tough. Cicero fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 21:17
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So I'm a newly-grad (a little less than 2 weeks) who has little real-life work experience (sadly), and I almost feel like the guy linked to on the previous page:quote:CS Graduate struggling to find job though I definitely feel much more motivated and qualified than him (at the very least, I have a GPA > 3.0). I have plenty of open source projects on github that I think show off my ability outside the classroom and a few interesting class projects as well. How would I go about putting these on a resume? After a title of the project and a medium description, should I include a URL as well? That seems kind of odd to me, but what do I know? I'm one of those idiots that didn't search for a job while in school. Should I also include some upper-level courses I've taken as well? I'm not 100% sure what I'd say about them if I did though. Thanks in advance.
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Sep 9, 2014 21:49
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mune posted:I read up a little bit on some of the programs (like University of Rochester) - are there any respected master's programs that don't have too much in the way of prereqs? And I'd preferably do my schooling at a physical campus, although that's not a must. so, like, I know that complaining about the University of Rochester is a hobby of mine (as I dropped out of their undergrad CS department to pursue CS elsewhere), but I really don't think that a program like that, with a strong focus in theoretical research as opposed to practical skills and nothing in the way of support for students, would be useful to you. The other advice in the thread seems sound, though. In unrelated news.... I've accepted a job offer for after I graduate in December that I'm really excited about. Thanks, thread, for being somewhere for me to find resources/a resource throughout the job search process!
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Sep 9, 2014 23:06
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Lots of great, timely replies, and I thank you guys for your patience with my questions. I guess why I'm looking for a rigid CS master's is because I'm 28 and need some way of standing out - I've already wasted enough time, so I figured a master's would be the way to go. I've been told a million times by different people in my field "oh, do this, and you'll stand out, or do this, and you'll be great" and I've done all of those things without anything to show for it. It still seems like a divided field of opinions, although the learn-on-your-own camp seems to have the advantage in numbers. I'm all for learning on my own, I just figured I'd learn more with a master's and it'd help me get past the HR filters.
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Sep 10, 2014 00:06
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:From what I've seen, you can't really get into a CS masters program without at least STEM undergrad. In that case they'll usually still make you take like a year of OOP, but you're still behind on algorithm and computer architecture knowledge. I had a philosophy major undergrad and graduated from a CS master's program. I had to take like, two classes on a probationary period and keep my GPA above a 3.0 for a semester before they let me in the program for real.
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Sep 10, 2014 00:51
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mune posted:So, I'm a guy who has two humanities bachelor's degrees and a dead-end job I hate, making ~30k a year... Look at the program I am in at UWG, there's a link in the OP (second post). No pre-reqs, I had an English degree. I like it, and got a great internship with it.
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Sep 10, 2014 02:23
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Ytlaya posted:After posting in this other thread (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3656060) about making just ~31k (maybe 32k now, I work at a state university and get "inflation raises") with 4 years of programming/web development experience Cicero said to post about it here so I figured I would*. Part of the reason why I've never requested a raise is that I know I'm not a good programmer. This isn't just me being humble or something; I'm pretty clearly not talented at all and mostly stopped improving after my first year or so. I also worked with this really skilled consultant over Skype for a few months and he would frequently get very frustrated with me. It's honestly been pretty depressing for me, because I always learned new things fast (I seriously gained probably 80% of my current ability in just a couple months) and just sort of assumed while growing up and in college "if I spent years doing this I'd surely be totally awesome at it!" Working with that consultant made me feel like the dumbest fucker alive. Looking at your code you aren't a bad programmer, as long as that thing works. You aren't good either, but you just fall into that middle ground that most people do. If you want to get better, read a book about refactoring and spend 10 hours trying to make that code better. It shouldn't be difficult. Other than that, just apply for jobs and don't misrepresent yourself. You might not get a bunch of people knocking down the doors to hire you but you should be able to find something for $60k pretty quickly.
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Sep 10, 2014 02:54
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FoodProcessor posted:I have plenty of open source projects on github that I think show off my ability outside the classroom and a few interesting class projects as well. How would I go about putting these on a resume? After a title of the project and a medium description, should I include a URL as well? On my resume I put my Github link in my resume header and then in the projects section I mention version and that it's on Github: example. An actual URL to the project would take up precious space. I also mention in all my cover letters in some form or fashion, about my work being on Github and that there is a link in my resume. So they know where to go to look for the projects. On an HTML resume, you can obviously link easily enough.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:02
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Doghouse posted:Look at the program I am in at UWG, there's a link in the OP (second post). No pre-reqs, I had an English degree. I like it, and got a great internship with it. Thanks, I've looked it up and it looks very interesting - I'll have to look at it more looking forward!
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Sep 10, 2014 07:00
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Another interview prep site just popped up on reddit for me: https://www.interviewcake.com/quote:Interview Cake is like an extended mock interview that offers hints when you get stuck and explains how to arrive at the answer, not just what the answer is.
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Sep 10, 2014 18:29
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I double majored in CS and Film at a top ~15 university (but not particularly known for its CS, i think), and I finished with about a 3.75 GPA. I just graduated a few months ago and have worked in some film internships (in previous summers) and have a current job at a film place, and I want to switch to a programming job. I don't have any internship experience in computer science. Nor do I have that much of a portfolio (I never really made a point of saving things I did in school, I'm working on a RoR App right now in my free time). Would it be worth trying to find a (paid) internship first, or should I just go straight for a job? I am pretty good at algorithms and I feel confident I could do well on those sorts of questions in an interview, but in terms of technical knowledge I am somewhat lacking (but trying to learn in all my free time). I still don't feel skilled enough to program for a living, but maybe thats how alot of people feel before their first job. One piece of advice I heard is that larger places might be willing to hire me (and invest in training, etc.) just based off GPA / interview, as opposed to smaller places that would want more immediate skills that I could help at. Any truth to that? I'm considering a masters as well. I've started sending out a few applications and haven't heard much back...
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Sep 10, 2014 20:09
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Have you considered something like tools programming for film/CG/animation? On one hand, anything involving the words "graphics tools" can be pretty hardcore mathematical work*, but it would fit into your film experience nicely. * Well, for a typical programming job. Less so if you start comparing it to things like in-depth machine learning or something. Though things like inverse kinematics are still pretty tough. (As an entry level you probably won't be touching low-level IK solvers anyway) Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 20:47
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SpiritOfSanDimas posted:I double majored in CS and Film at a top ~15 university (but not particularly known for its CS, i think), and I finished with about a 3.75 GPA. If you haven't heard back that probably means that your resume isn't great. Otherwise what you're heard is relatively accurate, with the caveat that "large" should be replaced with "established" and small is more startups.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:05
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Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but it's pretty closely related, so. I'm taking this course right now and a lot of the assignments are basically programming assignments, but with a focus on the object oriented design. So most of the grade is making UML diagrams, sequence diagrams, writing about all the classes and what their responsibilities are, method stubs, javadoc comments, and so on. A smaller part of the grade is actually implementing this plan by writing code. It's really driving me crazy. Is this how it really should be done, and I'm just being lazy/dumb by wanting to figure things out as I write and then refactor code? Should I just suck it up and do things the way this textbook says to do it? I mean, it says that you should use little notecards that represent classes when you are planning. What is the process usually like in a real work environment? Right now I'm just writing code and plan to do all that other stuff after I'm done. Doghouse fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 23:11
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Doghouse posted:Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but it's pretty closely related, so. Do it the way it says to do it so you can learn the advantages and disadvantages
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Sep 10, 2014 23:16
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People and teams have wildly different programming styles and workflows. You probably won't find many universals and will, in fact, find plenty of people telling others they're DOING IT WRONG!!!!111!!!!eleven!! I think that book is going a taaaad bit overboard, but in larger teams it's definitely useful to hash out the responsibilities and calling semantics of your public API ahead of time. I'm more like you in that I prefer a more organic approach to writing code, where I sort of hash things out and refactor as I go. This works fine for smaller teams, but for larger, enterprise teams (which the book is probably preparing you for), I can see how it could quickly become a nightmare rather quickly.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:16
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Jsor posted:Have you considered something like tools programming for film/CG/animation? On one hand, anything involving the words "graphics tools" can be pretty hardcore mathematical work*, but it would fit into your film experience nicely. Yea I had thought about this. I haven't seen any listings at any places that develop that kind of software for a Junior position. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:17
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Doghouse posted:Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but it's pretty closely related, so. Like many things you'll learn about in your academic CS career, it makes next to no sense in the context of the assignment. Even moderately sized corporate projects often don't need any of that crap. It's useful to know about so that if you get to a point where you're having trouble keeping everything in your head, you can start to diagram this stuff out using common symbology. Once you get to work on larger projects in an architectural role, making these diagrams may actually be the main thing that you do. Every job and environment is different though. You might come across a conclave of neckbeards that insists on 100% accurate UML before a single line of code is written, or you might find an environment that only cares if the code does what it's supposed to do. All that said, the biggest problem with just writing the code and planning to do all the other stuff when you're done is that the other stuff never actually gets done. Forcing yourself to write tests or documentation early not only gets it done, but it can make you think about the code at a deeper level, possibly saving you refactoring time. So suck it up and get through it, it may come in handy some day.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:21
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Thanks for all the quick responses, goons. I guess I'll get started on them sequence digrams then 
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Sep 10, 2014 23:28
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Welp, 2nd time not making it at google (NY; this year and last year). The Black Box of Interview Rejection sure is frustrating! Felt like all the interviews went well, and I'm usually a pretty harsh judge of that. 
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Sep 11, 2014 01:38
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For some reason, Google reached out to me again for another interview even though they rejected me a few months ago. But this time though, seems I'll be getting a technical phone screen, but I really need to brush up on Unix/Linux/systems programming internals for an SRE position. Anyone have good sources for that? I have my old textbook which I'll be thumbing through, but if there are any good sources that y'all know about, I'd appreciate it being passed along this way. Thanks!
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Sep 11, 2014 02:38
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Cicero posted:Another interview prep site just popped up on reddit for me: https://www.interviewcake.com/ I read "cake", "extend", and "mock" and my scala/DI lizard brain kicked in
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Sep 11, 2014 03:12
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I just got a call not 5 minutes ago from a guy who just kept saying "I kicked you out because you looked like crap" over and over. I said "whoah, whoah, whoah, who is this?" and he said this is Name Redacted that you wrote a bad review about on Glassdoor.com. I immediately hung up. I had written a bad review of him (third party recruiter) because he invited me to his office and then summarily kicked me out for clicking the top of my pen too much. However, apparently he kicked me out for looking like crap x10 and he really needed me to know that I guess. I'm practically giddy about him seeing the glassdoor review and getting pissed off since he was so unprofessional and it shows in more than one way. Maybe if he didn't waste my time and money he wouldn't get a terrible review.
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Sep 11, 2014 21:49
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Maybe you shouldn't be some crap-looking gigantic smelly pen-clicker then.
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Sep 11, 2014 22:26
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sarehu posted:Maybe you shouldn't be some crap-looking gigantic smelly pen-clicker then. I'll keep that in mind next time. Cicero, remind me not to be gigantic, I can handle the rest.
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Sep 11, 2014 23:07
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perfectfire posted:I can handle the rest. you or your wife
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Sep 11, 2014 23:25
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perfectfire posted:I'll keep that in mind next time. Cicero, remind me not to be gigantic, I can handle the rest.  and do more  ....by which I mean exercising, not buying a horse. SA has surprisingly few exercise-related emoticons.
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Sep 11, 2014 23:31
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Cicero posted:SA has surprisingly few exercise-related emoticons.
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