HelloIAmYourHeart posted:

Now how many similar artifacts do you suppose have been destroyed or lost throughout the ages?

Kimmalah posted:

I don't know about books, but there are records of people finding bog bodies in peat since at least the 17th century and probably further back than that. But usually they were given a regular burial so I'd assume they're pretty much lost by now. I've also heard of lot of them being accidentally damaged either by the people who found them or by bad attempts at preserving them outside the bog.

Speaking of, ancient mummies used to be ground up for medicine and fertilizer so there's no telling how many of those have been lost.

quote:

Li [Shizhen]: According to 陶九成 [Tao Jiucheng] in the 輟耕錄 [Chuogenglu "Record after retiring from plowing"], it says in Arabia there are men 70 to 80 years old who are willing to give their bodies to save others. The subject does not eat food, he only bathes and partakes of honey. After a month he only excretes honey (the urine and feces are entirely honey) and death follows. His fellow men place him in a stone coffin full of honey in which he macerates. The date is put upon the coffin giving the year and month. After a hundred years the seals are removed. A confection is formed which is used for the treatment of broken and wounded limbs. A small amount taken internally will immediately cure the complaint. It is scarce in Arabia where it is called mellified man.

benito posted:

benito posted:

"Here lies a boy, his last meal was dried out pork chops and burned dinner rolls. Perhaps there was a ritual significance."

The_Raven posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Benders

A family of serial killers who set up a tavern along the Osage Trail in Kansas. They were a huge story and the cause of a nationwide manhunt when their tavern/abattoir was discovered in 1873, but not much remembered these days.

The_Raven posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Benders

A family of serial killers who set up a tavern along the Osage Trail in Kansas. They were a huge story and the cause of a nationwide manhunt when their tavern/abattoir was discovered in 1873, but not much remembered these days.

HelloIAmYourHeart posted:

Here is a mummy I'd like to know more about : St. Bee's Man. He was a knight who was killed in the Crusades in 1368 named Anthony de Lucy, and his body was buried in a lead coffin that perfectly preserved his body to the point that when it was discovered in 1981, his skin was pink, his irises were visible, and he had liquid blood in his chest.



Unfortunately, there aren't many pictures of him online, which is frustrating because when I hear about a perfectly preserved mummy I want to see him, dammit, and judge for myself. There's a nice transcription of a talk about him here that describes his discovery, autopsy, and the process of identifying him, as well as a brief discussion of some similar mummies.

I wonder if any of de Lucy's descendants could be found, and if so, how they would feel about looking at their literal flesh and blood from six centuries ago.

Molentik posted:

The Tollund Man.

The Tollund Man is the naturally mummified corpse of a man who lived during the 4th century BCE, during the period characterised in Scandinavia as the Pre-Roman Iron Age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollund_Man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body

For these people, the bogs held some sort of liminal significance, and indeed, they placed into them votive offerings intended for the Other world, often of neck-rings, wristlets or ankle-rings made of bronze or more rarely gold. The archaeologist P.V. Glob believed that these were "offerings to the gods of fertility and good fortune",.[17] It is therefore widely speculated that the Iron Age bog bodies were thrown into the bog for similar reasons, and that they were therefore examples of human sacrifice to the gods.

Falukorv posted:

Reminds me of this bog body, found on a bog in my native Sweden in 1936. The skin and stuff isn't as well preserved as with the Tollund man, but his hair, skeleton and clothing are. Plus some fragments of muscle, skin and brain.




There's one of the poles he was staked with, through his heart originally.



Reconstruction made on the basis of his bodily remains and clothing he was wearing.


His tunic


His shoes


He's the Bockstensmannen, died around 1350, his body staked by wooden poles to the bog to prevent him from returning as a haunting ghost. What is fascinating are the details of his life we can deduce due to his well-preserved skeleton and clothing. His tunic is probably the best preserved medieval tunic ever found in Europe.

Cause of death is unknown though, but most likely violent. According to medieval superstition, it was mostly people who died violent deaths that would return as poltergeists. He was in his 30's, belonged to the upper class of medieval society, but not the very top. So not a nobleman or a king, but possibly a higher official of some nobleman. 171 cm tall, gangly and unmuscular, wellnourished, and signs on his femur indicated that he rode alot. Wore very fashionable clothing for his time, which is also one of the biggest pieces of evidence for his suggested lower upper class background.

Molentik posted:

TheModernAmerican posted:

I think this is the "What do you think this thread is becoming" thread.

Falukorv posted:

Reminds me of this bog body, found on a bog in my native Sweden in 1936. The skin and stuff isn't as well preserved as with the Tollund man, but his hair, skeleton and clothing are. Plus some fragments of muscle, skin and brain.




There's one of the poles he was staked with, through his heart originally.



Reconstruction made on the basis of his bodily remains and clothing he was wearing.


His tunic


His shoes


He's the Bockstensmannen, died around 1350, his body staked by wooden poles to the bog to prevent him from returning as a haunting ghost. What is fascinating are the details of his life we can deduce due to his well-preserved skeleton and clothing. His tunic is probably the best preserved medieval tunic ever found in Europe.

Cause of death is unknown though, but most likely violent. According to medieval superstition, it was mostly people who died violent deaths that would return as poltergeists. He was in his 30's, belonged to the upper class of medieval society, but not the very top. So not a nobleman or a king, but possibly a higher official of some nobleman. 171 cm tall, gangly and unmuscular, wellnourished, and signs on his femur indicated that he rode alot. Wore very fashionable clothing for his time, which is also one of the biggest pieces of evidence for his suggested lower upper class background.

El Estrago Bonito posted:

I unfortunately wasted a large portion of schooling almost getting a history degree. I was focused very heavily on the Dark Ages specifically. And the thing I always found the most unnerving was how into appearance and self upkeep the Vikings were, and also how their society was very progressive enough to trick you into a lull until you are suddenly reminded of their stunning level of cultural violence.

In the Sagas there is a point where a man wont let some travelers (our main characters at this point) stay in his home. This is a huuuuuge no-no in Viking society because things were so harsh and spread out that the existence of commerce depended heavily on being able to sleep in peoples houses for free. So the characters get pissed and come back at night to steal food from his storage house. But then when they are walking away to their boat their leader remembers that stealing is illegal and dishonorable.

So, like, do they return his stuff, say sorry, maybe work his land for a while to repay the slight?

gently caress no, they light his house on fire and kill him.

Because as long as you defeat a man in battle taking his stuff is honorable and cool.

The idea that people who thought and acted so much like us (it was customary for Norse men to carry expensive shaving kits with them everywhere they went! Women had actual rights! They liked pro wrestling!) but were also accepting of a extremely cavalier attitude towards killing other men. Also the sport of Viking lords/chiefs/kings was horse fighting. Where you sexually excite and anger two stallions and then place them in a deep pit where they proceed to violently kill each other.

El Estrago Bonito posted:

In the Sagas there is a point where a man wont let some travelers (our main characters at this point) stay in his home. This is a huuuuuge no-no in Viking society because things were so harsh and spread out that the existence of commerce depended heavily on being able to sleep in peoples houses for free. So the characters get pissed and come back at night to steal food from his storage house. But then when they are walking away to their boat their leader remembers that stealing is illegal and dishonorable.

So, like, do they return his stuff, say sorry, maybe work his land for a while to repay the slight?

gently caress no, they light his house on fire and kill him.

Ague Proof posted:

Mass grave found. Bodies almost perfectly preserved. Flesh almost perfectly intact due to the environment. Still wearing appropriate clothes that would have helped them stay warm in the climate and appropriate footwear to traverse it. Still wearing colourful clothes that suggest some kind of religious performance or mass hysteria. Location totally remote from any useful function or habitation. Speculation of a ritual sacrifice to the god of the Mountain.

Rondette posted:

Loving the bog bodies....back to missing people for a second, the whole wiki page is a great read...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_disappeared_mysteriously

quote:

Maura then left Amherst, presumably via Interstate 91 north. She called to check her voice mail at 4:37 pm, the last recorded use of her cell phone. To date there is no indication she had informed anyone of her destination or evidence she had chosen one.

Some time after 7:00 pm, a Woodsville, New Hampshire, resident heard a loud thump outside of her house. Through her window she could see a black Saturn sedan up against the snowbank along Route 112, also known as Wild Ammonoosuc Road. The car pointed west on the eastbound side of the road. She telephoned the Grafton County Sheriff's Department at 7:27 pm to report the accident. At about the same time another neighbor saw the Saturn as well as someone walking around the vehicle. She witnessed a third neighbor pull up alongside the Saturn.

That neighbor, a school bus driver returning home, noticed the young woman was not bleeding but cold and shivering. He offered to telephone for help. She asked him not to call the police (one police report says "pleaded") and assured him she'd already called AAA. (AAA has no record of any such call.) Knowing there was no cell phone reception in the area, the bus driver continued home and phoned the police. His call was received by the Sheriff's Department at 7:43 pm. He was unable to see Maura's car while he made the phone call but did notice several cars pass on the road before the police arrived.

At 7:46 pm, a Haverhill police officer arrived at the scene. No one was inside or around the car. The car's windshield was cracked on the driver's side and both airbags had deployed. The car was locked. Inside and outside the car he discovered red stains that looked to be red wine. The officer found a damaged box of Franzia wine on the rear seat. In addition, he found an AAA card issued to Maura Murray, blank crash report forms, gloves, compact discs, makeup, two sets of MapQuest driving directions (one to Burlington, Vermont, another to Stowe, Vermont), Maura's favorite stuffed animal, and Not Without Peril, a book about mountain climbing in the White Mountains. Missing were Maura's debit card, credit cards, and cell phone, none of which have been located or used since her disappearance.

Helena Handbasket posted:

I'll call this one out specifically, the Disappearance of Maura Murray. Relatively recent, we know a fair amount about what was happening immediately prior to her disappearance, and yet she vanished 10 years ago and we don't have anything conclusive.


Explanations range from "stumbled off the road, died someplace where her body hasn't been found" to "picked up by opportunistic murderer" to "traveling in tandem with another driver in a separate vehicle who picked her up after the crash." This last one is the preference of James Renner, who has written and researched a lot about Maura, evidently - his blog is here He also pops in on this Reddit thread from 2012 about the case. I haven't read back through his archives so I can't comment on the crackpot/legit investigation ratio here. In the Reddit thread, he tells someone who theorizes that Maura was abused by her father that they "have a good read on the case."

Much like the bog people or Jack the Ripper or most of the other human things we've discussed here, which theory makes the most sense depends on how you weight the evidence. We have a lot of info in this case - like the fact that she was being investigated for credit card fraud - that could be key or could be completely unrelated.

Some nasty gently caress also released strange videos taunting her family a few years ago. (James Renner re-hosted them here.) One of the videos included a picture of a lift pass from nearby Bretton Woods ski area, dated two days after her disappearance (and many years before the videos).

Aristophanes posted:

You are talking about all the bodies on Mt Everest, right?

Fragrag posted:

I did not catch that at all. It makes me wonder what writings will survive that will explain our contemporary world, and how many elements will be left up to the speculation of future historians.

Fragrag posted:

I did not catch that at all. It makes me wonder what writings will survive that will explain our contemporary world, and how many elements will be left up to the speculation of future historians.

Jeherrin posted:

Even though h was hanged, he looks like he's welcoming it. In fact, he was hung so carefully the cervical vertebrae weren't even damaged. This was not a quick death. This wasn't a drop and snap hanging. This was slow. The autopsy in 2002 showed his tongue as being distended, a classic symptom of hanging. And yet he looks like he's asleep.

Freudian posted:

We don't know who this "Colonel Sanders" was, but we find it hard to believe he controlled all the territories which hold his garrisons. More likely he was an amalgamation of many petty conquerors, merged by folklore.

RevSyd posted:

Here's the definitive book on that scenario: Motel of the Mysteries, which is about a famous archaeological discovery in the year 4022.











The authors point is that while archaeologists are truly dedicated to their work, once history gets remote enough their guesses are just that. The book is really funny because all of their guesses are wrong... its "present day" seems equivalent to about the nineteenth century, and the grand burial plaza they uncover is just a 20th century motel. It never occurs to the archaeologists that the civilization they've uncovered might have been more technologically advanced than their own.



How these ceremonial accoutrements may have been worn (note the outhouse in the background). When they uncover the parking lot for instance, they confidently assume that the rusted metal coffins they find were designed to transport souls to the afterlife, since they are all labeled with the names of powerful ancient gods and totems (Saturn, Thunderbird, Eagle, Ford etc.)


Then there are the misfortunes that befall some of the excavators... the dreaded and mysterious Curse of Toot n' Come In.

Freudian posted:

We don't know who this "Colonel Sanders" was, but we find it hard to believe he controlled all the territories which hold his garrisons. More likely he was an amalgamation of many petty conquerors, merged by folklore.

The_Raven posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Benders

A family of serial killers who set up a tavern along the Osage Trail in Kansas. They were a huge story and the cause of a nationwide manhunt when their tavern/abattoir was discovered in 1873, but not much remembered these days.