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Alien 3 is a pretty drat good movie. Hicks and Newt were good in Aliens, but they did all they could.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:59
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CelticPredator posted:Alien 3 is a pretty drat good movie. Hicks and Newt were good in Aliens, but they did all they could. Alien3 is a good but deeply flawed movie. It's telling a tragic story that a lot of people didn't want to see after the gung-ho uplifting high-fives ending of 'Aliens', not to mention it was hamstrung by production problems and near-constant studio interference. The extended edition is better in a lot of ways, although there's a lot of stuff from the theatrical cut that I prefer. My "ideal" version would be a sort of blend of the two versions.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:57
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CelticPredator posted:Alien 3 is a pretty drat good movie. Hicks and Newt were good in Aliens, but they did all they could. I never saw them as particularly important in Aliens, so focusing the serie son them instead of Ripley just feel weird to me. Which reminds me: one of the thing that bugs me about Colonial Marines is the main character. One of the most interesting things about the Alien series has always been it's lead: Ripley. Not many movies had a female main character. So it's pretty strange that so few of the Alien derived works have female main characters. Colonial Marines had you playing boring white marine number 43, who was impossible to distinguish from multiple other marines in the game. The game didn't even attempt to redo the original Alien twist, where it would switch protagonist midway through. Hell, there's only two major female characters in the game, and one of them gets fridged in a terribly stupid manner.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:13
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Alien 3 is an okay movie that has the misfortune of following up two classics. It was also the beginning of the franchise becoming commercialized dogshit.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:35
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This thread is like the Aliens franchise. It refuses to die with dignity.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:36
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Needs to have something good before it can die with dignity.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:I never saw them as particularly important in Aliens, so focusing the serie son them instead of Ripley just feel weird to me. Newt is actually super important in Aliens but only in relation to Ripley (though this is made more obvious when you watch one of the deleted scenes). MonsieurChoc posted:Which reminds me: one of the thing that bugs me about Colonial Marines is the main character. One of the most interesting things about the Alien series has always been it's lead: Ripley. Not many movies had a female main character. So it's pretty strange that so few of the Alien derived works have female main characters. Colonial Marines had you playing boring white marine number 43, who was impossible to distinguish from multiple other marines in the game. The game didn't even attempt to redo the original Alien twist, where it would switch protagonist midway through. Hell, there's only two major female characters in the game, and one of them gets fridged in a terribly stupid manner. You're in luck Ripley's daughter is the protagonist in the next game even though it makes almost as little or less sense than Hicks surviving!
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Sep 11, 2014 00:44
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:Newt is actually super important in Aliens but only in relation to Ripley (though this is made more obvious when you watch one of the deleted scenes). Ehh. Not really. I mean, Ripley's daughter dies anyway. Either they can call it a cover up, or something similar. They have more freedom to play with the canon than with Hicks.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:49
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Ripley's daughter dies as an old woman so unless A:I is the adventures of a badass grandmother she isn't dying in that one.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:53
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Alien 3 owns, haters vacate.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:56
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Ripley's Daughter, who is basically Ripley without a license to use Sigourney Weaver's likeness.
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Sep 11, 2014 00:57
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Ripley's Daughter, who is basically Ripley without a license to use Sigourney Weaver's likeness. Didn't they specifically get Sigourney Weaver's likeness to use in the A:I DLC?
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Sep 11, 2014 00:59
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ImpAtom posted:Ripley's daughter dies as an old woman so unless A:I is the adventures of a badass grandmother she isn't dying in that one. In interviews, when asked about this, they've said stuff like "Well, Ripley was shown a photo of an old woman...", so they're basically gonna go in whatever direction they want, and say that Ripley was lied to if anything conflicts. ...Actually, having the protagonist be Ripley's daughter is the exact sort of thing a publisher would force a developer to do, and the above sounds exactly like what a dev would do to get around that situation, but I haven't heard anything about the decision one way or the other. Has anyone come out and said who decided that?
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Sep 11, 2014 01:17
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Yodzilla posted:Alien 3 owns, haters vacate. It doesn't, but the recut version is better and makes more sense. Killing off Tywin so early was a really poor move. The best part about Alien 3 is reading about the history of its production (and the possibly and sometimes definitely even worse scrips that were developed before Fincher was brought in to try to salvage what little could be salvaged). Alien 3, like all the sequels that came after it (same case with Terminator after Terminator 2), should've never happened and the series left after the first sequel.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:42
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ImpAtom posted:Didn't they specifically get Sigourney Weaver's likeness to use in the A:I DLC? Cheston posted:In interviews, when asked about this, they've said stuff like "Well, Ripley was shown a photo of an old woman...", so they're basically gonna go in whatever direction they want, and say that Ripley was lied to if anything conflicts. I'm not joking. It's executed a bit better than that, and it has a resurrected subroutine of Ash (the android from 'Alien') popping up and causing some trouble, and if you ignore the Ripley parts it's a pretty neat story with interesting characters since Ripley isn't really even the main character. But according to the author, Ripley's inclusion was mandated by FOX. Ripley's inclusion doesn't really help the book, but the author does the best with what he's got to work with in order to keep it from reading like lovely fan-fiction, which is about all you can expect. I wouldn't be surprised if Amanda Ripley's inclusion in Isolation was a similar FOX mandate, but I'd have to do some digging to see if the developers have said as much. FOX has also been more hands-on in having the new comic series, new novel trilogy, W-Y Report, and Isolation tie together with each other and reference each other. In another wacky retcon, apparently the new 'Aliens' comic series is going to reveal that not all of the Hadley's Hope colonists got killed by the Aliens, and that some of them actually managed to ditch the colony when poo poo started falling apart and managed to escape the planet in some kind of short-range shuttle. All kinds of retcons up in this bitch. 
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Sep 11, 2014 02:03
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:It doesn't, but the recut version is better and makes more sense. Killing off Tywin so early was a really poor move. No, that was the best move. It added so much to how helpless and lonely Ripley is. It's such a perfectly nihlistic film, with probably the best ending in the whole series. (Original version) The music is a huge part of why that scene works. I would say Elliot's score is the best of all the films. Easily.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:02
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Gas this thread, christ.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:02
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It's the only thread that's basically Alien.Txt, so no, I will not kiss all of this bullshit goodbye!
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Sep 11, 2014 05:18
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^^^There's the Alien: Isolation thread but it's dead for now (like the franchise). The 3 Alien movies were the only good things in the franchise. Everything else including comic books is pretty bad in comparison, like it's on a completely different fanfiction level.
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Sep 11, 2014 06:33
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Palpek posted:^^^There's the Alien: Isolation thread but it's dead for now (like the franchise).
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Sep 11, 2014 07:47
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Palpek posted:^^^There's the Alien: Isolation thread but it's dead for now (like the franchise). I remember in one of the Alien sequel books they encountered Space Jockies and they just looked like big elephant heads with helmets on. I think they threw rocks or something at Not Newt and Not Hicks. That's pretty much why I was OK with the Jockies in Prometheus. Beats the hell out of giant elephants.
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Sep 11, 2014 07:55
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Xenomrph posted:'The Weyland Yutani Report', basically a spiritual successor to the Colonial Marines Technical Manual from years ago. Probably the best Aliens news in years. I'm tempted by the comics too. MonsieurChoc posted:So it's pretty strange that so few of the Alien derived works have female main characters. Colonial Marines had you playing boring white marine number 43, who was impossible to distinguish from multiple other marines in the game. I think if you ran the stats, most of the AVP extended universe stuff would end up with female leads. Could be my memory acting up though. Yodzilla posted:Alien 3 owns, haters vacate. This.
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Sep 11, 2014 08:07
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glitchkrieg posted:Probably the best Aliens news in years. I'm tempted by the comics too.     glitchkrieg posted:I think if you ran the stats, most of the AVP extended universe stuff would end up with female leads. Could be my memory acting up though. In the comics and novels and whatever, there's a better representation of female leads.
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Sep 11, 2014 08:27
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CelticPredator posted:No, that was the best move. It added so much to how helpless and lonely Ripley is. It's such a perfectly nihlistic film, with probably the best ending in the whole series. (Original version) The music is a huge part of why that scene works. I would say Elliot's score is the best of all the films. Easily. Nope. Especially weird to make that claim when the movie's quality nosedives after that point, too. Alien 3 isn't bad (and everything coming after makes it look even better in retrospect) but it certainly isn't good which is totally understandable considering its preproduction, production, and postproduction. Lets! Get! Weird! fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 01:14
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Well, I'm not going to go back and fourth with you, but I very much disagree. Their death provided some of the best scenes in the franchise. (Dillon's speech/Alien Chestbursting/Weaver's acting)
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Sep 12, 2014 01:19
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:Nope. Especially weird to make that claim when the movie's quality nosedives after that point, too.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:04
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Xenomrph posted:I'm with Celtic on this one. Let me be the first to offer absolutely no surprise at all.
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Sep 12, 2014 23:41
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alf_pogs posted:Let me be the first to offer absolutely no surprise at all. But there really wasn't anything fanboyish about that at all? In fact most Alien fan boys I know of think killing off Hicks was the worst thing the franchise has done.
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Sep 13, 2014 09:42
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Alien 3 has problems, but killing off Hicks and Newt isn't one of them. In fact I think it's the strongest thematic and creatively resonant choice in that entire movie, apart from maybe the ending.
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Sep 13, 2014 10:35
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Given how hard Fincher was hosed over during the whole process I'm surprised what we got was as decent as is was. As it is now days when I want to watch it I put on the Assembly Cut right up until "You loving android!" then change to the theatrical. I have no idea why they decided to cut the incredibly powerful climax in half for that. Also the soundtrack is loving incredible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbXN96n5mLY
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Sep 13, 2014 10:43
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blackguy32 posted:But there really wasn't anything fanboyish about that at all? In fact most Alien fan boys I know of think killing off Hicks was the worst thing the franchise has done. I dunno if you've noticed but Xenomrph is that weird kind of fanboy that defends almost everything in the franchise even when it fucks with the stuff from the better entries.
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Sep 13, 2014 12:49
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adamantium|wang posted:Given how hard Fincher was hosed over during the whole process I'm surprised what we got was as decent as is was. Decent?  How could anyone think what we got was even decent? The Assembly cut is definitely better, but only makes that film bearable. The film is raw rear end and it's soundtrack is forgettable.
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Sep 13, 2014 13:10
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Sire Oblivion posted:Decent? Hmm, its like judging a film is a subjective process. I mean not as good as Alien or Aliens is still pretty drat good. Hell, Alien 3 is probably still better than 90 percent of the sci-fi/horror films out there.
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Sep 13, 2014 14:42
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The problem with that is 90 percent or more of anything is bad. It's not pretty good, but it does look a lot worse because of what it had to follow. It's not even surprising it's mediocre at best if you look at how it was put together it never had a chance to be a good film.
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Sep 13, 2014 14:58
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Sire Oblivion posted:Decent? Look.
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Sep 13, 2014 15:13
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Has it ever been touched on or have explored the idea for alternatives Xenomorph life cycles? Like the whole needing a host or queen as the only method of reproduction seems kinda flimsy, what if in a situation they loving can't use facehuggers occur, what then? . The best I could find with is the Alien 3 script where *not a zombie virus* was turning people into xenos.
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Sep 13, 2014 15:14
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SirDrone posted:Has it ever been touched on or have explored the idea for alternatives Xenomorph life cycles? Like the whole needing a host or queen as the only method of reproduction seems kinda flimsy, what if in a situation they loving can't use facehuggers occur, what then? . The best I could find with is the Alien 3 script where *not a zombie virus* was turning people into xenos. That's since been mostly retconned out, though. The second AvP movie had the Predalien barfing Alien embryos directly down people's throats, no facehugger required. And then Resurrection had the mutated life cycle where the Newborn was born without needing a host at all. Outside of that, the comics and games and whatever have been pretty reluctant to mess with the Alien life cycle.
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Sep 13, 2014 15:30
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ImpAtom posted:Ripley's daughter dies as an old woman so unless A:I is the adventures of a badass grandmother she isn't dying in that one. I'm picturing a DLC that's the opposite of the one for Colonial Marines where some mercenaries switch up stuff to make you think she lived!!!! Hakkesshu posted:Alien 3 has problems, but killing off Hicks and Newt isn't one of them. In fact I think it's the strongest thematic and creatively resonant choice in that entire movie, apart from maybe the ending. Agreed. To me the issue isn't that they were killed, but that the interplay between Clemens and Andrews goes away so fast because they both get killed so early and one after the other. And due to the haphazard production of the movie in general this was where they ran out of script writing and just needed to finish a story. There's sort of a gap there character wise. Charles S. Dutton and Paul McGann are both really strong but in the theatrically released version of the movie there's no real thematic context to their actions (I mean McGann is only even in the theatrical one for like ten seconds). I still can't believe how bad Alien 3 is in its theatrical state and how good it is in its work print state. Palpek posted:The 3 Alien movies were the only good things in the franchise. Everything else including comic books is pretty bad in comparison, like it's on a completely different fanfiction level. I find these two games interesting design-wise because I feel like every goofy alien design/android thing/plot twist ever done in the endless stream of lovely comics and novels was done in these except these games are a lot of fun at the same time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdbfg7EKI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3DBiDAt2Y Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 15:43
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SirDrone posted:Has it ever been touched on or have explored the idea for alternatives Xenomorph life cycles? Like the whole needing a host or queen as the only method of reproduction seems kinda flimsy, what if in a situation they loving can't use facehuggers occur, what then? . If we go by Prometheus they're a biologically engineered weapon so it doesn't matter if they can't find hosts. If we go by the fact it's just scary and creepy and we shouldn't overthink things than it's just scary and creepy and the queen thematically connects to Ripley losing her daughter and being a mother figure/protector with Newt. We're also talking about creatures that never eat (though they do in the Starbeast script) and have acid for blood (which is just to justify not shooting it).
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Sep 13, 2014 15:57
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:If we go by Prometheus they're a biologically engineered weapon so it doesn't matter if they can't find hosts.
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Sep 13, 2014 16:32
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