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Huh? Almost every major character gets plot and development in the second half of FFVI. It is just based around their own story instead of them being party members. Which is how it is in the first half too. You don't get Edgar and Sabin's plot unless you bring them along, you don't get Locke's plot unless you visit a certain place, ect. Required character plot development in FFVI is limited to like Celes and Terra and maybe Locke aside from that one section where everyone splits up. Meanwhile the WoR has the resolution to most character's plots. Certain minor characters (Strago being a big example here) don't really get much and Relm/Shadow's stuff is hidden behind dreams but even Gau gets a big plot resolution in the WoR.
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Sep 14, 2014 16:44
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Armor-Piercing posted:I'm pretty sure you get other elemental stuff fairly quickly, but just get a bear and use that for a while. Now that I did go out of my way to do. My other active monster is a Wolf, incidentally. edit: Why does what should be a momentary distraction require a minigame? Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 16:45
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Really the WoR has way more character dialogue/interaction than the WoB, but that isn't saying much. That just isn't FF6's strong suit.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:06
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I'm surprised that for being a story-first gamer, you haven't said what you thought about Cross's story yet. What did you think? I liked the story itself but the presentation towards the end had some...problems to put it mildly. I think the characters by and large get a bum rap on being "nothing but a bunch of bad accents" as a lot of them did have interesting stories to them I thought. For example, the whole Dario subplot was one of the strongest points of the game since, from pretty much the beginning of Another World, you hear all about him and all you know is "something happened." it was interesting when you finally got some resolution to that and it related to several characters. Of course a lot of the characters did contribute nothing plot-wise but not all of them were that way. Of course I only ever got about...26 characters? And even then I didn't do a lot of sidequests and stuff so I probably missed out on some characterization and whatnot. I only stumbled upon Karsh's backstory completely by accident for example. (That was convenient though since I liked him) I'm doing a second run right now and I think to get everything I'll need to completely follow a FAQ. I think my biggest complaint about the ending is that Lynx, who has been built up from the first as our Big Bad, kinda died with no fanfare or deathbed monologue or....anything. There was just no closure for either Kid or Serge. I'll be honest though, I did like Serge than Crono in terms of Silent Protagonists. The thing about Crono is that he was completely unremarkable. He was literally a random kid from some podunk town. He had no reason at all to be in the game. Serge? He had every reason to be in the game. There would be no game without him. But overall, I'd say I liked the story until it kinda fell apart. But the lackluster ending didn't ruin the game for me like it seems to have done for some people. quote:Don't be in a retro mood. Play Nier. I'll ask for it for my birthday. (it's this October) NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 17:09
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NikkolasKing posted:Of course a lot of the characters did contribute nothing plot-wise but not all of them were that way. Of course I only ever got about...26 characters?
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Sep 14, 2014 17:23
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NikkolasKing posted:I'll ask for it for my birthday. (it's this October) It'll be the best gift ever. Don't be afraid to post here or in the Nier thread.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:49
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Nier is loving sicknasty and radical, hardcore dope to the max fresh, with the hottest jams up in your dome, and it's got all that sweet bullet hell action and totes hellacious boar drifting but drat son you'd best skip half of them wack-rear end sidequests 'cause that poo poo be loaded
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Sep 14, 2014 17:52
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Nier is loving sicknasty and radical, hardcore dope to the max fresh, with the hottest jams up in your dome, and it's got all that sweet bullet hell action and totes hellacious boar drifting but drat son you'd best skip half of them wack-rear end sidequests 'cause that poo poo be loaded
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Sep 14, 2014 18:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LKIsWOSHAY
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Sep 14, 2014 18:02
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FF5 is a better game than FF6.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:20
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Authorman posted:FF5 is a better game than FF6. I love FF6 and all, but I completely agree with this.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:21
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Final Fantasy 5 is a better game, FF6 is better at atmosphere and character and a lot of other elements. If you could somehow combine the two you'd have the perfect game.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:23
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ImpAtom posted:Final Fantasy 5 is a better game, FF6 is better at atmosphere and character and a lot of other elements. If you could somehow combine the two you'd have the perfect game. Basically this. Bravely Default has hints of that, but falls short in a few aspects. Honestly, the one game that actually got an aesthetic closest to what FFVI does was, in my opinion, Radiant Historia, which heavily features a technological steampunk kingdom with magical mecha.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:25
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Honestly, I think FF5 is better at characters. It only has five party members but all five of them are pretty decent characters, plus Gilgamesh is a really great character too. That's six funny, memorable characters with decent arcs. FF6 has about as many characters who have complete arcs, but it also has like 10 other characters who just sort of float around the edges eating up screentime. FF5 is a lot simpler, but due to its smaller party size and more barebones plot, it feels more focused.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:26
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Endorph posted:Honestly, I think FF5 is better at characters. It only has five party members but all five of them are pretty decent characters, plus Gilgamesh is a really great character too. That's six funny, memorable characters with decent arcs. FF6 has about as many characters who have complete arcs, but it also has like 10 other characters who just sort of float around the edges eating up screentime. They're all terribly bland and empty characters. The closest they have to characterization is in the GBA release which is extremely loose with the translation. Even then it's hard to argue they really have arcs aside from "I found my sister and my dad is dead!" I can't even tell you what Bartz' arc is after he goes back to help at the start. Galuf has a pretty solid arc I guess. I mean just off the top of my head, FF6 has Terra, Celes, Locke, Sabin, Edgar, Cyan, Shadow, Setzer and arguably Gau who get full arcs. Mog, Relm, Strago, Gogo and Umaro are all pretty forgettable but 3 of those are optional characters and two join extremely late in the game. I like FFV a lot but more because of the solid mechanics (and Gilgamesh is a fun character.) The actual core plot is extremely dull and with minimal characterization. Which does make it good for FJFing for the most part. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 18:32
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Endorph posted:Honestly, I think FF5 is better at characters. It only has five party members but all five of them are pretty decent characters, plus Gilgamesh is a really great character too. That's six funny, memorable characters with decent arcs. FF6 has about as many characters who have complete arcs, but it also has like 10 other characters who just sort of float around the edges eating up screentime. So what you're saying is that FF5 should be the one going head-to-head with Chrono Trigger. Simpler narrative, smaller cast of characters, etc.. But can it stand up in the Music department? I know FFVI could but I know precisely one standout track from FF5.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:34
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Every JRPG is the best JRPG. Except for maybe Beyond the Beyond or Paladin's Quest.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:34
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I'd rank Paladin's Quest leagues above 7th Saga.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:36
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NikkolasKing posted:So what you're saying is that FF5 should be the one going head-to-head with Chrono Trigger. Simpler narrative, smaller cast of characters, etc.. No, Chrono Trigger's core narrative and arcs are a lot stronger than FFVs is. Where FFV stands out is in gameplay mechanics. It is probably the single tightest and most interesting Final Fantasy when it comes to gameplay. FFV has some excellent songs although only really Battle on the Big Bridge stands out above all else.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:37
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BloodWulfe posted:Every JRPG is the best JRPG. Or Dawn of the New World. I can believe that Marta used to be part of the Vanguard, because she's as goddamn psychotic as they are.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:37
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Everything that Chrono Trigger does better than Final Fantasy comes from Dragon Quest, and everything that it does better than Dragon Quest comes from Final Fantasy.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:43
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ImpAtom posted:They're all terribly bland and empty characters. The closest they have to characterization is in the GBA release which is extremely loose with the translation. Even then it's hard to argue they really have arcs aside from "I found my sister and my dad is dead!" I can't even tell you what Bartz' arc is after he goes back to help at the start. Galuf has a pretty solid arc I guess.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:43
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I think the best thing you can say about FFV's story is that it isn't aggressively terrible. It's really generic and the cast is bland, but the story isn't dumb outside of a few goofy things that aren't taken too seriously to begin with. The main reason people love it is because the gameplay is absolutely stellar, the class system is loads of fun.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:46
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FF6 has a lot more characters and a lot more setting than FF5, but that doesn't make it better. Don't confuse breadth with depth. While most of the characters do have stories (calling them arcs suggests the characters change over the course of them, most of them are just vignettes about something in their past), they are scattershot in tone and highly variable in quality. Cyan seeing his entire country get murdered and having to come to terms with his family's death while riding on a haunted train, great! Setzer remembering that some cool ship is buried somewhere that his maybe girlfriend used to fly and now you have an airship again, lame. Like everything in FF6 from the magic system to the split parties, they threw in more stuff without actually trying to tie them into a thematically cohesive unit. It feels like a sloppy mess and has only gotten a pass because it was one of the first attempts to do a huge cast game and a lot of the separate parts are really good on their own.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:47
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Endorph posted:Maybe it's just love for the GBA translation then, but I definitely remember more FF5 lines and more character traits than FF6. Then again, Out of those characters you listed, I only really liked Celes, Sabin, Edgar, Shadow, and Setzer. Those five are definitely more complex than the FF5 crew, don't get me wrong, but I'd take 5 average characters that the game focuses on over 5 good characters that have to share screentime with a bunch of other people. FF6 just has way too many party members for its own good, at least in my opinion. I can't really agree that FFVI's characters have to share screentime. The characters who end up plot-light are Strago, Relm, Mog, Umaro. Gogo and arguably Gau. Of those, one joins and basically has no screentime, two join right at the tail-end of the WoB, and three are optional and two only join in the WoR and have a single scene in the entire game. If there is a problem with those characters it is that they're underutilized, not stealing screentime. Authorman posted:Setzer remembering that some cool ship is buried somewhere that his maybe girlfriend used to fly and now you have an airship again, lame. That isn't really what happens at all. Setzer's plot is about coming to terms with a tragedy and realizing it doesn't have to cripple you, which is pretty thematically significant as the moment that the World of Ruin turns from "we're hosed" to "we're going to fight back." FFV's cast in comparison has no arcs at all aside from maybe Galuf. The closest is rediscovering elements about the past and Bartz/Faris having "okay, I'm going to be a hero now" stuff which gets resolved before you even unlock the job system. It lacks both breadth and depth. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 18:50
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The White Dragon posted:I'd rank Paladin's Quest leagues above 7th Saga. I'm not sure if I can agree with that. 7th Saga was, uh, unique, but Paladin's Quest could've been the poster child for filler RPGs. I rented and played through it twice, but I couldn't tell you a single thing about it now. Like, I don't even remember the main character's name. Someone even mentioned the magic system to me recently and I thought "huh, that sounds weird." At least I retained some stuff about 7th Saga. Not a lot of it is great, but hey it's there and that counts for something.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:52
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ImpAtom posted:I can't really agree that FFVI's characters have to share screentime. The characters who end up plot-light are Strago, Relm, Mog, Umaro. Gogo and arguably Gau. Of those, one joins and basically has no screentime, two join right at the tail-end of the WoB, and three are optional and two only join in the WoR and have a single scene in the entire game. If there is a problem with those characters it is that they're underutilized, not stealing screentime.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:53
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ImpAtom posted:
Yeah, Setzer's whole character arc is basically him learning to give a poo poo again, since he hides his emotions away behind petty love affairs and his casino ship. The only character who lacks any real plot is Gogo and Umaro and maybe Mog, everyone else has a clear beginning, middle and end.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:55
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Endorph posted:Well, like I said, I didn't find Terra or Locke that interesting and they eat up a lot of the screentime, especially early in the game. If you like those characters it's probably a lot less of a problem. Well, I think it's perfectly fair to dislike a character, but that doesn't mean that character doesn't have plot or characterization. You can dislike Terra but it's not hard to trace her character arc or character traits. (I don't like Terra much myself either, I preferred Celes as the lead.) BloodWulfe posted:I'm not sure if I can agree with that. 7th Saga was, uh, unique, but Paladin's Quest could've been the poster child for filler RPGs. Yeah, I admit, I prefer a bad-but-memorable game over one that is so bland it may as well not have existed.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:57
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Srice posted:I think the best thing you can say about FFV's story is that it isn't aggressively terrible. It's really generic and the cast is bland, but the story isn't dumb outside of a few goofy things that aren't taken too seriously to begin with. A lot of it does feel pretty generic, but I always thought FFV had a really underrated villain: a tree. He's just straight up evil too, and that's why he wants to destroy the universe. No evil dude melodramatic monologuing about ruling the masses or reaching the promised land, just "hey I'm evil gently caress y'all." I mean, c'mon, he turns into a splinter in order to travel between worlds. The guy is great.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:00
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BloodWulfe posted:At least I retained some stuff about 7th Saga. Not a lot of it is great, but hey it's there and that counts for something. All I remember about 7th Saga is my buddy was all "oh yeah dude just pick
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Sep 14, 2014 19:06
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If you didn't pick the robot in 7th Saga I don't know what to tell you.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:19
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I would put VI after Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, FFIV, and Secret of Mana. I think the quality of VI drops off in the second half. It's still one of the best SNES games, but I just never look forward to replaying the second half. On account of it being completely non-linear and that you're not required to have any particular character in your party most of the time, the plot and meaningful character interaction becomes non-existent. So that half is always really boring to me. Don't forget about Terranigma. Solid ARPG elements and a sense of scope/importance to the story that sticks with you (and sticks it to you) all the way to the end, with only a few gameplay-related frustrations or flaws (see: Bloody Mary). Or for that matter, Illusion of Gaia, which also tends to get overlooked when people mention SNES action RPGs. SiteMeister fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 19:22
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ImpAtom posted:FFV's cast in comparison has no arcs at all aside from maybe Galuf. The closest is rediscovering elements about the past and Bartz/Faris having "okay, I'm going to be a hero now" stuff which gets resolved before you even unlock the job system. It lacks both breadth and depth. It doesn't really try to have depth in plot or characters. It knows what it's going for (FF1 throwback) and nails it perfectly. Sticking the landing on a simple plot is much more satisfying than stumbling through a too overambitious plot. SiteMeister posted:Or for that matter, Illusion of Gaia, which also tends to get overlooked when people mention SNES action RPGs. Have you tried playing that game recently? It has aged terribly.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:31
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Authorman posted:It doesn't really try to have depth in plot or characters. It knows what it's going for (FF1 throwback) and nails it perfectly. Sticking the landing on a simple plot is much more satisfying than stumbling through a too overambitious plot. It isn't trying to be a FF1 throwback though. It's trying to be a FF3 throwback. (Both the villains even use The Void.) Regardless, I can't really agree it sticks the landing. The only reason anyone remembers anything fondly about FFV besides Gilgamesh is the GBA translation. Otherwise it is one of the driest and most boring FF game plots out there. It is carried almost entirely on the back of its really strong mechanics. I still like it a lot and the GBA translation helps it, but that's more a case of them realizing there was so little to gently caress up that they might as well have fun with it. Authorman posted:Have you tried playing that game recently? It has aged terribly. It really hasn't aged terribly. It's certainly aged but it's a pretty fun action-RPG. Terranigma is a better version of the same game though. (And I'd argue Soul Blazer is a bit more interesting in level design too but has a much more boring setting.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 19:35
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FFV is probably one of my least liked FF games, the story and characters were non-existent and I've always found job systems to be way too grindy for me, it's better than the NES games and FF8 (lol FF8) but that's about it.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:40
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Authorman posted:Have you tried playing that game recently? It has aged terribly. It is pretty slow-paced in comparison to Terranigma, but when I last played it a few years ago it didn't seem that bad mechanically. Maybe the animations are a little stiff. I'm curious what parts of it you found haven't aged well, though.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:41
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Sakurazuka posted:FFV is probably one of my least liked FF games, the story and characters were non-existent and I've always found job systems to be way too grindy for me, it's better than the NES games and FF8 (lol FF8) but that's about it. Grinding the job system borders on missing the point. You not actually supposed to be a master of everything in the course of a playthrough.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:46
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Head Hit Keyboard posted:Grinding the job system borders on missing the point. You not actually supposed to be a master of everything in the course of a playthrough. My OCD doesn't recognise that as a possibility.
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Sep 14, 2014 19:55
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ImpAtom posted:It really hasn't aged terribly. It's certainly aged but it's a pretty fun action-RPG. Terranigma is a better version of the same game though. (And I'd argue Soul Blazer is a bit more interesting in level design too but has a much more boring setting.) Yeah, I agree. Honestly I think the whole Soul Blazer Trilogy has aged well. No surprise that they got better as the series grew, but even Soul Blazer still feels pretty good mechanically. It'll always be really satisfying to rebuild a town by exploring a dungeon imo. Illusion of Gaia had some pacing issues but I feel like the cool locations and goofy pig/poison scenes made up for a lot of that. e:  See you later goat. 
BloodWulfe fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 20:03
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