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Waroduce posted:is the word bearers trilogy bad? I just couldn't go past the first book (which I struggled finishing anyway). The writing was bad and the characters one dimensional. Maybe it was wrong of me to try reading it after The First Heretic.
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Sep 12, 2014 08:07
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The WB trilogy definitely isn't bad. Anthony Reynolds' take on the Word Bearers is definitively 'Warriors first, zealots second' and his Word Bearers tend to do a lot of military stuff and do it well (though be prepared for quite a bit of bolter porn). There is some apprentice / master evil backstabbing but aside from that the Chaos Marines generally get on with each other. The characters are OK, there's not the level of atmospheric build up like Talos and crew but they become likable enough in their own way, and some are genuinely friends which at the time was refreshingly new. Personally since the Word Bearers are My Pet Legion its nice to know there's one book series where they actually get to kick rear end and be competent bad guys. The more recent offerings in the Horus Heresy have had the WB'ers be a combination of almost comedy evil Big Bad characters like Erebus and Kor-Phaeron who along with a smug weepy Lorgar control a nameless endless supply of red armoured religious drones to be sacrificed / left behind / betrayed or used as useless cannon fodder who are always comically inept. That said, it is a lot of pages of fresh sickle magazines being slammed into bolters and so on, very much in the vein of older style Warhams novels where the focus was Only War. If you can handle some occasional one dimensional Evil moments and a lot of fighting (some of it one-sided) then its a decent trilogy which definitely ranks among the above average books on offer in 40k.
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Sep 12, 2014 12:59
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Can I get some opinios on which of the space marine battle series are good? Ive read helsreach, and I know vattle of the fang is good, but what should I put at the top of the list or avoid E: read Legion of the damned. I heard wrath of iron is good too? Waroduce fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Sep 12, 2014 |
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Sep 12, 2014 14:09
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Pyrolocutus posted:I've read Ahriman: Exile, Blood of Asaheim, and Battle of the Fang, and found all of them good reads. I think my preferred priority would be Battle of the Fang > Ahriman:Exile > Blood of Asaheim, but you probably can't go wrong with any of them. I would actually reverse the order and go Blood of Asaheim > Ahriman Exile > Battle for the Fang. I'm 2/3rds of the way through Battle for the Fang now and while I certainly liked it, I didn't think any of the immortal characters were particularly interesting. It doesn't seem like anyone really has any Hard Choices and the whole thing is just a battle after some tough circumstances after another battle after some more tough circumstances, with everyone along for the ride. I guess I liked the Dreadnoughts. It's not a bad book, but I didn't enjoy it nearly so much as Prospero Burns, which had to overcome a lot of the same problems--[mostly] long-dead characters and a literally foregone conclusion. To the dude asking the question--they're all pretty good.
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Sep 12, 2014 14:54
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Waroduce posted:Can I get some opinios on which of the space marine battle series are good? Ive read helsreach, and I know vattle of the fang is good, but what should I put at the top of the list or avoid Rynn's World is B-movie bolter porn. It's not horrible, it's just fraught with typos and grammatical errors and features a lot of Ork punching. I only reread it because Crimson Fists were my pet chapter for a long time.
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Sep 12, 2014 15:23
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Sramaker posted:I almost brought the Night Lords Omnibus but then i remembered what i read about them in this thread so i didn't buy it, also the fact i already brought a bunch of Warhammer novels five days earlier so i got myself some Dune novels instead. Like, Frank Herbert Dune novels, or the Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson atrocities? Because if the latter, do yourself a favor and gouge out both your eyeballs with your own thumbs now.
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Sep 12, 2014 15:47
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Phanatic posted:Like, Frank Herbert Dune novels, or the Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson atrocities? Because if the latter, do yourself a favor and gouge out both your eyeballs with your own thumbs now. Frank Hebert obviously.
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Sep 12, 2014 19:31
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Waroduce posted:Can I get some opinios on which of the space marine battle series are good? Ive read helsreach, and I know vattle of the fang is good, but what should I put at the top of the list or avoid I think you've read the best. Read Battle of the Fang next, and afterwards you can try Death of Integrity which I found quite interesting. Out of the others that I've read, Wrath of Iron is OK, The Gildar Rift and Siege of Castellax are mediocre, Death of Antagonis is bad and boring, Rynn's World is just bad while Malodrax is a crime against nature and good literature (and incidentally or not half of the novel is a rehash of one of Counter's previous books featuring justicar Alaric).
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Sep 12, 2014 21:54
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I liked 15 Hours for a melodramatic IG story. Last Chancers was alright as well.
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Sep 13, 2014 03:02
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I read the Last Chancers omnibus; it was okay. For a Dirty Dozen in space adventure, I didn't enjoy it as much as I was hoping to.
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Sep 13, 2014 03:05
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Anomandaris posted:I think you've read the best. Read Battle of the Fang next, and afterwards you can try Death of Integrity which I found quite interesting. Out of the others that I've read, Wrath of Iron is OK, The Gildar Rift and Siege of Castellax are mediocre, Death of Antagonis is bad and boring, Rynn's World is just bad while Malodrax is a crime against nature and good literature (and incidentally or not half of the novel is a rehash of one of Counter's previous books featuring justicar Alaric). I would put Wrath of Iron somewhat better than just OK, at least by the standards of the 40K canon. But I guess ultimately we agree that it's worth a pickup, so this post is probably redundant. 
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Sep 13, 2014 03:20
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Rynn's World is actually basically solid decent bolter porn, sorry. There's character development and everything.
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Sep 13, 2014 05:56
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VanSandman posted:Rynn's World is actually basically solid decent bolter porn, sorry. There's character development and everything.
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Sep 13, 2014 07:20
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Are all the Ciaphas Cain novels good?
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Sep 13, 2014 20:48
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Sramaker posted:Are all the Ciaphas Cain novels good? Of course, if I'd known then what I'd known now, I would have ran screaming into the night to locate a small hole to hide in. Of course, I didn't know that, and even if I had, my desire to keep enjoying the high provender that came from my ill-deserved reputation as a hero, may have thrust me into danger even if I knew. As it was, I just had to hope that my plegmatic and malodorous comrade Jurgan, with his trusty meltagun, would be enough to protect me. And with one last look at the generous decolletage of the nearby noblewomen, (and Sulla's equine features*), I plunged of into the night. * This of course, being the future Lady General Sulla, who is terrible at writing, which I will point out repeatedly.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:04
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Sramaker posted:Are all the Ciaphas Cain novels good? They're fun. Do not under any circumstances read them back to back.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:06
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Waroduce posted:is the word bearers trilogy bad? It's aggressively mediocre. The action flows weirdly, with almost no tension and bland climaxes. Other nemeses are introduced just because ("Well, I guess some necrons show up now. And some Dark Eldar, those are kinda cool too"). It has some stronger points: the POV chapters of mortals in a chaos-occupied world slowly being corrupted was genuinely decent, and their fanatic Dreadnought stuck in the the siege of Terra was also entertaining. I really didn't like how they just threw in an Imperator titan as a threat only to deal with it two chapters later. Eh, send some terminators at it, it's solved. In Betrayer, two legions with over ten times the numbers the Word Bearers had in that book and their own Titan Legio collectively poo poo their pants when an Imperator shows up, and divert every resource they have to take it before it can finish the fight instantly.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:20
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Are there any books outside the earlier Gotrex and Felix, Thanquol and Boneripper, and Nagash series for Fantasy that are fun to read?
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Sep 13, 2014 21:31
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VanSandman posted:They're fun.  What do you mean?
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Sep 13, 2014 21:35
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Sramaker posted:
They are extremely similar in plot and tone and jokes.
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Sep 13, 2014 21:39
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amuayse posted:Are there any books outside the earlier Gotrex and Felix, Thanquol and Boneripper, and Nagash series for Fantasy that are fun to read? Fell Cargo by Dan Abnett is good and fun, swashbuckler as gently caress. Honourkeeper is pretty good, probably the best thing written by Nick Kyme. Read a review of this book with a comment made by Nick himself. The duology Sword of Justice/Sword of Vengeance, by Chris Wright, is solid, although the quality takes a dive in the middle of the second book. Gilead's Blood is sort of ok, as far as I remember (sorry, read it more than a decade ago). As the OP says, the Malus Darkblade series is interesting, especially if you like dark elves. It's like a more asholish version of Elric of Melniboné without the (good) bizarre/weird parts. Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 23:56
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Sephyr posted:I really didn't like how they just threw in an Imperator titan as a threat only to deal with it two chapters later. Eh, send some terminators at it, it's solved. In Betrayer, two legions with over ten times the numbers the Word Bearers had in that book and their own Titan Legio collectively poo poo their pants when an Imperator shows up, and divert every resource they have to take it before it can finish the fight instantly. TBF, I can sort of forgive the collective body of BL authors for occasionally having a loose or inconsistent grasp on the relative power of units and technologies, when GW/BL themselves seem to be unable to consistently settle on it. Are Terminators one-man battle tanks just this side of invulnerable, or are they cannon fodder? Who wins in a battle between an Astartes and an unaugmented human? Hrm, depends on what day of the week it is and which card of the Emperor's Tarot gets flipped up.
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Sep 14, 2014 00:48
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JerryLee posted:TBF, I can sort of forgive the collective body of BL authors for occasionally having a loose or inconsistent grasp on the relative power of units and technologies, when GW/BL themselves seem to be unable to consistently settle on it. Basically this. One book you have Iron Snakes where literally one dude goes to defend a planet from Dark Eldar, then you have hundreds of Sons of Horus in Vengeful Spirit dying to massed fire in trenches. Are Space Marines super rare demigods whose bass voices cause rib pain, and whose actions are so fast the human eye can barely keep up (Legion)? Or are they mass produced slightly taller and stronger guys who go down to a lucky shuriken shot like in the tabletop game?
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Sep 14, 2014 01:20
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They're whichever the plotline needs
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Sep 14, 2014 01:34
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Big Willy Style posted:They're whichever the plotline needs Yeah, that is the way it usually ends up being. Point is, the Imperator Titan issue works the same way.
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Sep 14, 2014 02:04
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VanSandman posted:They are extremely similar in plot and tone and jokes. Big Willy Style posted:They're whichever the plotline needs
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Sep 14, 2014 04:35
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amuayse posted:Are there any books outside the earlier Gotrex and Felix, Thanquol and Boneripper, and Nagash series for Fantasy that are fun to read? I enjoyed the Genevieve Undead stories. Although that's pretty much the only fantasy book I've read so far.
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Sep 14, 2014 12:13
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Anything by Jack Yeovil is great. Gotrek and Felix pre-Giantslayer is fun oldschool Fantasy. Gilead's Blood is great but Gilead's Curse is a bit weird. If you can find them the old 2nd ed WHFRP tie-in novels were solid, but I can't remember much besides that. The Wine of Dreams is an amazing standalone book that's super low-key and yet really insightful into what Chaos, specifically Slaanesh, can do to people while staying relatively hidden.Angry Lobster posted:As the OP says, the Malus Darkblade series is interesting, especially if you like dark elves. It's like a more asholish version of Elric of Melniboné without the (good) bizarre/weird parts.
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Sep 14, 2014 17:15
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In the defence of the Word bearer book, and the way they handle Imperator titans, they do seem geniunely alarmed at it's appearance, but they have been fighting for 10,000 years, used the terrain excellently, and it was guarded by Guardsmen instead of Space Marines, so it makes sense that they handle it better than a huge force encountering an Imperator relatively early in the Heresy when they don't have much experience.
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Sep 14, 2014 18:19
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Safety Factor posted:Stop after God Emperor. Do not continue. God Emperor is my favorite of the series, but things get really weird and bad after that. God Emperor was a good kind of weird. That book hosed with my head when I read it at 17.
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Sep 14, 2014 21:53
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Safety Factor posted:Stop after God Emperor. Do not continue. God Emperor is my favorite of the series, but things get really weird and bad after that. There are 2 great Dune books. Dune, and God Emperor. They both could stand alone, separate from the series, as some of the greatest fiction ever written. Dune Messiah is kind of like a short story padded out into a full novel. Children of Dune was...out of place. It really only exists to set-up God Emperor, but even then going into God Emperor after reading Dune you don't lose anything important. Heretics and Chapterhouse are the "old weird man" legacy of Herbert, similar to how Heinlein went from "hard conservative military fanboy" to "free love liberal hippy". Any Dune book after is a product of the mediocre son and Kevin J Anderson (The Star Wars writer so bad other Star Wars writers look down on him).
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Sep 14, 2014 22:50
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pentyne posted:There are 2 great Dune books. Dune, and God Emperor. They both could stand alone, separate from the series, as some of the greatest fiction ever written. So i should avoid The Road to Dune? Another thing is Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune both mention (I did look at the back of the books but didn't buy them) say based directly on "Frank Hebert's fanl outline" so does that mean after he became a weird old man? Yeah Kevin J is not a good writer (i have som of his Star Wars novels (I didn't know better when i was younger) and the only Star Wars thing he made i found okay was the Tales of the Jedi comics) but besides him and Karen Traviss who else was a bad Star Wars writer? Which ones were good (besides Timothy Zahn) and which were just plain in between? Warhammer related: The Sisters of Battle novels by James Swallow are they okay?
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Sep 14, 2014 23:32
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Sramaker posted:So i should avoid The Road to Dune? They are good nun-bolter porn with a side-order of interesting plots and fun characters.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:36
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Sramaker posted:So i should avoid The Road to Dune? Aaron Allston was great. Michael Stackpole was mediocre, although some if his stuff ranged from merely ok to decent. Crispin was ok. It goes downhill from there.
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Sep 15, 2014 02:48
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Preechr posted:Aaron Allston was great. Michael Stackpole was mediocre, although some if his stuff ranged from merely ok to decent. Crispin was ok. It goes downhill from there. What was worse, Karen Traviss obsession with the Mandalorians or that time The Clone Wars had a Mandalorian tell Obi-Wan that Jango was never a Mandalorian? Oh yeah they did that in the first (or close to that) episode where Mandalore (the planet) showed up.
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Sep 15, 2014 03:22
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Karen Traviss and her hard on for Mandos was way way worse. Ive seen it said she should write 40k but it would be horrible. One of her gears of war books it beat for beat the same book as she wrote for star wars its crazy she got away with it
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Sep 15, 2014 03:52
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VanSandman posted:They are good nun-bolter porn with a side-order of interesting plots and fun characters. Did we read the same book? I read Hammer and Anvil, the one about the Ecclesiarch being evil, and it was boring as hell that I couldn't remember any details about it.
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Sep 15, 2014 03:53
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Schneider Heim posted:Did we read the same book? I read Hammer and Anvil, the one about the Ecclesiarch being evil, and it was boring as hell that I couldn't remember any details about it. I guess We have different tastes. I have a soft spot for plots that involve psyker weirdness, as well.
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Sep 15, 2014 03:57
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VanSandman posted:I guess We have different tastes. I have a soft spot for plots that involve psyker weirdness, as well. It was Catholic as hell, and I have enough of that stuff IRL. I think Flight of the Eisenstein was the best thing I've read from Swallow, and that's not even very good either.
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Sep 15, 2014 04:05
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VanSandman posted:They are good nun-bolter porn with a side-order of interesting plots and fun characters. Speaking of which, are there plans to put Red and Black into book form? Paper or ebook, either's fine. Schneider Heim posted:It was Catholic as hell, and I have enough of that stuff IRL. I think Flight of the Eisenstein was the best thing I've read from Swallow, and that's not even very good either. For me, the real draw of the SoB books was that they really caught the wholesale fanaticism of the Imperium, at least in my opinion. I'm also kind of religious in real life, so whenever I read about faith helping someone triumph over their trials, it really resonates with me.
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Sep 15, 2014 04:22
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