a delightful guy posted:

In my eyes Sweden is one of the only countries on earth making true of the moral values that built the social welfare system in the transition into a global society, and maintaining them even when the poo poo hits the fan. I'm all for sticking to the basic ideals: I believe life should be played on fair terms, whoever you are and wherever you live. I'm incredibly lucky to have been born here instead of, well, almost anywhere else on the planet, and I think the long-term goal of civilization is to make sure that as many other people possible get the same chance I did. That is my vision of society; not economic growth or personal freedom or whatever dumb poo poo people think they need.

There is a lot of terrible stuff going on in the world right now and Sweden is taking responsibility, carrying what part it can. The principle here is everything: that we as humans stick up for each other and help out. That's what the country is built on: that the strong help the weak, and that nobody is too strong not to be helped, and that nobody is too weak to not help.

We're rich as poo poo, all things said. Our standard of living is incredible. We can help, we have every possibility. So we should help.

Kainser posted:

Man, the leftist part of S has to be loving pissed right now.

Rutkowski posted:

Within half an hour of the announcement three different contacts within S told me they left the party. People are *mad*.

Phlegmish posted:

Scandinavia's standard of living, the stability of its institutions, and the social trust and capital that mark its societies are all rooted in its dominant culture. This state of affairs is not tied to the land, it's not a magical force floating through the air, it's something that is (re)produced day after day by actual people with specific ideas and attitudes laboring and interacting.

computer parts posted:

Actually I think large amounts of oil revenue is or was a strong contributing factor to the present state of affairs, so that is "from the land".

At least talking about Scandinavia, less so for Sweden specifically.

lullelulle posted:

I'm pretty drat mad myself. I understand that V/S/MP after the election results is quite stupid since it'd probably drive the middle towards the more right winged parties in 2018 and it won't even give them a majority. But to just close the door straight in Vs face with no discussion or anything? I think it's really stupid given how unstable the results are and I don't get why Löfven did it. Wouldn't it be best to keep as many doors as possible open?

Also http://www.svt.se/nyheter/val2014/vi-rads-inte-nyval it seems SD wants to create destabilise to force a re-election. I'm guessing this would benefit them (and possibly S) because of Reindfelt/Borg stepping down. Is this something that might actually happen? Has Sweden had any major re-election like that before?

Baudolino posted:

Yup we suck at integration. Seems like you just can`t combine social welfare with etnic plurarlity. Well there is no going back to how things used to be in Scandinavia even if we wanted to. So i supposed the only forward is to reform into hyper-randian societies. This will suck rear end but at least we can make multiculturalism work this way. I used to be all doom and gloom about immigration but now i am more relaxed. It will work out in the end, but we have to accept that everything about our culture and the we do things have to change. We have to embrace this change.

Baudolino posted:

You don`t actually know any of this. You are just hoping everything will continue as before. Frankly that is just stupid. I am sure Sweden has a swell future ahead. But it won`t be, it cannot remain as it is while still having very liberal immigration policies. When a large section of the population comes from a very different background they are going to start the changing countries they live in. So you really really cannot assume that people will still be doing all of these thing a hundred years from now You would have to concentrate them all in ghetto`s to avoid this. I am not saying anything will be lost. That is your words not mine. But things will change, radically. Only time can tell if this will be a net bonus or not. All that can be done is to embrace and manage this change. The majority population will have to meet the minority half way. Like for instance allowing Sharia courts to abritate in civil cases between muslim and for their verdicts to be legally binding.

lilljonas posted:

1958 was the last time, so it's not a thing we tend to do, no.

And Löfven is a right wing S and is quite open with it. He had a betongröv the size of a small van, and has never been fond of V. I saw several guesses that he'd rather lean on C or Fp than V even before the election. So this turn of events didn't surprise me that much.

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:

Especially not what with mandate allocation turning out as it did. If I was Löfven I'd shoot for a S + MP + C + FP coalition first as well.

It's not like V is going anywhere. Also, putting an end to retarded "blockpolitik" ought to be a goal unto itself.

DekeThornton posted:

The Social democrats have always made a point of keeping V att a clear arms length, just relying on them for passive support and never letting them into government. Considering how badly S polled when they picked a left of centre candidate in Juholt it's not exactly surprising decidedly right of center Löfven keeps up that proud tradition.

Karpaw posted:

Ho aj aj aj aj buff,
ho aj aj aj aj buff,
ho aj aj aj aj buff buff!
Ho aj aj aj aj buff.

Baudolino posted:

This is not a fairytale, it`s realism.

Rutkowski posted:

That still only gives them 49,5%

computer parts posted:

Actually I think large amounts of oil revenue is or was a strong contributing factor to the present state of affairs, so that is "from the land".

Neeksy posted:

So when is S gonna change its name since it's no longer going to be social-democratic anymore?

Baudolino posted:

The majority population will have to meet the minority half way. Like for instance allowing Sharia courts to abritate in civil cases between muslim and for their verdicts to be legally binding.

Ligur posted:

Captain Scandinaiva posted:

Some good news: http://expo.se/2014/nazistparti-utan-mandat_6639.html SvP, the Nazis, did not recieve any seats anywhere this time around.

Captain Scandinaiva posted:

As a member of a "criminally inclined" group of people (one of the largest immigrant groups in Sweden too!) aren't you even a little bit grateful for all the potential socialbidrag you could recieve by moving here?

Hob_Gadling posted:

I almost witnessed a fight between a Somali man somewhere around hit fourties and a native Finnish woman in her 60s tonight. Key was her yelling out loudly all immigrants are goddamn leeches, and him losing his patience after listening to it for half an hour. I went between them to prevent blows, so you could say I partook in the race war tonight.

Captain Scandinaiva posted:

Frankly, I think this is bullshit. That's looking at cultures like SD does, like something biological you inherit from your parents. There are constant negotiations, both between but also within cultures. Things like sharia law are foremost political, not cultural. I know a lot of muslims would not want to live under that legal system. Same thing with the hijab. A woman from Egypt might see it as a symbol of liberation, a woman from Iran will probably see it as a symbol of oppression and a woman from Indonesia might be indifferent. How do you meet objectively "half way" in that case? You can only be tolerant and allow a multitude of ways to dress. And I don't think that kind of tolerance is something unique to "western culture" (since, in fact, many westerners want to ban the hijab for instance).

I agree, naturally, that immigrants will influence their host country. But I think the majority's influence on the minority is much greater. And, as others have explained, the net influx of immigrants to Sweden isn't all that big. Perhaps religion will play a bigger role in our future society, perhaps new holidays will be celebrated. If anything is lost, it won't be missed. Whatever replaced it will simply be considered a natural part of our culture, "that's the way it's always been", as people like to say.

Randarkman posted:

Norway was already doing quite well for itself and most pieces of the welfare state were in place some time before oil became a thing, which wasn't really until the 1970s and didn't really take off truly until after OPEC started getting uppity at which point we became absurdly wealthy. Though the revenue the state is making off oil, owning some 50-60% stock in Statoil, is invested around the globe and saved rather than used to complement existing state revenue, though the oil thing helps in that it has created a whole bunch of well-paying jobs.

TLDR: Norway has a poo poo-ton of money that's basically buried, bet Swedes are jealous.

TLM3101 posted:

So jealous, in fact, that the Swedish king at first refused to show up for the bicentennial celebration of our constitutional convention. Then again, he's French, so I'm prepared to make allowances.

All joking about Knugen aside, though, we've been insanely lucky, and have been able to make some choices on the basis of our oil-wealth that would otherwise have been flat-out impossible. That Sweden has been able to reach similar standards of living and social services without the added boost from an industry like that is to the very great credit of the country, and I think it's a rather greater achievement than our own.

lilljonas posted:

We should not forget that Sweden has had the boon of sitting for centuries on mines (mainly copper, silver and iron) that has propped us up many times. as well as a forest industry that has also been very lucrative for very long periods. It's not quite oil, but we have been spoiled for natural resources as well.

nagel posted:

Let's not forget not getting bombed to smithereens in neither world war, going into the 50's with an intact infrastructure, while still getting some of that Marshall money. We made the most of it, but still, we had some nice advantages.

V. Illych L. posted:

Swedpol: Pan-Scandinavian back-patting thread

Konec Hry posted:

"925 av 6227 valdistrikt räknade", though.

Antti posted:

That kind of swing in a recount is unthinkable in an actual first world democracy with no funny business going on. It's simply an artefact of the recount only being completed in some of the districts.

TLM3101 posted:

All of which is true, though I'd argue that the Kiruna mines, at least, has been just as much a boon to us as it has been for Sweden thanks to shipping ore through Narvik.

Postorder Trollet89 posted:

Speaker of Parliament mentioned that the 300.000 foreign votes have not yet been counted at all. That could influence enough to change about 5 seats.

Edit: I doubt F! will be in aswell but I think it will be close than the preliminary results from election night. I'm also pretty sure the block gap will widen by a few seats,