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A Steampunk Gent posted:I'd venture there's some good middle ground between 'broad stroke parody everyone's in on' and 'something 0.1% of the audience ever realise is meant to be a joke' Brass Eye (or anything else by Chris Morris really) is a good example of something pretty radical and aggressive in its tone and subject matter which wasn't too subtle or convoluted to be mistaken for earnesty by most of its audience either. (And I'd certainly put Black Ops in the latter category; if it looks like a duck, people think it's a duck and espouse its duckly values ...)
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Sep 14, 2014 23:34
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setafd posted:Yeah, he killed the hell out of Liam Neeson, right Batman's no-kill and no-gun rules were originally a 'code of honor' thing, but have increasingly become reflexive choices that have nothing to do with tradition. Instead, they have everything to do with his anxiety concerning the fact that there is absolutely no traditional authority stopping him from killing - that he truly does operate 'above the law', afforded near-unlimited freedom thanks to his immense wealth. It should be pretty clear to anyone that these rules are not ethical stances but simply a means of feeling better about himself.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:42
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Antisemites love Borat, racists love The Boondocks. Have they failed to be blunt enough to qualify as satire? I don't disagree some people are always going to be stupid or ignorant enough to read satire, though I Borat's case I thought the 'satire' was more of a cynical take-it-or-leave it affair in how it portrayed the disgusting hill people of Kazakhstan, but yes if the overwhelming majority of people fail to read it as satire then it has failed; satire is a political statement and it exists to provoke and comment on society, if people cannot distinguish that from the genuine, unironic discourse of those it's set out to satirise it's failed to do so. 'CineD posters have interpreted the world, the point however is to change it.' No Dignity fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 23:46
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I don't disagree some people are always going to be stupid or ignorant enough to read satire, though I Borat's case I thought the 'satire' was more of a cynical take-it-or-leave it affair in how it portrayed the disgusting hill people of Kazakhstan, but yes if the overwhelming majority of people fail to read it as satire then it has failed; satire is a political statement and it exists to provoke and comment on society, if people cannot distinguish that from the genuine, unironic discourse of those it's set out to satirise it's failed to do so. So unless satire has explicit hyperbole, it can't be successful?
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Sep 15, 2014 00:02
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A Steampunk Gent posted:but yes if the overwhelming majority of people fail to read it as satire then it has failed; satire is a political statement and it exists to provoke and comment on society, if people cannot distinguish that from the genuine, unironic discourse of those it's set out to satirise it's failed to do so. Then is there any successful satire out there? I tend to think the opposite; if there are people out there taking a work of satire at face-value then that makes it stronger; it proves the satire is relevant and not just targetting straw-men.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:05
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I don't disagree some people are always going to be stupid or ignorant enough to read satire, though I Borat's case I thought the 'satire' was more of a cynical take-it-or-leave it affair in how it portrayed the disgusting hill people of Kazakhstan, but yes if the overwhelming majority of people fail to read it as satire then it has failed; satire is a political statement and it exists to provoke and comment on society, if people cannot distinguish that from the genuine, unironic discourse of those it's set out to satirise it's failed to do so. The joke in most of SBC's work is to reveal something about the unwitting participant, it's always about the reaction.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:09
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Unless your actual intent is to deliver a nebulous message, the ability to communicate the thing you want to communicate is an important skill that not all storytellers possess.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:10
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computer parts posted:So unless satire has explicit hyperbole, it can't be successful? That's not what I said. I said said satire cannot be successful, at least as an attempt to influence its society's discourse, unless people appreciate that it is satire, you're still welcome to enjoy it on its own merits anyway. Lord Krangdar posted:Then is there any successful satire out there? Splitting Image is often attributed to helping to discredit Mary Whitehouse's media censorship campaign, though generally it's hard to quantify the effects of satire on peoples opinions without, you know, a research grant or something. I conceed though that alot of the subjects of satire are ingrained authority and challenging their discourses is an uphill struggle, but if you don't at least try you're sure as hell not going to succeed. And again, obviously some people are going to buy into whatever you make unironically, but if that group is the overwhelming majority I don't what purpose it serves other than making an enlightened minority feel better about their superior intellect. The Black Ops games, as part of the CoD series, are marketed as jingoistic power fantasies to jingoistic young men who by and large absorb the material uncritically and in turn continue to be unpleasant racist people; even if Goyer wrote them as satire I fail to see how any part of that process lives up to the confrontational, critical tradition laid out by A Modest Proposal, Brass Eye, Four Lions and so forth.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:37
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I conceed though that alot of the subjects of satire are ingrained authority and challenging their discourses is an uphill struggle, but if you don't at least try you're sure as hell not going to succeed. And again, obviously some people are going to buy into whatever you make unironically, but if that group is the overwhelming majority I don't what purpose it serves other than making an enlightened minority feel better about their superior intellect. What about provoking and commenting on society for anyone in the audience willing to think it all through, whether that ends up being the majority or a minority; making them question and examine the issues and topics brought up in new ways? How do you know anything about the majority of the audience for those games? Without that, you know, research grant or anything. How could you know that "jingoistic young men who by and large absorb the material uncritically and in turn continue to be unpleasant racist people" are the majority there? A Steampunk Gent posted:...I fail to see how any part of that process lives up to the confrontational, critical tradition laid out by A Modest Proposal, Brass Eye, Four Lions and so forth. Since none of us have researched the majority reactions to A Modest Proposal, Brass Eye, Four Lions and so forth none of us can really say whether they were successful satires (by your standard). Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 01:01
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The Black Ops games exist as satire somewhere between Starship Troopers and the Michael Bay Transformers series.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:07
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After the credits of Black Ops 2, all the primary characters get together and perform as Avenged Sevenfold
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Sep 15, 2014 01:10
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Interesting. Someone apparently managed to record the audio of the Avengers 2 comic-con teaser, which I haven't seen talked about. Ultron is coming across as rather creepy, including a fairly unsettling remix of a classic Disney song.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:37
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I don't believe for a second that the creators of Black Ops II seriously believe any of what the game espouses (with the possible exception of Goyer, since he's a fascist piece of poo poo), but I also don't think it's satirical. It really came off to me as just a cynical attempt to tick every single box the "CoD demographic" (hyper-masculine 18-35 year old males with extreme right wing views) looks for, from the main menu all the way to the post-credits Avenged Sevenfold concert. Fun game, though.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:53
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The COD demographic is "all males".
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Sep 15, 2014 01:58
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I dunno, I'd be inclined to say that most people outside of the specific demographic I mentioned just don't care about that poo poo and buy CoD because they like shooting people over the internet. The bro-posturing and Oliver North cameos and Avenged Sevenfold concerts and poo poo like that are meant to rope people like this in. (Yes, that's an officially licensed CoD: Ghosts balaclava that batshit-crazy neo-Nazi militia member is wearing.)
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Sep 15, 2014 02:04
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It's fine if you don't like it. The demographic that COD is shooting for is "all males".
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Sep 15, 2014 02:07
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SALT CURES HAM posted:I don't believe for a second that the creators of Black Ops II seriously believe any of what the game espouses (with the possible exception of Goyer, since he's a fascist piece of poo poo), but I also don't think it's satirical. It really came off to me as just a cynical attempt to tick every single box the "CoD demographic" (hyper-masculine 18-35 year old males with extreme right wing views) looks for, from the main menu all the way to the post-credits Avenged Sevenfold concert. This is where I stand. In my limited view, everyone I personally know that loves COD games chews dip, shoots guns, hates Obama, Muslims, and would go into war and murder people in a loving heart beat. This isn't everyone in the world, of course. Just people I know. I mean, I do actually like the games, and I don't do/agree with any of that. But I like it for the production values and soundtracks. They make for a cool little interactive movie. I like that. But I don't think any of the people that I've talked too notice what I notice. They just like murdering the terrorists.
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Sep 15, 2014 03:39
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Whether CODBLOPS2 was intended as satire or not, it's already hampered by the fact video game writers and writing are hovering barely above the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality and capability. e: COD games are satire like Foodfight is.
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Sep 15, 2014 03:48
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I don't know about that. Maybe CODBLOPS can be interpreted as satire, but what is Foodfight's satirical message? We must all support branded goods and buying generics is like supporting fascism?
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Sep 15, 2014 04:00
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The MSJ posted:I don't know about that. Maybe CODBLOPS can be interpreted as satire, but what is Foodfight's satirical message? We must all support branded goods and buying generics is like supporting fascism? There's a lot more wrong with the Foodfight than the message.
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Sep 15, 2014 04:15
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Skwirl posted:There's a lot more wrong with the Foodfight than the message. I don't know that there's anything wrong with Call of Duty as long as you take it as a given that Red Dawn is what people are aiming for instead of a realistic take on American foreign policy.
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Sep 15, 2014 04:26
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CelticPredator posted:This is where I stand. In my limited view, everyone I personally know that loves COD games chews dip, shoots guns, hates Obama, Muslims, and would go into war and murder people in a loving heart beat. I'm not really a videogame person, but this is bizarre to me because the one dude I know who plays those games is a chill dude who smokes weed all day.
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Sep 15, 2014 04:48
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I'm not really a videogame person, but this is bizarre to me because the one dude I know who plays those games is a chill dude who smokes weed all day. Sounds like your typical gamer.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:04
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I think video games, and especially young male targeted ones, suffer from a very loud minority of terrible people. You don't hear the people not shouting "human being," "oval office," or "friend of the family" every other sentence because they likely aren't shouting anything, but even if it's only 10% who do that, if it's a game that has 32 people playing at the same time that means there's likely 3 people doing that any given game, if there's only 5 other people in a game, you'll still likely hear from at least one every other time you play.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:21
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CelticPredator posted:This is where I stand. In my limited view, everyone I personally know that loves COD games chews dip, shoots guns, hates Obama, Muslims, and would go into war and murder people in a loving heart beat. Aren't the people who would go into war in a heartbeat in limited supply to play video games, considering the low bar of entry for the military?
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Sep 15, 2014 05:24
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Sir Kodiak posted:Aren't the people who would go into war in a heartbeat in limited supply to play video games, considering the low bar of entry for the military? The bar's been getting higher and higher since the wars are drawing down.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:26
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I'm not really a videogame person, but this is bizarre to me because the one dude I know who plays those games is a chill dude who smokes weed all day. Yeah, the people I know who play Call of Duty are just the people I know who play video games casually, and, as mentioned, almost all male. The same audience as Madden
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Sep 15, 2014 05:32
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Sir Kodiak posted:Aren't the people who would go into war in a heartbeat in limited supply to play video games, considering the low bar of entry for the military? Lots of soldiers love those games because they joined to be those games, and in many cases see their ideal lives/careers reflected in those games. Its a really strange thing to witness.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:43
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Just about every dude I know plays CoD, but the ones who are CoD fans (versus just getting them because they're decent shootmans games with a consistently big multiplayer community) are scary, scary people.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:54
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Devoted fans of anything are weird though.
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Sep 15, 2014 06:12
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What about the fans devoted enough to buy Call of Duty comics?
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Sep 15, 2014 07:15
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Cardboard Box A posted:What about the fans devoted enough to buy Call of Duty comics? Looking at the cover I have to expect it to be Dredd esque satire.
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Sep 15, 2014 07:27
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I'm not really a videogame person, but this is bizarre to me because the one dude I know who plays those games is a chill dude who smokes weed all day. I live in a very white town in Colorado. So that could be it. (They smoke weed too.)
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Sep 15, 2014 07:30
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PriorMarcus posted:I wish the Dark Knight Rises had just gone insane and introduced Lazarus pits and brought back Neeson. It did have a Lazarus pit and did bring back Neeson/gift him a form of immortality (briefly), just neither were in the more literal way used in the comics.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:33
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Sentinel Red posted:It did have a Lazarus pit and did bring back Neeson/gift him a form of immortality (briefly), just neither were in the more literal way used in the comics. They should reverse-canonize it so that in the comics at the bottom of every Lazarus pit is an angry Uzbeki guy who punches you in the back so hard that you're fully healed of everything.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:21
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The official synopsis for Avengers 2 has been revealed. Emphasis mine.quote:Marvel Studios presents "Avengers: Age of Ultron," the epic follow-up to the biggest Super Hero movie of all time. When Tony Stark tries to jumpstart a dormant peacekeeping program, things go awry and Earth's Mightiest Heroes, including Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, The Incredible Hulk, Black Widow and Hawkeye, are put to the ultimate test as the fate of the planet hangs in the balance. As the villainous Ultron emerges, it is up to The Avengers to stop him from enacting his terrible plans, and soon uneasy alliances and unexpected action pave the way for an epic and unique global adventure.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:05
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The MSJ posted:The official synopsis for Avengers 2 has been revealed. Emphasis mine. Oh god, it's almost literally "Tony Stark tries to do what the bad guys (who are literal Nazis) tried to do in the last Captain America movie." Chris Evans should utter "I'm getting too old for this poo poo" at some point.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:33
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Skwirl posted:Oh god, it's almost literally "Tony Stark tries to do what the bad guys (who are literal Nazis) tried to do in the last Captain America movie." Chris Evans should utter "I'm getting too old for this poo poo" at some point. It'd be the ultimate blue balling of comic nerds if all the infinity gem stuff was a distraction from them actually building up to doing the civil war storyline in Avengers 3 instead.
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Sep 16, 2014 07:02
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Neo Rasa posted:It'd be the ultimate blue balling of comic nerds if all the infinity gem stuff was a distraction from them actually building up to doing the civil war storyline in Avengers 3 instead. And it will end with Peter Quill landing down in the middle of battle and uniting the warring sides with the power of dance.
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Sep 16, 2014 07:14
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Wait, so J.A.R.V.I.S. is going to become the Vision? Or does Paul Bettany just happen to be voicing both?
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Sep 16, 2014 07:15
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