|
like literally just making everything dig 4x4 instead of 3x3 would be a godsend. that's such a small change, and it makes digging so much less annoying
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 08:15 |
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Makes sense to me? The base game would generally not have you damaging huge amounts of tiles, so if that happens, it's probably not supposed to be happening, so disconnect the player as it's likely some sort of desync or cheating going on. Before, it was stored in zero places. Then the mod became popular, then a limit was patched in silently to two other files. I can see it being anti-grief protection, but it's present in singleplayer too. And as an aside, this is just one of my gripes: 1) Locked in warp times (no, this isn't based on time needed to gen a world, that's less than a second) 2) Beamaxemodgate 3) Tiy (I believe) stated he really doesn't want people to be able to build their own ships, and iirc the reason is "they rarely look good". This can be modded in, of course, but it struck me as an odd sentiment 4) Dedication to tedious 'caveman tier' (though I believe CF is finally starting to change their tune) 5) Patching out ores that drop from sand collapse??? And since it can be hard to tell from text, this post is made to be read with  tone of voice, not 
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
Evilreaver posted:3) Tiy (I believe) stated he really doesn't want people to be able to build their own ships, and iirc the reason is "they rarely look good". This can be modded in, of course, but it struck me as an odd sentiment that said I would like to see where he/whoever actually said that to be sure
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
Evilreaver posted:Before, it was stored in zero places. Then the mod became popular, then a limit was patched in silently to two other files. Isn't this because repairing the various ship systems is tied into game progress and they are still considering ship combat to the point that all the further upgraded ships are covered in cannons? I can see that being a giant nightmare to make work with the plans they have for ships. I mean, I guess shame on them for having a design document for ships that doesn't play well for people being able to build ships out of blocks? I mean, if it was something they ever hinted at as being a possibility I could see the point of this being a complaint, but it never was and they are not preventing people from modding it, but they are saying that if you want this then modders will have to figure out how to make it work with game progression. Also I am laughing at the fact that you honestly believe CF is going out of their way to prevent mods from happening. 
Enzer fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Sep 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
While I'm stupid and bad at searching SomethingAwful threads, I did manage to find this link corroborating my half-remembered story  Enzer posted:Also I am laughing at the fact that you honestly believe CF is going out of their way to prevent mods from happening. Not all mods, obviously, just the ones that go against their "vision", and more specifically "just the beamaxe mod" Edit: And not even that, all-in-all, since they could well have gone whole-hog and made it completely unmoddable and instead only made a small change that would made it from "change one line in a text file", which any monkey could do, to "hunt down 2 game system files and change them, plus the item file" which takes a little know-how, thus cutting off the casual modder. It felt petty, especially since it was an undocumented patch. Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Sep 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
Evilreaver posted:While I'm stupid and bad at searching SomethingAwful threads, I did manage to find this link corroborating my half-remembered story Look, it might feel petty to you, but it's not. Chucklefish isn't trying to break anyone's mods. Chucklefish is wrestling with how to get their design document into software, and at this stage, that frequently involves rewriting software/configuration conventions to enable the game to work the way they need it to. And I don't mean "work" in terms of balance, I mean in terms of implementation. They may need to add new attributes to new configuration files in order to allow something really fundamental to how the game works mechanically, like the ability to make the same tool better. This is an alpha game. Its "spec" is unfinished and mods that are using that spec are going to be broken constantly. Chucklefish absolutely should never ever even once delay an update to their alpha spec to make a mod work. If you want your mod to not break, wait until release to implement it. Period.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
I would assume the SP game runs on largely the same code as the MP game, you just run a local server with no slots, you can 'disconnect' from a half life level if you want to, again it's not very unusual.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I would assume the SP game runs on largely the same code as the MP game, you just run a local server with no slots, you can 'disconnect' from a half life level if you want to, again it's not very unusual. Yes. And it's a real chore to build in some kind of elastic configuration system that says "If you're the only player on a one-slot server then don't apply these rules; apply those rules". These kinds of things get added very near the end of a game's development cycle, not in alpha.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
Evilreaver posted:Before, it was stored in zero places. Then the mod became popular, then a limit was patched in silently to two other files. I know this isn't really 100% related but unless it's changed in the last month or so but I figured out how to recheat it. I cant look atm because I'm on my phone though sorry.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 21:03
|
|
|
Evilreaver posted:5) Patching out ores that drop from sand collapse??? This will always bug me, now and forever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 21:07
|
|
|
Babe Magnet posted:This will always bug me, now and forever. It's straight up a completely stupid change. At that point, just remove ores from sand-type blocks period. There is no gameplay functionality to that change what-so-ever. It is a punishment to the player (you lose this ore because we say so!) that serves no real purpose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
They patched that out? Sand surfing for ore was one of the best parts of the game :P
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 23:30
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:It's straight up a completely stupid change. At that point, just remove ores from sand-type blocks period. There is no gameplay functionality to that change what-so-ever. It is a punishment to the player (you lose this ore because we say so!) that serves no real purpose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
various cheeses posted:Well it's certainly better than before, when a goon made a well-drawn comic submission that had an old Hylotl mom as a sterotypical Asian mom Not so sure about that, but I appreciate and will take that compliment!  This is how I'm treating the thread after coming back here like half a year later. Amazing coincidence I check what's new here shortly after you posted that, and I completely ignored this thread for months hoping to come back to a surprise... Well, I got my wish. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 23:54
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:like literally just making everything dig 4x4 instead of 3x3 would be a godsend. that's such a small change, and it makes digging so much less annoying In the Nightly builds, and for the next update, the MM can be upgraded to cover a ridiculous square area, not sure how big at max but 4x4 is easily obtainable
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
Magmarashi posted:In the Nightly builds, and for the next update, the MM can be upgraded to cover a ridiculous square area, not sure how big at max but 4x4 is easily obtainable Of course. Now that the conspiracy has been unveiled they were forced to backtrack to hide the evidence.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 04:44
|
|
|
RandomBlue posted:Of course. Now that the conspiracy has been unveiled they were forced to backtrack to hide the evidence. Yes, clearly
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 05:11
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:It's straight up a completely stupid change. At that point, just remove ores from sand-type blocks period. There is no gameplay functionality to that change what-so-ever. It is a punishment to the player (you lose this ore because we say so!) that serves no real purpose. Zereth posted:Yeah, even if you're using a suitable level pickaxe unless you're doing it from the top in a way which never disturbs the sand causing it to fall, you're going to lose a lot of ore. I asked about this in the IRC, and apparently it's because getting the ore "for free" when you set off a cascade of sand is "too easy" and there's "no risk or danger" associated with it so no fun or visually interesting thing because saving yourself 15 seconds of digging through the easiest material to dig through in the game, while also maybe discovering an underground cavern is too "unbalanced"
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:11
|
|
|
Babe Magnet posted:I asked about this in the IRC, and apparently it's because getting the ore "for free" when you set off a cascade of sand is "too easy" and there's "no risk or danger" associated with it That's really stupid and does not give me much hope that they have any capability of competently balancing the rest of the gameplay. On the old progression system, in several hours of gameplay, with ore in sand, I still only just beat the first boss. It also does not save much time when you are fighting against an avalanche of falling sand. It is utterly baffling how many game designers fall into the same bad idea trap of thinking that dumb speedbumps make a game more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:16
|
|
|
How is that getting it 'for free'? The only investment is time, and it's not like you get ore super fast that way. It's just a fun, satisfying thing you get(got) to do every once in a while.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:22
|
|
|
I'm not saying it's a good implementation, but I think the idea is that you could use this method to mine ores you couldn't get otherwise because your pick isn't strong enough.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:25
|
|
|
but that's cool they don't need to protect the sanctity of the grindfest
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
Babe Magnet posted:I asked about this in the IRC, and apparently it's because getting the ore "for free" when you set off a cascade of sand is "too easy" and there's "no risk or danger" associated with it This, and the ore dropping thing make me wonder if they still have people actually playtesting the nightlies that aren't turbonerds. Or if they themselves are not, in fact, turbonerds.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:41
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:they don't need to protect the sanctity of the grindfest Which is why this game is tedious and unfun and will continue to be so until they change their minds and become less dumb grog nerds.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 08:44
|
|
|
Blhue posted:Or if they themselves are not, in fact, turbonerds. uh...
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 11:51
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:That's really stupid and does not give me much hope that they have any capability of competently balancing the rest of the gameplay. OR it's nightly, it's a small team, and some things are left temporarily broken when other priorities come up. Not every change represents a fully implemented design decision.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 12:45
|
|
|
Cheswick posted:OR it's nightly, it's a small team, and some things are left temporarily broken when other priorities come up. Not every change represents a fully implemented design decision. Broken? He quoted a post from a dev saying that is what they want. Can you double jump and dash at the same time yet?
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 12:47
|
|
|
Cheswick posted:OR it's nightly, it's a small team, and some things are left temporarily broken when other priorities come up. Not every change represents a fully implemented design decision. There were people raising a fuss and demanding attention/refunds because cave generation was disabled in Nightly builds for a while while I assume they were loving around with gen, and these people assumed that meant caves were being removed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 12:57
|
|
|
Hey so I haven't touched this since a couple months after the initial release, what's the polish like on the combat system? They were mucking with it last I played.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 14:04
|
|
|
Still mucking with it. Fatal drinking game: Take a shot every time someone comes into the Starbound thread to ask "I haven't played in X months, what's new?" and the answer is "well basically nothing".
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
something posted:Hey so I haven't touched this since a couple months after the initial release, what's the polish like on the combat system? They were mucking with it last I played. It's much better in Nightlies, but it still has quite a ways to go. All but the most aggressive nuisance enemies have a rather obvious tell. Monsters are not damage on touch anymore. They need to hit you with a projectile or actual attack animation for it to take off any HP Bandages, bows and even stuff from chests is either hard or impossible to find nowadays with the way cave generation currently (doesn't) work, so I've really only tested melee combat with no health regen. It has some potential, especially if they manage downtime with something better than bandages
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 14:12
|
|
|
Yeah the sandmining change is horrible and the Terraria-style obligatory pick tiers are a Bad Mechanic in an infinite sandbox like Starbound because they're basically tedium generators, but the changes to combat are pretty loving sweet so far. Also the game actually runs fairly well on my piece of poo poo computer now, which is incredible since it used to be unplayably laggy unless I dug down really deep or went to a moon or asteroid field. The outpost portals are pretty drat cool as well, especially if you can still steal them and put them in your ship so you have a permanent Town Portal to go chill with your outpost pals. You can also be a Novakid, kind of. From what I've seen using admin commands, the new equipment/crafting progression looks like it has the potential to be interesting. Upgraded Matter Manipulator owns owns owns. They just need to axe the awful, awful mining changes and we'll be looking at a hell of a game. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Sep 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 15:28
|
|
|
Yeah combat is looking like it can be something that's actually pretty cool, given by the changes they've made already and the changes they're going to make. Downtime was always a huge issue, so hopefully they'll figure out a way to deal with it that isn't just "healing items are more powerful", but it's not the end of the world if it does end up there. And yeah, the steps they took to making the game run better are definitely helping. Basically all of my friends that still play have said it runs better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
The sand thing was fun but I don't think it's a bad decision. Yes, removing it makes the game more grindy, and the game is already too grindy, but that's an issue of balance which isn't (or shouldn't be) the focus of development right now. Before they can focus on balance they need to create systems that play well off each other and fit together well. Like, this isn't the only issue, but consider that while sand avalanche mining was fun, it basically broke the entire Desert planet type. Removing planet-breaking mechanics is not a sign of a bad dev team. If there was a planet type that completely broke combat, that wouldn't be a good mechanic either. Let's say that in every Snow world, all the enemies died in one hit. It'd sorta be fun to rampage through monsters with no fear, but it'd totally trivialize combat. Would you also be opposed if that went away? Games are surely meant to be fun, but just because something gives you a quick thrill doesn't always mean it's the best design choice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
I'll agree the recent combat update looks good
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
Cheswick posted:OR it's nightly, it's a small team, and some things are left temporarily broken when other priorities come up. Not every change represents a fully implemented design decision. Babe Magnet posted:I asked about this in the IRC, and apparently it's because getting the ore "for free" when you set off a cascade of sand is "too easy" and there's "no risk or danger" associated with it Or it was already stated that it isn't a bug and that it is a design choice that they prefer. XboxPants posted:The sand thing was fun but I don't think it's a bad decision. Yes, removing it makes the game more grindy, and the game is already too grindy, but that's an issue of balance which isn't (or shouldn't be) the focus of development right now. Before they can focus on balance they need to create systems that play well off each other and fit together well. Those are two pretty different scenarios. The simple fix to this "problem" was making it so that ores generated in sand do not have sand physics. The problem isn't just that you can't quickly mine the ores, it is that it destroys the ores.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 18:32
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Those are two pretty different scenarios. The simple fix to this "problem" was making it so that ores generated in sand do not have sand physics. The problem isn't just that you can't quickly mine the ores, it is that it destroys the ores. That's quite an assumption you're making there that changing sand-ores to have special physics would be a "simple fix". They should obviously, obviously not just be destroyed in the avalanche, but do you really think that's going to be the final solution? Maybe stop playing the nightlies. In case you've forgotten: quote:This means that using the nightly branch will frequently destroy your saves or contain other game-breaking issues depending on what we’ve been working on that day. Only use this branch if you really really want to follow our progress and don’t care about breaking the game. You have been warned! XboxPants fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 18:38
|
|
|
Uhhh, I am expressing a dislike with a feature that they are currently testing. That is because I do not wish for this feature to become permanent. I wasn't aware that I was not allowed to express a negative feeling toward a game that I enjoy and have already paid for. And yes, making the ore generated in sand not have physics is literally a simple fix, because, having actually played the game for more than 60 seconds, anyone would see that blocks not effected by physics can already generate in and around sand. XboxPants posted:That's quite an assumption you're making there that changing sand-ores to have special physics would be a "simple fix". They should obviously, obviously not just be destroyed in the avalanche, but do you really think that's going to be the final solution? Since you seem to be continuously ignoring this statement, here it is again: Babe Magnet posted:I asked about this in the IRC, and apparently it's because getting the ore "for free" when you set off a cascade of sand is "too easy" and there's "no risk or danger" associated with it It is currently this way in testing because that is what they feel it should be. Now if Babe Magnet was lying for some reason, then oh well right, who gives a poo poo, life goes on? I'm not going to hang myself over it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
XboxPants posted:That's quite an assumption you're making there that changing sand-ores to have special physics would be a "simple fix". They should obviously, obviously not just be destroyed in the avalanche, but do you really think that's going to be the final solution? Why are you blathering about some unrelated point when someone's already established that removing sand surfing for ore was a deliberate, intentional change by the developers? I mean maybe he was lying about what they said but otherwise that seems pretty conclusive!
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 08:15 |
|
|
To be clear... There are two issues seperate here: The mechanic that was removed, and the one they replaced it with. I think it is reasonable that people are upset that they removed the sand-mining, but that it is not reasonable that people are upset about what it was replaced with. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2014 19:13
|
|