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   Alison killed a few people, yeah.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:04
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That terrorist who was burning Feral seemed pretty dead after Alison punched him. While I do not think that Hector is a bad person, this chapter has shown him to be childish and ultimately responsible for a lot of suffering. Alison may have left the Guardians in a bad place, but Hector, instead of reevaluating their place in the world, decided to double down on busting normal crime in order to overcompensate which, I personally think, made Moonshadow into the person she is today. Also, moonshadow is going to recruit these guys for her Xtreme 90s team in the sense of "If you refuse, of course I will need to kill you."
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Sep 16, 2014 21:07
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Unlucky7 posted:That terrorist who was burning Feral seemed pretty dead after Alison punched him. Feral's crew was pretty much a group of murderous vigilantes too and one of them is in jail for killing a judge as well.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:43
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:Feral's crew was pretty much a group of murderous vigilantes too and one of them is in jail for killing a judge as well. Yeah, Feral and company were the in-universe version of 90s comic book characters. Moonshadow's gonna need a new shtick.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:56
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Pavlov posted:Well, she's being pretty strangely tongue-in-cheek this page, its hard to tell exactly how serious she's being about any of it (except, perhaps, for the last bit). If she's serious about the cop bit, its not too much of a stretch to think she might be serious about the "boys, rapists, technically different" bit. You've got a persecution complex dude. Either that or you're complete rear end at reading comprehension.
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Sep 16, 2014 23:49
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She's not going to kill just because they know her secret or something they did in the past. She's going to kill them because someone double-dipped a nacho (during the party they're about to have) and that poo poo will not stand.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:32
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Small Frozen Thing posted:You've got a persecution complex dude. Either that or you're complete rear end at reading comprehension. Haha what? For saying it's possible that the serial killer could have some kind-of-lovely views hidden behind dismissive humor? If it makes you feel better I could shut up about it.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:39
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Warmachine posted:Yeah, Feral and company were the in-universe version of 90s comic book characters. Moonshadow's gonna need a new shtick. Nah. Well, you're spot on about Feral and co. Moonshadow's pretty solidly 00s-period. Identity Crisis and all that stupid overserious crap.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:42
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Pavlov posted:Haha what? For saying it's possible that the serial killer could have some kind-of-lovely views hidden behind dismissive humor? If it makes you feel better I could shut up about it. Sorry, it appears to be me with the reading comprehension issues. I'm hoping it doesn't go there though, it'd be cheap and wouldn't thematically resonate with Allison's approach.
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Sep 17, 2014 01:40
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Why not? Alison talked about being tempted to throw everyone who's a fan of Ayn Rand into the sun. The tendency to see people who believe evil things or do evil things as monsters instead of people is very strong. With that tendency comes a belief that it's OK to do anything to them because it will make the world better. I think you can see Moonshadow and Alison as two sides of how to react to that impulse.
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Sep 17, 2014 01:54
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No, I mean the "all men are rapists" idea. I read it as her dehumanizing her victims, viewing them as their crime first and as humans second. That's perfectly compatible with what you're saying.
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Sep 17, 2014 01:55
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I guess it's worth noting that extrajudicial killing of rapists isn't likely to have any kind of positive effect on rape statistics, instead making it more likely that rape victims will also become murder victims. I'm pretty sure Moonshadow has already figured that out though, and just doesn't give a poo poo.
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Sep 17, 2014 02:27
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Pavlov posted:I really hope she just has a good sense of humor and didn't just pull a serious "all men are rapists". I really hope you didn't just seriously misread the line as "all men are rapists." Projecting, much?
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Sep 17, 2014 03:20
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T.G. Xarbala posted:I really hope you didn't just seriously misread the line as "all men are rapists." Strong Female Protagonist posted:"Wait...you're the one who murdered those boys?" I don't think there's THAT much projection going on here, there are a few different directions this birthday party could go still, let's just let it play out a bit further and keep the speculations friendly. I hope we get to see what Graveyard is up to soon, we haven't seen her since she was showing Carver that interview and I want to see how Paladin's integration into society goes.
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Sep 17, 2014 03:37
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jesus she even acknowledged in that statement that its a small distinction. she's saying that she's executing them for being rapists, not killing them for being boys. also i think she's just telling them about this because she has an invulnerability complex from being a state-sponsored superhero. also from having superpowers, i suppose that would give someone a feeling of invulnerability. i like moonshadow  
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Sep 17, 2014 03:47
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Oh, I see. People are interpreting that as Moonshadow making a syllogism about men and rapists as opposed to boys. Rather than her justifying the murders she committed based on the alleged crimes of her victims rather than just focusing on her victims' age (and gender). Had to stop and think about it because I don't really care that a crazy serial killer might be a hardcore militant misandrist and don't have the mindset to immediately think that, if this were the case, that this represents the comic's core messaging and not, in fact, the latest supervillain being a villain and making their spiel. Honestly, if you think Allison and Moonshadow are going to get together and have a #KillAllMen campfire because of how similar their views must be, I don't know what to say.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:02
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thatbastardken posted:I guess it's worth noting that extrajudicial killing of rapists isn't likely to have any kind of positive effect on rape statistics, instead making it more likely that rape victims will also become murder victims. I'm pretty sure Moonshadow has already figured that out though, and just doesn't give a poo poo. It stops repeat offenders pretty well, I'd say.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:13
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Oh, I see. People are interpreting that as Moonshadow making a syllogism about men and rapists as opposed to boys. Rather than her justifying the murders she committed based on the alleged crimes of her victims rather than just focusing on her victims' age (and gender). Had to stop and think about it because I don't really care that a crazy serial killer might be a hardcore militant misandrist and don't have the mindset to immediately think that, if this were the case, that this represents the comic's core messaging and not, in fact, the latest supervillain being a villain and making their spiel. butbutbutbut #gamergate 
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Sep 17, 2014 04:47
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Pavlov posted:Well, she's being pretty strangely tongue-in-cheek this page, its hard to tell exactly how serious she's being about any of it (except, perhaps, for the last bit). If she's serious about the cop bit, its not too much of a stretch to think she might be serious about the "boys, rapists, technically different" bit. She's undoubtedly dead serious about the cop thing because, if you live in America (she does) and pay the slightest bit of attention (she obviously does), you would know it's Strictly True  The boys/rapists analysis is beyond silly and pointless though. It's a sufficiently improbable and ill supported interpretation as to not even be worth thinking about until there's more evidence. Any evidence, really. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 05:46
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It's pretty clear Moonshadow means both of those comments in semi-jest; they're negative and cynical in a facetiously exaggerated way, but there's a bitter ring of truth to them. Is killing people indiscriminately the police's job? No, but when they keep murdering unarmed teenagers for no reason it sure starts to seem that way. Is the line between "boys" and "rapists" so thin that the difference is little more than a technicality? No, but when 97% of rapists never spend a day in jail, it's hard ignore how easily the former might be the latter. Moonshadow's making a joke, not a stating a literal fact or presenting her actual unironic beliefs, but there's a nugget of truth in there all the same. I brutally murdered and severely overcomplicated the joke by explaining it, but this really isn't a difficult thing to see. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 07:55
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Opposing Farce posted:I brutally murdered and severely overcomplicated the joke by explaining it, but this really isn't a difficult thing to see. Better this than another PBF happening all over again.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:02
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Oh my god, I wish the birthday party would get here already so we could talk about something positive once again.
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Sep 17, 2014 08:35
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Captain Bravo posted:Oh my god, I wish the birthday party would get here already so we could talk about something positive once again. bad webcomic thread is that way
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Sep 17, 2014 09:00
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Opposing Farce posted:I brutally murdered and severely overcomplicated the joke by explaining it, but this really isn't a difficult thing to see. I've had it with your joke vigilantism.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:00
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ChairMaster posted:It stops repeat offenders pretty well, I'd say. That may be a fair point. I know with a lot of crimes recidivism rates are surprisingly low - most people only commit one murder, for instance - but I'm not sure if the same is true of rapists and a small amount of repeat offenders blow the statistics out.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:02
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Opposing Farce posted:It's pretty clear Moonshadow means both of those comments in semi-jest; they're negative and cynical in a facetiously exaggerated way, but there's a bitter ring of truth to them. Is killing people indiscriminately the police's job? No, but when they keep murdering unarmed teenagers for no reason it sure starts to seem that way. Is the line between "boys" and "rapists" so thin that the difference is little more than a technicality? No, but when 97% of rapists never spend a day in jail, it's hard ignore how easily the former might be the latter. Moonshadow's making a joke, not a stating a literal fact or presenting her actual unironic beliefs, but there's a nugget of truth in there all the same. Jesus fuckin christ, some of you people really can't read at all. She means the four boys she killed. Not the entirety of all boys ever. This is so friggin obvious, the opposite makes no sense at all.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:56
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ChairMaster posted:Jesus fuckin christ, some of you people really can't read at all. She means the four boys she killed. Not the entirety of all boys ever. This is so friggin obvious, the opposite makes no sense at all. ^This is my take on moonshadow's statements as well. If she had a bone to pick with all men; than all of those mercs would be dead and covered in paint and confetti. All she is doing is dehumanizing her victims by using their crime as a justification for her actions against them. Brought To You By fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 16:44
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Brought To You By posted:^This is my take on moonshadow's statements as well. If she had a bone to pick with all men; than all of those mercs would be dead and covered in paint and confetti. All she is doing is dehumanizing her victims by using their crime as a justification for her actions against them. She's doing that, yes; "It's rapists, not boys." What people are getting hung up on is the sentence immediately after that one: "It's tricky, but there is, technically, a difference," or in other words Opposing Farce posted:the line between "boys" and "rapists" [is] so thin that the difference is little more than a technicality Of course, you're probably not meant to take that statement at face value, because context tells us she is making a joke and does not actually have a vendetta against all men. Like I said this really is not hard. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Sep 18, 2014 |
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Sep 18, 2014 04:39
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Ok, so I know getting between someone and their outrage is generally a bad idea, but I'm just going to toss this out there as food for thought. Have none of you considered the possibility that when she says "It's tricky, but there's a difference", she's not talking about between boys and rapists... but between murder and execution? The thrust of her argument in the panel starts with her being in the right to execute rapists. She adds an aside, that calling them boys instead of rapists is ignoring the point, and then returns to her original point that it's alright to kill those who deserve it? Because, that's immediately how I read it. Like, I honestly had zero clue what you guys were talking about until Opposing Farce just spelled it out, and I still have a hard time believing that's the intended meaning, that boys and rapists are barely different.
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Sep 18, 2014 07:46
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Opposing Farce posted:She's doing that, yes; "It's rapists, not boys." What people are getting hung up on is the sentence immediately after that one: "It's tricky, but there is, technically, a difference," or in other words Honestly, since she uses that last phrase at the end of both statements it could be applied to either/or both, I can't pick up on the intended context.  Hopefully tomorrow one of the mercs picks up on that phrasing and caller her out on it.
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Sep 18, 2014 13:31
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Brought To You By posted:Honestly, since she uses that last phrase at the end of both statements it could be applied to either/or both, I can't pick up on the intended context. Spoiler: That won't happen.
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Sep 18, 2014 17:07
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More likely: "Hey, boss, stop antagonizing the invisible murder wizard."
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Sep 18, 2014 18:17
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Captain Bravo posted:Ok, so I know getting between someone and their outrage is generally a bad idea, but I'm just going to toss this out there as food for thought. That's a stretch because of how the speech bubbles are laid out. If it was reversed, saying "Rapists, not boys." "And it's executed, not murdered. Murder is a crime. It gets tricky, but there is, technically, a difference," that would make more sense. As it stands, that's reaching. If you spoke like the way the bubbles were laid out, the other person in the dialogue would be perfectly in their right to assume that you mean the technical difference between boys and rapists. That said, #KillAllMen is not likely her point here. It's been raked over in the past few posts, but she's labeling them by their crimes. No more than calling someone a thief, not a boy. It's a justification for killing them, and a dark commentary on how the world at large sees them because they got away with it/are 'just' kids. I also don't recall her having any prior characterization that suggests she's a misandrist. "Wait, you're the one who murdered those athletes?" "Executed. Murder is a crime. And it's rapists, not athletes. It gets tricky, but there is, technically, a difference." Maybe I'm being willfully dense, but I don't think there's any writing on this wall to see.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:24
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At this point I regret even bringing up the idea, which I only ever considered an off-hand possibility in the first place. People really love to dig into things in this thread it looks like.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:39
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Reading what she's saying here a little more closely, I wonder if she actually has some sort of legal mandate here, a federal carte blanche that supersedes local authority. Perhaps whatever jurisdictional power the Guardians were given (which seems to have been quite broad) was simply never revoked, even if using it to execute people who have been acquitted is against the spirit of the thing.
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Sep 19, 2014 07:25
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If normal people barely trust biodynamics at all already, a former government-appointed superhero going around and extrajudicially exceuting even acquitted criminals at her own discretion is going to make the world flip its lid, even if Moonshadow's latest shenanigans aren't explicitly sanctioned.
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Sep 19, 2014 07:34
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Captain Bravo posted:Ok, so I know getting between someone and their outrage is generally a bad idea, but I'm just going to toss this out there as food for thought. No, I agree. I feel that many in this thread are just sitting there waiting for this comic to go full on die cis-male so they can adjust their fedoras while feeling smug about the *real* feminist agenda finally be revealed.
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Sep 19, 2014 08:51
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Welp, it's party time.
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Sep 19, 2014 09:05
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Wittgen posted:Welp, it's party time. That's a hell of a party.
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Sep 19, 2014 09:10
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I'm curious why she felt these guys needed a sporting chance when she was perfectly fine with slitting the the throats of the boys and the judge with no warning. Is massacring Iraqi civilians somehow less of a crime than acquitting a quad of boys in the rape case that you preside over as a judge?
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Sep 19, 2014 10:20
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