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Ramos posted:TNN would probably be a staple for Fish and similar decks. It hasn't exactly stopped a lot of combo strategies that make up Legacy. Control strategies are also doing perfectly well. There's even aggressive decks that handle it just fine in the form of Death and Taxes and recently Infect. The interesting thing is that control strategies (meaning here, specifically Miracles) has been doing well almost as a direct consequence *of* True-Name Nemesis. Like, it's very difficult to justify running a creature deck that doesn't have access to TNN, and Terminus is probably the best answer to it there is.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:42
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Ramos posted:Every deck running a certain card as a four of doesn't define it as format warping either, just that they want that effect consistently. It's a poor measuring stick for warping considering that a lot of decks want four of with many things and even makes Supreme Verdict just as format warping if not more so. By the way you're defining "format warping," then I would agree with you and say no, its not format warping. I don't really have a problem with the card; I'm just speculating on why they might not want to reprint a card like that into standard.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:46
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quote:We quickly found out how good Ashiok and Villainous wealth is. The first match we played has such highlights as him casting Villainous wealth for 5 on turn 6 thanks to two Caryatids. He got Chandra, Courser, and Sarkhan. He then dropped my Sagu Mauler on me from Ashiok. The removal suite is awesome with Charm, Downfall, and Bile blight, and those with the fetches just power out late game empty the pits for 9 zombies. Sideboard of course has back to nature to combat constellation, drown in sorrow, the 4th bile blight, and clever impersonator (note on clever impersonator: he's really really great, but he almost always copies your opponent's planeswalker, which almost requires that you are behind in the game. This is a good thing. Play him. The fun thing about a BUG deck like this is that you can overwhelm removal in 1 turn. Korak fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 00:50
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Attorney at Funk posted:The interesting thing is that control strategies (meaning here, specifically Miracles) has been doing well almost as a direct consequence *of* True-Name Nemesis. Like, it's very difficult to justify running a creature deck that doesn't have access to TNN, and Terminus is probably the best answer to it there is. ? Death and Taxes and Elves are a thing, and while any Delver deck has access to TNN it's very rarely run as more than a 2-of even in UWR, the variant most likely to run it by a wde margin. RUG and BUG don't usually bother with it. The deck that runs the most copies is Fish, which is generally considered to be a very "eh" deck choice at the moment, and TNN is not essential to that deck's success. TNN definitely has a noticeable effect on the creature and removal choices of many Legacy decks, but it doesn't really have very much to do with Miracles being a fantastic deck.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:51
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They've already been combating the archetype by making basically all creature decks incredibly threat dense, and almost all decks are creature decks now. There aren't a lot of great counters or cantrips, just the huge effect on Sphinx's. I sort of hate haymaker Standard.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:51
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I've always had an on-again-off-again relationship with Magic over the years, but I've finally decided to knuckle down with 2015. I bought myself a Toolkit and a few boosters, so I'm at the stage where I'm deciding what kind of deck to build. Apparently my first pick, Blue/Green, was a fairly bizarre choice, so I'm wondering if I could get some basic deck archetypes I could make with Core Set cards.
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Sep 20, 2014 00:58
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LGD posted:? D&T and Elves are a thing, but they're also a prison deck and a combo deck, respectively. You rarely see midrange green decks anymore, where Maverick and Jund used to be things depending on the meta. The deck that runs the most *copies* of True-Name might be Fish but the card's best home is the midrange blue Stoneforge decks because it's the specific interaction of TNN with Legacy-playable equipment that's nigh-impossible to beat on the board. Miracles was an almost fringey presence in Legacy between the printing of Abrupt Decay and the adoption of True-Name Nemesis.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:02
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Sphinx's Revelation wasn't format warping. It was archetype warping. There was no reason to play any control or late game deck without it (for its duration in Standard).
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Sep 20, 2014 01:06
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AnacondaHL posted:Sphinx's Revelation wasn't format warping. It was archetype warping. There was no reason to play any control or late game deck without it (for its duration in Standard). Opportunity was in M14 and nobody cared 
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Sep 20, 2014 01:08
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Alabaster White posted:I've always had an on-again-off-again relationship with Magic over the years, but I've finally decided to knuckle down with 2015. I bought myself a Toolkit and a few boosters, so I'm at the stage where I'm deciding what kind of deck to build. Apparently my first pick, Blue/Green, was a fairly bizarre choice, so I'm wondering if I could get some basic deck archetypes I could make with Core Set cards. http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Card-Game-2015/dp/B00KXY3NS4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411172048&sr=8-1&keywords=m15+clash+pack
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Sep 20, 2014 01:15
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Attorney at Funk posted:D&T and Elves are a thing, but they're also a prison deck and a combo deck, respectively. You rarely see midrange green decks anymore, where Maverick and Jund used to be things depending on the meta. The deck that runs the most *copies* of True-Name might be Fish but the card's best home is the midrange blue Stoneforge decks because it's the specific interaction of TNN with Legacy-playable equipment that's nigh-impossible to beat on the board. Miracles was an almost fringey presence in Legacy between the printing of Abrupt Decay and the adoption of True-Name Nemesis. Yes, most decks in Legacy that run creatures tend to do more with them than just engage in blind aggression. You'd be very hard pressed to find a reasonable definition of "creature deck" that excluded both D&T and Elves without a) reserving that label almost entirely for decks that are wildly uncompetitive and b) also excluding TNN-Stoneblade decks. Decks wax and wane in popularity for a variety of reasons, even if there aren't any earthshaking changes to the card pool. Neither (Dark) Maverick or Jund are particularly poorly suited to combat TNN, and midrange TNN & Stoneblade decks are not an oppressively dominant portion of the metagame either by volume or by wins. Given the performance of the various decks I really don't buy the notion that the omnipresent spectre of TNN is what is keeping Maverick/Jund down and Miracles on top.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:29
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TNN for about three months or so was pretty drat dominant until Conspiracy got released and there are more tools now to deal with it.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:30
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LGD posted:Yes, most decks in Legacy that run creatures tend to do more with them than just engage in blind aggression. You'd be very hard pressed to find a reasonable definition of "creature deck" that excluded both D&T and Elves without a) reserving that label almost entirely for decks that are wildly uncompetitive and b) also excluding TNN-Stoneblade decks. What do you think is the cause of Miracles's resurgence this year?
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Sep 20, 2014 01:35
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Korak posted:TNN for about three months or so was pretty drat dominant until Conspiracy got released and there are more tools now to deal with it. "More tools" was literally just Council's Judgement, which provided minor help to the deck Attorney at Funk is claiming rose to ascendancy on the back of its already superior performance against TNN. TNN clearly has had a major impact on the format, was really trendy/popular for a while, and it took some time for people to figure out how to deal with. But "creature decks" that don't run TNN vastly exceed the number of those that do, and it seems really wrongheaded to explain Miracles current ascendance and Jund/Mavericks sidelining purely as a consequence of Stoneblade decks becoming stronger with the addition of TNN when tournament data suggests that Stoneblade decks are a smaller and less dominant portion of the metagame than they were before TNN was introduced. edit: Attorney at Funk posted:What do you think is the cause of Miracles's resurgence this year? Why is Infect doing so well right now when it wasn't before? LGD fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 01:42
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drat, I missed prerelease clan chat? I would go Mardu since they seem to fit the way I like to play, but last prerelease I went to (Theros) I went with the black sealed pool, then pulled a Temple of Triumph, Chained to the Rocks, and TWO Stormbreath Dragons. And went 1-3 playing RW  So I'm wary of RWB right now, I'll probably go Temur since I'm a Timmy at heart.Also, I traded a friend a couple cheap Modern cards and he, feeling like he was getting way more in the deal than I, gave me an oversized Griselbrand card he had lying around-  Any idea why Wizards printed this? It reminds me of the large Commander cards in the decks Wizards puts out, but I don't recall Grizzlebees being in one of those, nor does it have a different set icon. AVR prerelease swag maybe? E: Actually with a picture now. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 01:46
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Prerelease is in mere hours for me.  Can't wait to finally get it on with wedges, oh yes!
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Sep 20, 2014 01:48
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C-Euro posted:drat, I missed prerelease clan chat? I would go Mardu since they seem to fit the way I like to play, but last prerelease I went to (Theros) I went with the black sealed pool, then pulled a Temple of Triumph, Chained to the Rocks, and TWO Stormbreath Dragons. And went 1-3 playing RW I believe that was an AVR prerelease gimmick, one of the possible things inside the helvault.
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Sep 20, 2014 01:53
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Ramos posted:Prerelease is in mere hours for me. I guess that's it for going to it twice. Oh well, once will be enough.
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Sep 20, 2014 02:27
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LGD posted:
One of the secrets about legacy is that most of the top decks are about equal. If you're playing force, brainstorm and you have a plan you have a deck that can win any tournament. Once you get past that everybody is doing powerful things and can win out of nowhere.
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Sep 20, 2014 02:33
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neetengie posted:Oh poo poo I didn't know that the pre-release was today, thought it was next week. Well, there is always Saturday? I honestly usually skip out on midnight releases since sleep is way too nice to miss out on. The main reason I'm going this time is wedges.
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Sep 20, 2014 02:34
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I've been away from MTGO for a while and finally downloaded the new version, and I can't seem to find where my net decks were saved, my locally saved decks are there though. Googling doesn't help, so I'm assuming it's something retarded that I'm missing, but where can I find them?
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Sep 20, 2014 02:38
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Attorney at Funk posted:Would you consider TNN warping in Legacy by this metric, or does it have to be negative enough to merit banning (like, Mental Misstep, for example) to qualify? Is a format-warping card always better off banned? TNN is pushing the non-blue decks creature decks down, like Maverick and Jund. Attorney at Funk posted:What do you think is the cause of Miracles's resurgence this year? Attorney at Funk posted:The interesting thing is that control strategies (meaning here, specifically Miracles) has been doing well almost as a direct consequence *of* True-Name Nemesis. Like, it's very difficult to justify running a creature deck that doesn't have access to TNN, and Terminus is probably the best answer to it there is. Miracles originally got good because it had a good Zoo and Maverick matchup, and once those started dying off, the only creature decks were the BUG and Esper good-stuff decks that could play creatures that generated enough value to not just lose after 1 terminus. Then Deathrite and Shardless Agent got printed, making a card advantage engine that could overcome getting wrathed. Then TNN was printed, and its just a slower Nimble Mongoose as far as Miracles is concerned, which was almost a non-issue. TNN has definitely helped Miracles get better in the meta though, because Goblins and Thresh were the hardest matchups, and TNN beats up on those decks hard, but it was always good, just not obviously one of the best.
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Sep 20, 2014 02:44
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:I've been away from MTGO for a while and finally downloaded the new version, and I can't seem to find where my net decks were saved, my locally saved decks are there though. Googling doesn't help, so I'm assuming it's something retarded that I'm missing, but where can I find them? Your net decks are stored online, and you should be able to see them in the new client. If you still have decks saved on your computer, they should be in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Wizards of the Coast\Magic Online\3.0\Decks. Import your local decks by selecting Add Deck in the Collection tab. You can select multiple decks and import multiple at a time.
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Sep 20, 2014 03:04
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The most recent card recently in Legacy that would be format-warping was Mental Misstep. Say what you will about Abrupt Decay or True-Name Nemesis or whatever, but those don't make 7 out of 8 decks in a top eight have a playset of it while the 8th is specifically designed around bricking it like Mental Misstep.
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Sep 20, 2014 03:07
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L0cke17 posted:TNN is pushing the non-blue decks creature decks down, like Maverick and Jund. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. LGD posted:Why is Infect doing so well right now when it wasn't before? It looks really rickety on paper and its signature cards aren't ones that see a lot of play in Legacy (Berserk, Invigorate, Inkmoth Nexus) so it had a really low profile relative to the fact that it's a deck that can present a turn 2 kill along with a Wasteland/Daze/Force disruption plan. I think Tom Ross's success, along with his specific innovations (like the Crop Rotation package) have done a lot both to demonstrate the power of Legacy Infect and to give it some extra angles that the all-in Modern style Infect decks with more pump spells didn't have.
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Sep 20, 2014 03:17
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Any advice for someone recently returned to the game after a long hiatus for the khans prerelease? I chose Mardu fwiw.
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Sep 20, 2014 03:25
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Deviant posted:Any advice for someone recently returned to the game after a long hiatus for the khans prerelease? I chose Mardu fwiw. Combat damage isn't on the stack anymore, which is still taking some getting used to on my end.
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Sep 20, 2014 03:27
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Mercury Crusader posted:Combat damage isn't on the stack anymore, which is still taking some getting used to on my end. I just know at some point I'm going to, say, block Chief of the Edge with facedown Sidisi's Pet and expect it to be able to both kill the Chief and survive.
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Sep 20, 2014 03:35
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Applebees posted:Your net decks are stored online, and you should be able to see them in the new client. If you still have decks saved on your computer, they should be in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Wizards of the Coast\Magic Online\3.0\Decks. Thanks a lot, I had it backwards, it was my net decks that were showing up and I had to import my local decks how you said
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Sep 20, 2014 03:35
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Carrasco posted:I just know at some point I'm going to, say, block Chief of the Edge with facedown Sidisi's Pet and expect it to be able to both kill the Chief and survive. Now I have to unlearn stack combat damage in relation to morph, since I was playing standard during Onslaught block. I guess it won't be as hard to do as with sacrificed creatures (rip mogg fanatic)
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Sep 20, 2014 03:43
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C-Euro posted:Also, I traded a friend a couple cheap Modern cards and he, feeling like he was getting way more in the deal than I, gave me an oversized Griselbrand card he had lying around- As mentioned, this is from the AVR prerelease, which also had oversized Avacyn and the three multicolor angel legends. This is in addition to the oversize Commander and Commmander's Arsenal cards. Nobody is sure why they keep doing this. MaRo has claimed that people like them, but I've literally never seen or talked to anyone who used them, so ???
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Sep 20, 2014 03:47
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Ramos posted:Well, there is always Saturday? I honestly usually skip out on midnight releases since sleep is way too nice to miss out on. The main reason I'm going this time is wedges.
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Sep 20, 2014 04:08
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I haven't preregged or reserved a wedge or anything, so I'm probably going to roll down to my FLGS a little before midnight and if the Abzan is all gone I'll just come back another time. 
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Sep 20, 2014 04:09
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Just woke up after doing FNM and a midnight prerelease. Chose Abzan, got a Duneblast as my seeded pack rare and High Sentinels in another pack, plus a couple of the common outlast synergists and a bunch of on-colour fixing in my random boosters. Deck ended up with a number of good white creatures, removal (Duneblast, Rite of the Serpent, Murderous Cut and Dead Drop) and a bunch of sweet fatties. The deck basically plays out as a slow control deck, then pump up some creatures with Dragonscale Boon and then swing in a for a bunch of lifelink damage. Loved it, but probably gonna try Sultai tomorrow, to see how far you can push Delve and self-mill. As someone else earlier said, Khans is fairly slow - there are a lot of big butts at common and Abzan looks popular. But Mardu can have some incredibly explosive starts if they hit an ascendency and a token generator or 2. I'm loving Khans limited though, I think it's a lot more interesting than Theros' 'buff up one big heroic guy lol'
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Sep 20, 2014 04:11
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Outlast is a busted as hell mechanic in limited and all you haters can suck it. Source: three prereleases deep in Australua and sick to death of Abzan Falconer and High Sentinels of Arashin
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Sep 20, 2014 04:13
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ungulateman posted:Outlast is a busted as hell mechanic in limited and all you haters can suck it. High Sentinels would be nuts in a format w/o outlast. Seems like a really unfair card. e:in limited
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Sep 20, 2014 04:18
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ungulateman posted:Outlast is a busted as hell mechanic in limited and all you haters can suck it. How did your Jeskai Bestai deck end up last night? Also what clans did you run today?
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Sep 20, 2014 04:25
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High Sentinels is totally absurd.
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Sep 20, 2014 04:25
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C-Euro posted:drat, I missed prerelease clan chat? I would go Mardu since they seem to fit the way I like to play, but last prerelease I went to (Theros) I went with the black sealed pool, then pulled a Temple of Triumph, Chained to the Rocks, and TWO Stormbreath Dragons. And went 1-3 playing RW This goes for about 80 dollars at my LGS.
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Sep 20, 2014 04:29
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4 bucks near mint online.
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Sep 20, 2014 04:31
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