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Angry Walrus posted:Because Monty learned to animate with Poser and is forcing the entire team of animators they have employed to use it as well so he can continue to contribute to the animation process without Burnie seeing that he's actually wildly incompetent at animating. wow he's anime ulillillia
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Sep 21, 2014 09:09
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Just catching up here...ninjewtsu posted:Please explain to me how ripping off your capslock key and f1 key to save time 1. saves time and 2. is not a sign of mental illness Butt Ghost posted:Maybe the guy's a loon. Hbomberguy posted:Maybe the key slowed him down because it got covered in greasy sweat and/or cheeto dust, or got broken from the sheer pressure of being violently mashed at incredible speeds. Hbomberguy posted:It's 'common' to do this very troubling thing, so let's not complain about it! HiveCommander posted:[sarcasm] Sure, I'm going to be poo poo on for this, but while reading the last page did anyone else feel like they were in some corner of a school cafeteria listening to a group of mean spirited children talk poo poo about the fat and awkward kid just because they could? beaner69 posted:Dude literally pushes 55 on the microwave instead of 100 to save a button push. 
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Sep 22, 2014 00:55
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Ferretts posted:I agree there are mental issues being revealed here, but not Monty's. You are welcome to contradict my analyses of the 'anime' 'coolness' it attempts to generate. It's telling that, in order to compare the thread to school bullies (and diagnose people with mental problems yourself! - you are literally equating people to children with mental disorders), you purposefully ignored all the posts that really discuss the show. Why you build this fictional universe for yourself is beyond me. I guess it's more comfortable to pretend everyone's a big bad bully than it is to question one's own assumptions. E: Critical thinking about shows is not wrong. It is, in fact, demanded. If you love Monty Oum's hit series RuhWeeBee so much, you'd want the best for it, right? So why don't you want it to get better? Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 01:28
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What I find more interesting (and funny) is the absolutely bonkers production pipeline and just awful production design for something that actually has a staff and funding behind it. This isn't some pure art house independent person putting his soul out there, this is a product that he was paid money to produce and the results even just on a mechanical level are ridiculous. Okay, it might be going too far to cast aspersions of Monty's character from just a data point about his keyboard or Poser downgrade. But what can be said is that someone who has made the consistently bad decisions regarding even using Poser or not actually rendering anything or never implementing basic lighting effects, etc. is a person who should not have been given the keys to a production. However, despite all this, and just the creative bankruptcy of the property itself, it's been successful. Not artistically, nor culturally, but in the way that counts for RoosterTeeth: economically.
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Sep 22, 2014 01:31
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boom boom boom fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 01:32
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Hbomberguy posted:question one's own assumptions. I didn't ignore the other 5 pages of posts. I read them, and agree with most. I'm not comparing/condemning the whole thread. I sited specific posts. There were maybe five? I made this thread for criticism/discussion of a show that has much to criticize/discuss. I do have a problem with communal poo poo-canning of a person's character because his work is significantly flawed. boom boom boom posted:Sometimes creative efforts are really terrible and deserve making GBS threads on.
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Sep 22, 2014 01:59
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Ferretts posted:Yes. Do more of this. What have I been unwilling to question? Also you can't stop people who attack people's characters by calling them meanyheads (or in your case, calling them children with mental disorders). It's better to try and raise the discussion than lower yourself to it.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:03
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I am pretty sure it's perfectly standard to discuss a work from the context of its origin. And the ludicrous things the creator for RWBY has made public as being part of his creative / production process say an awful lot about both the work and the creator himself. Tearing off your keys to "save time" is seriously weird, yo.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:06
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While I understand having a passion for the craft, complaining about software updates is really loving dumb. Can't the dude just divide some time out of his busy schedule to learn the new features? The dude literally states that he is racing against the clock because software updates make him less efficient. Yes Monty, they do that to everyone. Most people however adjust to a new interface in 1-3 days.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:08
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SSNeoman posted:While I understand having a passion for the craft, complaining about software updates is really loving dumb. Can't the dude just divide some time out of his busy schedule to learn the new features? The dude literally states that he is racing against the clock because software updates make him less efficient. Yes Monty, they do that to everyone. Most people however adjust to a new interface in 1-3 days. Hell, he could delay the new episodes by a week or something. It's an internet show, you didn't pay for a timeslot or anything. You're only beholden to yourself. I'm sure the fanbase wouldn't mind hearing that he'll be taking a week or two off to learn the new features. Plenty of others take short breaks from time to time.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:13
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Hbomberguy posted:Also you can't stop people who attack people's characters by calling them meanyheads (or in your case, calling them children with mental disorders). It's better to try and raise the discussion than lower yourself to it. Yes. It's usually a stupid move to pick fights with people on the internet for being mean. Sorry to derail. Concerning ep 7.5, this show keeps screaming with the video game vibes. Also, if only their were 12 kingdoms...
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Sep 22, 2014 02:17
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Zorak posted:Tearing off your keys to "save time" is seriously weird, yo. I'll bite. Why? Shouldn't the desire to save time at least be understandable?
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Sep 22, 2014 04:06
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I feel like this is the real-world equivalent of "taking damage to save time."
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Sep 22, 2014 04:12
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Zorak posted:I am pretty sure it's perfectly standard to discuss a work from the context of its origin. And the ludicrous things the creator for RWBY has made public as being part of his creative / production process say an awful lot about both the work and the creator himself. Given he could just as easily set up a custom key board setting on his computer where he disables certain keys, but no, take a screwdriver to a functional key board and tear out certain keys, that's the easiest way to perfect a workflow. At best Monty seems like a weird guy who set up everything up a very specific way and refuses to learn changes at all, and at worst he's an extreme OCD autistic idiot who adapting to one workflow method and absolutely refuses any change whatsoever to the point of physically damaging his user tools and refusing to adopt any more advanced software no matter what benefits. And let's not pretend RWBY is anything more then a semi-high profile youtube series controlled by the whims of one crazy animator.
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Sep 22, 2014 05:50
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'll bite. Why? Shouldn't the desire to save time at least be understandable? It's not really understandable. Making a production isn't a loving speedrun. It's okay to be slow and methodical while working! You make less mistakes and it gives you more time to think about your actions, maybe reconsider how a scene should be set or how a certain animation could look better. Maybe I'm assuming a bit too much here, but if you watch some of the episode breakdown videos Team Four Star put out for DBZ abridged you can see how much effort they put into that series. They go so far to correct animation errors from the original series, remove characters from scenes to set up gags, and make their original overlays look really good. It's really apparent in the production quality that they really give a poo poo about their presentation, while Rooster Teeth...  yeah. Looks like she's got staples in her hands jesus
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Sep 22, 2014 06:45
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Kabanaw posted:
Hey, at least her cheeks are getting visibly stuffed. Also, I haven't had a left Windows key on my keyboards for over a decade. I was taking some keys out to clean my keyboard, then just decided to not put it back in, and then I got used to finding Ctrl with my pinky for various PC games by the tactile feedback (or lack thereof). It's really not that weird, and it's not physical damage.
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Sep 22, 2014 07:54
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The "problem" with removing a key to save time is that there's way more to this than just that. The show could look better if he used an updated version of Poser or, gasp, software that's better suited for animation. It's clearly a passion project for him, he likes what he's doing, but there's a clear limit to how much effort he's putting forth. It sounds like he cares more about the creating than what he's creating.
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Sep 22, 2014 09:18
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If the whole rip-out-keys thing was just someone from production taking some photos of Monty's keyboard and posting them online for laughs, then I agree that it would have been very mean to make fun of it. Everyone has his own personal workflow and I respect that. But if you are admitting it yourself in a way that you think will make your dedication to your product praiseworthy in the most silly fanboyish you-tube video about a show as crappy as RWBY, then you give everyone free pass to criticise your stupid workflow "tricks".
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Sep 22, 2014 09:29
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Yea I know, and I'm not defending the guy or his actions, and I can't be bothered to even look up the interview or whatever besides 1 Google search for a quote. But using the fact that he modified his keyboard to justify calling him names is pretty weak. There's more than enough to make fun of from just the resulting product.
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Sep 22, 2014 14:57
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Kabanaw posted:
I haven't really watched much of DBZ abridged but reading that they do this is pretty crazy. They don't even need to do more than make goofy DBZ jokes but are taking the effort to do all that is pretty respectable in my book.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:03
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Good Listener posted:I haven't really watched much of DBZ abridged but reading that they do this is pretty crazy. They don't even need to do more than make goofy DBZ jokes but are taking the effort to do all that is pretty respectable in my book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnQjZk67SME Basically Kaiser does a LOT of work that most video editors in general don't do outside of like union.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:10
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Ferretts posted:Sure, I'm going to be poo poo on for this, but while reading the last page did anyone else feel like they were in some corner of a school cafeteria listening to a group of mean spirited children talk poo poo about the fat and awkward kid just because they could? Zorak posted:I am pretty sure it's perfectly standard to discuss a work from the context of its origin. And the ludicrous things the creator for RWBY has made public as being part of his creative / production process say an awful lot about both the work and the creator himself. Good Listener posted:I haven't really watched much of DBZ abridged but reading that they do this is pretty crazy. They don't even need to do more than make goofy DBZ jokes but are taking the effort to do all that is pretty respectable in my book.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:37
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HiveCommander posted:TeamFourStar do amazing parody work and I respect them a lot for the effort they put in. I wasn't really impressed by Hellsing Abridged, but DBZ Abridged was really well done. Their jokes and references are pretty well integrated too. DBZ Abridged also really improved after the first season, when they learned that shouting references doesn't equal comedy gold. Not a huge fan of it but dang, they really looked at what wasn't working for them and took the appropriate steps to fix it. And coming up with original material instead of shouting internet memes? Why, that takes time!  RWBY meanwhile works in "Four score and seven years ago" and "I am not a crook" in the same line of dialogue...because the writer thinks those lines are inherently funny, I guess? Shouting famous presidential lines is such a quirky and random thing to do!
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Sep 23, 2014 03:44
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And again, I can't stress this enough, the dude is PAID to make this. He is given money with the expectation to put out a decent product, and this is what comes out. I'd be way more forgiving if it really was just this one dude trying to make something he liked; the fact that it's being sold to the public as if it's remotely up to par is what makes it ripe for tearing apart.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:44
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Neeksy posted:And again, I can't stress this enough, the dude is PAID to make this. He is given money with the expectation to put out a decent product, and this is what comes out. I'd be way more forgiving if it really was just this one dude trying to make something he liked; the fact that it's being sold to the public as if it's remotely up to par is what makes it ripe for tearing apart. The fact of the matter, though, is that he's selling it and people are buying it. This isn't some failed Kickstarter; this is a commercial success resulting in positive returns for Rooster Teeth. He is meeting expectations.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:45
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That is entirely irrelevant to whether or not it is justified to criticize him. A commercial product can be criticized, whether or not it is successful.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:01
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Takoluka posted:The fact of the matter, though, is that he's selling it and people are buying it. This isn't some failed Kickstarter; this is a commercial success resulting in positive returns for Rooster Teeth. He is meeting expectations. People have lovely taste and throw money at stupid things. Doesn't make them not poorly done.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:49
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Neeksy posted:And again, I can't stress this enough, the dude is PAID to make this. He is given money with the expectation to put out a decent product, and this is what comes out. I'd be way more forgiving if it really was just this one dude trying to make something he liked; the fact that it's being sold to the public as if it's remotely up to par is what makes it ripe for tearing apart. The worst part is that he's got a whole team of trained animators that he's forcing to work with Poser instead of software that they were taught to use and would yield better results regardless. His obsession with "efficiency" is only efficiency for himself. Rather than taking the time to learn how to animate with real software himself, he forced multiple people to take the time to use lovely inferior software just so he could contribute to the animation process without slowing down. He's not actually concerned with producing a good product, he just wants something he can say he made. There was one "behind the scenes" mini-doc and I could feel the animation team's pain any time they mentioned the process they had to use. Angry Walrus fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 07:46
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Angry Walrus posted:The worst part is that he's got a whole team of trained animators that he's forcing to work with Poser instead of software that they were taught to use and would yield better results regardless. His obsession with "efficiency" is only efficiency for himself. Rather than taking the time to learn how to animate with real software himself, he forced multiple people to take the time to use lovely inferior software just so he could contribute to the animation process without slowing down. He's not actually concerned with producing a good product, he just wants something he can say he made. I don't know a lot about animation or animation software, but as much trouble as the guy is, can't they just replace him? Or is his style so distinctive that only he can do it?
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Sep 23, 2014 07:58
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Takoluka posted:The fact of the matter, though, is that he's selling it and people are buying it. Basically what this guy said. He brings in the dough and RT isn't going to argue with that, and with animation being a hard to get into field I really doubt the actual animators are going to speak up against the head of the animation department to get fired and be faced with a weak job market.
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Sep 23, 2014 08:08
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Angry Walrus posted:The worst part is that he's got a whole team of trained animators that he's forcing to work with Poser instead of software that they were taught to use and would yield better results regardless. His obsession with "efficiency" is only efficiency for himself. Rather than taking the time to learn how to animate with real software himself, he forced multiple people to take the time to use lovely inferior software just so he could contribute to the animation process without slowing down. He's not actually concerned with producing a good product, he just wants something he can say he made. I wonder how much of the weird lack of weight and momentum is a problem with using Poser? Cause the fights I have seen have some really weird timing going on with motion where it is fast and slow in all the wrong places.
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Sep 23, 2014 08:32
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A lot of the fights in the older seasons of RvB where Monty was the only animator felt like they had more weight to them, so I'd chalk it up to him having enough experience with Poser to make it work but the newer animators don't.
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Sep 23, 2014 08:42
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pentyne posted:I don't know a lot about animation or animation software, but as much trouble as the guy is, can't they just replace him? Or is his style so distinctive that only he can do it? This is a objectively terrible show that is relatively very popular. For several pages now we have been talking just about the lead animator. Said animator has released a guide for fan fiction writers. No one would watch the show if they sacked Monty, even if they managed to make it better.
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Sep 23, 2014 09:20
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Rexides posted:This is a objectively terrible show that is relatively very popular. For several pages now we have been talking just about the lead animator. Said animator has released a guide for fan fiction writers. This is basically it. Monty Oum is the ultimate anime fanboy, and by appreciating 'his work', viewers are vicariously appreciating themselves. This is why relatively straightforward critique ("mutilating your tools and purposefully using a worse version of a software is not good practice") is being imagined as school bullies (with mental disorders, because why not?) picking on a kid in the cafeteria. While the kid is technically Monty Oum, The Oumchild is a stand-in for everyone else who appreciates anime in his very specific way, but didn't ever get the chance to make it themselves. Interesting side-point: Oum is treated as if a frail child, even in the imaginations of those who like him. This is telling. This ties into my theory about this show and others like it removing all the good parts of anime through obsession with the signifiers of good-ness. Because there's nothing actually good in the show, a fan's discussion of the show necessarily has to revolve around how successful it has been, how much of a workaholic coolguy Monty Oum / Rooster Teeth are, their personal fanfiction character and how they would fit into official canon, and continuous re-insistence that the fights are 'cool'. The point is the part where you actually enjoy the show in some meaningful way is endlessly deferred elsewhere. It is weaponised desire. Monty Oum is a genius in the very specific way the creators of porn are geniuses.
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Sep 23, 2014 09:46
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Ferretts posted:Just catching up here... "Guys you can't talk bad because at least he's creating spmething" is the defense of small children who can't handle criticism.
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Sep 23, 2014 14:46
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Literally The Worst posted:"Guys you can't talk bad because at least he's creating spmething" is the defense of small children who can't handle criticism. It's also super, super revealing about why people like him in the first place. Oum is a nerdy cosplayer with a major anime obsession 'just like me' who actually managed to make something and get popular. See also: Kevin Smith
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Sep 23, 2014 14:55
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Hbomberguy posted:See also: Kevin Smith I told you!
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Sep 23, 2014 15:28
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You people are taking some guy's choice of 3D graphics package waaay too seriously.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:44
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If Oum had taken his choices more seriously, he would have made better ones.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:45
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I dunno, you could probably give him the industry best animation suite and tools and he'd still kludge something incredibly mediocre together at best, because he doesn't have the training or skills to produce a quality product. Ideally he'd take the money he's making from this terrible show and invest them in some art and animation classes. Hell if nothing else, a course on the latest version of Poser so he isn't further hamstringing his efforts. Granted even if it was well-animated it still wouldn't be good because holy poo poo the voicework is hilariously bad and the writing is extremely childish, but at least you might be able to turn off your brain and enjoy the visuals.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:06
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