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Last month when your income didn't meet projections, rather than lower discretionary expenses, you chose to cut your savings goal. This month, with the stars aligning and lowering your expenses, thus giving you a small windfall, you choose to put that increase entirely into your discretionary expenses. Something hasn't quite clicked in your approach to your finances to get you to consider using excess funds from good months to make up for being short from a bad month. I'm all for the approach where you save for larger discretionary expenses little by little each month. That usually means leaving your discretionary amounts fixed and setting aside some amount of that each month until you built enough to make that big purchase. It doesn't mean adding the amount that you need to save on top of your discretionary funds each month. That is, if your monthly blow money is $200 and you want to spend $400 in 4 months, you'd set aside $100 from that $200 and have to make do with $100 of general blow for the next four months.
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Sep 22, 2014 01:23
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Knyteguy posted:We're hoarding 25% of my income next month. Knyteguy posted:We're hoarding as much money as we possibly can from my wife's paycheck. ... By the end of the month that will turn into $6,000.00 because my wife gets paid again. Stop looking at bank accounts. They don't matter. I'll say right now that while my wife and I have made tremendous improvements these past two years, we actually have been slipping a bit lately. We haven't touched savings goals, but we've had a lot of big expenses and have taken several trips. We're getting it back under control, but I get it. It's easy to rationalize things. And we also already have $10k saved for a baby, and we're not even pregnant yet, and up here in Maple Country a uterus isn't seen as a pre-existing condition, so birth is free. That's $10k on TOP of our 25% long-term savings (and we don't count pre-tax contributions in that 25%). So I get it. I'm not judging. I'm just saying, yeah, both you and I are falling into the same traps, and we both need to cut it out. The reason people are giving you flak is because there's no planning here. Is this "taking away vacation" thing with your wife a surprise? Because this is the first we've heard of it. Where was the $100/mo you've been putting away for it? You've been wanting a PS4 since forever, so where's that $100/month that you've been putting away for it? Didn't you already buy and return one? Why do you need both a trip and a toy the same month? Hell, why not at least wait for Black Friday sales, and SAVE for it? You still have a functioning PS3. Use that. My console is an XBOX 360 that a coworker gave away for free. Works fine. (And as someone who used to get the latest and greatest since the PSX... trust me, there is ALWAYS some "must have best game ever" coming out. I had a lot of fun playing Gran Turismo 1, but I can't say my long-term life was really enhanced by it, or that I couldn't have had fun doing something else.) Were I in your shoes with so much debt and a baby around the corner and hardly anything saved for it, I sure as poo poo wouldn't be buying a big stupid overpriced toy for myself. If you really need retail therapy, buy $400 of overpriced adorable baby clothes. Or paint the nursery. Build a toy chest. Stop being a selfish fucker and start thinking about your child. But as it turns out I WILL be in San Francisco at the end of October, so we have that in common too. 
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Sep 22, 2014 02:31
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quote:Taking a "babymoon" to the SF bay area
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Sep 22, 2014 02:36
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Knyteguy posted:We're taking it from lots of categories. Restaurants was one of them, rent since we were ahead, total saved, business expenses, etc. My wife and I planned the budget meticulously, and then I gave us a nice fat MISC column to cover anything that may go over (we accounted for chance like someone was just saying we don't). quote:Look I've been contemplating this stupid video game system for months. I contemplated it at work, at home, when I woke up in the morning. If I don't have time to play it when the baby is here, well I've had my PS3 for something like 6 years now so I'm sure the PS4 will last at least as long. I won't always have this thread to consult, and this is where we're going with it.
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Sep 22, 2014 04:20
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I couldn't find the posts about it, what's the details on grandma matching your house down payment or whatever? I'm not going to harp on you for the vacation or PS4, but if the PS4 costs you $500, what percentage is that of the down payment you're supposed to have saved? In other words, if you're supposed to save $10k, that's a full 5% on the down payment you need that you're blowing in one month. Just something to put it in perspective.
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Sep 22, 2014 13:44
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Old Fart posted:The reason people are giving you flak is because there's no planning here. Is this "taking away vacation" thing with your wife a surprise? Because this is the first we've heard of it. Where was the $100/mo you've been putting away for it? You've been wanting a PS4 since forever, so where's that $100/month that you've been putting away for it? Didn't you already buy and return one? Why do you need both a trip and a toy the same month? Hell, why not at least wait for Black Friday sales, and SAVE for it? You still have a functioning PS3. Use that. My console is an XBOX 360 that a coworker gave away for free. Works fine. This has got to be quite a bit of the frustration that some posters are having currently. The poster who said that Knyteguy is practicing reconciliation not budgeting is darn accurate. The posts really feel like a broken record as well where people keep saying the same thing over and over, but Knyteguy is coming up with new and creative ways to spend money he knows he really shouldn't be. If Kynteguy had said OK I'm buying a PS4 in a few months, we're cutting our dinner budget for 3 months nobody in here would give you poo poo for it. Or, if you had not spent all of your discretionary budget for a few months to 'save up' nobody here gives you poo poo for it. Now I'm sure I'm sounding like a broken record as well. Why does the "budget" have to be this randomly shifting thing every month to suit your spending whims? Like the other poster said, this isn't a budget this is reconciliation. I really do think that this is as much an addiction as it is anything else.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:23
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Nocheez posted:Knyte: I really am rooting for you, but a PS4 is absolutely nothing more than a toy. It is not a necessity, it is a distraction. Start a college fund for your kid, and every time you want to buy a toy for yourself, take that money and put it away for her future instead. Surely that money is better spent on her education than for your distractions... right? I don't want to sound like a dick, but my wife and I decided we probably won't pay for our kid's college. Like I was thinking we would put say $1,000 in one of those college savings funds right when they're born, and they can stay with us free room and board if they want to go to school. Wife and I both paid our own way while working, kid can too. College isn't for everyone anyway (I dropped out). Old Fart posted:Were I in your shoes with so much debt and a baby around the corner and hardly anything saved for it, I sure as poo poo wouldn't be buying a big stupid overpriced toy for myself. If you really need retail therapy, buy $400 of overpriced adorable baby clothes. Or paint the nursery. Build a toy chest. Stop being a selfish fucker and start thinking about your child. Well we already have enough hand-me-down baby clothes to last probably the first 3-6 months so we probably don't want to buy beyond that. We did pick up a baby beanie out of budget though (Nevada Wolfpack):  Also we don't have a nursery. I was being an unselfish fucker and decided we should move into an apartment too small to save a lot of money before the baby was born. We did that on our own, and it takes a lot to not be miserable with 2 dogs, 3 cats, and too much stuff in 800sq/ft. So if I'm selfish every now and then so be it. I've gotta deal with sharing a bedroom with a newborn for at least 5 months, again so we could save money. I'm happy to sacrifice some comfort for the babe, but I'm not Mother Theresa here either. slap me silly posted:But is that the case? If I take the shape of that graph at face value, it says you had a real problem for the last half year and haven't been actually accumulating money for more than about a month. I.e., very good chance you still need some help being honest with yourself about your spending. Well the dollars are in the budgets I post. I feel like I'm being pretty honest about spending money. I'll make a nice graph at the end of this month to show progress though, because yes there has been a lot of it (progress). We've only been really accumulating money for a few months, but that doesn't mean that we were making bad decisions in say June when we came back. We also had some drastic things happen like moving and all of the related expenses that go with it, such as paying deposits, etc. We're only now seeing the consequences of our good decisions. We've been doing well for 4 solid months. That's what kills me about the Zaurg stuff. Like yea OK I shouldn't look at our bank account balance because it doesn't mean much, and it's all earmarked for emergency fund anyway so it's untouchable. However (and I feel this is recurring) as long as we stick to a budget (+-5%) I think that everyone should relax a little. Couple Points: 1) No one ever told us we should make a budget that fits every month going forward. I actually like budgeting by the month, it keeps me informed and it makes me think about it. 2) Going forward I'll try what Veskit mentioned and make a discretionary budget (anywhere from $0-$500 a month) and if we want something more than that well we'll have to roll balances over. 3) I'm not posting anymore what I'll be buying. Purchases are personal. If I want to go burn a pile of money in my backyard then it shouldn't matter as long as the money used is within budget. I think that's totally fair. 4) Some people fear there is a pattern to our discretionary budget going up. I can see how you could see it that way, but there isn't actually a pattern. I'm not going to Cicero posted:Let me know if you want to grab lunch at ~*~Google~*~ while you're down here. Hey man that would be awesome, I may take you up on this. Let me get back to you after I know for sure we can get the time off. Addressing next 2 posts in just a min
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Sep 22, 2014 16:42
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You might as well just close the thread, because you've basically decided to take your ball and go home. It should be a wake-up call that absolutely strangers who enjoy thinking about finances have very similar opinions on your financial decisions. We would not be posting here if we truly didn't want to see you have a positive outcome. We don't want to berate you for every purchase, but you came here asking for help and we're trying to provide it. Sidenote: I don't plan on paying for my children's educations either. I was making the point that if you have to spend money, you might as well spent it on something positive instead of another toy for yourself. edit: fixed some grammatical stuff, clarification. Nocheez fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 16:47
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dreesemonkey posted:I couldn't find the posts about it, what's the details on grandma matching your house down payment or whatever? 2.5%. We need $20,000. Gma wants to open a joint account and she said she'll match us every dollar up to $20,000. n8r posted:This has got to be quite a bit of the frustration that some posters are having currently. The poster who said that Knyteguy is practicing reconciliation not budgeting is darn accurate. The posts really feel like a broken record as well where people keep saying the same thing over and over, but Knyteguy is coming up with new and creative ways to spend money he knows he really shouldn't be. Man I tried this and I got harped on for thinking too far ahead. That said I did say I would save discretionary weekly, so I should have done that. Instead of cutting our dinner budget for 3 months, we cut our eating out budget completely for 1 month. We didn't just straight up pull this money out of nowhere. I originally had budgeted $100 extra for the business category for a nice logo for a new website I'm making, but I cut that by $60 for the PS4. That will wait until November. Also I've been trying to freelance web design/program a little to help pay for this PS4. I should have mentioned that. Just leads so far but I could probably pay for the PS4 completely just doing freelance stuff nights and weekends a few times.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:49
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Knyteguy posted:2.5%. We need $20,000. Gma wants to open a joint account and she said she'll match us every dollar up to $20,000. If I were in your shoes and had the ability to make my savings pay a return of 100%, I sure as poo poo would be saving every penny possible to get to $20,000. Thought exercise: would you still be buying a PS4 if it cost twice as much for everything? Console, controllers, games, etc.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:52
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Knyteguy posted:Also I've been trying to freelance web design/program a little to help pay for this PS4. I should have mentioned that. Just leads so far but I could probably pay for the PS4 completely just doing freelance stuff nights and weekends a few times. Being a month ahead means you make the money in the first month and then spend the money in the second.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:05
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Knyteguy posted:2.5%. We need $20,000. Gma wants to open a joint account and she said she'll match us every dollar up to $20,000. In effect then it is becoming 5% if grandma is planning to match your down payment. I'm not telling you to not take your vacation (I think this is more reasonable than the PS4), but between the vacation and the PS4 you could be 10% of the way to your house down payment IN ONE MONTH. That's pretty incredible. You also have to get a reality check that your baby is going to be born relatively soon (which you've been saving money for - good job) and you're horribly underwater on a car. Baby + horrible car loan + house down payment while your wife stops working is going to make things pretty tight, just so you're aware. n8r posted:This has got to be quite a bit of the frustration that some posters are having currently. The poster who said that Knyteguy is practicing reconciliation not budgeting is darn accurate. This 100%. Your massaging of the numbers to fit whatever plan you just came up with *cough* vacation *cough* is what's frustrating lot's of people. You don't see to be planning far enough ahead. Don't get me wrong, you're putting away a good amount of money right now, but once your wife stops working and the baby is here your income cushion is going to be greatly reduced. You need better long range planning for things since you'll have much less wiggle room soon.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:06
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Nocheez posted:You might as well just close the thread, because you've basically decided to take your ball and go home. It should be a wake-up call that absolutely strangers who enjoy thinking about finances have very similar opinions on your financial decisions. We would not be posting here if we truly didn't want to see you have a positive outcome. We don't want to berate you for every purchase, but you came here asking for help and we're trying to provide it. I've taken many self-sacrificing steps (not trying to sound pretentious or smug here), and you think that I should just end it here over $500? I'm not giving up unless like slap me forces me to because this thread legit helps. I've been hugely flexible on methodology, goals, behavior, purchases, etc for the past 4 months. Just to reiterate again we're using a drat fan to dry our clothes. I'm still totally open to input as well. I like talking about finances too. It's why I post in more than just my thread. It's important to note I/my wife and I also need to make our own decisions and adjust as necessary. If we hadn't moved (and absolutely no one suggested we cut our rent in the thread, but we still did it) that would still be less than what we would normally pay. As long as this isn't a repeated behavior it's fine jeez. Again we're budgeting this money from more than just our savings. I know it's hard to see because you weren't there when my wife and I discussed it for around 2 hours, but it's true. There's also around $350.00 in excess in the budget that hopefully won't get spent, but I'm trying to prepare for the worst case scenario. This is probably where the "incoherent" comes in. There's so much to the financial decision making process that it's hard to relay all of the information to everyone. Inc graphs. I'll make them when I get off work instead of today, since I just got paid.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:06
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poo poo thread is moving fast  .Nocheez posted:If I were in your shoes and had the ability to make my savings pay a return of 100%, I sure as poo poo would be saving every penny possible to get to $20,000. Argh again a point of frustration. Buying a house isn't supposed to be a goal of mine at the moment because I'm not supposed to look ahead. I'd love to start saving for a house and I would probably go to rice and beans extent to get there, but for now since we're supposed to stay focused on the present. As of now our only goal is a rough $10,000 for an emergency fund. Since we're on track for that this year I haven't even thought beyond that. Probably not on the 2nd part, or at least I be way more likely to hold off for sales. dreesemonkey posted:This 100%. Your massaging of the numbers to fit whatever plan you just came up with *cough* vacation *cough* is what's frustrating lot's of people. You don't see to be planning far enough ahead. I think above paragraph answers the first part pretty well. I suck at planning ahead, so I try to plan ahead understanding that. Vacation: It doesn't help my wife just dropped on me suddenly a few days ago that she'll lose her vacation if she doesn't use it, and she can only use it in October now.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:13
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It isn't easy to balance short term and long term goals, and it isn't easy to have clear communication with your own wife about finances, never mind with the internet. Keep plugging away at it. I agree with you that purchases are personal decisions. However, you have a history of undermining your long-term priorities (debt, house, kid) by overspending on your short-term priorities (vacation, PS4, car). Four months of decent success is awesome but it doesn't make that history irrelevant. So it might not be a bad idea to keep getting people's opinions about how to balance these things. By this point you know that the most drastic advice from here is often going to be overkill and you're not going to follow it. But you can still think about where it's coming from and apply that to what you're doing.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:23
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slap me silly posted:It isn't easy to balance short term and long term goals, and it isn't easy to have clear communication with your own wife about finances, never mind with the internet. Keep plugging away at it. Thanks. You're right it isn't easy (especially communicating it). Again I'll try to get some nice graphs together after work that will be soullessly honest. I feel like we're all often discussing only part of the picture, as was the case with the NFL thing. To everyone: Can I throw something out there? Suppose we switch financial shoes for a month, completely. You have my rent, my expenses, my debt. What would your budget look like? What would your savings look like for October? E: V college is a personal choice and my wife agrees. To me it's the same as not buying them a car. Video games offer their own benefits for a kid as well. There was just a study done that shows video games actually make a certain part of the brain thicker, as well as offering skills like reading, reflexes, concepts like (albeit not very good) philosophy, and more. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 17:36
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I think you will probably be better off just saving $2500 a month and not worrying so much about the rest. The micromanaging of 20 budget categories that BFC seems to advocate doesn't seem like it works for someone with your personality and seems like a pain in the rear end anyway. It seems a lot easier to have "fixed" and "everything else" categories, and just try not to spend more than you budget on the "everything else" each month. I also think it's kind of unbelievable that you are consciously deciding to prioritize things like a PS4 over college for your unborn child. I don't even like kids and I can't imagine doing that.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:36
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Knyteguy posted:
Well I mean, there is a pattern of your discretionary budget going up, and I can pinpoint why and how. This may go against what some people have said in the thread, but I promise what I'm telling you right now is in the spirit of what everyone is trying to teach you. You're messing up your priorities when it comes to setting up your budget, and everyone is getting mad, upset, and frustrated how you're prioritizing your money. What you're doing is phenomenally better than what you used to do, however you still have work to do to fix your mindset to move forward properly. What your brain is doing is going "Hey i have a baby on the way, I need to save money for the baby" so you came up with a good number to catch up, which is 25% of your income as savings. You spout it off a lot, and it's good, but not what is best. Your priorities go as follows: 1) Pay off all minimums, bills, rent ect 2) Set your savings goals (you said 25% of your earnings which isn't the best way to look at it which i'll explain why later) 3) Dump the rest into fun accounts Which i mean, is a positive step from your fun accounts being the priority and savings weren't even in the picture. What everyone wants to see however is: 1) Pay off all minimums, bills, rent ect 2) Set your savings goals (you said 25% of your earnings which is perfect for this scenario) 3) Make a reasonable budget for your fun accounts, preferably less than $500 per month 4) GO loving BACK AND DUMP THE REST IN SAVINGS, and if there isn't any money left then dip into your fun accounts. Which is wildly different and far more effective to your overall goals of having an awesome baby, getting a house, and giving you the financial discipline to get you out of the hole you're in. You're too focused on making sure your fun accounts are loaded up, when you're supposed to be learning how to manage them. Then, if you have any rainy day type issues, you don't have to dip into the fun because you're already puting money aside for that just in case. Doing this will appease everyone I promise.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:20
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Knyteguy posted:Can I throw something out there? Suppose we switch financial shoes for a month, completely. You have my rent, my expenses, my debt. What would your budget look like? What would your savings look like for October? If I'm reading right, you have: pre:Income 4800 Combined checks Fixed expenses 1900 Rent etc 700 Loan minimums Assets: 2700 Available cash (Would be more but $1000 now committed to vacation) 500 HSA (has to be spent on baby/medical, right?) 300 CC security (you can't access it) Liabilities: 25000 Car loan at 11% 10000 Other loans at ~7% Are you asking how to make that happen? Your situation is a little complicated because of how the income is sprinkled around through the month. Sit down with a list of every check and every bill that will come in October, and the dates. Figure out what to do with every penny of the checks when they arrive. Some goes to bills, some goes to the checking account for groceries, some goes in an envelope for eating out, etc. When there's any left over, it goes into the savings account. Once the savings account has gone up by (say) $1800, do whatever you please with the rest. I use a separate account for the "rest" so I can carry it over month to month. But this is nothing people haven't been telling you already - I think you're not there because you keep spending money ahead of when you actually have it. The vacation is an example. You are not using your October income for that. You are using the money out of your savings account and telling yourself you'll replenish it in October. Well, there's a good chance you might if nothing else comes up. But the way you're thinking about it is wrong. You need to see that as coming out of your savings, because it is. (Oh hay, beaten by Veskit!)
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Sep 22, 2014 18:24
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Yes, listen to Veskit. I'm much too harsh. Also, I found the rabbit ears but couldn't find the tuner box  I have no idea where it went, but if I do find it I'll let you know.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:50
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Veskit posted:1) Pay off all minimums, bills, rent ect You're right that those are the important goals. I think I'm focused on making sure the fun accounts are loaded up because I feel like we've had some austere months for a long time now, and I just need the budget to give a little. This is probably due to me not giving ourselves enough fun money. I don't like/don't like my wife having to think about spending $10 on crochet and whether that will break the budget or not. It sucks and it gets tiring, and I am tired of having to fight it so much. I see some people say "oh yea I can get by on $50/mo fun money" but I guess I'm just not that awesome yet. Maybe I set my standards too high. I think going forward we should start with $500.00 a month for a few month in discretionary, but try to stay under that. If we can do that for awhile then hey we can readjust in a few months and make it lower. Maybe I've been trying to do too much too fast too soon. Nocheez posted:Yes, listen to Veskit. I'm much too harsh. No worries. Thanks for looking. We probably should make it a point to spend less time on the couch anyway.
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Sep 22, 2014 19:16
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slap me silly posted:By this you have $2700 in available cash, $35000 in debt, and about $2200/mo to do things with. Two things jump out to me as most important: you have a baby coming in March; and that 11% car loan is brutal. Between now and March accounting for slop and funtimes, you could get your cash savings up to $12-14k. So that is what I would do. The overriding reason would be to have some financial flexibility in the face of all the poo poo that will change when you have a baby around. Once you have some kind of handle on the baby (hah!), start paying down the car loan as fast as you can. I think we (wife and I) really need to just take a step back and kind of reevaluate how we do everything. In this case it's not so much the behavioral stuff, so much as our methodology that needs work. I think this is largely in part because of how we change everything every single month. I want to cement a method/budget practice, and I mean really cement it, in October. I think I'm wasting too much energy trying to micro-refine everything instead of just focusing more on the big picture, and it's causing us to spin our wheels. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 19:16
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Planning ahead vs. not planning ahead: I think the disconnect here is that Knyteguy, when you have brought up the future, you have used the best case scenario ("by February I should have $X saved up!") and when we ask you to plan for the future, we mean the worst case scenario ("even though my wife is likely to have a perfectly normal pregnancy, I should over save for the birth just in case things go sideways"). When people rag on you for looking ahead, it's because your outlook usually does not consider the absolute worst case scenario. No one thinks you're actually going to have the unluckiest life around, but once in a while you ARE going to get hosed in the rear end by life. You just are, and the only choice you have is to be prepared for it or pretend it isn't coming. If you budget and save considering the worst case scenario, then life's little "gently caress you"s will not hurt nearly so bad. That said, part of a worst case scenario consideration is your mental health. Especially since you're having a kid, you being frugal but satisfied with the quality of your life is actually really important. You want to demonstrate for your kid what happy, well-adjusted adults look like. So a worst case scenario budget will still include discretionary spending. In fact, I think it would still include your trip this month. But I don't think it would include TWO major purchases in one month. It's a little gloomy but when I need a worst case scenario to plan around, I think "what if I or my husband were diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? How would my budget change?" I suspect yours would change quite a bit. Mine wouldn't have to change for 6 months at a minimum, and depending on which one of us got hosed by life, possibly would never need to change. Edit: this thread does move fast sometimes...I think your goal of falling under $500 discretionary does sound reasonable. Once you've managed that for a few months you'll be able to see what you can live with and without. Hawkperson fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 19:23
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"Knyteguy" posted:1) Pay off all minimums, bills, rent ect Your income isn't exactly set in stone every month, so if you put away all of your money into the accounts, and if there is 248 dollars left by your estimation after you fuel your minimums/bills/savings/discretionary, the money shouldn't go back into your discretionary account, it should go back into your savings accounts. Right now you're justifying that you have 1000 dollars for discretionary spending because you're prioritizing it. in reality, cut back the 1000 to 500, and put the 500 into your savings budget. Knyteguy posted:This is probably due to me not giving ourselves enough fun money. I don't like/don't like my wife having to think about spending $10 on crochet and whether that will break the budget or not. It sucks and it gets tiring, and I am tired of having to fight it so much. Knyte that's budgeting. you're supposed to feel uncomfortable making these decisions because you aren't at a point in which you have enough cash reserves/income/whatever to not have to make these choices. This is a daily struggle for me also, but it's something I accept as life and live with it. Sometimes I blew a budget so I can't afford to buy Prison Architect through the humble bundle because i prioritized my money elsewhere. Yeah it sucks not spending the 10 dollars, but come on, that's part of budgeting. Just like with dieting, if you over eat your calories, get out back on the treadmill and burn them or be satisfied drinking water and being hungry or eat some celery. It's life. It's normal to feel this way, but you have to learn to live with those feelings. On the flip side, your wife wouldn't have had to worry about that 10 dollar item if you didn't buy items X/Y/Z. You can fill in the blanks of what those are. Knyteguy posted:I think we (wife and I) really need to just take a step back and kind of reevaluate how we do everything. I'm going to disagree with you. It's both behavioral and methodology. Your methodology of over valuing your discretionary spending allows you to change your behaviors into more indulgence. You very well could change your methodology without changing your behaviors. A good example is I'd bet that if you went about this new way and toned down discretionary spending from restaurants and instead bought more extravagant groceries, then yes you changed the methodology without changing behaviors. You need to work on both. Also last point, you're getting mad because this is hard. Nobody is telling you this is easy, they're just explaining what you need to do. If you're having problems with how difficult this is, talk about that instead of trying to run away from the issue. Dropping 1k into your discretionary spending is running away instead of coming and saying, "I"M FREAKING THE gently caress OUT BECAUSE I FEEL POOR, OR I WANT A PS4 or whatever"
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Sep 22, 2014 19:28
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Knyteguy posted:I've taken many self-sacrificing steps (not trying to sound pretentious or smug here), and you think that I should just end it here over $500? I'm not giving up unless like slap me forces me to because this thread legit helps. Also: quote:I originally had budgeted $100 extra for the business category for a nice logo for a new website I'm making, but I cut that by $60 for the PS4. That will wait until November. And oh yeah: quote:we don't have a nursery. I was being an unselfish fucker and decided we should move into an apartment too small to save a lot of money before the baby was born. We did that on our own, and it takes a lot to not be miserable with 2 dogs, 3 cats, and too much stuff in 800sq/ft. So if I'm selfish every now and then so be it. So... you are putting off expanding your business, drying your clothes with a fan, and living in a crappy apartment that nobody told you to move into. Obviously, you should be able to buy a PS4 if you want to! You are happy to point out all the sacrifices that you are making. You are complaining loudly about the environment you live in, and justifying buying video games to make up for the misery of something YOU CHOSE. It's not about the PS4, or how long you have wanted it, or how awesome it's going to be trying to play games with a crying baby hanging around. It's about how you set up these situations to justify doing whatever you want to do. Nobody held a gun to your head and told you to buy vehicles that would be underwater for years to come. Nobody said "you should live in a shithole where you'll be miserable". Nobody said "make sure your pregnant wife doesn't waste money on luxuries like dry clothes." Nobody forced you to adopt too many pets for your living space. So I'm sorry, but no, you don't get to play the "but I've sacrificed so much already!" card, when all you've done is make yourself miserable just so that you can come on here, and whine about how miserable you are, and how blowing money on something unnecessary is what's going to keep you sane. You don't see it as a cycle, but it is. And in a few months, you're going to be climbing the walls even more, and looking for something else to buy instead of actually IMPROVING your situation. A PS4 will be fun for a little while, but you'll still be in a cramped space with too many pets, a crying baby, and no clothes dryer. You have goals of having X in savings, which is nice, but you need to figure out what your REAL goals are, and start figure out how to achieve them instead of just going "I want to buy something, ok, I'll buy it! WAAAHHHH I'm still not happy!" So yeah, pat yourself on the back for being unselfish, I guess? And meanwhile, ask yourself, if you had spent an extra $400 in rent to have a space you enjoy being in, how much less would you be spending every month on toys to make yourself feel better.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:05
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Veskit posted:Dropping 1k into your discretionary spending is running away instead of coming and saying, "I"M FREAKING THE gently caress OUT BECAUSE I FEEL POOR, OR I WANT A PS4 or whatever" It's hard to admit, but when your debts are more than your assets you are actually more poor than the guy living on the street corner with $5 in his cup. You have the ability to make more money, but you need to make up for the bad decisions/circumstances that put you behind. This takes discipline, hard work, and a good attitude.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:07
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quote:it takes a lot to not be miserable with 2 dogs, 3 cats, and too much stuff in 800sq/ft I don't think your purchases right now are all that bad, but beware of the future, friend! Cicero fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 20:17
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Knyteguy posted:wasting too much energy trying to micro-refine everything instead of just focusing more on the big picture, and it's causing us to spin our wheels. - Whatever the gently caress I might want to buy (~$100) - Think about it a while first (~$1000) - Don't touch it ever unless poo poo is hitting the fan (~$10000) This keeps me from getting confused between my emergency fund and my vacation fund
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Sep 22, 2014 20:35
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Knyteguy posted:You're right that those are the important goals. I think I'm focused on making sure the fun accounts are loaded up because I feel like we've had some austere months for a long time now, and I just need the budget to give a little. This is probably due to me not giving ourselves enough fun money. I don't like/don't like my wife having to think about spending $10 on crochet and whether that will break the budget or not. It sucks and it gets tiring, and I am tired of having to fight it so much. I know I keep harping on this, but I think it's really critical: don't spend most/all of your discretionary budget at the start of the month. All that does is guarantee you'll struggle to stay within budget while still feeling deprived all month. quote:I see some people say "oh yea I can get by on $50/mo fun money" but I guess I'm just not that awesome yet. Maybe I set my standards too high. I think going forward we should start with $500.00 a month for a few month in discretionary, but try to stay under that. If we can do that for awhile then hey we can readjust in a few months and make it lower. Maybe I've been trying to do too much too fast too soon.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:39
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Your post reminds me that if nothing else I need to get some good life insurance, and maybe some for my wife as well. We have enough to cover burial but not much else. Would hate to leave them in a position where my wife's job was the only thing keeping them afloat (no offense babe). April posted:So... you are putting off expanding your business, drying your clothes with a fan, and living in a crappy apartment that nobody told you to move into. Obviously, you should be able to buy a PS4 if you want to! You are happy to point out all the sacrifices that you are making. You are complaining loudly about the environment you live in, and justifying buying video games to make up for the misery of something YOU CHOSE.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:43
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I did qualify it with not trying to be pretentious or smug 
. I don't think it's fair to call my actions selfish either though, at least as a whole. I can't answer the second one, I don't know.
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Cicero posted:Oh man, how did I not see this before? Knyteguy, dealing with a newborn is painful enough as it is, doing it when you also have 5 pets in a modestly-sized apartment sounds like an absolute nightmare. I agree with April that it sounds like you're using purchases to relieve stress, and an infant is gonna amp up those stress levels enormously. You will get bad sleep and will suddenly be doing twice as many dishes and 2-3x the laundry and frequently cleaning up random messes. And that's not a worst case scenario, it's the average case. Thanks. And yea the home situation is already stressful. February (when the baby should be due) to July is going to be difficult. My office is the dining room. I wish we would have at least given the drastic downgrade a little more thought. slap me silly posted:Yeah, this is an easy trap to fall into with budgeting. There are really only three things you can do with money: buy something you need, buy something you want, or keep it for later. Every item in your budget falls under one of those. Any extra categories you spend time thinking about should be there to help you somehow. Like for me, I split the keep-it-for-later category into three savings accounts: I was thinking about setting up a separate savings account (maybe a checking) for maybe our rollover discretionary if we have any, and just making our current savings account the de-facto emergency. I think we can even label them IIRC for online use. Giraffe posted:How much have you estimated your vacation is likely to cost? When you subtract that and the PS4 from your $1000 discretionary, how much is left for the month?
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Sep 22, 2014 20:50
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Knyteguy posted:I did qualify it with not trying to be pretentious or smug . I don't think it's fair to call my actions selfish either though, at least as a whole. I can't answer the second one, I don't know. It's selfish, because you are saying "I am going to spend money on this expensive thing to make myself feel better" instead of saying "I am going to do X to improve the situation that's making me miserable." For example, the clothes-drying with a fan. What are you going to do when the baby gets a stomach flu, and throws up over many, many pieces of clothing and bedding? Instead of saying "I'm miserable, I need an electronic pacifier to make me feel better!" why not ask yourself WHY you are miserable, and how you can change the sources of your misery instead of just throwing money at more "stuff"? I should point out that you've also stated you have too much stuff already. The pets are a whole other issue. I don't want this to get all PI, and I'm in agreement that when you adopt a pet, it should be for their lifetime, but it doesn't sound like a very good environment for any of you.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:51
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Veskit posted:Your income isn't exactly set in stone every month, so if you put away all of your money into the accounts, and if there is 248 dollars left by your estimation after you fuel your minimums/bills/savings/discretionary, the money shouldn't go back into your discretionary account, it should go back into your savings accounts. Right now you're justifying that you have 1000 dollars for discretionary spending because you're prioritizing it. in reality, cut back the 1000 to 500, and put the 500 into your savings budget. Good points again Veskit thanks. I'll be going over the past couple of days a few times again when I get home, and I'm going to try to draw up a plan.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:00
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April posted:It's selfish, because you are saying "I am going to spend money on this expensive thing to make myself feel better" instead of saying "I am going to do X to improve the situation that's making me miserable." Meh pets are fine they're living. Our one dog just lounges on the couch all day, and the other dog gets to hang out on the porch when we're home and dig and eat apples that fall off the tree. It's not really the same as having a backyard for them, but it's only temporary. I don't have a baby yet so it's hard for me to feel much for the kid, but I want a house for the animals if nothing else. Not a townhouse either, but a real house with a dog door, and a yard. That's my main goal right now. I pretty much understand why I'm miserable/stressed out about some things (I'm happy on a whole). Unfortunately there's no good solution to a lovely place, at least without it costing us a lot of money. I'll try to stop bringing up the living situation.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:07
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Knyteguy posted:Good points again Veskit thanks. I'll be going over the past couple of days a few times again when I get home, and I'm going to try to draw up a plan. Now you're starting to get closer to the real problem. Having a PS4 won't make your commute any shorter, or your apartment any larger. It might be a temporary stress relief, but believe me, when the new baby comes home, it's not going to help at all. You'll still have all of the other issues, plus, when you get home at the end of the day, your wife is going to be exhausted and overwhelmed and she's going to want you to take the baby for a couple of hours so she can have a meal and a shower, or maybe even a few hours' sleep. You probably won't get to play it at all when you are at your most stressed. ETA: quote:I pretty much understand why I'm miserable/stressed out about some things (I'm happy on a whole). Unfortunately there's no good solution to a lovely place, at least without it costing us a lot of money. I'll try to stop bringing up the living situation. Have you tried to find some compromise on the living space? You really don't see what is happening here - as long as you are unhappy, you're going to keep wasting money on dumb poo poo, and be even more stuck as far as living conditions. So what would it take to fix the real issues? April fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 21:10
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Knyteguy posted:I wish we would have at least given the drastic downgrade a little more thought. Replace "drastic downgrade" with the myriad of other things you've told the thread you've wanted and you might begin to see why people harp on you for those things you want. It's definitely a pattern that's hard to miss. I mean, it's becoming clear that your home situation is causing you a lot of unnecessary stress and strain that's leading to a lot of "needs" and "wants" that could probably be rationalized away and avoided if you weren't under so much stress and strain. So, too late since you already moved and made the drastic downgrade decision. But maybe try and frame your stress-relief tactics (as other posters have pointed out) in the context of, "How does this help with my *real* problem which is that my home life has become really lovely?" e;fb by April who is posting some loving pro advice here.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:12
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ExtrudeAlongCurve posted:Replace "drastic downgrade" with the myriad of other things you've told the thread you've wanted and you might begin to see why people harp on you for those things you want. It's definitely a pattern that's hard to miss. Knyteguy, what about, instead of saying "I want to have $X in savings by February" you start saying "I want a better home lined up by July" (or whenever your lease is up). I'm not going to touch the whole "don't really care about the baby yet, but dogs need more space" thing, but look at ALL the things that are making you unhappy - the drive, the tiny apartment, the lack of laundry facilities. And start looking at houses or whatever in the area you'd like to be, and figuring out how much it would take to get into one. Don't kneejerk. Don't say "hey, SA said to move, let's go!" But really stop and think and plan for once, for something that will actually improve your life, instead of just letting you escape for a few hours, that you aren't going to get to use nearly as much as you think you will. You have someone willing to give you what? $20,000 to put towards a house? And you'd rather sit in a hole in the wall that's overrun with pets and wet clothes and play a video game? Jesus.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:20
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Knyteguy posted:Plan is/was?: Vacation: $300, PS4: $600 (addl controller plus game), $100 for anything else. Vacation easily could be $200. For October to be an actual useful month for you, budget-wise, here's what I would do: 1. Take the vacation out of your last months' savings. Remove it from your monthly budget. Normally, you should plan ahead for this stuff but I'm granting you an exemption. 2. Give yourself $500 discretionary for the month (this doesn't include your vacation, provided it stays under $300). Don't buy a PS4 before October 30th. Start the month with all of that $500 in your budget and see how you feel and how your spending is. Come back here in late October with a report on where your spending is at and see how you feel about the PS4 purchase after typing everything out. I'd argue that the sooner you start practicing living under a budget where extra money is spent at the end of the month, not the beginning, the better.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:25
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Just because some posters in here (and myself I imagine) have hassled you doesn't mean you get to just toss money down a hole whenever you want. It really feels like you're just using whatever justifications possible to make the purchasing decisions you want. I think it's good that you have gotten your head around the idea of savings being a bill and paying that first before you spend money on anything else. The next step is to not just go raiding that savings whenever you want to. A budget is not meant to be something that changes month to month in total spending. What I mean here is that if on one month you save $1000, you spend $1000 on fixed bills, and you have $1000 for food/blow/etc you stick with those amounts. The next month you budget the same $3000 and you save the $1000 first and you spend $1000 on the fixed bills and maybe this time you only spend $800 on the variable costs. You 'save' the $200 so if you want to spend $1200 on the variable costs next month you're free to do so. You're not supposed to just decide the next month you want to spend $3500 and come up with justifications for it like 'I deserve it' or 'I've thought about this for a while'. I would challenge you to work on a budget where the total $ amount doesn't change and try to stick with that. If you want to purchase things that exceed your budget for the month you should save up previous months to pay for it. This is exclusive of the savings that you're doing to rebuild your financial stability. I think it's fine to not fund a college education but you aren't even funding retirements at this point so you've got a ways to go.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:28
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April posted:Knyteguy, what about, instead of saying "I want to have $X in savings by February" you start saying "I want a better home lined up by July" (or whenever your lease is up). I'm not going to touch the whole "don't really care about the baby yet, but dogs need more space" thing, but look at ALL the things that are making you unhappy - the drive, the tiny apartment, the lack of laundry facilities. And start looking at houses or whatever in the area you'd like to be, and figuring out how much it would take to get into one. Erm well I care about the kid of course, that came off wrong. I just can't really think about how that will all work yet. It's too much for my mind to grasp, and I've just never had a lot of baby exposure at all. I already know what it costs around here . It's about $1,100-$1,300 a month for a rental in the area around my work, which is a great neighborhood within walking distance. I was trying to give my wife no commute by moving to the area we did but I think I'd rather her just stay at home, raise the kid, and pick up a skill that isn't working in retail. She's not happy at her job as it is, and my job is pretty secure.So really here is what it would take, at least for now: 1) A house with a garage, an office/private place, a dog door, and a nursery. All of this would be great so my wife's extended family could come visit down here, making her more happy in the process. 2) My wife staying at home and rearing the baby/picking up a professional skill when/if she has time. Or her getting a job outside of retail with normal hours and normal days off. 3) My commute within walking/biking distance. 4) Working towards saving a house down payment, with a nice emergency fund 5) Getting rid of the car debt one way or another. Slightly in order but not wholly so. n8r/Giraffe/ExtrudeAlongCurve I will get back to you guys on your posts. Trying to make sure I give work enough attention today. Also this later as well: You have someone willing to give you what? $20,000 to put towards a house? And you'd rather sit in a hole in the wall that's overrun with pets and wet clothes and play a video game? Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 21:39
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