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Quality of the writing aside, people don't seem to be able to separate JC's portrayal in IW from their own biases. Of course if you played the first game you wanna like JC, but it was Absolutely Intentional that he says things that make you uneasy. You're supposed to have a crisis of faith about it. A lot of people won't put much thought in it and go with him anyway, just because "Hey that was the guy from the first game," and that's fine, but remember that he's not just JC anymore - he's merged with Helios, and from what we know of Helios' origins it was pretty naive (myself included originally) to assume the merger would constitute a happy ending. He might have been better off were he to merge with just Daedalus, but with Icarus in the picture things get a little less utopian. I thought it was impressively ballsy that they actually went and made JC's idealism turn into something most people in real life would find rather uncomfortable, and that they didn't make any of the endings really "Good" for humanity as it exists now. Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Sep 18, 2014 |
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Sep 18, 2014 02:22
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Why isn't steam's Deus Ex goty steamplay? I thought there was a native mac version along with all the old UT99 engine games back in the day.
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Sep 18, 2014 02:49
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GoldenNugget posted:Why isn't steam's Deus Ex goty steamplay? I thought there was a native mac version along with all the old UT99 engine games back in the day. There was, for the PowerPC versions of the Mac. You can't run it nowdays.
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Sep 18, 2014 02:56
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Hard Clumping posted:I wonder if your problems with the plot come from the presentation, which was just awful, like the 20 minute conversation with Paul Denton in a box, where all he basically says is "Don't take me out of the box." The both being the same side was one of the worst bits. It makes very little sense narratively how both of them are sending you to contradictory objectives for half the game, it ruins any connection the player has to a side on ideological grounds (not that you could have much of one, the WTO's asshats and the Order is the most watered down pap ever to pass for a religion), and it's a poo poo plan. You don't unify people by setting them at each other's throats and then going "No, turns out they're cool." That only makes both groups rise against you as traitors to The Cause. I do agree with the Omar ending. For all the crap they get, they're the only people who don't gently caress you over.
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Sep 18, 2014 03:19
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fleshweasel posted:The tutorial doesn't really help in Deus Ex. Every single person I know who played the game recalls blowing their own legs off the first time they did the tutorial. The first time I played the Tutorial was after I had beaten the game twice. I still blew my legs off.
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Sep 18, 2014 11:26
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chiasaur11 posted:The both being the same side was one of the worst bits. It makes very little sense narratively how both of them are sending you to contradictory objectives for half the game, it ruins any connection the player has to a side on ideological grounds (not that you could have much of one, the WTO's asshats and the Order is the most watered down pap ever to pass for a religion), and it's a poo poo plan. You don't unify people by setting them at each other's throats and then going "No, turns out they're cool." That only makes both groups rise against you as traitors to The Cause. Again, not to say the game didn't have some serious flaws, but I'm seeing personal biases towards what you think the game is Supposed to be like. The whole thing was that the Illuminati were playing both sides against the middle. The WTO and Order are SUPPOSED to be really crappy, because the illuminati are scheming pieces of poo poo who in the Deus Ex universe have pitted every side against every other for thousands of years. The WTO/Order were meant to fill voids for religious/scientific/etc. citizens of the post-collapse earth, and just because Alex saw the cracks in their respective messages and eventually found out the truth doesn't mean that every WTO/Order soldier did. The low-ranking schmo isn't told weird high-risk poo poo to do by the Order/WTO on an hourly basis. The presentation left a lot to be desired, but both the WTO and The Order were meant to be very lovely, unnerving organizations that you were meant to side with only as far as achieving your own ends. I think the idea was that Chad Dumier and Nicolette DuClair were so masterful at what they do (having been taught by DeBeers, Everett, and Beth DuClare) that for each of the conflicting tasks they have you do, whatever way it plays out is advantageous to them in some way, and were manipulating Alex because they knew s/he was capable, being from the Denton line and all. The mistake came when they never showed the player what was actually going on other than a vague "ha ha we were playing you" was so it just kinda came off weak. (I generally choose the WTO because there are less loading screens between Seattle's Tarsus and their HQ) Make no mistake, the DX Illuminati are very heartless pieces of poo poo and, although they see their intentions as good just like everybody else, they're very much an ends-justifies-the-means type organization in the most unflinching way possible. You not liking their offshoots does Not necessarily mean that the writing was poor. On another topic, one big thing that the first two DX games did that ticked me off: as soon as you, The Player Character, learn about a supersecret organization bent on domination they suddenly have troops in Very public places en masse with fancy uniforms. In DX1 it was MJ12 (although you could find them in the sewer way earlier which was rad), and in DX2 it was those bald fellas who poo poo gas when they die. Way too convenient and player-centric.
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Sep 19, 2014 23:04
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Hard Clumping posted:On another topic, one big thing that the first two DX games did that ticked me off: as soon as you, The Player Character, learn about a supersecret organization bent on domination they suddenly have troops in Very public places en masse with fancy uniforms. In DX1 it was MJ12 (although you could find them in the sewer way earlier which was rad), and in DX2 it was those bald fellas who poo poo gas when they die. Way too convenient and player-centric. I think the events of the games are the real poo poo-hits-fan moments which is why they're suddenly operating out in the open. If the games took place during relative secrecy and coverups, it probably wouldn't make for a very fun game. If you read the newspapers scattered about a lot (but not all) of the events are covered in the news.
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Sep 19, 2014 23:16
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FlyingCheese posted:I think the events of the games are the real poo poo-hits-fan moments which is why they're suddenly operating out in the open. If the games took place during relative secrecy and coverups, it probably wouldn't make for a very fun game. If you read the newspapers scattered about a lot (but not all) of the events are covered in the news. Hmm, you might be right. It never bothered me in Deus Ex because it really felt like poo poo was spiraling, but in IW it seemed way more out of the blue and my irritation went retroactive.
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Sep 19, 2014 23:32
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I'm up in UNATCO headquarters having escaped from the MJ12 base and I've just realised I forgot to set the NSF guy free from the cell opposite JC's, and the door back down to the base is permalocked 
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Sep 23, 2014 03:25
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Oh the things they'll do to him. Walton Simons has a bit of a temper.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:31
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Butterfly Valley posted:I'm up in UNATCO headquarters having escaped from the MJ12 base and I've just realised I forgot to set the NSF guy free from the cell opposite JC's, and the door back down to the base is permalocked What a shame.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:41
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The reward for saving him is so great too! One line of dialog
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Sep 23, 2014 06:01
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I would think the satisfaction of saving another man's life would be reward enough.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:36
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I would think the satisfaction of saving another man's life would be reward enough.
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Sep 23, 2014 18:42
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I'd done a 100% pacifist run up until that point as well, knocking out every NSF in battery park and Hell's Kitchen without a single one dying or any of the UNATCO grunts copping it. That fight outside the 'ton was a massive pain in the arse to successfully pacify. I even knocked out every single guy who came for Paul. Poor NSF trooper 
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Sep 24, 2014 00:58
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I don't understand why not letting anybody die in Hell's Kitchen is part of a pacifist run? You're not personally causing the harm! Call that a "superman run"
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Sep 24, 2014 23:18
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As I have previously established it's Batman run.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:30
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It's my second time through the game and I'm going Pacifist. So far its been relatively easy but I'm only up to the first Hells Kitchen. I already screwed the pooch at preventing the fighting in Battery Park so if people are going to shoot each other I'm not going to stop them. I'm optimistic but I have no clue how I'm going to handle Paul's apartment or Navarre though. Theres not enough gas grenades and tranq darts in the world. I'm hoping I can tranq the NSF leader and have that count at least.
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Sep 29, 2014 13:44
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MrSlam posted:It's my second time through the game and I'm going Pacifist. So far its been relatively easy but I'm only up to the first Hells Kitchen. I already screwed the pooch at preventing the fighting in Battery Park so if people are going to shoot each other I'm not going to stop them. I'm optimistic but I have no clue how I'm going to handle Paul's apartment or Navarre though. Theres not enough gas grenades and tranq darts in the world. I'm hoping I can tranq the NSF leader and have that count at least. Pauls Apartment is going to be a lot of quickloads my friend. All I can say is, if people are at low health from bullets they will get knocked unconscious faster. Try to have Paul weaken them for you. Sadly tranqing the NSF leader implies that Anna just kills him after you leave. Truly the only to save him is to pick him up and take him with you.
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Sep 29, 2014 15:11
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It was fun how Anna would like you more if you played as a complete murderous rear end in a top hat, but that always winds up in the same plot place.
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Sep 29, 2014 15:21
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I think in a good pacifist run (but not Batman run I guess) it is acceptable to tranq Lebedev and walk away, even if the game assumes someone killed him. Then in UNATCO whenever you're fighting Anna, go to the door, realize it is locked, then kill Anna because you have no other choice. I mean people are dying of the plague all over the place, you can't save everyone anyway.
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Sep 29, 2014 19:28
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EngineerSean posted:Then in UNATCO whenever you're fighting Anna, go to the door, realize it is locked, then kill Anna because you have no other choice. There's always a choice  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsh24FmYlNQ
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Sep 29, 2014 19:30
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Even if you carry Lebedev with you, the story assumes that he dies if Navarre doesn't, right?
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Sep 29, 2014 19:38
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:There's always a choice This is just a glitch and the game still treats it like she died. Game over buddy, you are now a murderer.
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Sep 29, 2014 19:49
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Geight posted:Even if you carry Lebedev with you, the story assumes that he dies if Navarre doesn't, right? How can he be dead? You're carrying him around with you! He's right there! EngineerSean posted:This is just a glitch and the game still treats it like she died. Game over buddy, you are now a murderer. That's the game's fault. My conscience is clear.
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Sep 29, 2014 19:51
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Do you think that's a defense in a court of law? If anything, throwing that grenade in a government building probably carries a higher charge. Poor Janice had a heart attack. Manderly was killed by Walton Simons for incompetence. Anna ran off into the woods and lived as a feral beast, occasionally clearing out a room full of terrorists. Now even more people are dead.
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Sep 29, 2014 20:02
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The only solution is to mod the game to let you put unconscious people in your inventory.
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Sep 29, 2014 20:16
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EngineerSean posted:Do you think that's a defense in a court of law? If anything, throwing that grenade in a government building probably carries a higher charge. I'd like to imagine he tripped and fell with the grenade in his hand. It is only JC's first day and all.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:07
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EngineerSean posted:Manderly was killed by Walton Simons for incompetence. It brings up a conundrum; if you have Lebedev with you when escape UNATCO, who should you take with you to Hong Kong? No matter who you leave, they're going to die; Manderley by Simons, or Lebedev by UNATCO troopers or Simons. Should Lebedev be allowed to hang out in the middle of the control room in Tong's lab, or should Manderely be taken over to Tong's so that he can relax with Jacobson and help him? Either way, it makes a Batman run truly impossible.
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Sep 30, 2014 06:30
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Hide Manderly in the storage shed, code 0451 Lebedev too, but make sure their clothes are off first.
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Sep 30, 2014 06:56
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EngineerSean posted:Hide Manderly in the storage shed, code 0451 I actually considered this. But when he woke up he would probably alert somebody and then get killed. I'm thinking the best thing to do would be to leave Lebedev down in that little locked hatch next to the shed, with written instructions to wait there. Then maybe Jaime or Jacobson can get him on their way out somehow.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:06
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closeted republican posted:It brings up a conundrum; if you have Lebedev with you when escape UNATCO, who should you take with you to Hong Kong? No matter who you leave, they're going to die; Manderley by Simons, or Lebedev by UNATCO troopers or Simons. Should Lebedev be allowed to hang out in the middle of the control room in Tong's lab, or should Manderely be taken over to Tong's so that he can relax with Jacobson and help him? Obviously, you save Private Lloyd.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:07
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That reminds me, what the gently caress is up with the UNATCO trooper's eyes? I googled it and evidently they 'corrected' it for the PS2 version.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:10
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chiasaur11 posted:Obviously, you save Private Lloyd. It is canon that Lloyd doesn't die and MUST remain in New York.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:13
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EngineerSean posted:It is canon that Lloyd doesn't die and MUST remain in New York. Lloyd got a 7.62mm round to the head in my last run because gently caress that guy. If he was your true friend, he wouldn't eagerly shoot at you like the rest of the troops do.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:21
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My JC leaves UNATCO HQ the way he entered it: in a haze of gas grenades, prod stuns and zyme intoxication.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:27
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closeted republican posted:Lloyd got a 7.62mm round to the head in my last run because gently caress that guy. If he was your true friend, he wouldn't eagerly shoot at you like the rest of the troops do. They told him it was an initiation prank!
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Sep 30, 2014 07:38
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closeted republican posted:It brings up a conundrum; if you have Lebedev with you when escape UNATCO, who should you take with you to Hong Kong? No matter who you leave, they're going to die; Manderley by Simons, or Lebedev by UNATCO troopers or Simons. Should Lebedev be allowed to hang out in the middle of the control room in Tong's lab, or should Manderely be taken over to Tong's so that he can relax with Jacobson and help him? Take Lebedev with you until the next New York section, dump his rear end on the roof of the 'Ton Hotel. No-one ever checks there.
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Sep 30, 2014 08:56
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Is there a way around the locked doors in the 747 to get to the NSF boss? I only have 1 lockpick.
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Sep 30, 2014 16:23
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Upmarket Mango posted:Is there a way around the locked doors in the 747 to get to the NSF boss? I only have 1 lockpick. The key is in a room on the plane with a lot of screens in it, upstairs in a back corner I think? Going from memory.
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Sep 30, 2014 16:24
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