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Acebuckeye13 posted:I hate it when people say things like this, as saying "Warren would be the next FDR" is completely devoid of the context that allowed FDR to be the President he was. The fact of the matter is, there will never be another president like Franklin Roosevelt. In 1932 Roosevelt was an exceedingly successful and popular Governor in one of the most populous states in the country with a legendary family name, an incredibly amount of wealth, a deep understanding of politics, and most importantly, was facing a seemingly heartless and ineffective Republican candidate after three and a half years of the worst economic crisis in American history. Combined with a friendly media and overwhelming congressional support after he came into office, Roosevelt had a unique ability to enact his policy goals with no meaningful opposition. What made Roosevelt so successful, however, was his ability to surround himself with exceedingly competent people, and to place exactly the right people in the right place to maximize their effectiveness. Does Elizabeth Warren have that ability? She doesn't have much executive experience to my knowledge, so there's really no way to know. But she's not going to be another FDR no matter how progressive she is, and urging her to run before her first term as Senator has even concluded is only going to lead to disappointment. I don't know, I'd take "inexperienced woman who would at least try to not gently caress things up badly" over "rich white Republican rear end in a top hat that's going to actively sabotage the prosperity of your average American and line the pockets of the rich."
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Sep 23, 2014 03:07
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Sure, but he's not talking about whether or not she'd be decent or better than a Republican, just whether they'd be able to pull off anything close to what FDR did. The fact of the matter is that unless a Republican is elected, almost nothing is going to get done in the next presidential term and a Republican president is just going to accomplish terrible things. You could literally resurrect FDR and he wouldn't be able to get anything done, either.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:12
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Edit: Also that ^^^ToxicSlurpee posted:I don't know, I'd take "inexperienced woman who would at least try to not gently caress things up badly" over "rich white Republican rear end in a top hat that's going to actively sabotage the prosperity of your average American and line the pockets of the rich." That's not the choice you're being asked to make, and it's ridiculous to suggest that it is. The choice here is whether to support Warren for President now, which would rob her of much-needed legislative and executive experience, or support another democrat for the meantime while Warren sits in the Senate, gathers experience, and potentially runs for Governor further down the line or gets picked up for VP. You can support Warren for President now, but don't go around expecting her to be the next FDR when the circumstances and experience gap between the two are so radically different.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:18
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I don't know, I'd take "inexperienced woman who would at least try to not gently caress things up badly" over "rich white Republican rear end in a top hat that's going to actively sabotage the prosperity of your average American and line the pockets of the rich." That has nothing to do with the post you quoted, that poster was (rightly) upset that people were diminishing the contexts and greatness of FDR by using 'the next FDR' to mean 'basically anyone I like'. Warren would probably make an ok president, and would for sure better than (insert R nominee here barring some kinda crazy shift thing), but probably no one will be 'the next FDR'.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:27
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I don't know, I'd take "inexperienced woman who would at least try to not gently caress things up badly" over "rich white Republican rear end in a top hat that's going to actively sabotage the prosperity of your average American and line the pockets of the rich." I think one of Warren's big advantages is that she is experienced with financial shenanigans. She won't need Clinton era cronies to back her up on financial polices like Obama did. But the FDR comparison only makes sense if you went to school in the South and never learned about FDR except in your state mandated textbooks. She's the next FDR like Truman was the next FDR.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:54
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OneTwentySix posted:You could literally resurrect FDR and he wouldn't be able to get anything done, either. This is still worth a try.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:18
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OneTwentySix posted:You could literally resurrect FDR and he wouldn't be able to get anything done, either. That's why if you're resurrecting a Roosevelt you've got to go with TR.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:29
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Gyges posted:That's why if you're resurrecting a Roosevelt you've got to go with TR. So this is what living in the beginning of a horror movie is like.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:50
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Well originally they resurrected the Kennedys but it wouldn't stick.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:03
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Fulchrum posted:So this is what living in the beginning of a horror movie is like. That's a horror movie I'd watch. TR goes on a bloody trust-busting rampage.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:03
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I don't know, I'd take "inexperienced woman who would at least try to not gently caress things up badly" over "rich white Republican rear end in a top hat that's going to actively sabotage the prosperity of your average American and line the pockets of the rich." That's effectively what the Obama decision was unless you actually think he's a cackling secret right wing caricature (which isn't backed up at all by private correspondence).
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Sep 23, 2014 05:13
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FAUXTON posted:That's a horror movie I'd watch. TR goes on a bloody trust-busting rampage. This happened in an issue of deadpool, kind of. Forget the issue number, though. 
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Sep 23, 2014 05:16
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Full Battle Rattle posted:This happened in an issue of deadpool, kind of. Forget the issue number, though. Teddy would have never boxed a captive bear.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:17
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FAUXTON posted:Teddy would have never boxed a captive bear. That's right, he'd set him free and let him breed then box the offspring when it came of age.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:21
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Full Battle Rattle posted:This happened in an issue of deadpool, kind of. Forget the issue number, though. Deadpool Vol. 3 Issue 2. The second issue of Brian Posehn's great ongoing Deadpool run. Dead Presidents was probably my least favorite arc of his run so far though.
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Sep 23, 2014 05:39
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Full Battle Rattle posted:This happened in an issue of deadpool, kind of. Forget the issue number, though. Quick! Someone find Donald Ducks mother! Its our only hope!
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Sep 23, 2014 07:15
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I hate it when people say things like this, as saying "Warren would be the next FDR" is completely devoid of the context that allowed FDR to be the President he was. The fact of the matter is, there will never be another president like Franklin Roosevelt. In 1932 Roosevelt was an exceedingly successful and popular Governor in one of the most populous states in the country with a legendary family name, an incredibly amount of wealth, a deep understanding of politics, and most importantly, was facing a seemingly heartless and ineffective Republican candidate after three and a half years of the worst economic crisis in American history. Combined with a friendly media and overwhelming congressional support after he came into office, Roosevelt had a unique ability to enact his policy goals with no meaningful opposition. What made Roosevelt so successful, however, was his ability to surround himself with exceedingly competent people, and to place exactly the right people in the right place to maximize their effectiveness. Does Elizabeth Warren have that ability? She doesn't have much executive experience to my knowledge, so there's really no way to know. But she's not going to be another FDR no matter how progressive she is, and urging her to run before her first term as Senator has even concluded is only going to lead to disappointment. Good thing I didn't say that. I was just answering the question as to 'why' people want her to run. And that is because they wanted another politician with the same sort of policy goals as FDR and that her and Sanders are the only people at the moment who even remotely speak to that sort of policy. Believe me I understand that there isn't another FDR coming anytime in the foreseeable future.
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Sep 23, 2014 07:34
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Caros posted:Good thing I didn't say that. I was just answering the question as to 'why' people want her to run. And that is because they wanted another politician with the same sort of policy goals as FDR and that her and Sanders are the only people at the moment who even remotely speak to that sort of policy. Believe me I understand that there isn't another FDR coming anytime in the foreseeable future. Clone FDR, swap brains with Donald Trump. BOOM.
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Sep 23, 2014 07:38
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How do we stop Trumps hairpeice from eating FDR's brain too?
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Sep 23, 2014 09:26
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VitalSigns posted:This is still worth a try. One thing I always suggested was to elect Nixon's corpse. Nobody would gently caress with America after that. Not only did we pick one of the worst presidents but we also elected his dead body. And hey, the constitution doesn't specify that the president needs to be alive when elected just what happens if he dies in office. If he's already dead he can't die in office, now can we?
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Sep 23, 2014 10:00
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Nobody can serve more than two terms, and he served a portion of his second term before impeachment. And according to Futurama, the corpse has the limitation, not Nixons soul.
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Sep 23, 2014 10:15
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During Bush's 2nd term, Lewis Black suggested nominating Ronald Reagan's corpse for President. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRm-QcIAVPM
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Sep 23, 2014 10:49
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Fulchrum posted:Nobody can serve more than two terms, and he served a portion of his second term before impeachment. And according to Futurama, the corpse has the limitation, not Nixons soul. No body. So headless agnew/head of nixon is a go.
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Sep 23, 2014 13:18
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Fulchrum posted:How do we stop Trumps hairpeice from eating FDR's brain too? You assume that the ridiculousness of the hair is not itself a natural visible sign of the absurdity of Donald Trump himself, much like how Sith lords always looks incredibly ancient and decrepit.
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Sep 23, 2014 14:45
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You honestly believe that that thing is human in origin, let alone a part of Trump?
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Sep 23, 2014 14:47
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TARDISman posted:That's right, he'd set him free and let him breed then box the offspring when it came of age. My favorite TR anecdote is he went blind in one eye while President without telling anybody because he was boxing and had a detached retina. After that he took up jiujitsu.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:10
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Combined with a friendly media and overwhelming congressional support after he came into office, Roosevelt had a unique ability to enact his policy goals with no meaningful opposition. Not hardly. Pushback from the wealthy, a hostile supreme court that knocked down ~70% of his policies, a proto-Rush Limbaugh, a fascist coup plotted by business leaders - Roosevelt certainly faced meaningful opposition. Not to mention having loving polio and keeping it a secret from the public. You might be talking out your rear end to bolster your opinions on modern politics. Just gonna throw that one out there. The ability to enact policy when you have no meaningful opposition isn't unique or special in any way. On the other hand that wasn't Roosevelt's situation either. He had a mandate just about like the one that existed in 2008 - a recent economic crash, a good showing in the popular vote, solid control in the house, but no supermajority in the senate (at the time, 2/3, not 60%). What makes him different is he managed to get his policies enacted in spite of the things he had going against him, not make excuses and fritter away his mandate like Obama did. Now as to whether Warren would have the connections, political skill, charisma, etc to make that happen - probably not yet, at least. She's only been in politics for like 4 years, and only held elected office for 2 of them. It's questionable whether it'll ever happen given her age, but the Senate is the right place to try and build those bona fides. And I personally find her to be a reasonably charismatic speaker, at least. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 17:25
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Party Plane Jones posted:My favorite TR anecdote is he went blind in one eye while President without telling anybody because he was boxing and had a detached retina. That's hilarious. The usual one is the time he got shot while heading to a speech and decided he was OK since he wasn't coughing up blood. The bullet was slowed by the written speech (which took 90 minutes to deliver and when he was done his shirt was all bloody) and his steel eyeglass case, but still lodged in his chest muscle. The doctors he saw afterward decided they were better off leaving it. The bullet caused him trouble for the rest of his life. 
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Sep 23, 2014 18:25
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FAUXTON posted:That's hilarious. The usual one is the time he got shot while heading to a speech and decided he was OK since he wasn't coughing up blood. The bullet was slowed by the written speech (which took 90 minutes to deliver and when he was done his shirt was all bloody) and his steel eyeglass case, but still lodged in his chest muscle. The doctors he saw afterward decided they were better off leaving it. Well, considering the doctors probably killed McKinley trying to remove a bullet that may have been the best course....
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Sep 23, 2014 21:31
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I think that was Garfield, actually. (Boy we shoot a lot of presidents.)
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Sep 23, 2014 22:45
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Mantis42 posted:I think that was Garfield, actually. (Boy we shoot a lot of presidents.) Both of them, really. McKinley died from gangrene caused by the exploratory abdominal surgery they did to try and find the bullet.
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Sep 23, 2014 22:52
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Mantis42 posted:(Boy we shoot a lot of presidents.) I'm actually surprised no one's shot at Obama yet.
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Sep 23, 2014 23:25
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I could have sworn someone popped a few rounds off at the white house a couple of years ago.
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Sep 23, 2014 23:51
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Cythereal posted:I'm actually surprised no one's shot at Obama yet. frankly if you'd asked me in 2008, I would have given 50/50 odds that he would be dead by now secret service have gotta be crazy good at their jobs
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Sep 23, 2014 23:54
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A couple people did try mailing him Ricin.
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Sep 24, 2014 00:02
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There was actually a really well-planned assassination raid on Obama, but because of a hilarious name mix-up and the fact that their houses were the same color, the attackers ended up killing some Muslim guy in Abottabad instead 
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Sep 24, 2014 00:15
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Paul MaudDib posted:Now as to whether Warren would have the connections, political skill, charisma, etc to make that happen - probably not yet, at least. She's only been in politics for like 4 years, and only held elected office for 2 of them. It's questionable whether it'll ever happen given her age, but the Senate is the right place to try and build those bona fides. And I personally find her to be a reasonably charismatic speaker, at least. Actually she's been going back and forth between Washington and MA since sometime in the mid-90s, long before most of us even knew her name post-2008 crash. She was brought in to study/analyze bankruptcy mostly, but her claim to fame was opposing the bankruptcy reform acts that ended up passing during the Bush years in the early 2000s. She already had contacts with many people in Congress by then including Ted Kennedy and Barney Frank so her bona fides are much longer and deeper than most people give her credit for.
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Sep 24, 2014 00:40
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Paul MaudDib posted:Not hardly. Pushback from the wealthy, a hostile supreme court that knocked down ~70% of his policies, a proto-Rush Limbaugh, a fascist coup plotted by business leaders - Roosevelt certainly faced meaningful opposition. Not to mention having loving polio and keeping it a secret from the public. I've never heard of proto rush or the coup before...
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Sep 24, 2014 01:56
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Pillowpants posted:I've never heard of proto rush or the coup before... Charles Coughlin and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot respectively.
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Sep 24, 2014 01:57
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Cythereal posted:I'm actually surprised no one's shot at Obama yet. We've seen what happens when the current crop of militia types take action. I kind of suspect that the right secretly love to hate Obama more than they just plain hate him. Like Bill, they'll love him once he has no legal authority.
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Sep 24, 2014 02:05
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