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Hencoe posted:No, in the shooting phase. The shooting phase the D-Marks come in (using that rule on his opponents turn) and then in his shooting phase. The rule confers the ability to deep strike. If deep strike confers the ability to shoot immediately after then why can't you shoot when you normally deep strike in your movement phase and then immediately after in your shooting phase? Because you can't and that's loving stupid. The rules specifically state everything you're allowed to do, if they don't say you can do something then you can't do it, that's how the entire rule set works. my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 02:35
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Few more shots of Voidraven, Codex cover, and some new Archon model that can barely be seen.   
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Sep 23, 2014 02:41
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ghetto wormhole posted:The rules specifically state everything you're allowed to do, if they don't say you can do something then you can't do it, that's how the entire rule set works. He is literally denying this saying that because it doesnt state that you specifically cant, that you can. That "shooting as normal" apparently means shooting in your opponents phase. I give up.
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Sep 23, 2014 03:52
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Hencoe posted:He is literally denying this saying that because it doesnt state that you specifically cant, that you can. That "shooting as normal" apparently means shooting in your opponents phase. I give up. I had a buddy who interpreted this the same way. Exact same reasoning as this. Luckily we were able to convince him that the rules for deep striking obviously werent written with that particular necron rule in mind. Necrons man, i hate them so much.
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Sep 23, 2014 04:00
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The proper reply to "it doesn't say you can't" is to then do basically anything you want and point out that "it doesn't say you can't." I'll just go ahead and move during your movement phase- it doesn't say I can't. And what the heck, I'll assault during your shooting phase- doesn't say anywhere that I can't. Heck, I'll assault again during my movement phase, since there's no explicit prohibition against that in the rules anywhere that I can see.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:09
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The Impaler posted:Few more shots of Voidraven, Codex cover, and some new Archon model that can barely be seen. Ooh, okay now I am on board. That nose canopy is pretty drat cool.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:10
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Hencoe posted:He is literally denying this saying that because it doesnt state that you specifically cant, that you can. That "shooting as normal" apparently means shooting in your opponents phase. I give up. My medusas don't say they have wrecker, AP1, unlimited range, and ordinance 10, but they totally are supposed to because
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Sep 23, 2014 06:16
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Hencoe posted:He is literally denying this saying that because it doesnt state that you specifically cant, that you can. That "shooting as normal" apparently means shooting in your opponents phase. I give up. Tell him you're going to fingerbang his mum in the Psychic Phase.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:30
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Tell him you're going to fingerbang his mum in the Psychic Phase. Now THAT is a good power.
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Sep 23, 2014 06:33
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Let him roll the dice and ignore the results. He shouldn't be touching anyone's models so he will have to put up with it if he wants to game.
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Sep 23, 2014 07:55
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'A player's army fires in the shooting phase of his turn.'
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Sep 23, 2014 13:03
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:'A player's army fires in the shooting phase of his turn.' 
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Sep 23, 2014 14:15
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I know you're being facetious but that's when you point out that the rules dictate what you're allowed to do, and if it's not in the rules, you're not allowed to it. If he wants to follow this through, break his lovely Deathmarks and say the rules didn't say you couldn't. Necron players are the loving worst.
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Sep 23, 2014 14:21
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If he has a unit that operates outside of the regular understanding of the rules then the burden of proof is on him not you. He needs to prove his bullshit to you. Not the other way around. "I'm sorry, I don't accept that interpretation of the rule. You seem to be making a huge inference and drawing a long bow. Your interpretation is unclear. I need to see further proof from an FAQ before I'm willing to agree to playing that way" Also call on the golden rule of "don't be a dick". Even if, technically you can gain some kind of advantage from an interpretation of the rules it doesn't mean you should take it in a friendly environment. I had a situation where is was playing with my orks and rolled the infiltrating warlord trait. Which allowed me to infiltrate a number of non vehicle units. My initial reaction was great, I'll give infiltrate to my meganobz, they have a battlewagon as a dedicated transport. So I'll infiltrate the battlewagon full of nobz. My friend responded with "It said non vehicle units" And I was all like "aah, but I've not given infiltrate to the battlewagon. I've given it to the squad embarked. And they in turn are allowed to infiltrate inside their dedicated transport" He replied " yeah, sure you're probably technically correct, but don't be a dick and infiltrate a battlewagon" "Fair enough" Cataphract fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 14:29
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:'A player's army fires in the shooting phase of his turn.'
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Sep 23, 2014 14:31
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Why does that bomber carry its ordnance on the skyward side?
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Sep 23, 2014 14:32
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Dang, that Voidraven looks hot. That nose canopy is seriously cool. That Archon looks pretty cool too, from what I can see. After a release with no new models and a few lackluster releases, I'm happy to see some really neat models coming out again for 40k. Friendly Fire posted:If I were buying kits to make an army, I would probably think it was horribly overpriced though, mostly because I can't see myself ever enjoying buying kits that I just don't like to complete an army. NTRabbit posted:Just buy them for Deadzone then
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Sep 23, 2014 15:05
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spacegoat posted:Why does that bomber carry its ordnance on the skyward side? It's a Dark Eldar vehicle, it's more extreme that way.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:15
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Cataphract posted:He replied " yeah, sure you're probably technically correct, but don't be a dick and infiltrate a battlewagon" I'd really like to hear who's interpretation is correct on this, because I tend to side with yours and it's not like battlewagons are hot poo poo kill everything war machines.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:32
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You can infiltrate in the transport. It's 100% clear and explicit.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:40
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CyberLord XP posted:I'd really like to hear who's interpretation is correct on this, because I tend to side with yours and it's not like battlewagons are hot poo poo kill everything war machines. Wagons, no. The Meganobz inside... Well. At least with the Bully Boyz formation, they're pretty loving deadly in my experience.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:43
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CyberLord XP posted:I'd really like to hear who's interpretation is correct on this, because I tend to side with yours and it's not like battlewagons are hot poo poo kill everything war machines. Cataphract is correct, his opponent didn't want to adapt.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:44
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Naramyth posted:Cataphract is correct, his opponent didn't want to adapt. Oh yeah, I was totally correct but there's no point insisting on stuff like that and forcing friends to have a bad time.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:51
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"Ok, so my Vindicator caused 3 wounds on your Thunderwolf cavalry. Remember it's strength ten, so it inflicts Instant Death." "C'mon man. Don't be a dick." (Removes 1 model and puts a wound on the second)
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Sep 23, 2014 15:54
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Also Tau battlesuits can fire during the opponent's shooting phase. See, a multi-tracker says the model can fire an additional weapon each shooting phase. On your turn, that's 1+1. On your opponent's turn, well, you normally can't fire any, but you can fire an additional one! 0+1=1! Unrelated, deciding what to equip my crisis suits with for a 1k list (they're magnetized!). Got three suits and one I'll be using as a Commander rigth now. Is the cyclic ion blaster worth taking? Esser-Z fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 16:22
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spacegoat posted:Why does that bomber carry its ordnance on the skyward side? They're engines.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:38
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Nah, in that example the space wolves guy is being a dick.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:47
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Cataphract posted:Nah, in that example the space wolves guy is being a dick. Until you have an objective measure of what being a dick is, his argument wasn't a strawman. Sure, your friend can ask you not to Infiltrate the Battlewagon... but he can do that with literally any rule i the game, as MSP points out. Whether or not that is appropriate will depend entirely on what the two of you decide; there's people I absolutely would cram the 'Wagon down their throats and there's other people I would feel bad running a Battlewagon at all against.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:21
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AbusePuppy posted:...there's other people I would feel bad running a Battlewagon at all against. Honest question, why would you ever feel bad about running a battlewagon? I feel like they aren't half as scary now that deffrollas are nerfed.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:40
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:They're engines. Yeah, they're the same style intakes as on the razorwing. In one of the pictures, you can see a bit of the ordnance packages hanging below the wings.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:51
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CyberLord XP posted:Honest question, why would you ever feel bad about running a battlewagon? I feel like they aren't half as scary now that deffrollas are nerfed. For very new players who aren't good at the game (which there are a few of in my area), it can be very hard to deal with AV14 with 4HP, and anything inside of one is inevitably pretty dangerous. They're really easy to bring down when you know deployment/cornering tricks and can get your guns into their huge side arcs, but for someone who doesn't understand that kind of thing they can seem pretty invincible, especially in a smaller (1000pts or less) game where there just aren't as many guns on the table. Battlewagons themselves are definitely weaker now, but the cargos they can carry and the speed at which they can deliver them are a lot more threatening.
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Sep 23, 2014 18:30
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I am not crazy for battlewagons. I don't like Boyz so a lot of their transport capacity is wasted for me. 3 wagons full of tankbustas would be a laugh.
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Sep 23, 2014 18:46
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seriously, why in the gently caress did they do what they did to deffrollas, they are loving garbage now
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Sep 23, 2014 18:50
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Looking for some advice. In a couple of days I've got a 1,000 point game against a guy who plays Space Marines and tends to go with a psyker and quite a few vehicles including a flyer and some cheaper troop options. Any recommendations on what chaos to take along to turn his army into a fine paste?
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Sep 23, 2014 18:58
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Is there any justification for using Deffrollas anymore? I'm planning on equipping my 'Wagons with Rams at the very least; is there any way they're worth the extra +5 points to "upgrade" them to Deffrollas anymore?
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Sep 23, 2014 19:00
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Raphus C posted:I am not crazy for battlewagons. I don't like Boyz so a lot of their transport capacity is wasted for me. 3 wagons full of tankbustas would be a laugh. S.J. posted:seriously, why in the gently caress did they do what they did to deffrollas, they are loving garbage now
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Sep 23, 2014 19:18
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Is there any justification for using Deffrollas anymore? I'm planning on equipping my 'Wagons with Rams at the very least; is there any way they're worth the extra +5 points to "upgrade" them to Deffrollas anymore? Nope. Rams are cheap as chips and do the exact same job as Deffrollas now. SRM posted:Maybe toning them down a little bit from the Monolith-munchers they were in 5th was a good idea, but they took them too far. The major problem I see with Deffrollas now is that they do no damage to enemy armor. If they could still do those S10 hit to vehicles, I don't think people would have complained as much since d3 auto-hits is still pretty good for mulching vehicles. But no, it's relegated to Death or Glory, making it functionally useless.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:29
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Slimnoid posted:Nope. Rams are cheap as chips and do the exact same job as Deffrollas now. They have a small effect against armor. The +2 front AV when ramming adds +1 to the strength of the ram and makes the BW effectively impervious to damage from ramming other vehicles.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:41
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SRM posted:The balance pendulum swings really far in either given direction, unfortunately. I didn't think they were overpowered before, but now they're pretty much worthless. Maybe toning them down a little bit from the Monolith-munchers they were in 5th was a good idea, but they took them too far. Honestly it was kind of a rhetorical question  I played Orks for about 10 years until 6th ed hit, Orks have wildly swung between amazing and complete garbage for a variety of reasons.There's a used version of the 4th ed rulebook at a nearby store for like, 5 dollars though. I'm thinking about buying it and just using it + some of the greatest hits updates from 5th and 6th edition to put together a version of 40k I would actually want to play with some friends of mine. While drinking, of course, because Warhammer. PeterWeller posted:They have a small effect against armor. The +2 front AV when ramming adds +1 to the strength of the ram and makes the BW effectively impervious to damage from ramming other vehicles. The Ram already does this, though. The Defrolla does literally nothing special unless your opponent chooses to death or glory. You're paying 5 points to hope to God your opponent is a complete moron.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:46
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AbusePuppy posted:Until you have an objective measure of what being a dick is, his argument wasn't a strawman. Sure, your friend can ask you not to Infiltrate the Battlewagon... but he can do that with literally any rule i the game, as MSP points out. Whether or not that is appropriate will depend entirely on what the two of you decide; there's people I absolutely would cram the 'Wagon down their throats and there's other people I would feel bad running a Battlewagon at all against. On the one hand there was an obscure situation where the rule said "no vehicles" but there was a loophole that could have been exploited to allow vehicles to take advantage. On the other hand there was a player wanting to ignore a reasonably elementary rule of the game because it didn't suit them. As far as I'm concerned the situations aren't really comparable. Hence the strawman. Cataphract fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 19:52
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