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This is definitely a young adult novel. It felt generic to me, with glimmers of Joe's writing style. I feel like he has hamstrung himself by writing in this genre. I found the book okay, maybe a C+ or B- if I had to assign a grade to it. The character's just weren't compelling enough for me in the end. Also I didn't feel like there were very many themes presented in the book. It mostly felt shallow. Also it does something I kind of loathe in fantasy. The premise that the novel is set on Earth, but it is 1000s of years after some nuclear war type event. There are scattered remnants of our civilisation spoken of in the book. Someone might refer to the strange green card, with gold lines on it. Or maybe it is the weird smooth stone that is shaped into different styles. There is only one book with this premise I have enjoyed and that is Obernewtyn. I will still read the next two books in the series, though I am not sure where they will go plot wise.
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Jul 13, 2014 06:27
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Where did it hint at that? I know there was the whole splitting of the gods part, but it still just seemed like a generic fantasy world rather than anything else. The whole book to me feels like something that would be a book in the first law, if that makes sense. Like their version of a fairytale. Gather around younguns, and hear the tale of Prince Yarvi! gently caress, when I heard about the solid rock with metal sticking out I was thinking of something far more fantastic. vvv Fingerless Gloves fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 15:11
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Smellem Sexbad posted:Also it does something I kind of loathe in fantasy. The premise that the novel is set on Earth, but it is 1000s of years after some nuclear war type event. There are scattered remnants of our civilisation spoken of in the book. Someone might refer to the strange green card, with gold lines on it. Or maybe it is the weird smooth stone that is shaped into different styles. There is only one book with this premise I have enjoyed and that is Obernewtyn. Yeah the circuit board and reinforced concrete was pretty obvious. Also the map of the shattered sea clearly shows the Baltic Sea, where skekenhouse is Copenhagen. Other names are also obvious derivatives of cities in Scandinavia, Germany or Russia for example Roskilde, Rostock , Kiev and Leningrad.
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Jul 15, 2014 21:36
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Oddly enough the bookstore chain I work at is not classifying the new book as YA and is selling it for $26 which is bullshit as new teen hardcovers are listed at like $16. The $26 price is on the inside of the jacket so it's not our markup. Thankfully we're allowed to checkout hardcovers for two weeks so that's what I'll be doing.
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Jul 17, 2014 07:32
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I enjoyed Half A King - it's very readable and it gets the obvious, predictable twist out of the way almost immediately so that the more interesting story can take precedence. It's nowhere near as good as Abercrombie's adult books (and noticeably more 'YA' in that regard than something like China Mieville's Railsea, which retained a fair bit of complexity) but it's a good quick read nonetheless. Satisfying ending and I'm sure I'll enjoy the rest of the trilogy too. It's just not another Heroes.
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Jul 17, 2014 09:04
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The strangest thing about Half a King for me was the dialogue. Joe is known for his really natural dialogue but the way the characters talk to each other in this is so phony. Enjoyable nonetheless, didn't see Uthrik coming at all so it's not completely devoid of Joe's tricks.
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Jul 17, 2014 12:57
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I just finished Red Country. Man, I really liked it, and I'm not even a huge fan of Westerns. I actually was way more interested in the Fellowship and Crease scenes than the climactic parts of the story (although I still had to love a climactic wagon chase). And I loved Shy (and am kind of torn between being glad that she gets to exit the narrative being happy and alive and being sad that we'll likely never see her again). See, it is possible for your dark and edgy "gritty" fantasy to have female characters who play a direct role in the story and do not fall neatly into the category of whores(/sex objects), rape victims(/sex objects), or (emphatically not sex objects, probably villainous). Not such a happy ending for Lamb/Logan (is that even a spoiler?) though, although it is an appropriate one. And he did settle down and spend 10+ years as father figure to a bunch of kids, though. So there's that.
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Jul 25, 2014 14:01
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Speaking of Red Country, the postal service somehow managed to ding up my LE copy. I'm equal parts pissed off and impressed, because that thing was packed like a champ.
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Jul 26, 2014 05:09
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Picked up Half A King today at B&N (where it was shelved with the F&SF, not the YA) and just finished it. Solid enough YA story, with all of Joe's tics in place - the Last Door instead of Back To The Mud, the last chapters were mirrors/echoes of the first, people refusing to submit by saying their knees don't bend easily, main character is a cripple who thinks to himself a lot, the last third is plot twist after plot twist (mostly set up fairly), etcetera. No sour spit, but page 102 has someone with a "sick-sour taste" in their mouth, which made me smile. I picked up on about half the plot twists, which is my usual batting average. I figured out the setting as soon as I saw the map, and am I the only who thinks the "elf-metal staff" is a length of rebar? Not mind blowing, but not bad, 4/5 stars, looking forward to the rest of the series. I hope it makes him a lot of money, but the YA shelves are packed with fantasy and SF and horror, so good luck to him. The Ministers with their birds carrying messages and serving individual kings were irritatingly close to GRRM's Maesters, though. Am I going to be picking bits and pieces of ASOIAF out of every fantasy book I'll read for the rest of my life?
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Jul 27, 2014 03:28
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Birds carrying messages are a pretty common Fantasy trope. I think they even featured in medieval European history.
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Jul 27, 2014 05:23
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Genghis Khan also used them.
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Jul 27, 2014 05:34
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GRRM did not invent the carrier pigeon, sorry. They were even being used as late as in WWI and WWII. The maesters' ravens are more of an Odin thing anyway, I thought. They're probably smart enough to carry messages but most likely also smart enough to peck off the little scroll carrier, or just say "ha, gently caress you!" and fly off and never go back to the coop. Ornamented Death posted:Speaking of Red Country, the postal service somehow managed to ding up my LE copy. I'm equal parts pissed off and impressed, because that thing was packed like a champ.
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Jul 27, 2014 22:42
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coyo7e posted:GRRM did not invent the carrier pigeon, sorry. They were even being used as late as in WWI and WWII.
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Jul 27, 2014 23:11
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coyo7e posted:Was the packaging damaged? Some books get dropped off the shelves in the warehouse or kicked around before they make it into the box. I used to work at a Barnes & Noble and we'd get boxes of books with one or two sandwiched between all the rest - essentially impervious to damage - and they'd look like someone'd hit 'em with a claw hammer occasionally. Yeah, the box was a bit dinged up. The thing to keep in mind though is that this was shipped by SubPress, an outfit that ONLY deals with collectors, so they won't send out a book if it's dinged up. In fact, they have a fairly consistent problem with certain eBay sellers that basically just go through their (SubPress's) trash, looking for dinged books that they then sell. All's well, though, I spoke to the guy in charge and they're going to send out a replacement.
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Jul 28, 2014 00:07
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coyo7e posted:GRRM did not invent the carrier pigeon, sorry. They were even being used as late as in WWI and WWII. The ________ are a neutral order of scholars/healers/advisors who serve the rulers of the land and send messages by bird. "Ministers" fills in that blank just as well as "Maesters" does.
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Jul 28, 2014 02:42
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Khizan posted:The ________ are a neutral order of scholars/healers/advisors who serve the rulers of the land and send messages by bird. The way pigeons were used is fairly different than ravens. The ravens in GRRM are wildly more versatile than real world pigeons as they seem to be able to just fly wherever as opposed to one specific place or back and forth from two specific places. I don't know about other historical carrier birds, but Abercrombie's have more in common with GRRM than carrier pigeons.
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Jul 28, 2014 08:20
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Karnegal posted:The way pigeons were used is fairly different than ravens. The ravens in GRRM are wildly more versatile than real world pigeons as they seem to be able to just fly wherever as opposed to one specific place or back and forth from two specific places. I don't know about other historical carrier birds, but Abercrombie's have more in common with GRRM than carrier pigeons. I feel like such a nerd, but I just re-read Sam's part in the Other attack on the Fist of Men, last night, and he is pretty specific about having separate cages for ravens trained to fly to different Watch castles. So apparently maesters have a fuckton of birds for the major holds around Westeros.
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Jul 28, 2014 16:38
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FMguru posted:Unless this is a trope that's shown up in a bunch of earlier fantasy novels, sorry?
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Jul 28, 2014 19:46
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coyo7e posted:Yes. Your initial criticism came across a bit like a kid complaining about Anne Rice just feeling like a Tru Blood or Twilight rip-off (and being unaware of who Bram stoker was, or the lore he sourced), sorry.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:53
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Well, at least you're that self-aware. Apology accepted.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:46
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ganthony posted:I feel like such a nerd, but I just re-read Sam's part in the Other attack on the Fist of Men, last night, and he is pretty specific about having separate cages for ravens trained to fly to different Watch castles. So apparently maesters have a fuckton of birds for the major holds around Westeros. Interesting; I didn't recall that. I guess everyone just has a fuckload of ravens. Because, from what I recall, Stannis sends out "Jof's parents are related" bird-mails to everyone of even remote significance in the seven kingdoms.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:12
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I assumed that there was some networking involved. Since it isn't practical to keep birds around for every possible destination, a message to a castle that you don't have a bird for would have to be routed through someplace that you do have a bird for. You keep birds for the destinations that you correspond with frequently and for the destinations where you need to send TOP SECRET MESSAGES. Anything else gets sent to one one of those places first, then routed along to its final destination. Stannis's "Jof's parents are related" messages may have arrived at their final destinations as "FWD:FWD:FWD: This queen's love life is shocking, you will never believe what happens next!". withak fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 22:30
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Forward this to 10 Knights and the iron bank will give u an interest free loan
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Jul 28, 2014 22:52
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withak posted:I assumed that there was some networking involved. Since it isn't practical to keep birds around for every possible destination, a message to a castle that you don't have a bird for would have to be routed through someplace that you do have a bird for. You keep birds for the destinations that you correspond with frequently and for the destinations where you need to send TOP SECRET MESSAGES. Anything else gets sent to one one of those places first, then routed along to its final destination. Hell, messenger pigeons used to be used by Ghenghis Khan, the Egyptian army, and even were used in Rome to deliver messages about the winners of chariot races, to nobility who placed bets. Athens even used them to deliver news about the results of the Olympics.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:40
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We are talking ravens here though.
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Jul 29, 2014 19:25
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withak posted:We are talking ravens here though.
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Jul 30, 2014 01:30
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coyo7e posted:Were there messenger ravens in his YA stuff? I haven't read them yet. Yes, which is how this conversation got started  .
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Jul 30, 2014 03:14
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Ahh okay, that makes more sense. Ravens being divine messengers is still a pretty common trope in mythology though, and I'd consider that to be where the cliche came from rather than a barely twenty year-old series. A lot of magical beings considered the bearers of bad tidings/luck/deals often would show up shapechanged into ravens, and Greek and Norse myth certainly had them as bringers of tidings, and then there's the old "stormcrow" term, which literally means a bringer of (bad) news. edit: also Roac, the great raven, was totally a bearer of tidings about Smaug's demise in LOTR. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 04:07
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Street Soldier posted:The strangest thing about Half a King for me was the dialogue. Joe is known for his really natural dialogue but the way the characters talk to each other in this is so phony. Enjoyable nonetheless, didn't see Uthrik coming at all so it's not completely devoid of Joe's tricks. Yup, I think I might be a big idiot but I did not expect the Nothing surprise. Personally, I enjoyed the book but I agree with everyone's criticism. I had no idea this was a YA novel until I read this thread but it does explain the... lack of something throughout the novel which I just couldn't put my finger on.
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Aug 5, 2014 23:08
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Liked it. A solid YA book. A bit more grit and bleakness then YA books, but that's to be expected.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:47
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I love working at a bookstore when someone comes in and wants something that is like Game of Thrones and I can smile really big and hand them The First Law.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:41
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Ok, so, I just finished devouring The First Law. I think I read the whole thing in the last week, and I'm not a fast reader. I have to say that I'm soooo loving frustrated by the ending; it's not just that it ended so grimdark, but that it was so arbitrary. So much that happened to the characters over the course of the trilogy is overwritten for no reason down the stretch. Why did Bayaz even bother teaching Jezal about being a king if he was just intending him to be a puppet all along? Surely Jezal as he was in the beginning would make a better stooge? Why the talk about the power of the people, given how little regard Bayaz shows the people later on? Obviously, Bayaz is not all that he appears at the start, but his heel turn in the political arena felt too forced to me. Why show Jezal being a good king just to tear it away? That's just unsatisfying. Why kill West? That's just spiteful, shoehorned in for no reason other than to give him an unhappy ending. Why does Logan go back to his old style of dealing with people? He loses all his development way too fast. And other stuff but it's late and I need to wake up in 5 hours so I'll leave it there. Basically what I'm saying is gently caress Bayaz, I really liked this series and now I doubt I ever recommend it to anyone.
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Sep 23, 2014 07:06
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I think he teaches Jezal all that so Jezal will act as a good king towards the people. Bayaz knows he needs to keep the people believing in their ruler, and he wants to create good rulers, but have subtle control over all the major decisions in the background. The first king he trained went down in history as a legend, and he wants to repeat that, while guiding the Union from the shadows.
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Sep 23, 2014 23:48
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Ccs posted:I think he teaches Jezal all that so Jezal will act as a good king towards the people. Bayaz knows he needs to keep the people believing in their ruler, and he wants to create good rulers, but have subtle control over all the major decisions in the background. The first king he trained went down in history as a legend, and he wants to repeat that, while guiding the Union from the shadows. Yeah Jezal has an important role to play. Bayaz didn't teach him to think strategically and plan the best course of action for the kingdom(the actual ruler's most important function), he taught him how to look like a good king, which is all he needed him to do.
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Sep 24, 2014 00:11
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Also, I don't think we ever get to hear a full Bayaz lecture to Jezal. But, he isn't really teaching him to be a "good" king. He's teaching him to manipulate the underclass while retaining all the power. I think I remember one line that was along the lines of giving the people something minor to cover up for doing something big that they wouldn't like. He talks about how to manipulate the power of the people and his philosophy on how to keep it in check. Some of those lines where he is teaching Jezal were my first indicators that Bayaz is a douche.
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Sep 24, 2014 00:35
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Silynt posted:Why does Logan go back to his old style of dealing with people? He loses all his development way too fast. He never left his old style of dealing with people. It's been a while since I read First Law, but I'm pretty sure he was the same violent maniac the whole way through. The only substantial thing he really did to be a better person was to leave the North for a while, which meant that he wasn't involved in any violent feuds. This made it seem like he had changed, even though he kept on killing people (and Shanka/s). BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Sep 24, 2014 |
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Sep 24, 2014 12:31
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In addition to what Bravest said above, the journey for the seed also set up everything Logen needed for a personal transformation. That transformation, however, never happened, as we can see when Logen, who learned there could be life away from violence, chooses to go back to the North rather than doing literally anything else. I felt like the entire point to Logen's arc in the trilogy was to show that change was difficult (and really, how much does a person change over the course of what, a year?) and that he was given a final chance to make a different decision at the very end of Last Argument of Kings. He almost certainly makes a change at the very end (hence the chapter title The Beginning), but at that point the story Abercrombie wanted to tell was over. West had to die because despite being a likeable character he was a regicide, beat his sister regularly, and was all around not a good person. By the end of the trilogy, Bayaz was exactly what he was shown to be in his first encounter with Logen: a butcher, covered in blood.
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Sep 24, 2014 14:17
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Xenix posted:In addition to what Bravest said above, the journey for the seed also set up everything Logen needed for a personal transformation. That transformation, however, never happened, as we can see when Logen, who learned there could be life away from violence, chooses to go back to the North rather than doing literally anything else. I felt like the entire point to Logen's arc in the trilogy was to show that change was difficult (and really, how much does a person change over the course of what, a year?) and that he was given a final chance to make a different decision at the very end of Last Argument of Kings. He almost certainly makes a change at the very end (hence the chapter title The Beginning), but at that point the story Abercrombie wanted to tell was over. I think it was more Ferro taking off that prompted him to slide back. It's a pretty classic outcome, somebody's doing well, but until that becomes a habit, one little thing can undo a lot of work. That fragility I think was the main thing Abercombie wanted to illustrate. As for West, I completely disagree that he was a bad person. The regicide was more than justified and if not entirely an accident, certainly not premeditated. He punched his sister out once, not regularly. What appeared in the story was the first time, and then he avoided her out of guilt, shame, and fear that he'd do it again until he died. In every other instance, he was fair in all his dealings, thoughtful to people under his command or social status and on multiple occasions stood up for them when he had absolutely nothing to gain from doing so. He was a mostly-selfless and kind person with clinically significant anger issues. I'm not saying that beating his sister is in any way justifiable, but it's literally the only way he wasn't a classic hero in a hosed-up world. Bayaz, yeah, everybody should have seen that coming.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:51
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Silynt posted:Why kill West? That's just spiteful, shoehorned in for no reason other than to give him an unhappy ending. quote:Why does Logan go back to his old style of dealing with people? He loses all his development way too fast. He does come back as a supporting character in a later book (BSC, iirc?), which provides a lot of closure imho.
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Sep 26, 2014 02:25
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Actually, he comes back in Red Country.
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Sep 26, 2014 03:28
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