Rick and Morty: AND AWAAAAAAAAAAY WE GO!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Rick and Morty: AND AWAAAAAAAAAAY WE GO!

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

AxeManiac posted:

At gun point?

But it is clear in his comments on reddit, that he is more upset about the way the union handle it, not that they didn't want to pay them fairly and treat them well. But knowing the industry and adult swim, I'm surprised those cheapskates pay for anything and it doesn't help to bawk about it online.

Then why make a shell corporation to avoid paying proper benefits?

# ? Sep 17, 2014 17:25

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 07:24

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

socialsecurity posted:

Then why make a shell corporation to avoid paying proper benefits?

Animation companies making shell companies for their individual shows is a fairly common practice. It's an especially common practice in Japan.

# ? Sep 17, 2014 18:24

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

Yeah but is it a practice that benefits anyone but the show's owners. As in, is it something done to the detriment of the people actually creating the show. Everything I've heard about working in animation in Japan makes it sound like you're treated like complete poo poo so "everyone does it" isn't a good reason.

# ? Sep 17, 2014 18:44

grilldos: Mar 27, 2004; BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION; Grimey Drawer

Legally speaking, you negate the benefits of shell companies if you don't actually do everything separately. It means entirely different bank accounts, tax ID number, contracts with contractors/real estate owners, etc. If you don't keep everything separate, then in the eyes of the law (courts, IRS, etc.), the companies fall under the same ownership entity, and suing one includes the other. They can get away with having the two LLCs share a space by signing the Rick & Morty LLC up under a separate lease or sub-lease.

# ? Sep 17, 2014 18:51

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

If the soviets had won rick and morty would be full sail ahead sans drama. :smith:

# ? Sep 17, 2014 20:51

Sakarja: Oct 19, 2003; "Our masters have not heard the people's voice for generations and it is much, much louder than they care to remember."

Capitalism is the problem. Anarchism is the answer. Join an anarchist union today!

I hope this means we can look forward to Rick going Galt in season 3.

hemophilia posted:

If the soviets had won rick and morty would be full sail ahead sans drama.

Not to disparage Soviet methods for dealing with uppity workers, but wouldn't it have been easier to just pay them and offer them a health plan?

# ? Sep 17, 2014 22:24

Goredema: Oct 16, 2013; RUIN EVERYTHING; Fun Shoe

Sakarja posted:

Not to disparage Soviet methods for dealing with uppity workers, but wouldn't it have been easier to just pay them and offer them a health plan?

In the U.S., forming a union is seen as an attempt to destroy your employer's company, and by extension, to destroy America.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 00:20

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

JT Jag posted:

Animation companies making shell companies for their individual shows is a fairly common practice. It's an especially common practice in Japan.

Japan a place notorious for mistreating it's animators is not a good example to be using.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 00:28

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

If it surprises you that the main writer for Rick, an sociopath atheist libertarian who literally constantly goes off on political rants, exclusively gets the last word and is constantly portrayed as "too correct for his own good" has less then rosy feelings for labour politics, I don't know what to tell you. Rick literally elects to burn his business to the ground instead of filing employer paperwork.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 00:32

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

CoolCab posted:

If it surprises you that the main writer for Rick, an sociopath atheist libertarian who literally constantly goes off on political rants, exclusively gets the last word and is constantly portrayed as "too correct for his own good" has less then rosy feelings for labour politics, I don't know what to tell you. Rick literally elects to burn his business to the ground instead of filing employer paperwork.

Roiland may be a prick, but Rick hates paperwork because it's boring, not because he's trying to screw his employees.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 00:33

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

prefect posted:

Roiland may be a prick, but Rick hates paperwork because it's boring, not because he's trying to screw his employees.

No, he doesn't need to screw his employees, that would be assigning too much autonomy to them. He's completely apathetic to literally all other human beings, and frequently murders them on a whim.

He's an incredibly brilliant self made genius and uses that intelligence to invent technology that could effortlessly transform the world into a utopia. However, doing so would involve cooperation with a government, something he feels is morally unacceptable, so instead he retreats from society to live a life of rational self interest and enjoy the sweat of his brow. It's not subtle.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 00:48

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Typical?

# ? Sep 18, 2014 00:57

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

socialsecurity posted:

Japan a place notorious for mistreating it's animators is not a good example to be using.

Japan has public health insurance and medical price controls, so not giving your employees insurance isn't that big a deal.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 01:05

null_user01013: Nov 13, 2000; Drink up comrades

CelticPredator posted:

Typical?

Loose lips sink ships, I doubt Typical will respond and quite honestly, shouldn't. A solid job, even under the oppressive boot of lemongrab, shouldn't be thrown away to make an internet comment.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 01:30

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

He already responded on that cartoon site. Pretty much said the same thing as everyone else did.

It sounds like Justin was kept in the dark, and got pissed when poo poo started to go down. But I'm just guessing. I wasn't there.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 01:32

...of SCIENCE!: Apr 26, 2008; by Fluffdaddy

Morty yeeahhahhah gotta use a shell corporation Morty, like , it's a shell, in space in time, it's, it's gonna save you an me a shitload of money, an, ehh, yehaah, that's what we're going to do gently caress THE UNION -belllch-

# ? Sep 18, 2014 01:54

null_user01013: Nov 13, 2000; Drink up comrades

Dan and Justin: Space Time Exploits for a Union Free Workplace

"I can't know about a company I made in the future, think about it."

# ? Sep 18, 2014 01:56

Sakarja: Oct 19, 2003; "Our masters have not heard the people's voice for generations and it is much, much louder than they care to remember."

Capitalism is the problem. Anarchism is the answer. Join an anarchist union today!

prefect posted:

Roiland may be a prick, but Rick hates paperwork because it's boring, not because he's trying to screw his employees.

I don't know, Rick does seem to have a lot in common with the Randian overman. He's a genius scientist who can invent things at a moments notice that drive his enemies to despair and suicide attempts; he doesn't even really need employees, but he uses people ruthlessly when it suits his purposes; he has no respect for authority or social convention and openly displays his contempt for those he considers to be inferior; when things don't go his way he either petulantly takes his ball and goes home, or engages in acts of destrucive, spiteful revenge. All that's missing is a rape or two.

Goredema posted:

In the U.S., forming a union is seen as an attempt to destroy your employer's company, and by extension, to destroy America.

Well, it was sort of the same in the good old USSR, except there was no need for the "by extension" part of it.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 08:45

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Sakarja posted:

Well, it was sort of the same in the good old USSR, except there was no need for the "by extension" part of it.

What are you talking about? Soviet workers didn't need to form a union, because all organisations were state-owned and unionised by default.

# ? Sep 18, 2014 10:46

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Sakarja posted:

I don't know, Rick does seem to have a lot in common with the Randian overman. He's a genius scientist who can invent things at a moments notice that drive his enemies to despair and suicide attempts; he doesn't even really need employees, but he uses people ruthlessly when it suits his purposes; he has no respect for authority or social convention and openly displays his contempt for those he considers to be inferior; when things don't go his way he either petulantly takes his ball and goes home, or engages in acts of destrucive, spiteful revenge. All that's missing is a rape or two.

Then again he isn't some kind of faultless, (portrayed as) morally-perfect superman.
Which is kind of the Galt-esque ideal.

Or maybe I don't want this show ruined for me since every time Rick speaks I'll feel like Im getting the full three hour Galt vocal vomit treatment.

Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Sep 18, 2014

# ? Sep 18, 2014 11:05

Sakarja: Oct 19, 2003; "Our masters have not heard the people's voice for generations and it is much, much louder than they care to remember."

Capitalism is the problem. Anarchism is the answer. Join an anarchist union today!

Paladinus posted:

What are you talking about? Soviet workers didn't need to form a union, because all organisations were state-owned and unionised by default.

This is OT as hell and I apologize for derailing the thread. That said, let's see if we can't clear this up.

While all organisations were indeed state-owned and unionised, it doesn't automatically follow that the workers didn't need to form unions. The official unions were run by and in the interests of the same State that also employed the workers. The problem this poses for the worker should be obvious. The function of the unions in this arrangement is to make sure that the needs of the State are met, not to make trouble for managers and planners. The unions achieved this by disciplining and exhorting the workers. Independent unions (acting directly in the interests of their members) or labor action simply were not tolerated.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Then again he isn't some kind of faultless, (portrayed as) morally-perfect superman.
Which is kind of the Galt-esque ideal.

Or maybe I don't want this show ruined for me since every time Rick speaks I feel like Im getting the full three hour Galt vocal vomit treatment.

Not a fan of Harmontown, then?

# ? Sep 18, 2014 11:48

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

They're just robots, Morty.

# ? Sep 19, 2014 04:00

Avasculous: Aug 30, 2008

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Then again he isn't some kind of faultless, (portrayed as) morally-perfect superman.
Which is kind of the Galt-esque ideal.

We also see in the last few episodes that he's pretty profoundly unhappy and mostly pretends at total independence and disdain towards others to protect himself.

# ? Sep 20, 2014 17:26

Typical: Mar 19, 2007

AxeManiac posted:

At gun point?

HAhah No it wasn't at gun point. I don't want to say too much about this issue because it was a fairly heated subject. But let me lay some things to rest.

Rick and Morty LLC is not a shell company created to avoid giving us benefits. It�s just another company designed to handle the animation. mostly for production reasons that I can't go into.

Justin and Dan, care about the artists very much and only want the best for them. They are always super nice to us. and they pay us really well as it is. We just didn't get benefits. Employment is SUPER rocky in animation. We have to find new jobs every 6 months because shows don't last very long. It's very hard to maintain health coverage, much less plan for retirement. The union works with studios to create a safe environment for us. Because the way the Shows are run these days, the artists are highly disposable.

The union just happened to approach Rick and Morty in a very abrupt way and convinced them to increase the price of the show very, very abruptly. And this caused a lot of drama. I suppose it would be like trying to convert to the metric system over a weekend. Adult swim doesn't really like to shell out that kind of benefits willy nilly. But either way it happened and it was very difficult for the negotiating parties involved.

That said we went union fairly quickly and it wasn't really an issue at all. Until Cartoon brew decided to post some really outsider information and speculation on it. Those guys are honestly a complete pile of sensationalist bullshit. And have no idea how studios are run. they just create controversial click bait for their reader base which is mainly unemployed social justice warrior artists types who fancy themselves as being discriminated on, and want to "Be paid fairly". Amid Amidi is a non-artist who loves the idea that artists enjoy being around him and thrives on the notion that he�s somehow part of the industry. I really wanted to post a comment that personally attacked him. But I refrained from doing so.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 05:56

Golden Bee: Dec 24, 2009; I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

CoolCab posted:

If it surprises you that the main writer for Rick, an sociopath atheist libertarian who literally constantly goes off on political rants, exclusively gets the last word and is constantly portrayed as "too correct for his own good"...

No, Maybe, Maybe, Definitely, Not exclusively, Not really.

That writer ran Community for 5 4 seasons and wouldn't deny he's combative, but I think he's worked enough with unions that he would meet their demands willingly and speedily.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 00:26

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

Hey Typical, some of the images in your first post are dead. What were they and where can I find them?

Typical posted:

Me and my Goon girlfriend animated and designed on it. we also lost a lot of sleep over it. But I wont go into that.

Neat!

# ? Sep 22, 2014 00:44

Slime: Jan 3, 2007

Golden Bee posted:

No, Maybe, Maybe, Definitely, Not exclusively, Not really.

That writer ran Community for 5 4 seasons and wouldn't deny he's combative, but I think he's worked enough with unions that he would meet their demands willingly and speedily.

Hahahahaha you talk as though Dan Harmon can learn a lesson.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 00:46

Typical: Mar 19, 2007

KoRMaK posted:

Hey Typical, some of the images in your first post are dead. What were they and where can I find them?

Neat!

I took it down as it probably violated the NDA I signed with the studio in some way.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 04:31

null_user01013: Nov 13, 2000; Drink up comrades

Typical posted:

Employment is SUPER rocky in animation. We have to find new jobs every 6 months because shows don't last very long. It's very hard to maintain health coverage, much less plan for retirement. The union works with studios to create a safe environment for us. Because the way the Shows are run these days, the artists are highly disposable.

I really hate that this is acceptable to people. I saw a lot of it in the game industry, from testers to developers, people are treated as meat puppets with an unyielding wave of new recruits who will do anything to land their "dream job". When you can ship one of the largest games in history, then face massive lay offs, there is something wrong with the industry as a whole. So I full support and encourage people to stand up for their rights and I'm glad you guys are getting this resolved and can get back to work making the best cartoon on TV.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 08:11

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

AxeManiac posted:

I really hate that this is acceptable to people. I saw a lot of it in the game industry, from testers to developers, people are treated as meat puppets with an unyielding wave of new recruits who will do anything to land their "dream job". When you can ship one of the largest games in history, then face massive lay offs, there is something wrong with the industry as a whole. So I full support and encourage people to stand up for their rights and I'm glad you guys are getting this resolved and can get back to work making the best cartoon on TV.

The part that bothers me is that people in charge will say "well, that's just the way it's done", as if that makes it all okay. :rant: