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OddObserver posted:Invaded Ukraine a number of times (though the last instance probably worked out better for West Ukrainians, as the alternative would have been USSR). How far back are we going anyway? Well Ukraine/Russia also invaded Poland a number of times, hence the arch-nemesis thing.
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Sep 24, 2014 21:48
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Ofaloaf posted:I've yet to hear anyone speak ill of Andorra. I haven't heard anyone say anything good about Andorra either.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:03
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The Poles held a pogrom against the surviving Jews the moment they go rid of the nazis, so gently caress them too.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The Czechs have never done anything bad. You forget the Hussite wagon-rampages in Germany, sir.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:09
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The Basques maybe? If you're willing to forgive the terrorism thing? It was against fascists
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Sep 24, 2014 22:22
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icantfindaname posted:Well Ukraine/Russia also invaded Poland a number of times, hence the arch-nemesis thing. Kulkasha posted:You forget the Hussite wagon-rampages in Germany, sir.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Slavs treating Germans badly after WW2 is a freebie. They were treating them like poo poo in a lot of ways before WW2. e.g. Prague confiscated German-owned large estates and distributed them to Czechs, attempted to suppress the German language, granted relief funds to Czechs and not to Germans during the Great Depression, etc. These efforts to suppress national feeling backfired and probably influenced the German population joining Nazi-affiliated parties in mass numbers after 1933. There's a tendency to forget about it because nobody paid a lot of attention at the time, and later on Czechoslovakia was seen more as a Democratic victim of fascism and Franco-British betrayal, but the first republic had a bad minority policy and that made a real contribution to its collapse. It was after WW2 that they just expelled all their Germans. icantfindaname posted:I like the Poles. Their national identity seems held together by hatred of their arch-nemesis Russia, and considering Russia is pretty lovely that's fine by me. I guess they're sort of bad on abortion issues? I can't think of much else. Anti-semitism was already mentioned, but speaking of Czechoslovakia the Polish government took advantage of the Munich Agreement to jump in and seize a small chunk for themselves. I guess you gotta make hay while the sun shines, even if it means colluding with the same Nazis who are chomping at the bit to invade you as well.
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Sep 24, 2014 22:51
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EvanSchenck posted:They were treating them like poo poo in a lot of ways before WW2. e.g. Prague confiscated German-owned large estates and distributed them to Czechs, attempted to suppress the German language, granted relief funds to Czechs and not to Germans during the Great Depression, etc. These efforts to suppress national feeling backfired and probably influenced the German population joining Nazi-affiliated parties in mass numbers after 1933. There's a tendency to forget about it because nobody paid a lot of attention at the time, and later on Czechoslovakia was seen more as a Democratic victim of fascism and Franco-British betrayal, but the first republic had a bad minority policy and that made a real contribution to its collapse. EvanSchenck posted:Anti-semitism was already mentioned, but speaking of Czechoslovakia the Polish government took advantage of the Munich Agreement to jump in and seize a small chunk for themselves. I guess you gotta make hay while the sun shines, even if it means colluding with the same Nazis who are chomping at the bit to invade you as well.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:07
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icantfindaname posted:The Basques maybe? If you're willing to forgive the terrorism thing? It was against fascists  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ETA_attacks In case you consider all victims prior to 1978 as "fascists", just read onwards then.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:09
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Did Austria-Hungary do much awful stuff other than suppress nationalities as political units?
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Sep 24, 2014 23:11
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DrSunshine posted:What is a "good" country, then? Is there a single country in the world that passes the D&D test for Goodness? As your question stands now, the only country that would fit Debate and Discussion's standards is probably the Most Serene Republic of San Marino. It carried out its last execution in 1468 and abolished the death penalty in 1848. Since establishment, it has only ever used its military in self-defense. Although a tax haven, San Marino has one of the most transparent banking systems among the microstates. The rapid turnover rate for leaders makes political corruption almost non-existent. At worst, you could criticize it for having no formal asylum policy. If you want to discuss whether any bigger countries can be "good," you will need to define your question a little better. Are we talking good in context of citizens, the world community, the environment? Domestic? International? Macro-level? Micro? Is good defined in relation to other states? Back to maps: Here's a cartogram of the world. Let's all laugh at Russia. 
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Sep 24, 2014 23:13
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Everybody likes a comeback story, so let's go with Germany or Japan.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:13
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Nessus posted:Did Austria-Hungary do much awful stuff other than suppress nationalities as political units?
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Sep 24, 2014 23:13
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Why does Japan seem bigger than America on that population map?
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Sep 24, 2014 23:16
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Russia looks like a boomerang or bow or something on that map.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:31
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Amused to Death posted:Why does Japan seem bigger than America on that population map? Optical illusion?  If you count the squares it's definitely significantly smaller than the US.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:33
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Amused to Death posted:Why does Japan seem bigger than America on that population map? I guess because the population density makes Japan look bigger than it actually is? It's not like the US is a particularly crowded country.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:36
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Australia looks like one of the aliens from Space Invaders. New Zealand looks like the squiggly things they dropped. There should be a new version where a guy in a boat has to avoid a never ending onslaught of tiny angry Australias.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:47
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Phlegmish posted:The throne was inherited by João O Retardado, who had zero points in every leadership category. Thanks for my new Steam display name.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:55
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Something I've always wondered. Just what is it about East Asia that made it so populous? What in history made it so full of people compared to the rest of the world?
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Sep 25, 2014 00:25
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Ethiser posted:Something I've always wondered. Just what is it about East Asia that made it so populous? What in history made it so full of people compared to the rest of the world? 
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Sep 25, 2014 00:28
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Ethiser posted:Something I've always wondered. Just what is it about East Asia that made it so populous? What in history made it so full of people compared to the rest of the world? No black death would be my guess.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:38
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Ethiser posted:Something I've always wondered. Just what is it about East Asia that made it so populous? What in history made it so full of people compared to the rest of the world? Extremely efficient agriculture based on rice cultivation and a lack of prosperity until long after the first industrial revolution.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:46
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Ethiser posted:Something I've always wondered. Just what is it about East Asia that made it so populous? What in history made it so full of people compared to the rest of the world? Rice is a big part of it, since it yields more in terms of calories per acre than other staple grains, plus it's really labor intensive to grow. Premodern substance rice agriculture requires more people in a smaller area, and it supports more people using less land.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:47
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Nepal is surprisingly big on that map.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:48
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Ethiser posted:Something I've always wondered. Just what is it about East Asia that made it so populous? What in history made it so full of people compared to the rest of the world? Probably the amount and quality of arable land too. Most of Europe is comparatively lovely land, whereas growing rice near the Yangtze or Indus is pretty much free food, minus the heavy manual labor needed to collect it. Well, and engineering to prevent everything from flooding all the time. But yeah. Peanut President posted:No black death would be my guess. China/India had plagues too, that wasn't unique to Europe icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 00:56
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Peanut President posted:No black death would be my guess. The plague was, as a general rule, equivalently lethal throughout the Old World except in very isolated cases.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:57
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Hasn't Europe had a lot more wars, and more brutal to the civilian population? e: a related chart: 
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Sep 25, 2014 01:14
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If I recall correctly, the 1800s in China saw (in addition to civil wars which killed tens of millions) severe ecological disasters in the Huang He valley.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:19
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Konstantin posted:Rice is a big part of it, since it yields more in terms of calories per acre than other staple grains, plus it's really labor intensive to grow. Premodern substance rice agriculture requires more people in a smaller area, and it supports more people using less land. The greater number of people supportable on rice compared to wheat is the explanation I've always seen for this, yeah.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:35
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Asia is the largest landmass in the temperate zone, nerds. East Asia is the largest landmass's largest area of workable soil. Steppe/grassland was not workable until the advent of the steel plow in the industrial revolution.* Light green is temperate forest, dark green is subtropical forest, purple is Mediterranean. Yellow is savannah, now major breadbasket areas but before the 19th century not suitable for agriculture. Bam. East Asia supports the largest population on pre-industrial arable land. Throw in India and the disparity in temperate-zone workable soil compared to every other continent isn't just noticeable, it's enormous. Consider yourselves cartographized. *The grass in grassland biomes creates a root system several meters thick. The soil in the American Midwest or the Eurasian Steppe is excellent but full of thick, fibrous vegetable matter that was impossible to plow up before steel plows. Wooden and cast iron plows will break before cutting a furrow through old-growth grassland sod. Irrigation of crops is also a serious problem for the intensive grassland agriculture you see in the American Midwest. Cereal grasses are not adapted to the relatively arid climate like native grasses and extensive irrigation is necessary. The last 100 years of industrialized agriculture in both the American and Eurasian steppe country has depleted natural groundwater and isn't sustainable over the next 100-200 years in its current form. The Aral Sea is the most striking example of the Eurasian Steppe's inability to support intensive agriculture over the long term. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 02:15
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Note: During the last five years India has grown by ~80 squares. Note2: During the last 10 years Africa has grown by ~230 squares (more than the population of Brazil).
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Sep 25, 2014 02:21
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Those dark green areas in China support three harvests per year in some places. It really is just that East Asia had the most arable land in the temperate crop-growing band until the industrial revolution made the American and Eurasian grasslands available for agriculture.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:36
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Arglebargle III posted:Irrigation of crops is also a serious problem for the intensive grassland agriculture you see in the American Midwest. Cereal grasses are not adapted to the relatively arid climate like native grasses and extensive irrigation is necessary. The last 100 years of industrialized agriculture in both the American and Eurasian steppe country has depleted natural groundwater and isn't sustainable over the next 100-200 years in its current form. The Aral Sea is the most striking example of the Eurasian Steppe's inability to support intensive agriculture over the long term. I thought the Aral Sea depletion was mostly to grow cotton in what amounts to the desert? Like we're not talking about the equivalent of growing wheat in Nebraska but growing a water intensive crop in a region with literally no water around. The Southwest has water problems but that's more because of cities like Phoenix and LA using as much as they possibly can
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Sep 25, 2014 02:40
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icantfindaname posted:I thought the Aral Sea depletion was mostly to grow cotton in what amounts to the desert? Like we're not talking about the equivalent of growing wheat in Nebraska but growing a water intensive crop in a region with literally no water around. The Southwest has water problems but that's more because of cities like Phoenix and LA using as much as they possibly can Actually, guess what crop's gotten grown a lot in Arizona and California? The big cities of the southwest are pretty much blips next to the water use involved in turning the desert into farmland.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:59
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Kulkasha posted:Haha, joke's on you, bubonic plague killed off one-third to one-half of the population in Eastern Asia and directly influenced the fall of the mighty mongol Yuan Dynasty in China. Wow I always thought the main part of it was isolated to europe.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:22
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Killer robot posted:Actually, guess what crop's gotten grown a lot in Arizona and California? Last I checked a ton of the crops grown in California are not things that should be grown in that environment and are huge wastes of water. It is basically a case against water subsidies for agriculture.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:43
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Golbez posted:Surprised no representation from Northern Ireland on there. Sinn Fein are members of the Left caucus, whereas the SDLP are PES members (i.e. social democrats). Jaramin posted:
Hey, a map I coloured! Most councils were 53±5%, so there was no point in discrete colouring.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:58
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Arglebargle III posted:Consider yourselves cartographized. I smell MTV2's next hit show.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:04
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Yeah, it really tripped me out because I've spent huge amounts of time at PHX. Before I went there, I assumed they imported pretty much all of their food because it is a loving desert. But no, because capitalism demands maximum utilization of the cheapest resource "maximum efficiency", it's a loving agricultural wonderland. Sure, importing water is expensive, but sunlight is free so some actuarial analyst figured out that depleting water reserves is cheaper than gaining access to more free sunlight.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:27
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