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Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

blarzgh posted:

Can't threaten criminal charges to gain an advantage in a civil matter

In Texas we can. It just can't be *solely* for advantage in a civil matter.

Texas is awesome.

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Folly
May 26, 2010

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

The trick to the patent bar isn't knowing any specifics about patent law, it's knowing what chapter of the MPEP that it's covered in.

The patent bar is open book with an electronic, searchable copy of the MPEP. Only problem is that you can only search in one chapter at a time. The questions are multiple choice. If you know what chapter is relevant to the question, you can pretty much identify the important keyword in each of the multiple choice answers, search the MPEP for it, and if it comes up (or doesn't come up in the "which of these things doesn't belong" questions), you know what to put down.

That's kinda comforting.

So, why the hell does an open book, searchable, multiple-choice exam have a 50% pass rate?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Roger_Mudd posted:

In Texas we can. It just can't be *solely* for advantage in a civil matter.

Texas is awesome.

Texas is awesome.

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

Folly posted:

That's kinda comforting.

So, why the hell does an open book, searchable, multiple-choice exam have a 50% pass rate?

Lot of people who don't pay attention to very precise questions about minutiae.

Deceptive Thinker
Oct 5, 2005

I'll rip out your optics!

Kalman posted:

Lot of people who don't pay attention to very precise questions about minutiae.

This
The questions are asinine and usually have 2 "almost right" answers and one "actually right" one
(This is purely from my experience with practice exams - I haven't taken the real thing yet)
When I look at what I get wrong and why - it's basically because the test makers purposely put in a question they want you to get wrong

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

blarzgh posted:

Can't threaten criminal charges to gain an advantage in a civil matter, holmes.

I'm surprised the bitch isn't in jail after doing that in open court, though.

She was being questioned over committing bankruptcy fraud, and her lie was in furtherance of said fraud. Judge basically frowned and that was it.

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

The trick to the patent bar isn't knowing any specifics about patent law, it's knowing what chapter of the MPEP that it's covered in.

The patent bar is open book with an electronic, searchable copy of the MPEP. Only problem is that you can only search in one chapter at a time. The questions are multiple choice. If you know what chapter is relevant to the question, you can pretty much identify the important keyword in each of the multiple choice answers, search the MPEP for it, and if it comes up (or doesn't come up in the "which of these things doesn't belong" questions), you know what to put down.
Also, unless it changed since I took it, about a third of the questions are recycled from old exams that are available to the public. So you can walk into to the test knowing the answer to one out of three questions, which buys you extra time to search through the MPEP for answers that you haven't already memorized.

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

woozle wuzzle posted:

She was being questioned over committing bankruptcy fraud, and her lie was in furtherance of said fraud. Judge basically frowned and that was it.

Here in the northern district of Texas they are actually prosecuting bk fraud. The U.S. AG wasn't doing it so they got the postmaster general involved some how.

patentmagus
May 19, 2013

Folly posted:

I regularly draw blanks on incredibly simple concepts of law.

No, you're avoiding the unintentional creation of an attorney-client relationship. :stare:

Folly posted:

So, why the hell does an open book, searchable, multiple-choice exam have a 50% pass rate?

Not studying or studying wrong. I met a guy who studied by reading the MPEP - multiple fails. I've met people who thought their 3L patent/IP class had prepared them - fails.

My passing combo was the PLI patent bar prep course and a week of hiding as I studied. I don't know if its still possible, but used materials used to be available on ebay for a quarter the price of the unsullied materials.

Professor Funk
Aug 4, 2008

WE ALL KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN
If there were a hypothetical room hypothetically called "Professor Funk's understanding of Criminal Law," every time I go to Criminal Law class would be the functional equivalent of tossing a live grenade into that room. :psyduck:

Folly
May 26, 2010

patentmagus posted:

No, you're avoiding the unintentional creation of an attorney-client relationship. :stare:


Not studying or studying wrong. I met a guy who studied by reading the MPEP - multiple fails. I've met people who thought their 3L patent/IP class had prepared them - fails.

My passing combo was the PLI patent bar prep course and a week of hiding as I studied. I don't know if its still possible, but used materials used to be available on ebay for a quarter the price of the unsullied materials.

Most of the legal questions I get aren't about specific matters, just concepts and headline cases. People want me to validate their opinion of Hobby Lobby or whatever. It's still embarrassing when you fail to remember the concept of "elements of a claim" for several minutes, or if you can't remember the word for "derivative work," or you utterly fail to explain why it's important that we have evidentiary standards at trial. There are all things I still seem to know, eventually, but because I never talk about it like I did in school I just can't bring that knowledge up at the drop of a hat anymore. The one guy that had a real matter got referred to a practicing attorney friend of mine. (I also carry insurance.)

I'll check ebay for the materials. I need to find one of those audiobook type study guides. Something I can use to get a good overview of the vocabulary, if nothing else. So far, patent law sounds like its own language.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Professor Funk posted:

If there were a hypothetical room hypothetically called "Professor Funk's understanding of Criminal Law," every time I go to Criminal Law class would be the functional equivalent of tossing a live grenade into that room. :psyduck:

Criminal law is like art. Most people think they have a pretty good idea what it is. Generally representational, demonstrating technical proficiency and nearly universally and immediately recognizable as art.
That was your great-great-grandpa's art. Now it's elephant crap, piss, paint spatter and women rubbing chocolate on themselves that is barely understandable only after years of charting the history of its divergence from actual art.

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.



Professor Funk posted:

If there were a hypothetical room hypothetically called "Professor Funk's understanding of Criminal Law," every time I go to Criminal Law class would be the functional equivalent of tossing a live grenade into that room. :psyduck:

Do we need to set up a thread outline bank for this dude?

Deceptive Thinker
Oct 5, 2005

I'll rip out your optics!

Professor Funk posted:

If there were a hypothetical room hypothetically called "Professor Funk's understanding of Criminal Law," every time I go to Criminal Law class would be the functional equivalent of tossing a live grenade into that room. :psyduck:

Get "Understanding Criminal Law" - its even in the OP
Guess what it does?

Folly
May 26, 2010
The Illustrated Guide to Criminal Law is a lot better than you'd think if you're totally lost and just need a place to start.

Edit: It's written for layman. It's really good for explaining these concepts to co-workers who say thing like "I'd love to be on a jury. Hang'em all!"

Folly fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Sep 25, 2014

Petey
Nov 26, 2005

For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?
My buddy made this: http://www.bestlaw.io/

quote:

When you read a document—like a case, statute, or law review article—Bestlaw adds a toolbar with these features:

Copy a perfect Bluebook citation with one click
Clean, readable view
Automatically-generated table of contents
Quick link to jump to footnotes
One-click copying for citations, titles, and full text
Collapse and expand statutory sections
Find the document on free sources like CourtListener, Cornell LII, Casetext, and Google Scholar
Prevent getting automatically signed off
Share the document by email or on Facebook, Twitter, and Google+

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Petey posted:

My buddy made this: http://www.bestlaw.io/

Prevent getting automatically signed off


MASHING INSTALL!

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.



My firm only has Lexis. :negative:

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Petey is this going to collect my WL password and sell it to solos on the black market? Be honest.

edit: actually, I don;'t care either way

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Petey, your friend should put in an option to hide the whole thing and leave just the "don't log me out" function running. My WL Next has gotten absurd levels of "Ask Toolbar" and "Search Menu" and "Frog Toolbar" and "AOL Toolbar" and it's seriously eating into the space for actually reading cases. A full quarter of my WL Next screen is eaten up by crap. I realize I should get a "real monitor" rather than this 1280x1024 one, but the courts don't ask my opinion on IT stuff.

EDIT: Seriously, all of this poo poo should be toggleable. The highlighting on page numbers. Displaying the toolbar. Pieces of the toolbar. Ideally he'd work his toolbar up into the WL Next menus/bars but I'm sure that's way harder than I think it is so will never happen.

This extension is neat and I love the idea of getting proper bluebook cites out of WL and having things be more convenient, but at the moment it's too intrusive for me to use. I realize I sound like a crotchety old man but having the page numbers be highlighted disrupts my reading because my eyes are always drawn to the highlighting.

What I'm saying is this is the perfect extension for someone on law review who has to do a lot of copyworking. That makes sense, because he's a law student and likely doing copywork all the time, but it means he doesn't have to use WL to actually do research all that much.

Arcturas fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Sep 25, 2014

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
I started to type pretty much the same thing, but you put it better than I would have. Looks useful for a law student, but would be more intrusive than helpful to me in practice.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Bold Robot posted:

My firm only has Lexis. :negative:

My office is switching from west to lexis next month. It is gonna suck.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

nm posted:

My office is switching from west to lexis next month. It is gonna suck.

I am not looking forward to going back to my firm and its Lexis-only set of research options. I swear people who use & like Lexis have Stockholm syndrome.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Arcturas posted:

I am not looking forward to going back to my firm and its Lexis-only set of research options. I swear people who use & like Lexis have Stockholm syndrome.

Lexis is Android to Westlaw's iOS - and I love it.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

nm posted:

My office is switching from west to lexis next month. It is gonna suck.

We still have both, but we recently took a vote of all firm timekeepers who had used Lexis in the past year (there were only about 20, and I was apparently one of them) if we wanted to keep Lexis. We unanimously voted no. So far nothing has come of that, but yes, Lexis is the absolute worst.

Feces Starship
Nov 11, 2008

in the great green room
goodnight moon

Soothing Vapors posted:

We still have both, but we recently took a vote of all firm timekeepers who had used Lexis in the past year (there were only about 20, and I was apparently one of them) if we wanted to keep Lexis. We unanimously voted no. So far nothing has come of that, but yes, Lexis is the absolute worst.

gently caress YOU *screamed so loud droplets of blood spurt from tattered throat walls and exit mouth*

Green Crayons
Apr 2, 2009
West is superior, of course. But once down on the Lexis level, I think old Lexis is better than Lexis Advance (which is so sloooooow). But they're even phasing out old Lexis.


Sigh.

tau
Mar 20, 2003

Sigillum Universitatis Kansiensis
If you want to understand criminal law down to its bare essence, go out and start incrementally committing crimes. Can't beat hands-on, firsthand experience.

Who else is excited for "How to Get Away With Murder" tonight?

SlothBear
Jan 25, 2009

tau posted:

Who else is excited for "How to Get Away With Murder" tonight?

Eh, in a decade or so it might have an Ed Wood quality to it I suppose.

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO
May 8, 2006
Speaking of exist, my local Lexis solo sales guy is pretty much the most persistent, dogged, relentless person I've ever met who wasn't some crazed litigant trying to get me to file weird suits years after the SOL.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Ive been at my current job two years. I've tried a ton of family law and other civil cases to the bench, one case to a jury (no criminal), and argued three cases to courts of appeals. That said, I've topped out at my pay grade, and I hate my current job amd my current city.

I should be looking for new gigs now right?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Ive been at my current job two years. I've tried a ton of family law and other civil cases to the bench, one case to a jury (no criminal), and argued three cases to courts of appeals. That said, I've topped out at my pay grade, and I hate my current job amd my current city.

I should be looking for new gigs now right?

What kind of portables do you have?

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

blarzgh posted:

What kind of portables do you have?

None.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Nows a much better market than a few years ago. State Bar job blast emails used to be 5-6 new posts every two weeks, now its 30-40 most times.

If there's no risk your employer finds out (or cares) that you're shopping around, it never hurts.

Be wary - more than a few younger attorneys (myself included) have had an experience with a really lovely work situation. Watch for the red flags during the interview. High turnover, solo practitioners looking to "pay-as-you-go", Husband/Wife partners, lots of paralegals to very few attorneys.

Dallas, Austin and Houston all seem to be doing well right now.

HiddenReplaced
Apr 21, 2007

Yeah...
it's wanking time.

blarzgh posted:

Husband/Wife partners

Had a class action against a husband/wife plaintiff's firm - halfway through the case they got divorced and poo poo got UGLY. It was so entertaining. The partner leading the case on my side started overtly flirting with the wife during calls/meetings where the ex-husband wasn't present, and then would commiserate with her ex-husband about how terrible ex-wives are.

Their disdain for each other ended up working in favor of my client and we settled for significantly less.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

HiddenReplaced posted:

The partner leading the case on my side started overtly flirting with the wife during calls/meetings where the ex-husband wasn't present,

Love it.

Folly
May 26, 2010
Well poo poo. Looks like no used materials for me. And very little usefulness on prepared guides all around. My exam is now scheduled for December 23rd, but...

USPTO OED posted:

The United States Patent and Trademark Office will update the content of the registration examination on October 4, 2014. The last date to take the current examination is September 29, 2014. No exams will be scheduled between September 29, 2014 and October 4, 2014. The updated examination will cover all material referred to in the Source Materials, including the Leahy-Smith America Invents Act (AIA).

This deal gets worse all the time.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Folly posted:

Well poo poo. Looks like no used materials for me. And very little usefulness on prepared guides all around. My exam is now scheduled for December 23rd, but...

A lot of the items will stay the same, and all you really need to know anyway is what chapter to search.

Deceptive Thinker
Oct 5, 2005

I'll rip out your optics!

Folly posted:

This deal gets worse all the time.

The biggest change is they're switching from the MPEP E8R9 to E9R0
If you've been using the current MPEP for your studying, you're fine - the exam is/was on the old version (which has a bunch of Federal Register Notices rather than the appropriately revised chapters
Rumor is it will actually get slightly easier because of this

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echopapa
Jun 2, 2005

El Presidente smiles upon this thread.
Sovereign video from the UK, in which we learn the correct thing to do if you kill someone while driving.

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