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I tried making a supercombatant in MA Ulm by giving my Tiwaz of War a Fire Brand, Behemoth Boots, Bracers of Protection, some belt that gives strength and restores fatigue, and some shield that gives him a permanent fire shield effect. He was doing alright stomping on tiny humans and taking out handfuls of troops with his flaming sword, but then after a short while he fell unconscious from fatigue, got mobbed and died. How are you supposed to make supercombatants work if fatigue builds up over the course of a battle? Also I still can't find how you're meant to set new mages to auto-research when they're recruited. I've googled it and all I can find is people talking about how great of a feature it is, but I have no idea how to access it. Please help.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:19
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| # ? May 29, 2024 13:05 |
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SCs aren't real but you should try using some more gear that gives reinvigoration http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspec...=reinvigoration The mage thing is in preferences ("Give orders to new commanders automatically") e: And by SCs aren't real I mean using huge quantities of gems to gear a unit with the intention of having it hit things with a stupid loving sword is dumb as hell and a huge waste. Spells are everything garth ferengi fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Sep 24, 2014 |
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Sep 24, 2014 23:21
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Boing posted:I tried making a supercombatant in MA Ulm by giving my Tiwaz of War a Fire Brand, Behemoth Boots, Bracers of Protection, some belt that gives strength and restores fatigue, and some shield that gives him a permanent fire shield effect. He was doing alright stomping on tiny humans and taking out handfuls of troops with his flaming sword, but then after a short while he fell unconscious from fatigue, got mobbed and died. How are you supposed to make supercombatants work if fatigue builds up over the course of a battle? There are some great magic items giving reinvigoration. Some give so much they neutralize everything you could possible do, with the exception of a shitload of Astral mages pelting you with with Stellar Cascades, of course. So I suggest forging those, or do more construction research until you can forge one of the stronger ones. See also the post above mine.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:24
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The auto research on recruit is in the preferences menu, a checkbox somewhere. I think your guy fell asleep because of those boots, every square you trample counts as an attack for fatigue iirc, so you generally tire quicker. Also giving him a fire brand + trample is pointless, you can't both trample and attack at the same time and a brand is not that good against single units (the only things your guy will attack normally will be other size 6 units). Also press 'y' to view combat orders for commanders that will be in the selected province next turn to coordinate attacks from multiple provs, also click things more, especially the morale and fatigue parts of a unit stat screen, they hide upkeep and age respectively. Also copy combat orders by mousing over them and shift + a number, paste them by pressing the appropriate number with your mouse over the line where the orders go.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:31
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Rainbow Armor, Boots of the Messenger, Ranger Boots, Boots of Youth, Amulet of Resilience, Heart of Life (adds +5 encumbrance though), and Girdle of Might are all non-art items that give reinvigoration.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:09
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If you don't want to see your SC sleeping till dead in the battlefield check to see if his reinvig is higher than his encumbrance stat. If encumbrance is higher give him lighter armor and/or more reinvigoration.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:35
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 Kitfox, ghosts are already dead. You're just delaying the inevitable. (Also I hope you can recruit those 58 Turans in a single turn, this kind of attrition won't be good for you otherwise.)
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Sep 25, 2014 00:51
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Every square you trample gives you fatigue so it piles on very quickly and if he can trample he will attempt to trample ANYTHING that is smaller than himself. If you want him to swing his cool fire sword you should definitely swap out the boots.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:29
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MA ulm has really good recruit anywhere infantry that pretty much has the hit guy with sord thing covered. Let the Tiwaz cast spells.
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Sep 25, 2014 01:37
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Yeah, with the appropriate buffs, your infantry can become unbelievably strong. They even have a national spell like antimagic that stacks with regular antimagic.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:12
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Libluini posted:There are some great magic items giving reinvigoration. Some give so much they neutralize everything you could possible do, with the exception of a shitload of Astral mages pelting you with with Stellar Cascades, of course. So I suggest forging those, or do more construction research until you can forge one of the stronger ones. Note that even a shitload of s mages spamming so much star cascades you pass out won't be enough if the thug has loads of HP and regeneration effects. [ASK] ilu about how many loving afflictions his god damned oni had after 3 50 turn battles on my cap with me trying to dislodge his crippled rear end in sunshine
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Sep 25, 2014 03:28
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AXE COP posted:Speaking of magic mirrors, how do they determine the unit to take the appearance of? Is it just the guy holding the item? The army takes on the image of the most populous unit, so if you have a commander with the mirror in an army of 30 militia and 10 heavy cavalry he will appear to have an army of 40 militia should any scouts come take a look.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:50
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Neruz posted:The army takes on the image of the most populous unit, so if you have a commander with the mirror in an army of 30 militia and 10 heavy cavalry he will appear to have an army of 40 militia should any scouts come take a look. And if they're travelling alone, it invalidates the already-dubious purpose of the mirror. Anyone with any tactical sense is going to be checking out your armies with attack-retreat scouts, so don't expect to keep anything secret for long.
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Sep 25, 2014 09:30
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Smerdyakov posted:And if they're travelling alone, it invalidates the already-dubious purpose of the mirror. Anyone with any tactical sense is going to be checking out your armies with attack-retreat scouts, so don't expect to keep anything secret for long. The mirror is of somewhat dubious utility yeah but the +army size and -army size items (Effigy of War and Cauldron of the Elven Halls respectively I think) are pretty useful; I've faked out a few people by having a couple of armies of 10 dudes with Effigy's of War patrolling my borders to look like I'm stronger and more threatening than I really am.
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Sep 25, 2014 09:43
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Kitfox88 posted:Note that even a shitload of s mages spamming so much star cascades you pass out won't be enough if the thug has loads of HP and regeneration effects. This is why I make sure to add astral mages casting Astral Geyser if I have the chance: Even if nothing else works, that thug or SC will have a nice future fighting horrors. Also most of his surviving army, if he comes with chaff. 
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Sep 25, 2014 10:22
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Yeah that oni probably had two dozen horror mark levels in addition to his curse
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Sep 25, 2014 20:38
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Wouldn't Marverni be better if they had a slave income which it could either sacrifice with or empower its mages in? Probably. Here is a mod to do that to some extent by making their temples produce one slave apiece, up to the dominion limit, similar to how Ragha works with Fire gems. I think 400g for a temple is not unreasonable since the nation relies so heavily on them. As per usual, everything is labelled and easily laid out if you'd like to alter it.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:45
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I think the problem with Marveni is that its power level feels more like a MA or LA nation rather than EA, which is known for insane sacreds and mages. Comparing a Boar Warrior with a Vanhere just leaves you scratching your head. Their mages have to communion together to match what other nations can do with their mages out of the box. That's problematic in an era where building tons of labs and forts is expensive. It also means your research will be inherently behind other nations that can keep most of their mages in the lab. Sequani Stargazers are awesome. Some of their troops are okay values. Boars are fun. Gifts from Heaven is good but not the best. They just aren't on the same level as all the EA powerhouses.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:23
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For sure. Blood slaves from temples is just part of the solution, but maybe it's something to play around with and see how it affects the nation.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:35
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jBrereton posted:For sure. Blood slaves from temples is just part of the solution, but maybe it's something to play around with and see how it affects the nation. Why is it that Marvernir was considered better in Dom 3 and poo poo now? Maybe the changes can be undone.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:47
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big druids could be recruited from any fort
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Sep 25, 2014 21:50
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Kanthulhu posted:Why is it that Marvernir was considered better in Dom 3 and poo poo now? Maybe the changes can be undone. Druids (the powerful ones) recruitable anywhere and not slow to recruit.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:56
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Kanthulhu posted:Why is it that Marvernir was considered better in Dom 3 and poo poo now? Maybe the changes can be undone. The really basic problem is that they aren't new, it's the same problem as nations like Atlantis and Arcoscephale (maybe the dullest nation in every era?).
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Sep 25, 2014 22:00
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Angry Lobster posted:Druids (the powerful ones) recruitable anywhere and not slow to recruit. So just mod that. Make the powerful druids recruitable everywhere and not-slow to recruit.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:41
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Kanthulhu posted:So just mod that. Make the powerful druids recruitable everywhere and not-slow to recruit. Even with that they still have poo poo magic diversity thanks to double randoms on the Elder Druid (1/16 chance of getting what you want) and weirdly expensive troops for how easy they are to kill in droves.
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Sep 25, 2014 23:22
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Eh, Marverni has sacred mages and their expansion is quite decent with cavalry. They have really really good paths for communions and there are few problems that can't be solved by gift of heaven communions, aided greatly by the regen/reinvig/power of the spheres they can stack up. Marverni's problem is that they have a big sign painted on them that screams "please rush my weak rear end in year 1-2" - I agree with the poster who said they have troops like a MA or LA nation I really don't get the hate on their mages though. Like, you have astral endgame and gift of heavens midgame, plus sacred mage upkeep. The non-cap mages can gift of heaven well enough with the right buffs being propagated (it gets really easy if you take a mage friendly bless).
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Sep 26, 2014 00:52
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While they do have good human troops, that's not saying much in the EA where there are super blesses, elves, and giant galore. Their magic also take a bit longer to bring online due to their paths. Arco kinda is able to get through the same problem with being a squishy human nation due to having the amazing mystic being both the primary researcher and battlemage of the nation. Like only half your druids are good with E1S2 or E2S1, while the other two are stuck with E1S1W1 or E1S1N1. While fine site searchers and researchers, it's a bit disappointing compared to other nations that can sally forth the entire research stack if necessary. The Elder Druid is also kinda disappointing for a slow-to-recruit, old, cap-only mage. amuayse fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 02:19
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It seems like Marv could be an easy fix with a change to slow to recruit and recruit everywhere Druids to make them recruit everywhere, one a turn. Maybe remove a couple of their poo poo paths to make them the battle magic powerhouses they were in Dom3. Then you need to address the shittiness of the troops. I reckon the best way is to make what they do best even better. I'm not familiar with Marv but I think they like berserking or something? Maybe just buff the poo poo out of some of their best troops so they can hold their own early game and that may fix things.
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Sep 26, 2014 02:48
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Yeah, I'd think that S2+2 100%ENW and making them cost 200 would make them decent.
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Sep 26, 2014 03:09
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The idea of having their temples make blood slaves is a good one too, Marverni really do need a way to properly break into blood because they are goddamn druids who can do blood sacrifice but have no actual way to find themselves virgins to sacrifice.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:42
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Pretty sure them not having blood magic but being able to blood sacrifice is a joke/nod to the celts being characterized as satanic pagans by Romans and others. So it's kinda missing the point to turn them into literal blood-worshipers but if the new marverni mod has some kinda latin name and buffs Ermor a lot then we'll all know what's up....
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Sep 26, 2014 05:13
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While the Romans and their descendants did massively exaggerate the barbaric practices of the Celts I was given to understand that some of the druidic orders from parts of Gaul, Britain and Ireland did in fact engage in the occasional human sacrifice for certain uncommon rituals. Due to how little accurate information there is about the druids ultimately we really don't have any loving clue who they were or what they did beyond the very basic outlines. That said Dominions is part real history and part made up fantasy and mythology and from a mythological perspective druids tend to do a bit of sacrificing so it would fit right into the game world and it would give Marverni a bit of a boost, which they could use.
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Sep 26, 2014 05:32
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Bog mummies and such.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:05
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I would either make the Elder Druids not StR or make them available everywhere. I like their magic paths: the chance at S4 is nice. And now you get the young Druids to be communion slaves. As for troops, I would hand out more javelins and up their AP and Str a little. They have no armor, so they need to hit hard before being splatted. Make the sacreds forest recruit.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:08
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Give them a national "gently caress yo' arrows" spell so their naked buff men don't die like pin-cushions?
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Sep 26, 2014 16:24
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Elder druids shouldn't be cap only, all their infantry should probably have javelins, and they could be slightly cheaper as well. Right now in my mod I've just made the druids recruit anywhere and given them a cheap short bow, but I might make other changes later(probably after trying them out myself).
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Sep 26, 2014 16:26
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Compared to earlier this week I think I'm getting the hang of how strategy for this game works (thanks for the tips). I figured out that PD exists so I'm doing much better against the AI without single commanders taking my undefended provinces every turn. Probably relying on it a bit more than is optimal for multiplayer but it keeps me sane when being attacked on 3 fronts. Can I have some clarification on terms and strategies: Minor bless / major bless / double bless - 'Minor' refers to like 4-5 in a magic path when you get your +3 strength or whatever, 'major' refers to when you have 9 for Quickness or Death Weapons etc., right? But what's a double bless? Is it double major, so getting 9+ in two paths? Can that even be done without an imprisoned god and like 2 dominion? Rainbow pretenders - These are pretenders with a broad base of magic paths but not going super deep in any of them, right? What are they used for? As battlemages? Or to give wide varieties of bless buffs to cheap Sacred troops? Scales - When are you supposed to dip into negative scales? I get that Order and Productivity are really good if you want to be making units at all, Growth a bit but less so. I get that if you're playing someone with a lot of resource costs then you bump Productivity and you can leave Order alone, or end up spend a lot of gold on castles and PD and stuff. Or if you have low resource costs then the opposite. But it's unclear what Fortune/Misfortune does exactly (besides giving slightly more or less favourable random events, which never seemed to do a great deal). Is it ok to dump down to Misfortune 3? Is Magic worth it, or is 3 RP per mage not really that big of a deal? Damage types - what's the difference? MA Ulm gets a bunch of infantry types that are identical except that some have battleaxes, others have pikes, others have mauls. Long weapons seem really good for repelling enemies as an extra layer of protection, so I've been going for spears and pikes a lot, but when would you expect to use different damage types effectively? I read someone mention that mauls are good against giants and I have no idea why that would be. Victory - what are the different ways of winning the game? I know about victory types like taking all the thrones or whatever but practically speaking how do you get to that point. Are you supposed to conquer your enemies' capital castles with troops through attrition or does it not work that way in MP? Are you supposed to turtle with as much territory as you can until you research your killer spells and then send out your researching scholars as battlemages instead? Or do you wait until big global enchantments that gently caress up the game for everyone else like Utterdark or something.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:44
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Double bless usually means double major. Actually not that hard to do, and is a pretty typical strategy for Mictlan and slightly less common for a few others. Most nations only want a single bless. Nobody knows what rainbows are good for. Typically they get you access to paths you couldn't otherwise reach, site search, and forge. But in Dom4 there are a lot more good titans, and indie mages with good paths are easier to find. For a lot of nations, scales are the most important part of building your pretender. For others, you can dump them like crazy. Production in particular gets dumped a lot, because for most nations you're gold limited after the first year. +3 rp is a lot on a cheap sacred mage that has a base rp of 5, at the same time, taking drain makes that mage a nearly worthless researcher. However, if you've got lots of mages with a base rp of 15, drain isn't that big of a deal. Magic/drain also impacts MR and spell fatigue. Never take misfortune 3, worse levels of bad events get unlocked there. Piercing damage has a small amount of AP, bludgeoning does extra damage to head hits, slashing is more likely to cause bleeding and remove limbs. Just buy pikemen unless you're facing enemies who are resistant/weak to certain damage types. Speleothing fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 16:58
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goatface posted:Give them a national "gently caress yo' arrows" spell so their naked buff men don't die like pin-cushions? I like national spells that require holy levels, like Ulm's iron shotguns, and Jomon's elemental monk spells. It'd be pretty cool to see Marveni versions, like an E2H2 "Woad" spell that deflects missiles, or N2H2 / W2H2 gemless-area-haste or boar-related spells. Call of the Wild but with pigs. Boing posted:Minor bless / major bless / double bless - 'Minor' refers to like 4-5 in a magic path when you get your +3 strength or whatever, 'major' refers to when you have 9 for Quickness or Death Weapons etc., right? But what's a double bless? Is it double major, so getting 9+ in two paths? Can that even be done without an imprisoned god and like 2 dominion? Blesswise, minor is anything below the level 9 breakpoint. Major is anything at or above the breakpoint. Double/triple is multiple level 9 blesses - yeah, you need bad scales and an imprisoned, cheap god, but the tradeoff can be worth it. Sometimes. Rainbows are used for magic diversification - forging boosters, summoning mages. Miniblesses aren't normally much to write home about and tend to be incidental rather than the entire goal. You can use rainbows if you're a nation with a really strong early game that can expand without much hassle, but you want access to more magic than your national mages provided - a sort of example would be playing a crone with EA Abysia, who tear up chaff and the AI and thus don't need a dragon. Scales, you generally want order so as to churn out millions of mages, forever. Misfortune is kind of a dump state if you're going order, but I would advise against going down to 3 because it unlocks bad events. Same with Drain and Death, unless you know what you're doing. Damage types don't really matter. There's incidental little bonuses (piercing has some AP aspect, slashing does more bleeding, blunt does double damage to heads) but the thing holding the sword is more important. For Ulm, recruit pikes. They're pretty good. Big weapons like mauls do a few more HP damage, but once you get weapons like halberds that provide stat maluses or have exorbitant resource costs it starts getting a little pointless. Victory - kill everyone. Teleport into throne provinces, siege them down, whatever. You could try making the game so unfun for everyone else that they all leave, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:02
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| # ? May 29, 2024 13:05 |
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A friend and I are joining a teams-of-2 disciples game on another forum and I'm wondering if people could give me some thoughts on strategy since this will be my first disciples game. We've already drafted EA Mictlan and are looking to pick our 2nd nation now. Obviously having Mictlan means we want to leverage a good bless and dompushing with whatever enchantments we can get online, plus other considerations like having a temp neutral pretender we can push to h2 and get some extra scale points. Also having Mictlan opens up any sloth-friendly nations as options. Playing with pretenders, I wanted to take a N9 awake pretender (using one of the many N3 chasis) and then give disciple Mictlan an awake dragon with that sweet sweet hp regen (sadly, he doesn't seem to get awe if the pretender takes dom9, so maybe dom8 or even 7?). This leaves some scales leftover, in the ballpark of O3 S2 H2 Somethhing3. The dragon can take 5 in any path we need (probably air for dark skies + air magic shenanigans...) and will be awake for fast expanding while the N9 guy is awake for... well whatever he can manage. Any thoughts, or any tips from other players on how they put together a winning disciples strategy? The other players seem experienced enough based on their first nation draft, I look forward to dealing with fun things like dual bless white centaurs and 2 sailing nations.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:21
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