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Why is despise main with thoughtseize in the side?
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Sep 25, 2014 21:08
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Sickening posted:If fetchlands don't find themselves in as many standard decks as shocks did how in the hell do their price stay over 10 bucks? Single pricing is often just collusion among dealers. Zoness posted:Why is despise main with thoughtseize in the side? I imagine he just doesn't want to pay life.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:08
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Zoness posted:Why is despise main with thoughtseize in the side? Not sure, but maybe a justification could be most, if not all, decks are going to rely on creature/planeswalker strategies, so unless they're running a weird control deck it isn't worth the 2 life.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:09
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Mortimer posted:Not sure, but maybe a justification could be most, if not all, decks are going to rely on creature/planeswalker strategies, so unless they're running a weird control deck it isn't worth the 2 life. A poor justification.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:11
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Lord Of Texas posted:A poor justification. Or, they're expecting 80% of the decks to be rabble red, which is a much better justification, and also true.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:12
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Angry Grimace posted:Single pricing is often just collusion among dealers. Your life is pretty irrelevant in an aggro deck. Another reason why Sorin is bad.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:13
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mcmagic posted:Your life is pretty irrelevant in an aggro deck. Another reason why Sorin is bad. I didn't say I agreed with it. Also, Sorin is a good Magic card. Also, I think I'm going to buy a playset of Chandra, Pyromaster. She's so fun with Courser of Kruphix and she's easily the cheapest playable Planeswalker around.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:23
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mcmagic posted:Your life is pretty irrelevant in an aggro deck. Another reason why Sorin is bad. This is why I'm running 11 painlands and 4 fetches in mardu Aggro 
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Sep 25, 2014 21:32
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Cactrot posted:This is why I'm running 11 painlands and 4 fetches in mardu Aggro Zero reason not to. I'd run the full 12. 4x Caves 4x Forge 4x Confluence.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:33
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mcmagic posted:Zero reason not to. I'd run the full 12. 4x Caves 4x Forge 4x Confluence.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:35
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Between the apparent momentum of the game and positive reception to Khans, it can be expected to be opened a lot, it should push prices down hard. Won't be drafted with the last set though, so staples may go up a bit until it and Fate cycle out.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:35
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Cactrot posted:This is why I'm running 11 painlands and 4 fetches in mardu Aggro BTW looking at that Mana base, Soldier is VERY reasonable. You have 12 ways to make white mana right there.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:37
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Lord Of Texas posted:A poor justification.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:38
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Korak posted:Outside of the Jeskai Combo deck, which new standard deck isn't running a planeswalker or creature as a wincon? The point is that Thoughtsieze is much better and the only way you want Despise is in matchups where you want more than 4 Thoughtsieze.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:46
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Cactrot posted:This is why I'm running 11 painlands and 4 fetches in mardu Aggro 3 mountains 20 fetches let the bodies hit the floooooooooor someone is actually considering that somewhere. "if you think about it all fetches are like lotus petals for delve  "
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Sep 25, 2014 21:51
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Our early testing has found that most of the time we're taking a creature or planeswalker with discard anyway. It isn't that the 2 life is the issue but why pay it when you don't have to?
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Sep 25, 2014 22:12
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Lord Of Texas posted:A poor justification. The other issue is potentially that Thoughtseize is $18, a.k.a. "the poor justifiction."
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Sep 25, 2014 22:14
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Mortimer posted:Or, they're expecting 80% of the decks to be rabble red, which is a much better justification, and also true. No meta in the history of Magic has ever been 80% anything. Not even Caw-Blade at its most dominant was 80% of the meta. jassi007 posted:Our early testing has found that most of the time we're taking a creature or planeswalker with discard anyway. It isn't that the 2 life is the issue but why pay it when you don't have to? Great but it's wayyyy to early in the season to predict what a particular tournament or meta is going to look like, even if you think your group has it figured out. I don't have it figured out either, and that's the point. Thoughtseize is uncertainty insurance. Korak posted:Outside of the Jeskai Combo deck, which new standard deck isn't running a planeswalker or creature as a wincon? That's not the point. I didn't say Despise was useless. But sometimes, even when the opponent has a creature or planeswalker in hand, you're likely to want to have the option of taking an instant/sorcery/enchantment/artifact instead. There's a reason Despise wasn't played last time it was in standard, and those were the days of Stoneforge/Squadron Hawk/Jace/Gideon. Angry Grimace posted:The other issue is potentially that Thoughtseize is $18, a.k.a. "the poor justifiction." This of course is valid.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:28
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Well yeah, Thoughtseize is just better in general. The only legitimate reason to not play Thoughtseize if you are in a black deck is you can't afford them. Despise is probably more relevant than Duress would be in Standard, but its not Thoughtseize. There's a reason Kibler hates the card - its just so good there's no reason not to seize if you can. I can't say I'm going to be sad to see Thoughtseize rotate out even though I play with them all the time.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:35
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Lord Of Texas posted:
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Sep 25, 2014 22:59
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Can we all just stop being upset about Thoughtseize being the best black card in standard and instead revel in how flavorful Bloodsoaked Champion is and that Sarkhan is the best Redwalker since Pyromaster?
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Sep 25, 2014 23:07
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Count Bleck posted:Can we all just stop being upset about Thoughtseize being the best black card in standard and instead revel in how flavorful Bloodsoaked Champion is and that Sarkhan is the best Redwalker since Pyromaster? Isn't it also the first red walker since Pyromaster?
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Sep 25, 2014 23:13
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^^ Not monoRed no, there was Xenagos.Count Bleck posted:Can we all just stop being upset about Thoughtseize being the best black card in standard and instead revel in how flavorful Bloodsoaked Champion is and that Sarkhan is the best Redwalker since Pyromaster? It's kind of annoying that, especially coming off the back of BW Midrange, I'm being drawn into Mardu or Abzan, which will probably call for getting Nissas or Sarkhans (or Stormbreaths, which is little better) At least Painlands aren't too expensive.
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Sep 25, 2014 23:20
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My brother is on the hunt for his last Thoughtseize now so he can make his Modern deck better. He doesn't play Black in anything but his Rat Tribal Modern deck. Gotta remind him to get his Mutavaults too. Have they hit their pricing-floor (~$12) or will they drop a bit more?
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Sep 25, 2014 23:20
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I have a foil miscut pearl lake ancient, is it wrong to hope it becomes a control finisher so I can sell it for cash money?
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Sep 25, 2014 23:50
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Mezzanon posted:I have a foil miscut pearl lake ancient, is it wrong to hope it becomes a control finisher so I can sell it for cash money? How would that ever be wrong? edit: attempted humblebrag failed
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Sep 25, 2014 23:51
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Korak posted:Outside of the Jeskai Combo deck, which new standard deck isn't running a planeswalker or creature as a wincon? Just for the record as someone who has been testing the Jeskai Ascendency deck it's almost always right to Thoughtseize a mana dork t1 against it anyway
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Sep 26, 2014 00:07
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Could someone explain the jeskai ascendency deck?
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Sep 26, 2014 00:08
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain the jeskai ascendency deck?
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Sep 26, 2014 00:10
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Primarily modern or also standard? E:I see the edit
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Sep 26, 2014 00:13
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain the jeskai ascendency deck? General situation is get two mana dorks and Ascendency in play and start chaining cantrip auras. You can either just get your dorks big enough to fly over for lethal with Stratus Walk, or get positive mana by drawing into a second Ascendency, Twinflame, or Retraction Helix + Dragon Mantle and win with Burning Anger.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:15
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Actually I think the Modern one is more Cantrip-Storm up a Grapeshot with your basically infinite mana from mana dorks and backup "swing this loving huge BoP at your face." The Satndard one is "Retraction Helix on Ornithopter. Send this Astral Cornicopia/Briber's Purse/Tormod's Crypt back to my hand. Replay it for free. Ascendancy Trigger, untap Ornithopter. Repeat until HUGE. Swing an Infinty/Infinity+2 Ornithopter at your face."
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Sep 26, 2014 00:22
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Cernunnos posted:The Satndard one is "Retraction Helix on Ornithopter. Send this Astral Cornicopia/Briber's Purse/Tormod's Crypt back to my hand. Replay it for free. Ascendancy Trigger, untap Ornithopter. Repeat until HUGE. Swing an Infinty/Infinity+2 Ornithopter at your face." the standard one is the modern one just with less cantrips, the wincon is the same except you make a ton of mana and fireball.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:23
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The artifact version of the combo is real loving bad never play it The only real debate is whether you go all out with enchantments and run Eidolon of Blossoms and Kruphix's Insight to minimize fizzle chance or if you run the more powerful but less consistent version that mains Twinflame and Retraction Helix and uses Delve spells or Divination for card draw
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Sep 26, 2014 00:25
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:The artifact version of the combo is real loving bad never play it
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Sep 26, 2014 00:26
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BizarroAzrael posted:^^ Not monoRed no, there was Xenagos. I'm not sure that Sarkhan is better than Xenagos.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:31
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Cernunnos posted:The Satndard one is "Retraction Helix on Ornithopter. Send this Astral Cornicopia/Briber's Purse/Tormod's Crypt back to my hand. Replay it for free. Ascendancy Trigger, untap Ornithopter. Repeat until HUGE. Swing an Infinty/Infinity+2 Ornithopter at your face." The version I saw was more robust, with dorks and removal, and Ensoul Artifact as a backup plan. This one might become a Thing.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:33
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So you're telling me there's a chance of standard playable Treasure Cruises? Would make me happy. (Or was that happening anyway?)
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Sep 26, 2014 00:34
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Rinkles posted:So you're telling me there's a chance of standard playable Treasure Cruises? Would make me happy. (Or was that happening anyway?) Definitely. The effect is too good not to see a least an attempt at competitive play.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:36
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Rinkles posted:So you're telling me there's a chance of standard playable Treasure Cruises? Would make me happy. (Or was that happening anyway?) Pretty sure treasure cruise will be standard staple as it's been fantastic in testing. It comes down at 1-3 mana in most situations and when topdecked is virtually always 1-2 mana. Can just immediately break a game since it actually ADDS tempo instead of slows it down in many cases. Super strange spell to play with, it feels like you're doing some sort of combo but nope, just playing a card and drawing 3.
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Sep 26, 2014 00:39
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