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Drunk in Space posted:This is actually my biggest problem with Civ V, and what inevitably kills it for me every time I try to get into it. It's really sad that in over 100 hours of gameplay I've only seen the AI capture a capital once. The vast majority of my games are really static (AI city spam notwithstanding) until *I* decide to do something. Problems with the Stack of Doom or no, at least in Civ IV you would see dynamic map changes over time as a handful of AI empires dominated other ones and rose to prominence, which in turn set up interesting conflicts down the line. The only way I see other empires becoming large in Civ V is spamming tons of useless and annoying cities all over the place. You did get runaways in vanilla and G&K but it seems the pacifying effect of trade routes in BNW put a stop to that. You could count on Greece or Persia gobbling up an entire continent. The AI is much less bloodthirsty in BNW, and if you're on the lookout it's pretty easy to sabotage them through bribes/diplomacy if they even threaten to snowball. They may also be slightly more susceptible to happiness problems in BNW so that the tourism effects aren't utterly irrelevant. That could just be my experience but if it's true it would slow their roll as well.
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Sep 24, 2014 23:14
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So I've been keeping my eye on Civ V for a while, and finally got it for a good price. I've been playing a lot of Civ 4 lately, and found the vanilla game to just be too "fast". I'd go through technologies too fast. I downloaded a mod called Caveman 2 Cosmos which slows it down a lot (you start at 50,000 BC). Lots more technologies and buildings, but there's just so much to keep track of. Water pollution, air pollution, crime, flammability, education, etc. It's a lot. Not too hard to manage, just a lot of buildings that deal with all of those traits, and the game slows to a crawl with big maps. It seems like Civ V doesn't have nearly the same amount of mods available that Civ 4 does, which I assume is a fault related with the code and not a lack of effort. Is the vanilla game just that good? Can I get the same sort of "slower" experience with a mod, or should I just slow the game down to marathon?
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Sep 25, 2014 00:13
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I play Marathon on huge maps and I see multiple capitals being taken every game. Most games that I play continents will see one AI remove another before I meet them. It is useful for getting liberation bonuses to your diplomacy. I liberate cities and sell them to the weaker civs.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:19
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Alkydere posted:
But in this instance, I was 2nd in military strength behind the Greeks despite playing peacfully, so  I'll just chalk this all up to a weird coincidence. Regarding AI capital chat: I've seen the Ottomans and Venice (  ) each get to 5 capitals
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Sep 25, 2014 00:54
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Even if you draw a hand of nothing but warmongering assholes as your competition for a game, there's no guarantee that they all won't roll low on their aggressive traits and high on peaceful ones. The only surety is that Gandhi will nuke your rear end.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:50
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in my last game, strangely enough the other ais seemed to be aware of that. ghandi got eaten alive :v
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Sep 25, 2014 03:09
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Antares posted:They may also be slightly more susceptible to happiness problems in BNW so that the tourism effects aren't utterly irrelevant. That could just be my experience but if it's true it would slow their roll as well. The AI is very susceptible to happiness problems, at least compared to before BNW. Just did a game on the Amazon map as Brazil and that map utterly screws everyone with how few luxury resources, both in quantity and density. Lots of sugar, a smattering a few others, and because of that none of the AIs expanded past 3 cities as the vast majority of the map barbarian-land.
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Sep 25, 2014 03:09
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Tollymain posted:in my last game, strangely enough the other ais seemed to be aware of that. ghandi got eaten alive :v Gandhi almost always gets eaten alive in my experience. He utterly hates warfare but doesn't bother building practically any military, which means as soon as any civ commits any acts of violence, he denounces them, makes an enemy, and gets rolled over. I'm honestly not sure the devs realized how terrible his AI settings are.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:23
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Propagandist posted:So I've been keeping my eye on Civ V for a while, and finally got it for a good price. I've been playing a lot of Civ 4 lately, and found the vanilla game to just be too "fast". I'd go through technologies too fast. I've been wondering this too. I'm pretty sure after 4-5 years, Civ 4 had a ton of good conversion mods, but these seem few and far between for Civ 5. I guess on top of the code issue, a lot of the good modders during Civ 4's heyday have probably moved on with their lives. I have to say, though, Caveman 2 Cosmos went way too overboard; the mod pretty much defines "content bloat." My personal favourite Civ 4 mod was Legends of Revolution, which did a great job of adding enough stuff that it enhanced the game (like super units - you could build the 300 Spartans  ) while still making it perfectly playable, instead of going the content bloat route of adding a dozen different buildings that enchance gold output by +1%. In the ancient period.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:36
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Yeah, I mean I do like what C2C was going for, but it's just way too much. I find things just get tedious. I'm going to give Fall from Heaven 2 a try next before Civ V
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Sep 25, 2014 04:53
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ColdBlooded posted:But in this instance, I was 2nd in military strength behind the Greeks despite playing peacfully, so If you're doing well in a peaceful game, chances are that you have a ton of CS allies. A ton of CS allies means that the Militaristic ones will be dumping loads of up-to-date military units on you without even having to build them yourself. A 2000 Gold investment into a Militaristic CS in the Industrial era will probably pay out two or three times that amount in free units.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:58
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Or next turn the AIs start coup spamming with their infinite supply of disposable spies.
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Sep 25, 2014 14:36
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The White Dragon posted:If you're doing well in a peaceful game, chances are that you have a ton of CS allies. A ton of CS allies means that the Militaristic ones will be dumping loads of up-to-date military units on you without even having to build them yourself. A 2000 Gold investment into a Militaristic CS in the Industrial era will probably pay out two or three times that amount in free units. Assuming you want the units, which tend to be oddball ones; I don't think I've ever gotten a basic melee or ranged unit when any other type was available. And if you don't want the units, then the best you get is something like a fifth their value for disbanding the unit in your territory. Militaristic city-state gifts could be useful in a meat-grinder war, but most CiV wars aren't meat-grinders. You want a core of highly-promoted ranged/siege units with some city snipers, not a bunch of random weird units to smash into the enemy's defenses.
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Sep 25, 2014 14:56
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Assuming you want the units, which tend to be oddball ones; I don't think I've ever gotten a basic melee or ranged unit when any other type was available. And if you don't want the units, then the best you get is something like a fifth their value for disbanding the unit in your territory. Sounds like fun to me. Get some panzers supported by winged hussars to clear out enemy units while the siege towers move into position under the covering fire of some long bowmen and chu-ko-nu.
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Sep 25, 2014 15:03
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Pvt.Scott posted:Sounds like fun to me. Get some panzers supported by winged hussars to clear out enemy units while the siege towers move into position under the covering fire of some long bowmen and chu-ko-nu. I didn't mean that you get unique units -- those show up rarely enough that they don't really significantly factor into my games in my experience. I more meant that you get stuff like anti-air batteries, lancers, helicopters, marines, etc. All of the weird "this unit has a special purpose and is outside of that purpose only so-so" units.
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Sep 25, 2014 15:56
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I didn't mean that you get unique units -- those show up rarely enough that they don't really significantly factor into my games in my experience. I more meant that you get stuff like anti-air batteries, lancers, helicopters, marines, etc. All of the weird "this unit has a special purpose and is outside of that purpose only so-so" units. If you don't meet the requirements for the CS unique unit, you just get a unit drawn randomly from the grab bag of whatever's available. Late in the game there are a lot of oddball specialized units available, so the further you get the more CS gifts trend towards uselessness.
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Sep 25, 2014 18:11
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Propagandist posted:It seems like Civ V doesn't have nearly the same amount of mods available that Civ 4 does, which I assume is a fault related with the code and not a lack of effort. Is the vanilla game just that good? Can I get the same sort of "slower" experience with a mod, or should I just slow the game down to marathon? Drunk in Space posted:I've been wondering this too. I'm pretty sure after 4-5 years, Civ 4 had a ton of good conversion mods, but these seem few and far between for Civ 5. I guess on top of the code issue, a lot of the good modders during Civ 4's heyday have probably moved on with their lives. Aside from BtS being 6 years older than BNW and vanilla Civ 4 being 5 years older than vanilla Civ 5, it mostly has to do with the difference in how mods work between the two games. In Civ4, you could only have one mod loaded at a time. This prompted coders to get together in teams to make huge mods like Caveman2Cosmos, FFH2, RFC, etc. In Civ5, there is a much more piecemeal approach since you can load multiple mods at once. Compatibility with other mods is a core facet of coding for Civ 5 as opposed to 4 -- you can have game-changing mods like Emigration, Civ 4 Diplomacy, City-State Diplomacy, and Health & Plague all running together at once. In fact, one of my design goals with Wish for the World is to make it compatible even with smaller-scale total conversions, though that's a stretch goal. So, rather than have a giant single conversion mod, many modders prefer to implement multiple mods which make smaller changes. Essentially, you can create your own total conversion based on which mods you enable. There are plenty of overhauls/conversions out there for Civ 5, though. There is Ea, Super Power Modpack, Faerun, a Wheel of Time conversion, Hulfgar's Industrial Warfare, R.E.D. WWII, just to name the ones I'm most familiar with. Take a look at the Civfanatics Creation & Customization forum; a lot of them are not hosted on the Steam Workshop.
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Sep 25, 2014 18:16
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I would have thought no working multiplayer mods would hurt the mod community as well - modders generally like to share, that's why they mod.
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Sep 25, 2014 18:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Militaristic city-state gifts could be useful in a meat-grinder war, but most CiV wars aren't meat-grinders. You want a core of highly-promoted ranged/siege units with some city snipers, not a bunch of random weird units to smash into the enemy's defenses. Oh, I definitely agree, but for calculating whether it wants to declare war on you, the AI doesn't know that  All it sees is "drat this peaceful player has a crazy high military score, I better not gently caress with that."
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Sep 25, 2014 18:43
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Pvt.Scott posted:Yeah, setting up a worldwide whipping boy that isn't your civ is a great defensive tool. Did that with Sweden last game and liberated some Egyptian cities bringing them back into the game and make a brosef for life.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:00
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The White Dragon posted:Oh, I definitely agree, but for calculating whether it wants to declare war on you, the AI doesn't know that Ehhh, this is true, but all those extra units can be a real drag on your economy sometimes. That unit maintenance cost really adds up! I guess you have to decide how much you're willing losing your international trade routes to some rear end in a top hat declaring war on you and plundering them vs. how much you're willing to pay for deterrence.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:01
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Excess units are awesome if you go Freedom and take Arsenal of Democracy. Even terrible units like that scout you never managed to lose are worth +20 influence to a city state!
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Sep 25, 2014 19:03
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Pretty sure scouts aren't eligible for gifting to city states, precisely because they're so cheap and never obsolete.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:12
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Aren't they? I could've sworn I was unable to build them eventually. In any case, I give away any of the worthless pikes and crossbowmen instead of spending money to upgrade them into worse units.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:18
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Scouts obsolete at some point, yes. I wish they had an upgrade line besides finding a goody hut. A late game dedicated scout/support unit would be cool.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:32
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Assuming you want the units, which tend to be oddball ones; I don't think I've ever gotten a basic melee or ranged unit when any other type was available. And if you don't want the units, then the best you get is something like a fifth their value for disbanding the unit in your territory. I mentioned this awhile back but the best thing to do with units given to you that you don't want is to re-gift them elsewhere. Either for a bump with a city state, or to help a friendly Civ in a war.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:27
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Pvt.Scott posted:Scouts obsolete at some point, yes. I wish they had an upgrade line besides finding a goody hut. A late game dedicated scout/support unit would be cool. They should upgrade to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-18_radar
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Sep 25, 2014 20:45
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KKKlean Energy posted:They should upgrade to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-18_radar Yeah, I could dig this! Upgrade to Explorer with Compass (or Optics?) like in Civ 4, Spotter with Military Science, and then once you get radar, you get, well, that. And then if you get a goody hut, it turns into an Archer.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:07
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Nono, they obviously upgrade into archers
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Sep 25, 2014 22:03
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Gort posted:I would have thought no working multiplayer mods would hurt the mod community as well - modders generally like to share, that's why they mod. Mods in multiplayer are a thing now. The main issue currently is that lots of mod-related stuff which works in a single player game causes some problems in a MP environment. You also have to deal with the logistics of making sure that everyone is running an identical package. As an aside, this method probably allows you to use mods in a  "unmodded" single player game...which would mean you could use the Gaben Civ to earn achievements.
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Sep 26, 2014 07:53
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Vicevirtuoso posted:Mods in multiplayer are a thing now. The main issue currently is that lots of mod-related stuff which works in a single player game causes some problems in a MP environment. You also have to deal with the logistics of making sure that everyone is running an identical package. Mods disabling single player achievements seems a bit silly in the first place since you can just edit the game XML files locally to cheat however much you want and still get achievements since the game doesn't care whether the local files are edited or not. It's a bit of a half-hearted method of preventing "undeserved" achievements.
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Sep 26, 2014 09:16
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Vicevirtuoso posted:Mods in multiplayer are a thing now. The main issue currently is that lots of mod-related stuff which works in a single player game causes some problems in a MP environment. You also have to deal with the logistics of making sure that everyone is running an identical package. This has been available for only a small fraction of Civ5s lifetime, while 4 had multiplayer mods from day 1.
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Sep 26, 2014 11:58
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DarthBlingBling posted:Nono, they obviously upgrade into archers The worst ruins to find.
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Sep 26, 2014 12:36
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BigPaddy posted:The worst ruins to find. Eh? Scouts upgraded into archers are pretty sweet. Certainly better than "You have found a map of a worthless patch of sea!" or "Here are the locations of nearby barbarians!"
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Sep 26, 2014 17:52
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Gort posted:Eh? Scouts upgraded into archers are pretty sweet. Certainly better than "You have found a map of a worthless patch of sea!" or "Here are the locations of nearby barbarians!" "There are waves here, some waves here, also waves over here. We're not sure what kind of waves in between those ones, though"
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Sep 26, 2014 17:59
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Chronojam posted:"There are waves here, some waves here, also waves over here. We're not sure what kind of waves in between those ones, though" Apparently someone teaches you how to read their stick charts.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:10
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BigPaddy posted:The worst ruins to find. Now she hopes for them every time.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:13
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Gort posted:Eh? Scouts upgraded into archers are pretty sweet. Certainly better than "You have found a map of a worthless patch of sea!" or "Here are the locations of nearby barbarians!" "Here's this awesome new exotic technology that you were about to discover next turn anyway, enjoy those 3-5 free beakers!"
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Sep 26, 2014 18:54
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"Your terrain-ignoring pathfinder suddenly whips out composite bows from nowhere, enjoy taking some cities"
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Sep 26, 2014 19:47
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Gort posted:Eh? Scouts upgraded into archers are pretty sweet. Certainly better than "You have found a map of a worthless patch of sea!" or "Here are the locations of nearby barbarians!" To be clear, that statement was based on the discussion of what scouts could upgrade to, with a hypothetical: Scout ------> Explorer ------> Mobile Radar Array --- (ruins) ---> Archer
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Sep 26, 2014 19:56
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