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Pierson posted:Is the beta in stage 3 yet? Op doesn't say and that's what I'm really waiting for. There's nightlies you can opt in for and try out new (but by no means final) content. The 'stable beta' is what you're probably talking about, and no, it's still in dire need of an update.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:43
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so I know  but I backed burned Starbound "until it's done or something" quite a while ago, and only really heard that people were mad about something when the Spacebase DF9 thing went pear shaped and everyone was comparing it to Starbound. Can somebody sum up what the beef is for me?
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Sep 26, 2014 15:49
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Arnold of Soissons posted:so I know They both take/took place in space.
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Sep 26, 2014 15:53
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Arnold of Soissons posted:so I know Six months without a stable (non-save-file ruining) version of an update released, some highly unpopular gameplay changes (mostly ore surfing) but until they are in the stable, I wouldn't call them 'final'. Also the novakid spaceship is literally a train, and it's just too loving cool to be in any video game, and should be in an irl space program.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:36
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Yeah that's basically it, it's just been half a year with no update to the mostly-playable side of the game, and it doesn't look like there's going to be another update any time soon since they're talking about working on some things I assume are going to take a while (new furniture sets, mini-biomes, special missions, etc.) The unpopular changes people are upset about haven't gotten in, but they've been mostly reversed or improved. Ore-surfing (knocking down some sand so that is cascades down and knocks all the ore loose for you to collect) was removed for a dumb reason, and it doesn't seem like they're going back on their stance on forced gated progression RE: mining, but the matter manipulator upgrades look nice.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:41
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Babe Magnet posted:Yeah that's basically it, it's just been half a year with no update to the mostly-playable side of the game, and it doesn't look like there's going to be another update any time soon since they're talking about working on some things I assume are going to take a while (new furniture sets, mini-biomes, special missions, etc.) I wonder if random pick drops may help you circumvent the forced mine gating, i.e. finding a tier 3 pickaxe that lets you mine higher level ores or whatever.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:44
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That just seems like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. I can't see any reason that there would be gated ores in the first place, since ore generation is tied to the planet tier you're on anyway. If you want to jump ahead to a zone where aliens murder the poo poo out of you on a regular basis to get those sweet, sweet tier 8 ores, I say power to you, and good luck. You'll probably be allowed to "skip" tiers with the pickaxes and people will eat that poo poo up as being unique and groundbreaking.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:56
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Unique or groundbreaking I don't think so, but it's certainly a way of making cool loot. Like finding a really good crafting book in Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead. You feel pretty good when you run into a library and know you're going to be able to make all sorts of neat stuff if you can survive long enough to use them. It also encourages people to go on longer expeditions to both find picks and get the best use out of them. Seems like a good idea to me, rather than just planet hopping and surface mining because it's quicker.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:02
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OwlFancier posted:Unique or groundbreaking I don't think so, but it's certainly a way of making cool loot. Like finding a really good crafting book in Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead. You feel pretty good when you run into a library and know you're going to be able to make all sorts of neat stuff if you can survive long enough to use them. Yeah, surface mining really killed exploration, the more reason they can add to dig down deep and really explore a planet, rather than just run across the surface and hop to the next place, the better. That's one of my biggest concerns. Skipping over as much content as you can, as quickly as you can, doesn't really make for a more fun experience for me.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:09
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Yeah they can keep the pickaxes, just let them have you mine faster or in bigger chunks or whatever, so that it's still cool when you find one and they're stuff you'll want to keep an eye for because they're still useful, and just take out gated progression re: ores. Unless they either jack up the prices on upgrading the matter manip a whole bunch, or lower how much you can use the pickaxes greatly, it's not going to matter anyway, since the first thing 99% of players are going to do with the ore they mined up using their shortcut pickaxe is upgrade their matter manip to mine those ores anyway. So what's the point in making you rely on the RNG or grinding for that?
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Sep 26, 2014 18:27
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Babe Magnet posted:Unless they either jack up the prices on upgrading the matter manip a whole bunch, or lower how much you can use the pickaxes greatly, it's not going to matter anyway, since the first thing 99% of players are going to do with the ore they mined up using their shortcut pickaxe is upgrade their matter manip to mine those ores anyway. So what's the point in making you rely on the RNG or grinding for that? Yeah that's actually a really good question.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:35
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Babe Magnet posted:Yeah they can keep the pickaxes, just let them have you mine faster or in bigger chunks or whatever, so that it's still cool when you find one and they're stuff you'll want to keep an eye for because they're still useful, and just take out gated progression re: ores. One would assume the notion is to allow you to progress by industrial-scale mining, or by exploring and looting treasure chests for ores and picks. Or are we supposed to be rooting for linear progression now?
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Sep 26, 2014 18:40
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Pickaxes as powerful but limited use items would be rad. I don't mind having to make a couple picks at the very start, (since the idea is your character is re-inventing the wheel in a lot of ways) but I am glad they are moving to make the MM more of an omnitool.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:40
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E: Pickaxes, right now (meaning, as far as they've talked about on the devblog, not actually in the game proper) are powerful limited use items, so wish granted! It's not so much "rooting" for linear progression as much as that's how it is right now, until we get word that it's not. A while back, when the mining changes first starting taking a turn for the worse, you could only mine up to certain ores with each type of pickaxe. This was bad for a variety of reasons we've discussed in the thread previously. When the changes were made so that the matter manipulator would become your primary mining tool, and pickaxes would be non-craftable, non-repairable extra bonuses, nothing was mentioned regarding the gating of ores behind some lame progression mechanic, so I'm just assuming that it remains, especially in the context of "wouldn't it be neat if pickaxes let you skip tiers". I want progression to be non-linear, to clarify where I stand on this issue. I want to be able to zip over to a high-end planet and scramble around avoiding everything just so I can grab like 4 tier 8 ore and make a nice chair. I'd like that option, at least.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:59
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Personally, I don't care much what they do with the game so long as I can find a planet I like the looks of then turn it into an unfathomably large golden penis.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:55
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The other big thing to remember is it's a bad idea to try and completely eliminate sequence breaking from a "metroidsylvia" style game, where trying sequence break is half the fun. So it sounds like they are moving towards a happy medium, with power-up picks. I can understand nerfing sand surfing, the same way they nerfed the avian airship's gun merchant - it turned your priorities to making a beeline to a desert planet or looking for an airship (in fact, there was a google doc with coordinates to them before changes to universe generation made them obsolete). However, today metadept was working on the code that has been causing longstanding bugs in cascading blocks such as fine sand - one of them is to stop blocks from disappearing. If that gets fixed, the old method of sand mining where you stand under a giant mass of sand and deliberately cause a cave in will probably not be such a good idea.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:22
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XboxPants posted:Yeah, surface mining really killed exploration, the more reason they can add to dig down deep and really explore a planet, rather than just run across the surface and hop to the next place, the better. That's one of my biggest concerns. it's not called Earthbound, tho. you are planet hopping and resource gathering, it doesn't make sense to settle down and dig in deep on a podunk planet in some backwater galaxy.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:38
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Arnold of Soissons posted:it's not called Earthbound, tho. you are planet hopping and resource gathering, it doesn't make sense to settle down and dig in deep on a podunk planet in some backwater galaxy. Well, except for the game being heavily focused on persistant terrain deformation and building, to the point there is supposedly going to be a progression mechanic tied to building swanky pads for people. Building stuff is fun. Babe Magnet posted:I want progression to be non-linear, to clarify where I stand on this issue. I want to be able to zip over to a high-end planet and scramble around avoiding everything just so I can grab like 4 tier 8 ore and make a nice chair. I'd like that option, at least. The issue is that if that's even possible to do, there will be a method figured out to do it repeatedly and skip 90% of the game. A strict progression system has problems but I would prefer it to a game with progression that is irrelevant once you know the trick.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:59
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Well, with the environmental systems you have to build, I don't think stumbling across a diamond pick on the starting garden world is going to let you magically skip your way to a high tier planet. With the current outline of Biome progression at least. Gotta dig to the center of the earth to get the core chunks to let your ship fly. Then you have to still build the air tank to mine the stuff needed to fix your FTL from the Moon (while presumably wearing your snow soldier gear, meaning you may very well be one shot by enemies on the moon). http://www.chucklefish.org/images/BiomeDiagram.png I had this rambling step by step 'here are various things that will prevent you from sequence breaking even if you had an infinite durability diamond pickaxe at each tier', but honestly I'll let the biome progression plan chart speak for itself. EDIT: I don't mind working my way through tiers. It's whether or not working through said tiers is dragged out artificially that's my worry. Having to dig up enough material to build X thing, that's fine. Having to dig up enough material for X thing, by having to first dig up Y thing (Hi, nightly mode progression from 'dig coal and rocks' to 'dig copper', so you can finally move on to to 'dig iron, gold, and silver'). Drop all your "I need these for progress" things on death. Maybe still have to pay pixels for all progress things, etc. I saw mention I think of them removing SOME of the pixel cost on crafting, but not all. It just starts to feel less like progression and more like 'this is to add gameplay hours' in that kind of situation. Sadly required "If that is how they implement it in next stable" disclaimer here. Can't talk about nightly changes because they might not reflect the final product. Can't talk about dev blogs because the might not reflect the final product. Can't talk about next stable when it eventually comes out because it might not reflect the final product. Can't talk about release when it happens because "They might patch that". Section Z fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 08:10
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OwlFancier posted:Well, except for the game being heavily focused on persistant terrain deformation and building, to the point there is supposedly going to be a progression mechanic tied to building swanky pads for people. If memory serves they specified that the main way to progress is via pixels. Or that's the plan, anyway, and one way to do it is build a bunch of NPC housing and start collecting rent. Really, I think that's a neat idea and shows that they're at least thinking about multiple play styles. Given that the progression is based on pixels you can mine, you can kill poo poo, or you can build stuff. Apparently they also want it so that you can farm all day and get pixels from it.
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Sep 27, 2014 09:56
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Forcing people to dig for ores won't be fun until actually digging through the planet isn't a slow, tedious loving slog. Just for the record.
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Sep 27, 2014 10:47
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All I need for that, ideally, is more open caverns (they get pretty okay once you get far enough) and faster digging speed across the board. The Matter Manipulator changes should help that a lot.
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Sep 27, 2014 12:24
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Yeah, it's not a hard change really. It just needs to be done.
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Sep 27, 2014 12:59
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Yeah, I looked at that progression chart and thought "Hey that actually looks pretty cool" but then I remembered how much mining in this game sucks. I think the problem is both how slow mining is and the shape caves are generated in.
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Sep 27, 2014 14:46
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Devour or Fire posted:I didn't get why people act like following this thread to share my opinions is a huge time investment, but then I realized chucklefish does nothing but post about starbound occasionally and you seem to think they're hard at work so I still say this vitrol and hatred you're spewing goes beyond any level of 'oh the unfinished game I bought access to isn't how I want it to be'. What happened? What happened that pissed you off so much?
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Sep 27, 2014 15:21
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It's called "low-effort trolling".
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Sep 27, 2014 15:46
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E-Tank posted:I still say this vitrol and hatred you're spewing goes beyond any level of 'oh the unfinished game I bought access to isn't how I want it to be'. What happened? What happened that pissed you off so much? In this, a thread about starbound, you cannot have negative opinions about this game that is still unfinished, even though logically the best time to criticize certain aspects and provide input on this game is before things are finalized. "Vitriol and hatred" lol
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Sep 27, 2014 15:55
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Prop Wash posted:In this, a thread about starbound, you cannot have negative opinions about this game that is still unfinished, even though logically the best time to criticize certain aspects and provide input on this game is before things are finalized. "Vitriol and hatred" lol CF: Public alpha is open! Buy the game and shape its development! [later] CF: We're going to do 'Thing' Us: Wow, 'Thing' sounds like it would suck. Yup, in the nightlies, this sucks. Don't do that. White knights: HEY! This is an alpha! No criticizing! It's not done yet! Why all the vitriol????? Us: [Switches to low-grade trolling]
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Sep 27, 2014 15:59
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Evilreaver posted:CF: Public alpha is open! Buy the game and shape its development! I've never said anything about not criticizing. Yeah, I dislike things about the game. I also like things about the game. It is a game. But Devour seems to have decided that the chucklefish devs have personally insulted him/her. Like, ran over their dog, personally insulted. Prop Wash posted:In this, a thread about starbound, you cannot have negative opinions about this game that is still unfinished, even though logically the best time to criticize certain aspects and provide input on this game is before things are finalized. "Vitriol and hatred" lol Again, not saying anything about not criticizing. Look, I'll shut up, not trying to derail, I just was trying to find out why they were so seemingly upset.
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Sep 27, 2014 16:06
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Actually Devour has legitamate complaints and a right to express them + a cool av. It seems to me that it is you who is, in fact, the upset one
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Sep 27, 2014 16:19
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It's nice to see this thread get fired up over the prospect of steering discussion away from the grave chucklefish is working towards and back to those dang crazy trolls who are secretly desperate for full release, just like the good old days.
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Sep 27, 2014 16:24
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Jesus Christ just gently caress already
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Sep 27, 2014 17:05
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Literally Kermit posted:Jesus Christ just gently caress already Still have no clue how people don't just have those two (and some others) on ignore. Is reporting for thread-making GBS threads and trolling a thing anymore? Because holy gently caress. I'll just stick to my honored tradition of not bothering to read a post if there isn't any capitalization or punctuation.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:30
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Saxophone posted:Still have no clue how people don't just have those two (and some others) on ignore. Is reporting for thread-making GBS threads and trolling a thing anymore? Because holy gently caress. Reporting posters now just gets you shamed instead. Which is pretty awesome to be honest considering the amount of "BUT, BUT HE WAS MEAAAAAAAN" reports that exist.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:31
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Slime posted:Reporting posters now just gets you shamed instead. Which is pretty awesome to be honest considering the amount of "BUT, BUT HE WAS MEAAAAAAAN" reports that exist. Sure, and I'm good with that. Unfortunately it probably gets rolled into legitimate reports of poo poo-posting and general idiocy and at best discourages people from bothering (thus lowering the quality of content) and at worst just bringing the whole thread into reddit/4chan levels of conspiracy schlop.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:34
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Saxophone posted:I'll just stick to my honored tradition of not bothering to read a post if there isn't any capitalization or punctuation.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:40
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I hope I'm not making the thread where a group of people decided the best way to respond to criticism is by getting together and "ironically" shitposting for an entire page look bad.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:47
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Devour or Fire posted:I hope I'm not making the thread where a group of people decided the best way to respond to criticism is by getting together and "ironically" shitposting for an entire page look bad. Let's be fair here: it was more like two pages.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:56
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I'd really hate it if my post on the previous page ruined all the people who came to this thread to read kermit's funny captions for the 4chan tapestry comic, or if they didn't get to see babe magnet's funny single word negative puns.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:58
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Devour or Fire posted:I'd really hate it if my post on the previous page ruined all the people who came to this thread to read kermit's funny captions for the 4chan tapestry comic, or if they didn't get to see babe magnet's funny single word negative puns. Hey! Don't sell yourself short! All your posts ruin the thread.  All kidding aside, where was the point you became disillusioned with Starbound? I'm not trying to dismiss your criticisms of Chucklefish, but at some point you did like Starbound, yes? You just seem so angry and sad.
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Sep 27, 2014 18:07
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