|
Ligur posted:Of course the arguments for liberal immigration are the same everywhere. And of course the arguments against are the same. Because the reasons for being if or against are the same as well all ovar da place! lol! Amazing! Most of the world works in the same way! I would have never known! Except that Australia takes a bare fraction of the number of immigrants Sweden does, which given that the level of Chicken Little doomsaying is around the same, might suggest that some hyperbole is involved.
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 14:05
|
|
Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:35 |
|
|
Hyperbole? About immigrants?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 14:07
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:V has been busy digging their own grave for decades now. Don't see why'd they stop here. How so? 5,7 percent is more or less in line with what they usually get (above average even), and unlike MP they gained support - even with FI siphoning votes. A Schyman-like V at 10% or above is highly anomalous, and not something you'd want to judge Vänsterpartiets fortunes on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 15:32
|
|
|
Benito Hitlerstalin posted:How so? 5,7 percent is more or less in line with what they usually get (above average even), and unlike MP they gained support - even with FI siphoning votes. A Schyman-like V at 10% or above is highly anomalous, and not something you'd want to judge Vänsterpartiets fortunes on. Don't have time to elaborate right now, but basically the party leadership is busy alienating the activist support base by turning on said base every time some liberal journo whines about them evil lefties being mean and acting up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 15:41
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Don't have time to elaborate right now, but basically the party leadership is busy alienating the activist support base by turning on said base every time some liberal journo whines about them evil lefties being mean and acting up. Don't really see how V owes anything to anti-democratic movements like AFA and RF.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 15:55
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:I think the election result pretty much proved that while people are heavily opposed to how private-welfare is being run they aren't necessarily interested in seeing it gone, rather it seems like people want stricter regulation. If my hunch is correct then V are digging their own grave by sticking to their shut-it-all-down stance. If people really wanted it all gone they would have voted for V. There have been polls about it and the V position of banning profits in private welfare was supported by a majority. People didn't think the issue was important enough to vote V but that doesn't mean they disagreed. e; and yeah, V is doing fine really. We'll just have to see if FI ends up draining more votes from them. Kainser fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 16:02
|
|
|
Kainser posted:There have been polls about it and the V position of banning profits in private welfare was supported by a majority. People didn't think the issue was important enough to vote V but that doesn't mean they disagreed. That poll asked a yes or no question though. There was no "No, but I'm for stricter control" alternative. You either wanted it completely banned or not touched at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
White Rock posted:See, This is why nobody "takes the debate" with SD supporters. It's bashing your head on a wall, a wall that spews semi overheard unsourced bullshit and racist factoids. Just gonna get a bloody forehead. Hmm, or is it the other way around? If you follow Flashback you probably know what happened when SSU decided to fight rascism on Flashback, which ended up with them either getting banned for ad hominem. Emotional arguments only get you so far, and that is where the debate in Sweden has ended up. http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=3182&artikel=3479663 Simply because the arguments have dried up. First we had the argument that we needed immigrants to replace workers when people retired, which have proven to be false, then we had the argument that says immigrants will render a net profit, where we in the ideal case only goes +/-0 and now we are left with the argument that we save people fleeing from war, where in reality it is only the immigrants that are wealthy enough to pay 100k that comes to Sweden. Expecting all SD supporters to be stupid rascists (even though some clearly are) is pretty ignorant. White Rock posted:So the new government was announced, S + Mp, I guess all the flirting cross the block didn't work out. V seems to want to cooperate, we'll see how much they can pull on the "no for profit welfare" promise. Well, for C and FP to collaborate with S+MP would be the death of them. Hard to critisize them since MP did exactly the same after the last election when they refused to support Alliansen in order to make them a majority ruling coalition.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:Don't really see how V owes anything to anti-democratic movements like AFA and RF. Logically they should owe even less to smug-rear end liberals who're not going to like them anyway and who'll vilify them at every opportunity pretty much no matter what V does. But the current party leadership doesn't seem to have figured that one out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:If you follow Flashback Why the poo poo would anybody (outside of criminals and criminal investigators) follow loving flashback? E: Don't surprise me much you do, though, seeing as your posting is straight up flashback retarded. Cake Smashing Boob fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 19:19
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Logically they should owe even less to smug-rear end liberals who're not going to like them anyway and who'll vilify them at every opportunity pretty much no matter what V does. But the current party leadership doesn't seem to have figured that one out. In my personal opinion the decision to clean up their act has been one of the best decisions they've ever made. For the first time in over a decade they've got a leader who isn't a recovering alcoholic and they've dropped a lot of the ideological proposals that the other parties would never go for in favour of pushing the ones that actually have a chance of turning into policy. I used to be unable to take them seriously but that's changed over the last few years. My interest first peaked when Sjöstedt first started appearing on TV as he was simply some random rear end politician who stared in TV-debates like a crazy person. He eventually got over that initial hump but my interest didn't fade, a lot of what he was saying rung true and unlike his predecessor he actually had a knack for debating. The old V is long gone and I think its for the better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:In my personal opinion the decision to clean up their act has been one of the best decisions they've ever made. For the first time in over a decade they've got a leader who isn't a recovering alcoholic and they've dropped a lot of the ideological proposals that the other parties would never go for in favour of pushing the ones that actually have a chance of turning into policy. I used to be unable to take them seriously but that's changed over the last few years. My interest first peaked when Sjöstedt first started appearing on TV as he was simply some random rear end politician who stared in TV-debates like a crazy person. He eventually got over that initial hump but my interest didn't fade, a lot of what he was saying rung true and unlike his predecessor he actually had a knack for debating. Your personal opinion matters for jack because you're not among the people who are willing to go out and do the hard work required to turn V into an actually effective political party. Also hand on the heart now, would you ever vote V anyway? The new V is making GBS threads its nest and will remain as a poltical nonentity for the foreseeable future. If they behave really well, S might throw them a few table scraps now and then, but probably not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Simply because the arguments have dried up. First we had the argument that we needed immigrants to replace workers when people retired, which have proven to be false, then we had the argument that says immigrants will render a net profit, where we in the ideal case only goes +/-0 and now we are left with the argument that we save people fleeing from war, where in reality it is only the immigrants that are wealthy enough to pay 100k that comes to Sweden. 1. Not everyone who voted for SD knows they're racist. They are, though. (because everyone is a little racist and probably more so if you vote for a racist party) edit: Also, you bring up a good point. We should probably start offering free traveling for poor people to come here if the issue for you is that only wealthy refugees can make it. sensy v2.0 fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Your personal opinion matters for jack because you're not among the people who are willing to go out and do the hard work required to turn V into an actually effective political party. Also hand on the heart now, would you ever vote V anyway? Would it kill you if I said I would? Because yeah that certainly was on my mind in this election, the decision of who to vote for in the national election was not an easy one.  As for turning it into an effective political party that's not really my job. As I mentioned a long way back in the thread I'm already doing my fair share of work for bettering a certain other party. Nothing is stopping you from joining up with V in order to do the same.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 19:52
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:Would it kill you if I said I would? Because yeah that certainly was on my mind in this election, the decision of who to vote for in the national election was not an easy one. Nice. But as we have seen disaffected S voters aren't enough to turn V into a viable political entity, especially not when V are doing the same drat pivot to the right that S did twenty-five years ago. If there ever was an election where this should have worked then it's now, but a gain of 0.12% is so goddamn unimpressive that it's not even funny. Disregarding the results and looking at the matter from a purely strategic perspective, V is abandoning the actual radical leftist voters in order to court disaffected left-leaning S voters. This is literally a losing strategy from the get-go. The absolute best they can hope to accomplish is to have V cannibalize part of S while bleeding off the radical left to tiny no-chancers like F!. Tell me, how the gently caress is this supposed to shift the political balance of power towards the left bloc? Even in theory? Also you won't go work for V, and as I've said this is exactly what will doom new V, a lack of young and engaged people who are willing to spend time and effort to build and maintain a functioning political organization. There are remarkably few leftists who are willing to go work their butts off for S-lite, especially when the party leadership seems more interested in making GBS threads on them than anything else the moment that some Op-ed in DN feels like yelling about them dang darn leftist kids or something. And if you think that many attracted S-lite people are going to be young and engaged people who are willing to spend time and effort to build a political organization, I have a nice bridge from Malmö to Köpenhamn to sell to you. So all in all, V is busy making GBS threads where they eat and will cease to be a viable political party in a few election cycles at worst or accomplish jack all at best, all due to short-sightedness and incompetent strategy from the party leadership. Xoidanor posted:As for turning it into an effective political party that's not really my job. As I mentioned a long way back in the thread I'm already doing my fair share of work for bettering a certain other party. Nothing is stopping you from joining up with V in order to do the same. Actually I'm kinda from the wrong country to do that. I'm speaking from an academic point of view here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Nice. But as we have seen disaffected S voters aren't enough to turn V into a viable political entity, especially not when V are doing the same drat pivot to the right that S did twenty-five years ago. If there ever was an election where this should have worked then it's now, but a gain of 0.12% is so goddamn unimpressive that it's not even funny. You know what's funny? If this was 10 years ago we would be having this same discussion about Reinfeldt reforming M towards the left end of the political spectrum. Muf was practically dragged kicking and screaming trough the process and when the 2006 election turned out a success it knocked the wind out of their sail. Many of the young members left the party never to return. A lot of them were pilfered by C who has been moving further right ever since Maud Olofsson took over the reigns of the party and joined up with Cuf. Of course the circumstances of V are significantly different but it's still funny regardless. It didn't kill M then and I really doubt it will kill V now. Every political party with the exception of SD and F! are losing members in their youth groups, it's a sign of the times. What I'm trying to say is that you're looking the election results the wrong way. Let me count for you the parties that had a positive result in this election despite of SD doubling their total voters. S, V and F!. Everyone else went backwards, only the truly leftist parties increased their shares. That's a total of 3.1% voters voting left that didn't 2010. It may sound unimpressive but that's only if you ignore the rise of SD. I realise it's not what you hoped for but you'd have to be blind to miss that things actually are moving in the right direction, even if it isn't nearly as fast as we'd like. Also stop seeing voters as tied to the left/right spectrum. The middle class in particular can jump ship over the smallest of things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 21:03
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:You know what's funny? If this was 10 years ago we would be having this same discussion about Reinfeldt reforming M towards the left end of the political spectrum. Muf was practically dragged kicking and screaming trough the process and when the 2006 election turned out a success it knocked the wind out of their sail. Many of the young members left the party never to return. A lot of them were pilfered by C who has been moving further right ever since Maud Olofsson took over the reigns of the party and joined up with Cuf. Of course the circumstances of V are significantly different but it's still funny regardless. It didn't kill M then and I really doubt it will kill V now. Every political party with the exception of SD and F! are losing members in their youth groups, it's a sign of the times. Hm, yes. If we look at a political party during entirely different socioeconomic conditions, on a different spot on the ideological spectrum, that has an entirely different support base and party structure and also recruits its driving members form entirely different places that sure is indicative of how V will perform in the future. And yes, if we ignore the literal far-right racist party things sure are moving in the right direction. Also it's truly impressive that the leftist parties that actually made it into Riksdagen got less than half a percent more votes than last time. In fact this is literally what I'm talking about when I say that V is bleeding votes to no-chancers. Seriously man, I made clar points here. At least engage those instead of spouting platitudes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
What points do you have in mind? Your theory that V shoving the radical side of ung vänster the door will erode their youth base and cause future ruin? Your opinion that V shouldn't be aiming for the political middle because you believe that this will only lead to the poaching of S-voters? I don't agree based on the precedent and circumstances I mentioned. We're both just engaging in baseless speculation so there's really not much more to add.  EDIT: As for your question of "how the gently caress is this supposed to shift the political balance of power towards the left bloc?" I honestly I couldn't care less. The sooner Swedish parties stop thinking in terms of political blocs the better. Broad co-operation over political borders or sole rule are from my experience the only effective ways to govern institutions in democracies. Everything else leads to short-term thinking. The Alliance only worked because it was ruled with an iron fist. Negotiations were handled in advance and they were final. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Sep 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2014 21:57
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Hmm, or is it the other way around? Hahaha hey cardiac, good to see you. You know I've been pretty good with following up your your avpixlat link dumps with sourced responses, but you tend to disappear afterwards. And also it's late. But here is a perfect example of what I'm taking about! quote:First we had the argument that we needed immigrants to replace workers when people retired, which have proven to be false Unsourced claim nr 1. quote:then we had the argument that says immigrants will render a net profit, where we in the ideal case only goes +/-0 Unsourced claim nr 2. quote:we save people fleeing from war, where in reality it is only the immigrants that are wealthy enough to pay 100k that comes to Sweden. See you can't just declare an argument dead without no backup. As I've said before, if I theoretically believed that cutting immigration would save a third of the budget and was the key too lowering unemployment and fixing integration and the economy ( like in Sd imagination ): I would be right there with you. I'd be running naked down the street with a tiny Swedish flag up my butt. I still don't see Sd s politics doing anything but maybe, maaaybe making it so there is no beggar outside of the coop. Wooooooo
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Also you won't go work for V, and as I've said this is exactly what will doom new V, a lack of young and engaged people who are willing to spend time and effort to build and maintain a functioning political organization. There are remarkably few leftists who are willing to go work their butts off for S-lite, especially when the party leadership seems more interested in making GBS threads on them than anything else the moment that some Op-ed in DN feels like yelling about them dang darn leftist kids or something. And if you think that many attracted S-lite people are going to be young and engaged people who are willing to spend time and effort to build a political organization, I have a nice bridge from Malmö to Köpenhamn to sell to you. If this is about the Allard case, what exactly should V have done?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 09:17
|
|
|
Stefu posted:If this is about the Allard case, what exactly should V have done? poo poo, only a month later Kärrtorp happened where V supported those who defended the demo with force. A couple of those were members of RF. So yeah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 09:22
|
|
|
I'm working on a new OP, but in the meantime feel free to PYF political music in a scandinavian language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOWyaXJ50IU&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJgy3j5QuUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRK-hSKgE7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFk_bDFnj4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oiqadbMvBY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48eX6a8nsyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyZFNbfpSxo Yeah I listen to dad music, deal with it. Feel free to contribute to this here spotify playlist though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 09:58
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:I'm working on a new OP, but in the meantime feel free to PYF political music in a scandinavian language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxfztPJYzHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgxLOgLDqmM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FyWd954_VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FyWd954_VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX59IkopWD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB-K92DnUS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3O5ZobWB3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPErJPq-VEw e: oops didn't see the "political" in that. eh, gently caress it. the first two are kinda poltical, rest are just norwegian and one danish song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZg2pEokcFw <--- poltiical in that its about workers and communists used to (and probably still do) like them Randarkman fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Sep 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 10:10
|
|
|
Rutkowski posted:Not expell a dude who distanced himself from their offensive moves but supported their demonstration-guard which, as has been proven before and after, is rather neccessary. Except he didn't really distance himself. Just like they themselves do he references to the violence as "self-defence", something which it rarely ever actually turn out to be and that's not even mentioning what RF are up to when they're not busy attacking people in the street. Feel free to romanticize what the movement does as much as you want but the expulsion was called for. Anti-democratic sentiment fostering in ung vänster has been a problem for quite a while and it does hurt the main parties chances of actually becoming relevant.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 10:18
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jHq2r6BQA0 Comedy option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELqQs_95kL8
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 10:19
|
|
|
A couple good ones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0dpsB5lmk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAw2DBwtALQ
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 10:33
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:Except he didn't really distance himself. Just like they themselves do he references to the violence as "self-defence", something which it rarely ever actually turn out to be and that's not even mentioning what RF are up to when they're not busy attacking people in the street. Feel free to romanticize what the movement does as much as you want but the expulsion was called for. Anti-democratic sentiment fostering in ung vänster has been a problem for quite a while and it does hurt the main parties chances of actually becoming relevant. And that UG episode is so full off complete bullshit. Those two attacked a year ago? yeah they're nazis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 10:43
|
|
|
Rutkowski posted:Joel knifed the nazi as the nazy was attacking someone else so yeah in the very literal sense it wasn't self-defense but since they considered acts not involving a knife in the same stage and in the same style self-defence it's a pretty bullshit sentencing. If Joel had been unarmed it would be a lot more questionable but he wasn't. He intentionally brought a knife to a public gathering which he then used to stab someone in the back. While it's hard to prove intent it's easy to conclude by looking at his criminal history that he brought that knife because he wanted to hurt someone. Rutkowski posted:And that UG episode is so full off complete bullshit. Those two attacked a year ago? yeah they're nazis. Yeah you're going to have to need to source that claim and while you're at it explain to me how it's defensible to attack people in street even if they're nazis. The video clearly showed them being chased for quite a distance, explain to me how that could possibly be justified. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 11:06
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:What points do you have in mind? Your theory that V shoving the radical side of ung vänster the door will erode their youth base and cause future ruin? Your opinion that V shouldn't be aiming for the political middle because you believe that this will only lead to the poaching of S-voters? I don't agree based on the precedent and circumstances I mentioned. We're both just engaging in baseless speculation so there's really not much more to add. If you'd actually address any of those points it would be nice, yes. Also if you're going to pull the old "well that's just your opinion, man" in the future, please let me know in advance so that I don't have to waste my time. Also the bloc politics is a fact that you'll have to live with. Sorry if it offends your political sensibilities. Stefu posted:If this is about the Allard case, what exactly should V have done? Not roll over to appease people who are never going to like them anyway? That's a losing move by every metric except if you're trying to reach the Liberal Moral High Ground, and we all know how well that tends to turn out for the left. Xoidanor posted:Except he didn't really distance himself. Just like they themselves do he references to the violence as "self-defence", something which it rarely ever actually turn out to be quote:När det gäller rubriceringen av brottet har tingsrätten särskilt tagit hänsyn till att knivhuggen utdelats i ett läge där deltagarna i demonstrationen haft rätt till nödvärn i förhållande till angriparna från SMR-gruppen, säger rådmannen Fredrik Nydén, rättens ordförande vid förhandlingen. quote:Enligt åklagaren gjorde demonstranterna sig skyldiga till våldsamt upplopp på torget, där Svenska motståndsrörelsen började gå till attack. Men tingsrätten slår fast att de hade rätt att freda sig där. So how isn't this a case of self-defense? The court literally says as much. Xoidanor posted:and that's not even mentioning what RF are up to when they're not busy attacking people in the street. Feel free to romanticize what the movement does as much as you want but the expulsion was called for. Anti-democratic sentiment fostering in ung vänster has been a problem for quite a while and it does hurt the main parties chances of actually becoming relevant. What anti-democratic sentiment exactly, and how is is going to hurt V more than its current policies?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 11:06
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Not roll over to appease people who are never going to like them anyway? That's a losing move by every metric except if you're trying to reach the Liberal Moral High Ground, and we all know how well that tends to turn out for the left. Yeah because in democracies you get lots of things done by appealing to small and radical segments of the voters.  I mean poo poo were you asleep during the rise of M, F! and SD? They all grew by getting new leaders that prioritised dialling down on the crazy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 11:15
|
|
|
So are you ever going to address my actual points and analysis or are you going to keep throwing out shoutouts to entirely different parties in entirely different circumstances and hope that people won't notice that you're bullshitting?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 11:22
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:If Joel had been unarmed it would be a lot more questionable but he wasn't. He intentionally brought a knife to a public gathering which he then used to stab someone in the back. While it's hard to prove intent it's easy to conclude by looking at his criminal history that he brought that knife because he wanted to hurt someone. quote:Yeah you're going to have to need to source that claim and while you're at it explain to me how it's defensible to attack people in street even if they're nazis. The video clearly showed them being chased for quite a distance, explain to me how that could possibly be justified. First of all, they wore the totenkopf logo of the ultra club Northern Brigade. NB is a very political supporter group that's pro-fascist and to be allowed to carry their poo poo(and they do enforce this) you need to be a fascist yourself. There's other ultra groups that's apolitical for that same football club so to claim ignorance on what the logo stand for(which is probably the most famous nazi logo after the swastika) and then claim ignorance in joining a very politically inspired ultra group is bullshit. And then they just HAPPEN to wear these clothes while watching the nazi demo(fun fact, they give three different stories on what they were doing when they were attacked that day. One in UG, one in the FUP and one at the trial) that was the big news item for at least a week before it happened? Yeah, likely story. And if you'd like justifications on antifa militancy(because I'm dead-set on having to do that to people who do NOT live under constant threat due to their ethnicity) then there's a thread in this forum where it's very thouroughly debated over and over, I linked to one of my posts in that thread earlier in this thread. Cerebral Bore, do you got PMs?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 11:58
|
|
|
Oh yeah the "totally not a nazi" dude from Alingsås who had the ammoniac poured into his apartment(an action I do not support because they didn't check to see if non-nazis were in the apartment at the time and the mistake is one the perpetrators have admitted and apologized, resulting in a pretty huge change of tactics and research from them)? He is a nazi, an organized one too. He was one of three nazis who attacked my uncle in retaliation for me moving out of Alingsås. He, on his facebook picture the very same day the episode aired, wore a nazi t-shirt. They also conviniently forgot to mention that Anna Jonsson from Västerås became a target for a reason. No, not just because she is a nazi(even though she said she is not despite trying to get elected for SvP and Josefsson totally bought it) but because she was arrested while driving knives, batons, teargas and other weaponry to a group of nazis who were planning to attack a couple of RFers that very night. She got sentenced for it and everything! In fact, the nazi concert a coalition of antifas attacked was put up to gather funds for her to pay her fine from that very sentencing! Josefsson is full of poo poo and went into the show with a political agenda(he used to be a syndicalist but was shunned for being an rear end in a top hat and is now... not a fan of the non-parliament left wing) and he lied and bullshitted around the truth to ensure his agenda was pushed through.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 12:05
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:If you'd actually address any of those points it would be nice, yes. quote:Your theory that V shoving the radical side of ung vänster the door will erode their youth base and cause future ruin? A party that is doing what you want is C. CuF and members from CuF has basically been ruling the agenda since 2002 in pushing them further right and as you can see in both 2010 and 2014 election result it's not nearly as good of a plan as you think it is. quote:Your opinion that V shouldn't be aiming for the political middle because you believe that this will only lead to the poaching of S-voters? But no you're right, why should they appeal to a larger voting group?. It's not like that has ever worked for any other political entity in Swedish politics. Oh wait gently caress it totally has, on multiple occasions, in the very last decade. It's almost like politics are about suggesting solutions that a majority of the population can agree to or something. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 12:09
|
|
|
Rutkowski posted:Cerebral Bore, do you got PMs? Unfortunately not. Xoidanor posted:Every party is currently having their youth base eroded with the exception of new parties. As I mentioned it's an issue that every party except SD and F! are facing and M did the exact same thing V did 10 years ago and came out fine. Their organisation is not entirely different and that they hold another spot on the political scale isn't really relevant. All parties have used youth organisations as training camps for future political candidates, the process is practically identical across all parties except SD. In Swedish politics this is something that's going away, at the current pace youth organisations as a thing will be gone almost entirely in less then a decade. It's a problem for the future sure but it's not one that V faces alone. V would have to be idiotic to continue sacrificing their public appeal to try appealing to the small but very vocal minority that is ung vänster. Your argument would have had some weight back in the 80's when youth organisations in general had between 2-20 times as many members but they don't anymore. You're still doing this thing were you completely ignore the differences between parties and political situations and assume that doing the same thing will lead to the same outcome. This is still absurd, it doesn't work that way. M and S are in a special position because they have huge institutional advantages and big donors holding their back. M can survive telling Muf to shove it because at the end of the day they could poach an entirely new generation of politicos from the capitalist class with relatively little trouble. V can't do that. V is entirely reliant on its activist base to not only provide future candidates, but also to literally run their political machine. You seem to think that political campaigns and parties somehow run themselves, but this is very much not the case. What V is pissing away is not just the vote of whatever black bloc caricature you have in your head, they're literally pissing away theyr ability to function as a political organization. Xoidanor posted:V need to surpass at least MP if they want more influence. Appealing to the radical left is not going to make that happen, there's just no way. You know those ~200,000 voters that F! got? Where'd you think they came from? If V had caught up just half of them, they'd bloody well be ahead of MP already. They're currently not appealing to a larger voting group, or at least not to a sufficiently larger voting group than what they're bleeding off, hence the glorious increase of 0.15 loving percent at the voting booth. In a goddamn political climate where over half of the swedish people literally agree the most with V on key issues. Face it bub, V is run by idiots and incompetents. Their strategy is a failure and its only effect will be that people like you can feel righteous about themselves.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 12:57
|
|
|
White Rock posted:Hahaha hey cardiac, good to see you. You know I've been pretty good with following up your your avpixlat link dumps with sourced responses, but you tend to disappear afterwards. And also it's late. But here is a perfect example of what I'm taking about! So did you give me my nice avatar? Just want to know who to thank? Also I just checked your post history in this thread, and I can't find any sourced links disproving my links. But I might have missed them? Also, LOL at a thread defending Joel Bjurströmer Almgren. If you are 34 years and still find the need to wear a knife and fight nazis in the streets, I would say you have made a number of stupid decisions in your life. You people are aware that he could just as easily have been a nazi if he hang around with other people. History is full of people like him ie young violent men without hope. White Rock posted:Unsourced claim nr 1. Well, hello someone that have been following public debate. Also, I have supplied links for these statements in this thread taken from varying sources including Svt, DN and other places. Of course I read Fria Tider, Flashback and Avpixlat, since it provides additional information and typically all articles are sourced there. Our newspapers are hardly unbiased, which the treatment of Arnstad, Researchgruppen, SUM, MMRK and now lately one boss at SR clearly shows. Not that it matters in the long run, since in a couple of years a number of major Swedish newspapers will be dead. White Rock posted:As I've said before, if I theoretically believed that cutting immigration would save a third of the budget and was the key too lowering unemployment and fixing integration and the economy ( like in Sd imagination ): I would be right there with you. Cutting immigration or rather getting immigration down to something approaching European levels, is going to happen sooner or later within the next 4 years, regardless of SD. Inside sources within MV speaks of a coming meltdown. We have something like 12k people in storage just waiting on getting apartments. But I totally agree with you on SDs economic policies. They are just LOL and consists of wishful thinking. Regardless, we are taking on more immigrants than we can integrate by work and apartments and that is a purely political decision. The levels can be adjusted by political decisions which is clearly evident by the number of immigrants to our Scandinavian neighbours. If this situation continues we will probably have a French situation with immgrants into their third generation of unemployment and being outside of main society.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 13:11
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Of course I read Fria Tider, Flashback and Avpixlat, since it provides additional information and typically all articles are sourced there. Our newspapers are hardly unbiased loving hell, how did your head not explode after writing that? "Mainstream media is too biased[citation needed] so I'll read Fria Tider and Avpixlat instead!" Cardiac posted:Well, hello someone that have been following public debate. sensy v2.0 fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Sep 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 15:16
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:I'm working on a new OP, but in the meantime feel free to PYF political music in a scandinavian language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZvNOrDOtI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvD_ngn4nJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0r4qLbsmw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3sAIKbbqps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AewJWvUMpZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZirYtrHbjw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzD_lphjzvI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNKH78VWoyc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAQFaxyorss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BdbRf97rkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL_b0D1jZeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_XI3ETA1vQ
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:35 |
|
|
sensy v2.0 posted:loving hell, how did your head not explode after writing that? Right Wing Source criticism: As long as it's biased in a way we like it's cool.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:09
|
|