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RunAndGun posted:You really think so? There was no real Monster threat, as you point out, but the poison-everyone-on-Earth thing was still a Threat. In my opinion. Oh I think we might be talking at cross-purposes perhaps? Or that I misunderstood the initial comments at least. I was referring to the idea of there not being an ALIEN menace, as opposed to the lack of any menace/threat at all. Which is something that the show hasn't really had since the last pure historical way back during Peter Davison's time in the role (apart from Listen and, technically speaking The Crimson Horror). docbeard posted:That said, I think what you said before, that it would have been better had the "threat" been some other sort of problem the Doctor had to solve rather than a rampaging alien menace he was trying to head off, is a pretty good point. It would have actually been quite neat if it turned out that the Doctor himself was the alien menace, in fact. Rather than trying to stop paraplegic Garrus, maybe his frequent visits to that area had built up Artron energy etc (which is after all what attracted the monster in the first place) which was now causing potential temporal instability, and the Doctor was using those mines to focus and gather it all up so he could safely remove the "spillage" - thus making himself the caretaker in practice as well as in name. You could still have Danny get involved and inadvertently cause a mess, and you could even still have THE FLIP while only making a few tweaks to the story.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:47
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Noxville posted:This was annoying as hell, mostly because of how wearyingly one-note it was for the entire episode. The anti-militarism that Doctor Who rather constantly puts off is very off-putting to me, to be honest. Are we really supposed to believe that having a pro-active military is a bad thing in a universe where there were something like 30 times in 50 years where all that stood between Earth and its total conquest was one man in a silly outfit? What if the silly outfit man was sick one time or off on another planet? We'd be totally hosed without Danny Pinks and Lethbridge-Stewarts.
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Sep 28, 2014 22:41
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The_Doctor posted:I'm sad there were no Remembrance references. Would it have killed them to have some burrrrnmarks on the playground still? < Given that Remembrance was set 50 years ago, I'd be a little concerned about Coal Hill's maintenance budget if there were still burn marks anywhere.
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Sep 28, 2014 22:45
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OH MY GOD IT's OLLIE REEDER I forgot Chris Addison had been announced as being in this series. That thing with Missy or whatever seems to have more potential to go somewhere interesting now that there seems to be an organisation as opposed to just one lone person. Anyway, I liked that episode. Was a bit like The Lodger in places I thought. Couple more good scenes like that and Capaldi is definitely going to overtake Smith as my favourite Doctor. Also Danny's flip was awesome, and the kid was pretty great as well. Also I loved how loud and dumb and clanky that robot was.  He looked so daft just sailing off into space in the end. How does he even propel himself in space?e: also also Space Dad McDragon fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 22:51
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Burkion posted:It'd be like if the Doctor was suddenly racist, or suddenly was sexist. being in the military is nothing like belonging to a particular sex or ethnicity.
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Sep 28, 2014 23:04
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Cliff Racer posted:The anti-militarism that Doctor Who rather constantly puts off is very off-putting to me, to be honest. Are we really supposed to believe that having a pro-active military is a bad thing in a universe where there were something like 30 times in 50 years where all that stood between Earth and its total conquest was one man in a silly outfit? What if the silly outfit man was sick one time or off on another planet? We'd be totally hosed without Danny Pinks and Lethbridge-Stewarts. e: wrong christmas special Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 23:32
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Cliff Racer posted:The anti-militarism that Doctor Who rather constantly puts off is very off-putting to me, to be honest. Are we really supposed to believe that having a pro-active military is a bad thing in a universe where there were something like 30 times in 50 years where all that stood between Earth and its total conquest was one man in a silly outfit? Yes, having a pro-active military is a bad thing. Irony Be My Shield posted:This is likely to be a major moral theme of this series, yeah. The Doctor would argue that militaristic types will often make it worse though (like they would have in this episode, and like they arguably did in The Runaway Bride). And in The Silurians and The Sea Devils and Battlefield and The Curse of Fenric and Remembrance of the Daleks and loads and loads of others MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 23:33
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Basically the robot in this was like the Iron Giant. Military force would make it go postal and also wouldn't be able to stop it. So yeah, soldiers and stuff equals bad for keeping the planet intact this episode. fake edit: ha ha, he even flies into space in the end.
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Sep 28, 2014 23:36
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I wonder what Twelve would do if he met Martha again. Since, in my opinion, Ten's influence is what caused her from being a civie Doctor to 100% military (UNIT).
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Sep 28, 2014 23:50
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Looking forward to an episode where the antagonists are a human army attacking aliens
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Sep 28, 2014 23:54
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Looking forward to an episode where the antagonists are a human army attacking aliens Silurians aren't aliens!
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Sep 28, 2014 23:59
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Cliff Racer posted:The anti-militarism that Doctor Who rather constantly puts off is very off-putting to me, to be honest. Are we really supposed to believe that having a pro-active military is a bad thing in a universe where there were something like 30 times in 50 years where all that stood between Earth and its total conquest was one man in a silly outfit? What if the silly outfit man was sick one time or off on another planet? We'd be totally hosed without Danny Pinks and Lethbridge-Stewarts. Wait a minute, it's a surprise to you that the guy who literally ran away from his society because it was too dull and stifling, and who is constantly trying to find non-violent solutions to problems, has a problem with organisations that train their people to obey and conform rather than think and be individual, and that exist to provide bespoke violence on demand? What were you expecting him to think?
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Sep 29, 2014 00:08
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That as history's greatest mass murderer he should have the good grace to pity those that can only aspire to be as competent at violence as he is.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:10
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Looking forward to an episode where the antagonists are a human army attacking aliens Isn't that broadly what The Doctor's Daughter was? Though it wasn't quite that one-sided, obviously. In any event, I'm convinced they're building to something with the Doctor's current attitude toward soldiers. He seems to specifically have a problem with the 'mindlessly follow orders' aspect of soldiering, which weirdly is exactly the problem that Danny appears to have with the Doctor. That in particular isn't out of keeping with the Doctor's general ethos, but he's never reduced all soldiers to that before, and I'm curious to find out why. Maybe it's optimism talking, but, given both Moffat and Capaldi's long-standing fandom, there's no way they don't know that this attitude is something of a departure for the Doctor
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Sep 29, 2014 00:12
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Looking forward to an episode where the antagonists are a human army attacking aliens 
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Sep 29, 2014 00:12
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Jerusalem posted:Silurians aren't aliens! Are too! They're just not extraterrestrial ones!
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Sep 29, 2014 00:19
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Martha Jones went from Almost A Doctor to a UNIT soldier, right? Weirder poo poo has happened than Danny. The Flip made me laugh out loud because anyone who has watched a lot of Power Rangers has seen a million like it. Although it was easier to take when The Doctor is wearing a Ghostbusters backpack at the same time. Also, I dislike that every threat can destroy the entire Earth. Isn't a school of people worth saving just on it's own?
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Sep 29, 2014 00:36
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Craptacular! posted:Martha Jones went from Almost A Doctor to a UNIT soldier, right? Weirder poo poo has happened than Danny. It can destroy a planet... but can't hit a guy doing a  flip over its head.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:39
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Craptacular! posted:Martha Jones went from Almost A Doctor to a UNIT soldier, right? Weirder poo poo has happened than Danny. That was particularly a problem during the RTD years where every single story set on Earth seemingly needed the threat to include the entire planet. It's an unnecessary raising of the stakes that either makes less sweeping threats seem somehow mundane, or causes the stakes on "big" stories to be raised to absurd levels - which is how we end up with a million billion Daleks threatening to wipe out not just reality but ALL realities.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:41
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I figured its targetting systems were all hosed up from so long being dormant, hence why it was an awful shot.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:43
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Jerusalem posted:That was particularly a problem during the RTD years where every single story set on Earth seemingly needed the threat to include the entire planet. But they also had an episode where the Doctor was trying to save a few dozen people in a Church. Or a small group of well to do's on a space cruise or an Observation Deck. RTD had giant global threats once or twice a season, because he liked to show the UK (often verbally) putting Americans in the corner and being the world's chief diplomat and high commander.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:47
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Muppetjedi posted:Did someone say Jo Grant? CobiWann posted:The Pertwee cosplay continues! "Yes Katie." ... "Well no, it's not for the show per se." ... "It's...um, something Peter wanted. Just come to the set, OK?" PriorMarcus posted:She's teaching at the same school they worked at and the reason the alien robot was there this episode was the high amount of TARDIS landings over the many years. Yep. Artron energy from multiple landings in 63, a Dalek time incursion the same year, and the Hand of Omega chilling for a few months in a cemetery nearby. Not to mention the residual artron energy from the bodies of Clara, Ian and Barbara who time traveled so much and then worked at the school for years. It was interesting how the Doctor straight up lied when asked "did you bring this alien threat here?" Because he sure as hell did.  Ms Boods posted:That's what I meant -- I kept telling Mr Boods, 'Why doesn't the Doctor just ask Ian if it's ok to place his little gizmos all over the school?' and 'Gah, it would make everyone's life so much easier if they just got hold of Ian,' &c. I think the best thing would be for the Doctor to come to some emotional personal crises in his friendship with Clara, and Ian pops up to give him some advice as someone who knew him from when he was much younger. The_Doctor posted:I'm sad there were no Remembrance references. Would it have killed them to have some burrrrnmarks on the playground still? < I think they did a good job of finding a remarkably similar building. Overall I liked the episode. It does seem like they're going with the Doctor as "Space-Dad who wants Clara to date someone like himself, who is worthy" instead of "Doctor is jealous goony guy in love with Clara." The Matt Smith ringer was pretty funny.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:53
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Oh no. The nice lady who played Evelyn Smythe died. I've only heard two or three of the audios that have her in them but she was good. 
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Sep 29, 2014 00:56
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Oh gently caress. gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress. The is the first news of an actor death that's really hurt in a long time.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:03
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Aww, that is awful. Part of me is hoping the line from yesterday's episode about the Doctor having had a teacher like Clara was a reference to Evelyn. It probably wasn't, but Clara calling him out on endangering the school and not being honest had shades of Evelyn angrily lecturing Six on consequences.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:20
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This episode suffered from anti-Deep-Breath: Great up front, lousy in the back. I liked it right up until the moment the Doctor and Danny started shouting at each other in the TARDIS and it was all downhill from there. gently caress. Pouring some chocolate out on the sidewalk in her memory. 
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Sep 29, 2014 01:25
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SirSamVimes posted:I figured its targetting systems were all hosed up from so long being dormant, hence why it was an awful shot.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:28
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Dammit, and I was just listening to "The Marian Conspiracy" last week. Really hoping the drop in Doctor Who: Legacy would be Courtney the Disruptive Influence, but alas. Just a costume for 12.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:29
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Boogaleeboo posted:That as history's greatest mass murderer he should have the good grace to pity those that can only aspire to be as competent at violence as he is. Confronting and (attempting to) accepting that is probably a major part of it too.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:33
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Astroman posted:I think the best thing would be for the Doctor to come to some emotional personal crises in his friendship with Clara, and Ian pops up to give him some advice as someone who knew him from when he was much younger. DoctorWhat posted:All contrivances aside, the argument that a potentially interesting plot-and-character line should be abandoned on the basis of character interactions from TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AGO (Battlefield) is absolutely bonkers. It's the worst kind of fannish canon-obsession. I'm not suggesting that the Doctor should suddenly be pro-military but his broad hostility to Danny who is a Maths teacher doesn't seem motivated by prior events. If anything he should be happy to hear that Danny put down his guns and is an educator. docbeard posted:In any event, I'm convinced they're building to something with the Doctor's current attitude toward soldiers.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:34
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Oh, Evelyn.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:57
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Thought some aspects of the sitcom were funny, but lost all goodwill towards the episode the second the doctor and Danny started interacting. I don't care the context, I don't wanna watch a show where an old white guy just can't loving believe a black guy could be a math teacher. (OK, maybe context could help it, but the context is so god drat stupid it doesn't)
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Sep 29, 2014 02:05
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I just... I didn't fuckin' need this news today. Oh, Maggie. You were the best. The Doctor's greatest companion. At least she got a wonderful send-off story. It's going to be so very hard to listen to it, now. At least her long illness is finally over.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:14
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FreezingInferno posted:Oh no. The nice lady who played Evelyn Smythe died. drat
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Sep 29, 2014 02:44
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Really good episode. I think they've all been really good since the Robin Hood episode.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:09
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CuddleChunks posted:Who is this Ian dude supposed to be?   
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Sep 29, 2014 03:23
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While the Doctor had reasonably good experiences with UNIT in his earlier incarnations, this is a post-Time War Doctor. A war through time and space that saw species and planets altered, destroyed, or completely removed from the timeline. A war where soldiers led by Time Lords and Daleks were tossed at each other without care. Into the jaws of the Nightmare Child, while the Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres led by the Could've Been King, and the Horde of Travesties laid waste to everything in their path. This is a Doctor that had tried really hard to forget about his part in the Time War, only to have it brought back to life in front of him in Day of the Doctor. The next episode is Time of Doctor, in which he wages a one-man war across hundreds of years, against waves of soldiers from every race bent on destroying him and the Timelords. And then he regenerates. I do think the Doctor doesn't "hate" soldiers as much as he claims, any more than he really thinks Clara is as ugly as he implies with his sarcastic remarks. He just can't deal with them because of his own (very recent and recently re-lived) war experiences. So he pushes them away.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:38
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I really liked that one. The Doctor was a dick, but it felt like he had a reason to be. Instead of being really jealous of the Doctor, Mickey-style, you can really identify with Danny's perspective. The Doctor does seem like the aristocracy and a general to those who are savvy, but of course being called either is going to really anger him and he has a chip on his shoulder about both. He likes Courtney because she's probably just the sort of student he was. Clara feels like the aristocracy to him. Of course being reminded of the fact that he barely passed his tests and subsequently being told he's the arrogant lord is going to aggravate him to the point of losing his temper. I liked what Danny said at the end a lot. It was basically "That guy makes me uncomfortable and if he starts pushing your boundaries and you don't cut him off, I have to leave, because I can't just watch it happen." The Matt Smith joke professor was hilarious, Peter Capaldi is still pulling off a baffling mix of every person who's played the Doctor before but especially a sort of Four-Six hybrid. I continue to like Clara and I hope we get to see more of all the three of them together and watch their relationship develop into something that at least borders on healthy. Still not on board with the weird afterlife story, but whatever.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:50
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SimplyCosmic posted:While the Doctor had reasonably good experiences with UNIT in his earlier incarnations, this is a post-Time War Doctor. A war through time and space that saw species and planets altered, destroyed, or completely removed from the timeline. A war where soldiers led by Time Lords and Daleks were tossed at each other without care. Into the jaws of the Nightmare Child, while the Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres led by the Could've Been King, and the Horde of Travesties laid waste to everything in their path. Except that since the Time War (i.e. the revivial) the dctor has interacted with soldiers literally dozens of times that we have seen but, until Capaldi, he has never been outright hostile to an individual guy just because of his occupation (or former occupation). In fact we have seen the doctor working with soldiers in an amicable fashion loads of times. Being a dick to the guy and not trusting him before getting to know him is fair enough, but they are laying on this "I hate soldiers, blahghblahg" thing to thick and it has come out of nowhere. Apart from this I am really enjoying Capaldi doctor 
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Sep 29, 2014 03:52
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Mr Beens posted:Except that since the Time War (i.e. the revivial) the dctor has interacted with soldiers literally dozens of times that we have seen but, until Capaldi, he has never been outright hostile to an individual guy just because of his occupation (or former occupation). In fact we have seen the doctor working with soldiers in an amicable fashion loads of times. Here's my theory: the Doctor isn't just coming out of a "post Time War" state of mind. Let's not forget we don't really know him all that well as of late...he spent hundreds of years on Trenzalore, almost more of his life then we've ever seen a span of in all his previous televised/audio adventures. In that time, he was a Toymaker using non-violence to fend off attacks by thousands of soldiers of hundreds of races attacking innocent people. It's fair to say his feelings on soldiers may have changed since the last time he worked with UNIT or saw Captain Jack. For us, it's been just a year; for him it's been hundreds of years. thousandcranes posted:Thought some aspects of the sitcom were funny, but lost all goodwill towards the episode the second the doctor and Danny started interacting. I don't care the context, I don't wanna watch a show where an old white guy just can't loving believe a black guy could be a math teacher. (OK, maybe context could help it, but the context is so god drat stupid it doesn't) Then don't watch it. So because Danny is black, the Doctor can't have any negative feelings towards him whatsoever? The Doctor didn't dislike Danny because he was black, it was because he was a soldier. Would it have been better if Danny was white? You are no doubt going to respond with  about how "YOU CAN'T JUST CAST BLACK PEOPLE IN NEGATIVE ROLES REGARDLESS OF CONTEXT BECAUSE OF THE INHERENT PROBLEMATIC ISSUES IN THE REAL WORLD AND THE STEREOTYPES THIS CASTING REINFORCES!"But consider this: if the character of Danny Pink was developed without regard to race as a "former soldier who the Doctor dislikes" he would have to be cast as white in order to make your concerns vanish. So you have a major character who was cast as black, and by doing so it reinforces positive messages about interracial romances...but you can't have him as black because the Doctor will dislike him? So either he can be played as written by a white actor or watered down into a no conflict character. Which would you choose? Not everything is about racism. If it is, then you can't cast black actors in any role where they have flaws whatsoever (especially dumb in this case, since in most aspects Danny is preternaturally competent and cool, and the Doctor is clearly in the wrong for disliking him).
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Sep 29, 2014 04:02
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