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Mortimer posted:I'd almost always mainboard it. Wrecks storm, severely hurts affinity, and at least partially damages just about every deck in the format. The only deck that won't really care is Tron, which is probably also the worst matchup if they resolve a t3 wurmcoil or karn. I'm boarding 4 molten rains but other than that there doesn't seem to be much to do against g/r tron other than hope they dont get t3 tron. Any deck that resolves wurmcoil is probably going to win unless you have a hand full of skullcracks. Edit: now i wonder, is it a good idea to board out goblin guide vs tron decks? They would have the most to benefit from a land reveal. Fingers McLongDong fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 17:06
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I'm boarding 4 molten rains but other than that there doesn't seem to be much to do against g/r tron other than hope they dont get t3 tron. Any deck that resolves wurmcoil is probably going to win unless you have a hand full of skullcracks. I think it actually depends on the specific Tron and whether you're on the play or draw. I can only really speak to U Tron since it's the only Modern deck I've played, but Goblin Guide is really not fun to deal with. If you're on the play I can't realistically answer it before I take at least 4 damage, either taking 6 (2 from it T1, 4 to cast) to dismember it on my T1 or 4 before repealing it after declare attackers and if I did that it means I had an island instead of a second tron piece and the earliest wurmcoil can land is my T4 and I'm probably dead. It's a lot worse if you're on the draw against the U Tron, because I could dismember it as soon as it attacks and just take 4 or Repeal it after just taking 2.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:33
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Mortimer posted:I'd almost always mainboard it. Wrecks storm, severely hurts affinity, and at least partially damages just about every deck in the format. The only deck that won't really care is Tron, which is probably also the worst matchup if they resolve a t3 wurmcoil or karn. I have not played against burn with g/r tron after Eidolon was printed, but I can image it being a giant pain in the rear end. Over half the deck is 3 cmc or less, with 9 cards over 3 and 20 lands.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:24
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Bugsy posted:I have not played against burn with g/r tron after Eidolon was printed, but I can image it being a giant pain in the rear end. Over half the deck is 3 cmc or less, with 9 cards over 3 and 20 lands. While that's true, the core of the strategy against burn is "sit on 3 lands and wurmcoil them to death". Worst case scenario you take 4 damage from eidolon before you can slap down the wurmcoil or karn. Even a t3 karn is super oppressive, because then you either have to divert some damage to karn to prevent a game reset, or keep losing card advantage while he pings your hand. Plus mainboard pyroclasm. Tron is not a fun matchup.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:11
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Mortimer posted:Tron is not a fun matchup. Sure, for the Tron player. Burn consistently wins turn 4. Setting up T3 Tron is 60%. It's an absurd scenario to worry about Pyroclasm simultaneously with natural tron with Wurmcoil (29% overall for T3 Wurmcoil, way way less assuming T2 Pyroclasm). Just win. Mortimer posted:, or keep losing card advantage also meaningless in this matchup.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:29
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Its almost always wrong to board goblin guide out on the play. Its a consideration on the draw when you expect a game to go long or your opponent has significant control over the top of their deck. L I'd keep it in against Tron, if the game goes long you already lost. I also don't like Molten Rain against them, by the time you are casting it they have already gotten value out of the land.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:52
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Wadjamaloo posted:Its almost always wrong to board goblin guide out on the play. Its a consideration on the draw when you expect a game to go long or your opponent has significant control over the top of their deck. L I like molten rain on the play at least, but definitely not on the draw. If you can land one t3 on the play against a deck with a greedy manabase it seems like it would go a long way.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:59
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I agree that its better on the play, but Tron does not have a greedy manabase, its pretty resilient. There is a chance the rain will blow them out, but its also very likely you will spend your entire turn 3 casting a shock just to delay wurmcoil for one more turn.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:41
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UberJew posted:I think it actually depends on the specific Tron and whether you're on the play or draw. I've had a really good matchup against burn from the little bit I've played. They're easy to disrupt as long as your draws are halfway reasonable. Sure, that turn 1 Goblin Guide is going to land, but he's also going to give you the lands you need to condescend, remand, spell burst, etc. away everything else long enough to land a Wurmcoil. Even Platinum Angel is incredibly hard for them to beat as it takes 2 burns spells or you stupidly blocking their Goblin Guide plus a burn spell. Obviously activating Mindslaver is just GG. I also have a really good sideboard: 1 Chalice and 2 Dragon's Claw are specifically for Burn, plus Spell Pierces and IRL Spellskites (I have yet to buy them online.
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Sep 26, 2014 21:25
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suicidesteve posted:I've had a really good matchup against burn from the little bit I've played. They're easy to disrupt as long as your draws are halfway reasonable. Sure, that turn 1 Goblin Guide is going to land, but he's also going to give you the lands you need to condescend, remand, spell burst, etc. away everything else long enough to land a Wurmcoil. Even Platinum Angel is incredibly hard for them to beat as it takes 2 burns spells or you stupidly blocking their Goblin Guide plus a burn spell. Obviously activating Mindslaver is just GG. I also have a really good sideboard: 1 Chalice and 2 Dragon's Claw are specifically for Burn, plus Spell Pierces and IRL Spellskites (I have yet to buy them online. Oh there's a lot of action in the sideboard (I don't have any Dragon's Claw because those slots are for Hurkyl's Recall as affinity kills faster than burn and is a worse matchup), but it's actually very possible to just be dead before you can land anything when they're on the play, especially when your tron is T4 at best because you had to land the Island to cast Repeal/Condescend. I think the Goblin Guide is still worth keeping in for burn on the play, maybe it comes out on the draw.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:12
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suicidesteve posted:I've had a really good matchup against burn from the little bit I've played. They're easy to disrupt as long as your draws are halfway reasonable. Sure, that turn 1 Goblin Guide is going to land, but he's also going to give you the lands you need to condescend, remand, spell burst, etc. away everything else long enough to land a Wurmcoil. Even Platinum Angel is incredibly hard for them to beat as it takes 2 burns spells or you stupidly blocking their Goblin Guide plus a burn spell. Obviously activating Mindslaver is just GG. I also have a really good sideboard: 1 Chalice and 2 Dragon's Claw are specifically for Burn, plus Spell Pierces and IRL Spellskites (I have yet to buy them online. Changing the subject slightly, but what's you u-tron sideboard look like? I'm still shifting mine around. I see a lot of lists putting 2-3 mana leaks in the side, so I threw a couple in my side because I wasn't completely sure on what to use yet, but I haven't encountered many situations where I wanted them. I feel like I could fill those two slots up with chalice, spellskite, or hurkylls recall and be better off.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:18
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Changing the subject slightly, but what's you u-tron sideboard look like? I'm still shifting mine around. I see a lot of lists putting 2-3 mana leaks in the side, so I threw a couple in my side because I wasn't completely sure on what to use yet, but I haven't encountered many situations where I wanted them. I feel like I could fill those two slots up with chalice, spellskite, or hurkylls recall and be better off. 2x Spellskite, 2x Hurkyl's, 2x Spell Pierce, 3x Squelch, 1x Dismember (2 in the main), 1x Oblivion Stone (1 in the main), 2x Negate, 1x Relic, 1x Mana Leak It changes a bunch as the meta at my store changes, since I pretty much play modern regularly just because my store does Modern instead of Standard for FNM (when I don't feel like drafting instead)
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Sep 26, 2014 22:40
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UberJew posted:2x Spellskite, 2x Hurkyl's, 2x Spell Pierce, 3x Squelch, 1x Dismember (2 in the main), 1x Oblivion Stone (1 in the main), 2x Negate, 1x Relic, 1x Mana Leak What matchups are you bringing mana leak and negate in? Control matchups?
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Sep 26, 2014 22:50
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Fingers McLongDong posted:What matchups are you bringing mana leak and negate in? Control matchups? Other Tron, UWR, UR Delver, the Mana Leaks come in against BGx, Pod or Twin and if my fnm had more people playing those I'd probably just run 3 rather than any Negates but I've appreciated the hard counter aspect more than I've been sad about not having enough counters to creatures so far (the Spell Snares you might expect to see are in the main, there are very few decks where it misses). Basically every counterspell comes in against any deck with Cryptic Command.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:15
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I have 4 Leyline of Sanctity in my sideboard because Burn is so hard to beat. If I get one of those, I just need to protect it from sideboarded copies of Wear, and Molten Rain is the only other card that scares me.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:17
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Changing the subject slightly, but what's you u-tron sideboard look like? I'm still shifting mine around. I see a lot of lists putting 2-3 mana leaks in the side, so I threw a couple in my side because I wasn't completely sure on what to use yet, but I haven't encountered many situations where I wanted them. I feel like I could fill those two slots up with chalice, spellskite, or hurkylls recall and be better off. To add to what others have said, here's mine- 1x Chalice of the Void (with one MB) 1x Tormod's Crypt 1x Spell Burst 2x Spell Pierce 1x Hurkyl's Recall 1x Spellskite 3x Squelch 1x Trickbind 3x Dismember 1x Aetherize Looking at it now I'm probably running too many singletons, but I'm too cheap to go out and pick up the stuff that I should double- or triple-up on. Chalice is a recent addition from when UG Infect kicked the crap out of me, but I could see it working against burn as well. I also have a single Fabricate MB for pulling up these SB artifacts.
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Sep 27, 2014 05:54
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Changing the subject slightly, but what's you u-tron sideboard look like? I'm still shifting mine around. I see a lot of lists putting 2-3 mana leaks in the side, so I threw a couple in my side because I wasn't completely sure on what to use yet, but I haven't encountered many situations where I wanted them. I feel like I could fill those two slots up with chalice, spellskite, or hurkylls recall and be better off. I like Spell Pierces there. This deck doesn't really have a problem dealing with most permanents, so Mana Leak doesn't have a huge advantage there. IRL: 3 Pithing Needle 2 Relic of Progenitus 2 Spell Pierce 2 Spellskite 2 Trickbind (  )1 Crucible of Worlds 2 Dismember 1 Chalice of the Void MTGO: 3 Pithing Needle 2 Relic of Progenitus 2 Spell Pierce 2 Trickbind 2 Dismember 1 Cyclonic Rift (main IRL) 2 Dragon's Claw 1 Chalice of the Void For burn I usually take out some Thirsts, Fabricate, Talismans, etc. Slow stuff. And I put in Pierces, Spellskite/Dragon's Claws, and Chalice.
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Sep 27, 2014 05:59
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They all seem somewhat close to my own: 1x Spellskite 1x Relic of Protogenus 2x Mana Leak 1x Trickbind 3x Squelch 2x Spell Pierce 3x Dismember 1x Aetherize 1x Hurkylls Recall I'll probably swap the leaks for Chalices at some point. Still deciding what to play, someone just told me that last time there were a couple burn decks and a couple pod decks last time. Might just roll some dice to decide the day of.
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Sep 27, 2014 09:28
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1 Repeal 2 Spell Snare 3 Squelch 3 Dismember 1 Snapcaster Mage 1 Wurmcoil Engine 2 Spell Pierce 2 Ætherize I only run one Wurmcoil MD, so the second one is in the SB for every non-Path, non-Combo matchup. I swap the Ætherize with Recall depending on if I expect more affinity or zoo, everything else is pretty bog standard.
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Sep 27, 2014 11:21
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Ohmygod! Ohmygod! Guys! Ohmygod! Ensoul Artifact! Guys? Ohmygod! Just did a little Modern event, switched in 3 Ensouls in place of my Steel Overseers last minute and it proved to be nuts. T2 5/5 Vault Skirge, Ensouled Darksteel Citadel, all that good stuff. Frustrating last game though, went 1-1 in the mirror because in the first game I went to 38 health against 2 and he was able to stabilize and put up a wall of guys with counters from Overseer. Just kept going for ages because I could just topdeck Galvantic blast and win. Won the next game for the draw, could have made it easier for myself if I remembered Ancient Grudge was castable in my graveyard.
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Sep 27, 2014 23:35
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BizarroAzrael posted:Ohmygod! Ohmygod! Guys! Ohmygod! Ensoul Artifact! Guys? Ohmygod! Welcome to the party. I swapped out my Thoughtcasts for Ensouls when M15 was released.
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Sep 27, 2014 23:37
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Valicious posted:Welcome to the party. I thought about that, but Thoughtcast is really good too. Might try this Silvestri deck. Can see the rationale to replace it with something you can and cant cast in the same situation.
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Sep 27, 2014 23:52
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Here's an attempt at Modern Dead Guy Ale: Basic plan is to disrupt their hand via Inquisitions and Duress (probably should be Thoughtseizes, but I'm cheap and paranoid about my life total) and then Tidehollow Scullers, followed up by the Hatebears plan of Thalia, Arbiters and Mindcensors to shut down whatever they want to do, while Pathing and Ghost Quartering their creatures and lands. //Lands 4 Caves of Koilos 4 Ghost Quarter 4 Godless Shrine 4 Isolated Chapel 3 Plains 3 Swamp //Spells 1 Dismember 3 Duress 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Mortify 3 Path to Exile 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor 2 Zealous Persecution //Creatures 2 Aven Mindcensor 4 Dryad Militant 2 Grand Abolisher 4 Judge's Familiar 4 Leonin Arbiter 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 3 Tidehollow Sculler //Sideboard SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus SB: 3 Kataki, War's Wage SB: 2 Rest in Peace SB: 2 Hushwing Gryff SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker SB: 2 Eidolon of Rhetoric SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine I'm really not sold on Sorin being in the list, but the anthem effect and lifelink seems good to get out of those grind matches against Junk, Jund and Pod. But he would be 5 mana to cast with Thalia on the board, and I'm not sure he's worth it over another creature or filling out sets of some removal/disruption cards. Also, Mortify could probably be another Dismember, Path or Inquisition, but it gives me outs against enchantments. Also, the sideboard - I have a lot of options against most of the big decks so I'm not sure what else to put in - maybe the UR sword?
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Sep 28, 2014 13:30
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Mondrian posted:Here's an attempt at Modern Dead Guy Ale:
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Sep 28, 2014 17:01
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Picked up a stack of Jeskai Edit: I meant Ascendancies. gently caress. Ville Valo fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 17:23
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Ville Valo posted:Picked up a stack of Jeskai Charms @ $1, after reading a lot of Modern players lose their minds over how consistent the combo deck around it has been in playtesting. I don't expect it to explode in price, but $1's the right place to get into em if they're going anywhere. For your sake I really hope you mean Jeskai Ascendancy. That deck does not play Jeskai Charm. But as for Jeskai Ascendancy, yeah that deck is so good that I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up banning it.
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Sep 28, 2014 17:30
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Ville Valo posted:Picked up a stack of Jeskai Charms @ $1, after reading a lot of Modern players lose their minds over how consistent the combo deck around it has been in playtesting. I don't expect it to explode in price, but $1's the right place to get into em if they're going anywhere. You mean Jeskai Ascendancy, right? I doubt anyone is making a combo deck with Jeskai Charm in it.
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Sep 28, 2014 17:31
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That's what I meant.  I have em right in front of me, so I know I ordered the right card, at least!
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Sep 28, 2014 17:36
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I think this was posted somewhat as a joke in the main thread, but for Modern/Legacy burn players- what do you think of Monastery Swiftspear? I'm not too familiar with the deck in those formats but I feel like it's as good as any other 1-drop in those decks, certainly worth trying over Grim Lavamancer or Vexing Devil especially in a more spell-heavy version of the deck.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:09
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C-Euro posted:I think this was posted somewhat as a joke in the main thread, but for Modern/Legacy burn players- what do you think of Monastery Swiftspear? I'm not too familiar with the deck in those formats but I feel like it's as good as any other 1-drop in those decks, certainly worth trying over Grim Lavamancer or Vexing Devil especially in a more spell-heavy version of the deck. I think it's gonna be great in U/R Delver with Treasure Cruise. In mono-red there aren't enough spells to chain to make it that great. Some friends and I did a bunch of testing with the new cards, and it was consistently a 3/4 after turn 3.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:14
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C-Euro posted:I think this was posted somewhat as a joke in the main thread, but for Modern/Legacy burn players- what do you think of Monastery Swiftspear? I'm not too familiar with the deck in those formats but I feel like it's as good as any other 1-drop in those decks, certainly worth trying over Grim Lavamancer or Vexing Devil especially in a more spell-heavy version of the deck. I thought about and did some mental math, and I don't on average it will be as consistent with damage as vexing devil or lavamancer. Lavamancer has utility in that he can direct his shock onto creatures, which is great when combined with searing blood or searing blaze. Devil is usually an automatic 4 damage unless they have a path in hand. Swiftspear isnt worth playing over goblin guide on t1, and even if she is the t1 drop she will probably have to attack into turn 3 unblocked to outdamage a devil. If you do some testing that proves otherwise though I'd be up to trying it.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:04
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It can also pigeonhole you into playing your spells in a predictable fashion to get the prowess triggers. Perhaps it doesn't make a huge difference, but I like being able to hold up cards and mana while the opponent tries to figure out what on earth you can possibly have.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:15
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C-Euro posted:I think this was posted somewhat as a joke in the main thread, but for Modern/Legacy burn players- what do you think of Monastery Swiftspear? I'm not too familiar with the deck in those formats but I feel like it's as good as any other 1-drop in those decks, certainly worth trying over Grim Lavamancer or Vexing Devil especially in a more spell-heavy version of the deck. It wasn't a joke. I Top 64'd (6-3) SCG Edison Legacy Open with a playset, and would have finished higher if I played more land. Here's what I ran: Deck: Legacy Burn KTK  //Lands 1 Barbarian Ring 19 Mountain //Spells 4 Chain Lightning 4 Fireblast 4 Lava Spike 4 Lightning Bolt 3 Price of Progress 4 Rift Bolt 3 Searing Blaze 2 Sulfuric Vortex //Creatures 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel 4 Goblin Guide 4 Monastery Swiftspear //Sideboard 2 Ensnaring Bridge 1 Price of Progress 3 Pyroblast 3 Relic of Progenitus 3 Searing Blood 1 Smash to Smithereens 2 Sulfuric Vortex  Display deck statisticsHere are notable things that happened with Monastery Swiftspear throughout the day: - Multiple Tarmogoyfs killed straight up in combat - Instrumental in actually beating Dredge w/o graveyard hate - Sideboarded out against Death & Taxes that had maindeck Spirit of the Labyrinth and Ethersworn Canonist - Crushed UW Miracles - Several opponent frowny faces as my T1 Goblin Guide reveals Daze/Spell Pierce, and I follow with Turn 2 Swiftspear and suspend Rift Bolt - Going off the traditional Lightning Bolt deals 2.7 damage per card/mana and Goblin Guide deals 3.4, I'd conservatively estimate Swiftspear was in the 3.1 range, but I didn't keep strict count. It may be higher due to absolute dominance in some games. Deofuta posted:It can also pigeonhole you into playing your spells in a predictable fashion to get the prowess triggers. Perhaps it doesn't make a huge difference, but I like being able to hold up cards and mana while the opponent tries to figure out what on earth you can possibly have. It's not a huge difference, you can still hold up mana and all that after Turn 3. Turns 1 and 2 are still ideally used for jamming your proactive stuff.* And when they do try to build a board presence using their Turn 2/3, you have a great response. *Fighting through Delvers and Stoneforges and Deathrites and Forces and Dazes. I make no claim to Swiftspear's effectiveness in Modern.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:18
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How reliable has searing blaze been without fetchlands? I'm on the fetchless plan myself, lavamancer just isn't as relevant as he used to be and I am also running 4x eidolon alongside 4x vortex, so self damage is a real thing to worry about. Searing blaze without fetches to reliably set it up and cast it at instant speed just feels wrong to me.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:27
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Wadjamaloo posted:How reliable has searing blaze been without fetchlands? I'm on the fetchless plan myself, lavamancer just isn't as relevant as he used to be and I am also running 4x eidolon alongside 4x vortex, so self damage is a real thing to worry about. Searing blaze without fetches to reliably set it up and cast it at instant speed just feels wrong to me. It's been fine, I'm always using it to clear out a blocker anyways. That was pre-KTK; it was even more-so the case today with Swiftspear. BTW, here's a Modern list that Top 8'd today http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=73421 but the numbers in that deck are crazy. Given the rise of Elves decks though I'm open to 2x Grim Lavamancer and the fetchland package similar to the UR Delver deck that won it (edit: it being the Edison Legacy Open). AnacondaHL fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 06:44
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I might be wrong about swiftspear in burn then, given the results you posted. Maybe I'll try to run it this weekend and see how it goes.
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Sep 29, 2014 12:37
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What testing I did with Swiftspear shows that it does not hobble the T3 kill for Legacy Burn, and keeps you on track for the T4 kill. I think it's fair to think of it as Goblin Guides 5-8. I have read that it is correct to assume a Guide will get in 4 damage for its one mana cost. Similarly, T1 Swiftspear may only deal 1 damage, but will likely deal 3 on T2. The real question is: Is the Swiftspear's drawback, of making you play spells predictably, worse than Guide's drawback? Kraus fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 12:49
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I might be wrong about swiftspear in burn then, given the results you posted. Maybe I'll try to run it this weekend and see how it goes. Think of it this way, if a creature was a 1/1 with haste for 1 and had "every time you cast a red burn spell it deals 1 extra damage" that'd be pretty good right? This is almost that.
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Sep 29, 2014 12:52
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jassi007 posted:Think of it this way, if a creature was a 1/1 with haste for 1 and had "every time you cast a red burn spell it deals 1 extra damage" that'd be pretty good right? This is almost that. Yeah I know. My main concern was whether it could consistently deal 4 damage before it died, or deal 4 more often than vexing devil/hellspark elemental. My mental math said probably not, but if people are reporting that it can then it's definitely worth it.
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Sep 29, 2014 12:57
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AnacondaHL posted:It wasn't a joke. I Top 64'd (6-3) SCG Edison Legacy Open with a playset, and would have finished higher if I played more land. Here's what I ran: Oh I had no idea there was another goon in the Legacy Open. Similar record, too. I ended up going 5-3-1, intentional draw the last round to guarantee top 64. This was the list I ended up running: Deck: Esper Deathblade    //Lands 1 Creeping Tar Pit 4 Flooded Strand 1 Karakas 1 Marsh Flats 4 Polluted Delta 1 Scrubland 1 Tropical Island 2 Tundra 3 Underground Sea 2 Wasteland 1 Snow-Covered Plains 1 Snow-Covered Island 1 Snow-Covered Swamp //Planeswalkers 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor 2 Liliana of the Veil //Spells 4 Brainstorm 1 Treasure Cruise 1 Council's Judgment 4 Swords to Plowshares 4 Force of Will 2 Thoughtseize //Equipment 1 Batterskull 1 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Sword of Fire and Ice //Creatures 4 Deathrite Shaman 2 Snapcaster Mage 4 Stoneforge Mystic 1 Vendilion Clique 3 True-Name Nemesis //Sideboard 2 Relic of Progenitus 2 Supreme Verdict 1 Zealous Persecution 1 Path to Exile 1 Vendilion Clique 1 Manriki-Gusari 1 Sword of Feast and Famine 2 Flusterstorm 2 Meddling Mage 1 Thoughtseize 1 Surgical Extraction Display deck statisticsI cut the Ponder in my deck for the Treasure Cruise. I think that change was good, although after playing it today, I'd probably cut the Council's Judgment for a Ponder. It doesn't particularly feel like Council's Judgment is that great anymore. I may even want a second Ponder or maybe even a second Treasure Cruise but that might be too much. My losses on the day were to Dredge, Omnishow, and Burn. My Burn matchup is usually good but my hands ended up not really working out, and the fact that Monastary Swiftspear doesn't trade with snapcaster was absurd. ChewyLSB fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 14:39
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