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Occupy Central Day 2 - sorry my photos times were messed up. I blame my SLR The banner reads "Peaceful gather, CY step down, I want real elections"  This is a rice rocket on his freaking learner's license, acting as a blockade and posting recent news article. Last night, a few truckers rolled in and just started barricading poo poo. Wish we could do that in Euro Truck simulator.  Admiralty Evening, the over pass between Central and admiralty. The crowd here is bigger than yesterday  Admiralty in the morning  No one is one the street yet because Cotton Tree Drive upbound is still blocked  Wanchai Afternoon, I saw a few of these trucks on standby ready to load poo poo. Heck, even the normally busy truck drivers were super polite and apologetic blocking other drivers.  Admiralty in the afternoon, by night this place is swamped. It was around this point the rounds of tear gas were fired.  Clean beautiful skycrapers at top, protesters at bottom  Garbage gathering stations, lots of people tried to keep the streets clean  This peak tram station is usually full of people lining up but it's already empty  Never have I seen the morning this quiet ever in my loving life   Officers are hanging back and on standby. When I walked home I went through their rest stop point. Yeah, it was awkward but they were nice and escorted me through. Don't think mainland cops would be that nice. Or officers elsewhere.    Construction going on, from the small talk, crews of people are stapling in platforms to prevent people from tripping themselves and hurting themselves. Not because they don't want people to grab tiles or whatever.  Yeah this place is normally packed  Remnants of last night's barricade?  The normal gathering spot for the bigger bus terminals in town. All buses to the amusement park Ocean park has been diverted to Tin Hau caberham fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 15:13
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caberham posted:This is really peaceful and dare I say, even HARMONIUS. Pictures in next post Indeed. It really makes the baton charging and tear gas attacks from the police on unarmed protesters last night look so shameful and irrational. Now that the government in HK is backed into a corner, I wonder what the next move will be. I don't think anyone wants the PLA involved because that's pretty much going to cause the SAR to dissolve and replace it with martial law and a 9 pm curfew. Even most members of the pro establishment don't want that. Only mouth frothing wu mao psychopaths want to see that. iceaim fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 15:26
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caberham posted:It's solidarity for what was promised to us under one country two systems. A system where all Hong Kongers can take part in fair elections. We don't want guranteed Civic, FTU, Democrat or whatever seats. Or any bias. Let us vote and nominate the Chief Executive. Is this the case? I was under the impression that once the HK exchange had been made that whatever reforms that began under Deng would be the political situation afterward. Stuff like the introduction of the Council/Legislative elections outlined in the Green (?) paper?
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Sep 29, 2014 15:27
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Sorry for the long spam of photos, I will go out now and take more. Probably not post so many next time. And put it in an album Not even trams. Geeze.  Lots of fancy stores in the fancy mall were closed for the day. One of the supply stations in Causeway Bay  Water is given out freely, and lots of people offer more supplies for everyone.  Wanting democracy in different languages!  This man was telling us about safety precautions.  Sorry Showed my true colours.  Pretty peaceful and chill  Wan Chai was pretty empty  Edge pf admiralty but by 6pm everywhere filled with people  Think Admiralty is the central aid station and staging points. Saw Alan Leong giving a speech and political negotiation progress  More people at night!  Doesn't the IFC building look like a penis?  Passage to the residential area blocked! Parts of Central were pretty quiet as well  Yes, rice rocket Nissan GTR on blockade, hope it doesn't get smashed  There was a sign in Mong Kok needing some ice but it wasn't update. So I got some ziploc bags at a store nearby for them. Too bad the store didn't sell Cheetos and Mountain Dew  It's a long day so people are just chilling  How do people take a whole bus and just drop them off? Do bus drivers sneak a bus away or something?  Media crew got the best vantage points
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Sep 29, 2014 15:35
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Some people next to us at dinner were really ornery that they cancelled the fireworks show because of this less important stuff.
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Sep 29, 2014 15:40
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Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement.
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Sep 29, 2014 15:53
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Hong Kongers are illiterate masses that lack the skill to buy a bunch of water bottles, put them in a box and then pass them out again as needed. Clearly, only the United States government has the skills necessary to orchestrate such an event.
Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 15:55
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. Farecoal posted:source ur quotes
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Sep 29, 2014 15:58
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US Government? Please. The US Government is a pawn of their CIA, just like the running dogs of Hong Kong Pro-Revoking Universal Suffrage Group
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Sep 29, 2014 15:58
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Well, personally, I blame the Jews.
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Sep 29, 2014 15:59
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. No, they just get a lot of practice. Visit hong kong on july 1st sometime. This is grassroots stuff, unless you're implying the CIA went to 7 eleven and bought a bunch of jugs of water. Because only westerners are organized. Edit: this is about 3 blocks from SOGO in Causeway Bay, from July last year.  Horatius Bonar fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 16:01
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. What the gently caress is the CIA SPY AGENT poo poo? Benny Tai and talks of the Occupy movement have been going for a while. Scholarism also had experience in setting up protests since the protests against National Education. This whole movement was initially started by University students and some help with the democrat camp. Their facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/Scholarism/info?ref=page_internal and they have been soliciting donations from the public for a while. They also have a HSBC bank account to accept donations. HK is actually well established for these events and collecting money and doing organization since 1989. What surprises me about this event is that students refused to apply for permits in the spirit of civil disobedience and how big things have become. And how everyone just wanted to volunteer.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:01
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. I never expected a wu mao poster on here. You don't think protesters can self organize? It's easier than ever to do so these days, especially in a place like HK that still has freedom of information. Also these several protester organizations out there that even run fund raising activities. All the money came from HK people. iceaim fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 16:02
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caberham posted:What the gently caress is the CIA SPY AGENT poo poo? http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/09/25/pro-beijing-media-accuses-hong-kong-student-leader-of-u-s-government-ties/ Everyone is joking about HK not being able to organise themselves in this thread, and thus the CIA being behind it all. Not so much in the media pointed to in that article.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:03
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. And behind the west...the Illuminati...and beyond the Illuminati...the Uighurs...and behind the Uighurs? Satan. And behind Satan? Bo Xilai. And behind Bo Xilai? Obama. Yes, this stinks of western involvement.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:05
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I think it was an irony not a true
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Sep 29, 2014 16:09
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Thanks for the pics by the way Caberham, the ones of Central remind me of walking from LKF to CWB at 5 am, except with sunlight. Eerie.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:10
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Jeoh posted:Well, personally, I blame the Jews.  Bloodnose The Taiwanese solidarity protests are all over the news here. I really hope everything doesn't go to poo poo tomorrow. Good luck to everyone in HK.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:13
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Horatius Bonar posted:Thanks for the pics by the way Caberham, the ones of Central remind me of walking from LKF to CWB at 5 am, except with sunlight. Eerie. I actually got that feeling a bit last night wandering around at half 3 in the morning. My brain expected my legs to be drunk and stumbling along the road looking for a taxi home but I was sober and not even sleepy. It was very strange.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:15
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. WTF? I mean I'm English and honestly, I thought the claim that the magic power of being *organised* is something only the white master race can do had died out by now. More seriously, I think this ends one of two ways: (1) Local government makes some face-saving statements, people get bored and disperse, nothing changes much. This is the good outcome. (2) Someone gets killed or crippled, protests escalate, either it burns itself out after serious violence or police overreact/military brought in because police can't handle it. Comedy (3)rd option: Xi Jinping plays long game, undercuts HK government by agreeing to whatever minority of the protestor demands he can get away with 'over the protests of local government', CY steps down and is replaced by another puppet. I mean I don't really understand what other outcomes people are expecting. No-one in power in the mainland is going to say "Oh yeah, sorry guys. We literally had no idea you felt so strongly about it. We'll totally back down and look like idiots." after they've shut down instagram and apparently WeChat moments.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:21
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. You've obviously never seen people from Hong Kong organize a group dinner or BBQ because this kind of logistical system is child's play.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:21
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Peven Stan posted:Looks too well organized to just be a "spontaneous" display of activism for democracy. Who is passing out the water? Who organized the garbage collection points and supply distribution? I was in ferguson for the protests there last month and the difference is night and day. I'm not arguing that HK shouldn't have the right to self determination but overall how organized and well greased the protests are indicate some kind of western involvement. But the protest was preplanned and organised...  The occupy guys jumped onto the initial student protest and they're much more prepared and organised than random civilians with no experience in organising large scale protests. The protest has clear goals and a clear method of achieving them.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:28
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I'm down in the city again. Crowd is big but by this time I saw a contingent of officers grouping up in the outskirts. They got 2 dudes with 2 curled up banners in back packs with a loud speaker. Hope I'm wrong but gas is going to be used again
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Sep 29, 2014 16:33
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caberham posted:I'm down in the city again. Crowd is big but by this time I saw a contingent of officers grouping up in the outskirts. They got 2 dudes with 2 curled up banners in back packs with a loud speaker. Stay safe dude 
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Sep 29, 2014 16:38
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Yeah take care mate And I refuse to believe that Peven Stan wasn't being sarcastic.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:41
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simplefish posted:Yeah take care mate I dunno, if his idea of a protest comes from OWS and Ferguson then it makes sense. Toddlers can organize a better protest than Americans.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:53
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simplefish posted:Yeah take care mate Yeah from now on I'm going to check people's rap sheets before I reply to them in this thread. I was just so excited to show off my picture of the rather large Canada Day parade I saw in HK last year.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:54
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fspades posted:I dunno, if his idea of a protest comes from OWS and Ferguson then it makes sense. Toddlers can organize a better protest than Americans. In general the police response in HK has been measured (that is, careful and by the standards of police enforcement actions in the US/UK, non-violent). The protest has been the same by the standards of protests. If there were martyrs on either side, we'd all know by now. Hope that it subsides peacefully after making its point. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the police perspective: there are goons who are police I think? Would be interesting to hear their thoughts. My view is that proper police spend a lot of time NOT hitting people who richly deserve it or seem to; domestics where the wife or kids have been badly beaten; professional violent criminals and so on where the job of the police is to be the side that keeps its temper. So it ought to be a given that when there is a real confrontation, police are going to use the toys at their disposal; the only question is how much.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:58
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This is really amazing, I no longer live in China but having spent some time this is cool to watch and I wish the best to everyone involved, stay safe guys. I've brought this up to a lot of Chinese friends, even worse ones that live here in the US, unfortunately the typical response is just rolling their eyes assuming those HK people have nothing better to do, 蛋疼 is all I hear.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:59
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Beefeater1980 posted:In general the police response in HK has been measured (that is, careful and by the standards of police enforcement actions in the US/UK, non-violent). Do the police in the US/UK pepper spray and tear gas non violent protesters like the way the HK police did?
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Sep 29, 2014 17:07
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iceaim posted:Do the police in the US/UK pepper spray and tear gas non violent protesters like the way the HK police did? Yup. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/ferguson-protests_n_5686601.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident Edit: Looks like no tear gas for nonviolent cases though. Tezzeract fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 17:08
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Not in the UK they don't. Tear gas wasn't deployed here even during the 2011 riots. I don't know about pepper spray but I've heard it's uncommon. e: Yeah doing a bit more research and the police guidelines here are that pepper spray is not to be used as crowd control, though there's been some questions over the Sussex police specifically using it apparently. Zohar fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 17:09
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Tezzeract posted:Yup. I take it you are speaking for the US?
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Sep 29, 2014 17:12
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iceaim posted:Do the police in the US/UK pepper spray and tear gas non violent protesters like the way the HK police did? Tezzeract posted:Yup. It's a good question. The answer is that part of police's job is to stop large groups that look like they might turn dangerous. That decision has to be made before the group turns violent. It's interesting that the tear gas last night came after midnight. One way of looking at it is that 1.30pm was when the police suddenly randomly changed tactics, maybe because they thought that smartphones and cameras lose their mystic strength in the witching hour. The other way is that a mob is a mob and some of the people in it are pretty ok with starting a fight, and they're more likely to be angry, rowdy and possibly drunk late at night. The other other way of looking at it is that everyone's tempers were frayed and they just snapped around then.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:15
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Zohar posted:Not in the UK they don't. Tear gas wasn't deployed here even during the 2011 riots. I don't know about pepper spray but I've heard it's uncommon. That's a good point. I had thought it was used in the 2011 riots; apparently it was just one bad egg among the police forces (you'd hardly finger sussex for that; guess it's always the quite ones).
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Sep 29, 2014 17:17
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One of China's media mouthpieces broke from the standard of ignoring this to say that lots of people are gathering in Hong Kong to celebrate the central government's support of them. I can't find the video anymore so maybe they've pulled it down. My Taiwanese friends were going nuts on Facebook about it. Most pro-independence Taiwanese are watching this as proof that there is no freedom under the CCP, even for SARs. Even the pro-China side is starting to step back and feel wary. When I was in Taiwan ~5 years ago, I was sad to see that most of the people willing to talk politics were resigned to the fact that China was eventually going to unify them, whether they wanted it or not. The protests in Taiwan gave me a lot of hope. From what I understand, there was a lot of dialogue between the Sunflower protesters in Taiwan and the Occupy Central leaders. At least one of the leaders of the Sunflower protest attempted to go to Hong Kong to meet with the Occupy leaders but was denied entry at the airport and put back on a plane to Taipei.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:26
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Take care of yourself, mate. Here's hoping it all goes well.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:28
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Invisible Handjob posted:I've brought this up to a lot of Chinese friends, even worse ones that live here in the US, unfortunately the typical response is just rolling their eyes assuming those HK people have nothing better to do, 蛋疼 is all I hear. I think people don't really understand the context and hope that things will peaceably resolve itself. Xi Jinping doesn't seem like the most amenable type and it's a bit scary waiting to see if the other shoe drops.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:30
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Beefeater1980 posted:It's a good question. The answer is that part of police's job is to stop large groups that look like they might turn dangerous. That decision has to be made before the group turns violent. It's interesting that the tear gas last night came after midnight. One way of looking at it is that 1.30pm was when the police suddenly randomly changed tactics, maybe because they thought that smartphones and cameras lose their mystic strength in the witching hour. The other way is that a mob is a mob and some of the people in it are pretty ok with starting a fight, and they're more likely to be angry, rowdy and possibly drunk late at night. The other other way of looking at it is that everyone's tempers were frayed and they just snapped around then. This tear gas was used at Central between 9:30 - 10:30 pm, according to my friend who took the picture. Not sure if it is the "last night" you're talking about though, might be the night before that. Does it look like the one you're talking about?   And yeah, lots of Taiwan-Hong Kong cross pollination with the Sunflower movement. I think I might head to the HK Trade Office in Taipei to see what's up tomorrow.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:33
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For anyone who's not aware, check out - http://www.reddit.com/live/tnc30xhiiqom - for live updates. There's a lot of rumors going on with weird stuff with the police. Stations shut down. Very little police presence. Rumors of people starting trouble for the protesters, police plants, that sort of thing. I really hope that if anyone gets violent, the protesters can capture them and put it out for everyone to see like they've been capturing thieves and turning them in to the police.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:36
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