|
Irony Be My Shield posted:
I wouldn't go that far. He's a math teacher with a military history that he has mixed feelings about. He has a keen eye for character and a wariness for people he perceives as boundary-pushers. The problem people have expressed isn't with the character itself, it's with the way he's been addressed by who is ostensibly the show's protagonist. That's not to say there isn't leeway to interpret it a few ways and say it may have been done well and with sensitivity, but dismissing complaints that quickly as "stupid" seems a little harsh to me.
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 15:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:43 |
|
|
Bicyclops posted:Yeah, I noticed that as well. I also get the feeling that Clara's difficulties with Courtney and are going to mirror some of the Doctor's difficulties with Danny in the lessons that both of them will learn. As a plot, that is either going to be handled very well or with a level of embarrassment that will make the entire Universe cringe, but it's an interesting idea, if it's what they're going for. Speaking of cringing, is that what they were going for that entire last episode? The way the Doctor hid the mission from Clara and made things worse, Clara and Danny's relationship, the Doctor's interactions with Danny, Danny suddenly being a gymnast, the budget robot enemy who was supposed to be planet destroying but can't handle a somersault, Clara making a ridiculous lie to Danny when he's just seen alien on alien action, all of it. It was all just kind of sitcom meets soap opera and was embarrassing to watch. Like it was trying too hard to be funny but was just uncomfortable instead.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:06
|
|
|
I haven’t see “The Caretaker” yet, so I won’t wade into this conversation… …but Maggie Stables. This one hurts. I’m about a 1/3 of the way through her tenure with Six and it’s been absolutely wonderful, magickal, heartbreaking, and amazing. She’s the perfect companion for the Sixth Doctor; already wise in the ways of the world, she was never afraid to call him out on his BS and admit that sometimes he was too alien and too detached from all the death and destruction around him. Where Tegan only acknowledged it when she left and even then came running back at the end, Evelyn had an entire serial, Arrangements for War dedicated to it. And the last seven minutes of that story are some of the best Big Finish has ever produced. She’ll be missed. I’m very glad Evelyn got a proper, happy ending to her story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:07
|
|
|
Xachariah posted:Speaking of cringing, is that what they were going for that entire last episode? I like Clara and Danny's relationship and the budget robot is pretty par for the course for Doctor Who. I won't comment on the other things, because I think I already have. Maggie Stables passing away is indeed very sad. It seems like she suffered on and off from illness, so hopefully she at least went surrounded by her family and friends.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:I haven’t see “The Caretaker” yet, so I won’t wade into this conversation… She gets, like, three send-offs, even. Oh, Maggie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
I don't like Danny's character and do not find him the least bit interesting. It's me, I'm the grumpy old disapproving grandfatherly Twelfth Doctor. Sorry, everyone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:45
|
|
|
Not liking soldiers is a perfectly valid opinion, but the way 12 has been written is the most angsty manchild way of going about that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
And 12 is definitely the first Doctor who could be described as a manchild.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
I see potential in everyone but I'm kind of not liking them except clara because she's kind of the straight man (and too cute to stay mad at) The prejudice thing is an important thing to explore and it's a good point that that's the theme of the episode but I'm not sure it's a great idea. Sure, character development is great, yay character development, but I kind of think that it's a huge mistake to make that the new doctor's first story. Why not spend some time selling the new doctor first? Everyone has trouble getting used to a new regeneration, and you can tell the audience "no, it's the same guy, really!" but it won't take until shown. Why not have some stories where we get endeared to this new guy, show us his good parts and his strengths before really delving into what he needs to change, that way the character is someone people want to like and want to develop rather than being like"who's this rear end in a top hat and why should I care about him". It would be one thing if it was just me watching the show, but lately just about everyone I'm close to has gotten into the show all at once after I mentioned I liked it, and some of them really are not liking 12 at all. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Re: manchild I've been thinking about that very point and I wonder if we can trace that to his being the first body in a new cycle of regenerations? Eleven "knew" he was the last life of the Doctor so things like a last stand at Trenzalore loom large. The whole "old man in a young man's body" thing was brought up throughout Smith's tenure, and there's a certain weariness that runs through much of Smith's time as the Doctor, especially in the post-Pond episodes. But now Twelve is on the scene. And he's presumably got a full regeneration slate ahead of him. He's almost the reverse of Smith, the young man in an older man's body. Unlike Eleven who was feeling the weight of his upcoming final death, Twelve knows he's got at least twelve more bodies to go after he burns through this one. And that means, whether he consciously acknowledges this or not, he can kinda cut loose. Indulge himself in some childishness because, in a way, he's gotten a second childhood!
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:And 12 is definitely the first Doctor who could be described as a manchild. You're missing the point. The character isn't a manchild, the people writing his characterization are. Or at least, that's what their writing makes them come off as. 12, as is, is one more rejection away from starting a thread on Reddit about how "the nice guy always loses out to the jock and how women always prefer meatheads and it's just NOT FAIR!!!!  "
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
jng2058 posted:And that means, whether he consciously acknowledges this or not, he can kinda cut loose. Indulge himself in some childishness because, in a way, he's gotten a second childhood! Big Mean Jerk posted:12, as is, is one more rejection away from starting a thread on Reddit about how "the nice guy always loses out to the jock and how women always prefer meatheads and it's just NOT FAIR!!!! New doctor being a space redditor. Dear god.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Not liking soldiers is a perfectly valid opinion, but the way 12 has been written is the most angsty manchild way of going about that. He's virtually always been like that, though, with maybe an exception for Seven. What it really comes down to is that the military mindset makes him uncomfortable, so he doesn't want to travel with soldiers, nor does he want to see the few people he counts as friends associate with them. Him being a sarcastic badger about it is just the Doctor. I think they could have benefited from making him a bit gentler. Maybe have him shout "Shut up!" slightly less, take out the insults about Clara's appearance. Then his dismissive way of always focusing on something else and never acknowledging the people in front of him are important becomes a bit more charming. Right now he seems to consider everyone, including the people who are really on his side, to be in his way at all times. Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
Rita Repulsa posted:New doctor being a space redditor. Dear god. 10 was basically your average E/N poster. Especially after Rose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:If Missy is revealed to just be the villain's right hand woman, and she knocks an office door to reveal MacQueen wiggling his fingers at her with a "Hello, you!", you will hear the squeal I make on the other side of the Atlantic. jng2058 posted:Re: manchild Do we know he has a full set of regenerations? I can't remember if it was implied, assumed, or ambiguous - all I recall is Smith's "breaking new ground" statement from Time. If it's ambiguous, I wonder if that uncertainty plays into some of the 'unexpectedly grumpy' thing. Just had a thought as I started to hit post - what if all this "am I a good man" stuff is because The Doctor came face to face with his own mortality, and doesn't want to be 'judged' poorly in death (He wants to get into Afterlife/Promised Land/maybe he is starting to open to the possibility of a non-science based world?). Or Moffatt just said "This Doctor is gonna be DIFFERENT" because he was bored. Whatever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
I thoroughly enjoyed this last episode, mostly because it was just a lot of fun seeing the doctor be terrible at going undercover. My take on his dislike of Danny as a soldier was more that he wasn't upset with him being a soldier as a whole but rather that he was a soldier and dating Clara. I may be misremembering but I thought he seemed to get on quite well with Danny in the scene in the courtyard area, admittedly being a bit rude about the PE teacher stuff but not outright hating him being a soldier. But once he finds out Danny and Clara are an item that's when it completely shuts down. Hopefully they do something with that dynamic though and not just leave it until the end of some episode when some catastrophe forces them to hug it out at the end. I'd actually like to see Doctor and companion in a buddy cop type relationship where they don't get along but are forced to work with each other.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
His jealous not-boyfriend "Danny's not good enough for m'lady!" is loving terrible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
moths posted:His jealous not-boyfriend "Danny's not good enough for m'lady!" is loving terrible. This, forever. Watching the Doctor and another man fight ovef a girl is loving repulsive.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
McGann posted:This is the best possible outcome for the Promise Land/Afterlife thing. So much could be done with that - having The Master be the 'silent partner' who gets revealed at the end of the 2nd Act with a "Hello, you!" cliffhanger is about the best surprise I could imagine. I don't recall it being explicitly stated, though I do seem to recall something about the Master getting a full boat of regens from the Time Lords so he could fight in the Time War. It makes sense, therefore, for the Time Lords to give the Doctor the same package deal. After all, if you're relying on the Doctor to get you out of extradimensional stasis, it makes sense to make sure he lives long enough to do it. And since the Doctor tends to live recklessly, a full thirteen lives would seem plausible. But broadly, you're right that it's been left ambiguous enough to let the writers go wherever they want with it. But since Moffat went out of his way to tie up "only 13 lives" on his watch, it would shock me for him to run over that right away, ya know?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
Do a lot of species have time travel? Just curious because obviously Time Lords and Daleks do, but not sure if there are lots who accidentally do it or just a few who can do it controllably. I don't remember seeing any evidence of future humans gaining the ability to travel through time, except for that single human who appears accidentally on the one planet out of trillions to be the last one at the right time to be the last one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Keep in mind Moffat did away with RTD's "everybody knows about aliens but somehow society remains unchanged!" stuff. So that did happen? My friend and I were watching and thinking, don't people know about aliens and poo poo? Can anyone explain when they stated people's minds had been erased?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
moths posted:His jealous not-boyfriend "Danny's not good enough for m'lady!" is loving terrible. I haven't liked the jealousy aspect of it, but at least it was somewhat alleviated by the fact that he was quite overjoyed when he thought she was dating the English professor. There's still something creepy about the Doctor being austere and paternal about his companion's choice of mates, but at least it seems clear he's trying to be her father and overstepping his bounds instead of trying to be her boyfriend and overstepping his bounds. Doug Sisk posted:Do a lot of species have time travel? Just curious because obviously Time Lords and Daleks do, but not sure if there are lots who accidentally do it or just a few who can do it controllably. I don't remember seeing any evidence of future humans gaining the ability to travel through time, except for that single human who appears accidentally on the one planet out of trillions to be the last one at the right time to be the last one. The Sontarans do. After that, there are hints that humans and a few other races have access to it throughout the series, but you have to turn to Big Finish before they really address it. The basic idea is that the Time Lords found it first, are better at it, and they're pretty strict about limiting other races from using it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:09
|
|
|
Doug Sisk posted:Do a lot of species have time travel? Just curious because obviously Time Lords and Daleks do, but not sure if there are lots who accidentally do it or just a few who can do it controllably. I don't remember seeing any evidence of future humans gaining the ability to travel through time, except for that single human who appears accidentally on the one planet out of trillions to be the last one at the right time to be the last one. Captain Jack was a time agent and had that time travel thing he wore on his wrist. But I think in the classic series it was implied that the Time Lords prevented other species from developing time travel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:10
|
|
|
Spikeguy posted:So that did happen? My friend and I were watching and thinking, don't people know about aliens and poo poo? Can anyone explain when they stated people's minds had been erased? The Moffat era has really made a complete mess of this. It's best just to not think about it unless it's brought up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
Spikeguy posted:So that did happen? My friend and I were watching and thinking, don't people know about aliens and poo poo? Can anyone explain when they stated people's minds had been erased? Series five. The cracks in time. The Doctor was surprised that Amy didn't know who the Daleks were after all the poo poo they did in the earlier seasons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
The Doctor has also stressed that the TARDIS is much better than the other forms of time travel seen in the series (like Jack's watch), so it may be that there are lots of extra limitations that apply to non-Time Lord technology.Big Mean Jerk posted:You're missing the point. The character isn't a manchild, the people writing his characterization are. Or at least, that's what their writing makes them come off as.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:18
|
|
|
Diabolik900 posted:Series five. The cracks in time. The Doctor was surprised that Amy didn't know who the Daleks were after all the poo poo they did in the earlier seasons. I thought that only applied to Amy because she had been sleeping next to one her whole life?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:I haven't really been getting this impression at all though. It comes off more like spacedad-ism, as the show said in the previous episode. If The Doctor were actually just jealous then wouldn't he have been equally annoyed when he thought Clara was dating the Matt Smith-alike? Agreed with this. His comment at the end of Time Heist made him sound like a jealous ex, but I thought this episode made it clear that he's more of an overly protective Space Dad. Spikeguy posted:I thought that only applied to Amy because she had been sleeping next to one her whole life? It's been a while since I watched it, so I could be remembering it wrong, but I always took it as applying to everyone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:23
|
|
|
Him thinking that she was going out with Matt Smith's look-alike and being over the moon about it was probably the funniest joke they've made in awhile. For once, his alien nature didn't make him seem mean in an uncomfortable way and it was ignorantly ego-centric in a doofy way instead of an uncomfortable, scary way. I like it better when he's trying to express how supportive he is and being too clingy about it rather than when he's trying to be controlling and being clingy about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:24
|
|
|
Spikeguy posted:So that did happen? My friend and I were watching and thinking, don't people know about aliens and poo poo? Can anyone explain when they stated people's minds had been erased? Do you remember the Zygon gambit with the Loch Ness Monster? Or the Yeti in the Underground? Your species has an amazing capacity for self-deception...
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Do you remember the Zygon gambit with the Loch Ness Monster? Or the Yeti in the Underground? Your species has an amazing capacity for self-deception... Oh, come on. I either wasn't born yet or was long since dead. I forgot which.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
Spikeguy posted:I thought that only applied to Amy because she had been sleeping next to one her whole life? Either way, when they rebooted the universe i think they said some stuff changed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
 ...so this hit my mailbox last night, because of course it did. Oh, Maggie. This'll be a rough listen, I think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:43
|
|
|
Brave heart, DoctorWhat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 19:10
|
|
|
marktheando posted:But I think in the classic series it was implied that the Time Lords prevented other species from developing time travel. Except in stories that involved time travel (eg. Attack of the Cybermen, Resurrection of the Daleks[/i]). In general it was portrayed as a much more clunky implementation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
I wanted to thank everyone for the audio book recommendations. I've mostly enjoyed what I've heard so far. The One Doctor was very Douglas Adams-esk at points.and I loved the monopoly bit. I would have said thanks earlier, but I hadn't hit the latest episodes and didn't want to spoil them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:There's still something creepy about the Doctor being austere and paternal about his companion's choice of mates, but at least it seems clear he's trying to be her father and overstepping his bounds instead of trying to be her boyfriend and overstepping his bounds. Not even space dad, he's space grampa. The hints to the Doctor/Clara relationship's nature were being dropped all the way back in The Rings of Akhaten, when 11 casually mentions that he visited the festival with his granddaughter. The Doctor's using Clara as an ersatz Susan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
Silhouette posted:Not even space dad, he's space grampa. The hints to the Doctor/Clara relationship's nature were being dropped all the way back in The Rings of Akhaten, when 11 casually mentions that he visited the festival with his granddaughter. The Doctor's using Clara as an ersatz Susan. That's an interesting basis for comparison because when Susan fell in love (with a soldier, no less!), the Doctor not only gave her his blessing, he knew that she would try to stay with him out of duty and made sure to relieve her of that responsibility, no matter how painful it was for him to say goodbye.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
The entire universe was rebooted, and nobody remembers anything. Except when they do. And the Daleks don't remember The Doctor. Except when they do. In this episode, why didn't The Doctor just Tardis away, finish his device, then return an instant later? Because the show needed tension and who cares.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:43 |
|
|
LividLiquid posted:The entire universe was rebooted, and nobody remembers anything. Except when they do. And the Daleks don't remember The Doctor. Except when they do. Crossing into established events is strictly forbidden, except for cheap tricks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 21:13
|
|
