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fronz posted:I stand by Necron just being a callback to the n times it's happened before that I still to this day don't know what the gently caress Necron is or what his deal is. Like, he's the grim reaper and connected to the Iifa tree or something? I don't know.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:13
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I still to this day don't know what the gently caress Necron is or what his deal is. There's a whole stupid theory you can read about on gamefaqs. Don't. He's just Zeromus Mk. 2.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:16
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fronz posted:There's a whole stupid theory you can read about on gamefaqs. Don't. He's just Zeromus Mk. 2. Pretty much this, yes.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:16
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What's difficult to get about Necron? It literally says what he is and what he is about in-game.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:17
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FF9 pulled a FF8 bullshit where technically you can read up about him if you go to the library in the castle.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:25
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Hey remember when FF1 introduced time travel so you could fight the Final Boss?
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Sep 30, 2014 00:26
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Necron looks cool as hell which is really all that matters for an RPG final boss
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Sep 30, 2014 00:27
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Help Im Alive posted:Necron looks cool as hell which is really all that matters for an RPG final boss Go play and beat Crystal Chronicles, because the final boss there looks like Necron, and thus also looks cool as hell, and I really want more people to play that game again.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:30
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fronz posted:Go play and beat Crystal Chronicles, because the final boss there looks like Necron, and thus also looks cool as hell, and I really want more people to play that game again. I'd play it more if I didn't have to dig up a bunch of working GBAs to do so. 
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Sep 30, 2014 00:40
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fronz posted:Go play and beat Crystal Chronicles, because the final boss there looks like Necron, and thus also looks cool as hell, and I really want more people to play that game again. I played it up till a point where there was some boss which I could not beat solo. That or I needed to do a whole bunch of other things to be strong enough to win on my own anyways. Fun as hell game though if you can get a whole bunch of friends and GBAs together to play it though, with the person with the bucket often trolling the hell out of everyone else.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:46
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ImpAtom posted:I'd play it more if I didn't have to dig up a bunch of working GBAs to do so. Yeah I looked up the cost of actually getting enough GBAs and link cables. $30/person, which is just insane. It's still fun solo though! Other than Rebena Te Ra, which was built for multi, but can still technically be done solo. (Never need to play it, anyway.)
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Sep 30, 2014 00:51
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Help Im Alive posted:Necron looks cool as hell which is really all that matters for an RPG final boss That's pretty true. At that point it almost doesn't matter that Kefka/Sephiroth/whoever transformed, it's that they look loving. BADASS. This likely holds true for every RPG I haven't finished.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:13
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Actually, I think I found a pretty good summary of Necron yesterday. It's on his card in Curtain Call. Can't remember it, but I remember I thought that it was a good short explanation. It's still he comes out of nowhere, but it explains why. Fake edit: looked it up. Summoned by Kuja's terror in the face of death. Actually, I guess that's how rather than why. I guess he's no less nutty than the hate of an evil moon man. On the subject of Curtain Call, I moved up to Expert Score or whatever and it's much more fun. I liked it before but it's a lot better now. Even got a couple of perfect chains. Ultimate kicked my rear end though. I'm not going to miss anything if I just skip Normal mode am I? Although maybe I should try some FMS/EMS songs first. Only done two Fs and no Es, partly because I prefer the BMS system, and also the BMS songs seem to include most of my favourites. Oh, and big boss enemies exploding is hilariously distracting. Also I guess I missed Selphiechat but her best bit is shortly after you get the Ragnarok and one of the characters suddenly has this terrible vision of Selphie in the bridge shouting "woohoo, we're flying" and then you go to the bridge and that's exactly what she's shouting. And Crystal Chronicles was okay solo, but I always got the impression it would be awesome properly four player and everything. At least you had a Moogle to carry the pot for you. Game would have been awful without that. Oh, music was great too. Never finished it. Last boss got me and I didn't feel like finishing it after that. Also it's one of the Final Fantasy games with an evil house monster, and more of them need those.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:16
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I've finally gone back to my FF13 save on the 360, working through some of the post-game. It did stop being "work" eventually, the last few hunts I did were pretty satisfying. So many tortoises to get there though, it's ridiculous. Oh I just noticed there are faces in the logo. Welp. Edit: looks like two ladies and a horse so I'm guessing Lightning, Odin, and Lightning again Tempo 119 fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 02:35
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How Rude posted:Some games are better about this, with Majora's Mask letting you slowly fix the world and making everyone's lives happier, even as you completed each dungeon the world would gradually return to a livable, plague-less state. JRPGs just love sending "YOU hosed UP" messages every. single. time a protagonist might be happy with whatever objective they completed. Electromax posted:Chrono Trigger's NG+ is like the anti-failure, you can succeed against the boss whenever you want! Cross also. Chrono Trigger is weird. You didn't exactly fail but the game begins with the world ending so you didn't win either. There is nowhere to go but up apart from Crono and friends somehow making Lavos stronger or breeding it. Chrono Cross meanwhile....ehhhhhh. loving dragons.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:58
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How Rude posted:Some games are better about this, with Majora's Mask letting you slowly fix the world and making everyone's lives happier, even as you completed each dungeon the world would gradually return to a livable, plague-less state. JRPGs just love sending "YOU hosed UP" messages every. single. time a protagonist might be happy with whatever objective they completed. I mean that sounds kind of boring!! Here's the big bad guy now go through this giant 40-50 hour quest with no conflicts or failures and hey you beat him good job game over.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:22
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g0lbez posted:I mean that sounds kind of boring!! Here's the big bad guy now go through this giant 40-50 hour quest with no conflicts or failures and hey you beat him good job game over. That's not at all what he said. The hero needs succeed every once in a while otherwise the audience has no reason to care about this useless failure.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:24
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Flytrap posted:That's not at all what he said. The hero needs succeed every once in a while otherwise the audience has no reason to care about this useless failure. See: Serge, Fei, et al.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:28
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Fei succeeded plenty of times. More times Zidane for example. Zidane and friends helped Kuja succeed at both of his Evil Plans and it was Garland who saved evryone from Evil Plan #1. He might have stopped Evil Plan #2 but our Heroes beat him up so he couldn't.
NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 03:30
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Clearly they need to make a Final Fantasy game where the playable party is composed entirely of cool secondary party members like Sazh, Quistis, Edward, whatever class in FF1 nobody used, etc. and they just succeed a lot while fighting a boss who has been a consistent presence and threat all game. Also they play chronobind. Possibly against said boss.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:34
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All of Cecil's failures are mostly unavoidable though. It's not like he can just straight up murder his best friend being mind controlled, he can't really have done anything when a giant sea god fucks up the entire ship, he can't just leave his future wife to die in a giant tower, he can't predict golbez would reincarnate as a loving floating hand to steal the crystal and then suddenly warp away, he couldn't possibly stop the twins from suddenly turning into stone when they didn't even announce what they were doing etc etc
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Sep 30, 2014 03:36
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FF4 could easily be summarized as "Life shits on Cecil, Cecil figures out a way to deal with it and moves on." Cecil is apart from all other FF lead protagonists in that the guy is already a mature leader with plenty of responsibility and a large number of people who would trust him with their lives before the game even begins. Basch would have been the second, but he didn't focus test well so Vaaaaaaan. Varance fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 03:40
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Tempo 119 posted:I've finally gone back to my FF13 save on the 360, working through some of the post-game. It did stop being "work" eventually, the last few hunts I did were pretty satisfying. So many tortoises to get there though, it's ridiculous. Oh I just noticed there are faces in the logo. Welp.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:40
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I think it's supposed to be crystal Fang and Vanille around the edges of crystallized Cocoon, but that's just a guess. If I recall correctly, they hadn't actually had an ending written until they saw that logo and then the lead designer altered the ending to fit it. FFXIII was not a well planned game.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:43
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ImpAtom posted:Pretty much. I can't think of many games where you succeed regularly. (And almost all that I can think of have that mean you fail in the end or you're helping the villain.) Another reason Suikoden 2 is the best. From the minute you get your castle all you do is succeed in crushing your enemies and taking territory from Highland, forcing them into a corner before finally invading their capital and murdering all their top generals.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:49
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g0lbez posted:All of Cecil's failures are mostly unavoidable though. It's not like he can just straight up murder his best friend being mind controlled, he can't really have done anything when a giant sea god fucks up the entire ship, he can't just leave his future wife to die in a giant tower, he can't predict golbez would reincarnate as a loving floating hand to steal the crystal and then suddenly warp away, he couldn't possibly stop the twins from suddenly turning into stone when they didn't even announce what they were doing etc etc Most of the rest are true, but the hand in question wasn't even zipping around at high speed. It slooooowly crawled over to the crystal and nobody did anything more than line up and stare at it. The crystal-stealing hand was definitely a facepalm moment for FF4.
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Sep 30, 2014 04:01
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Varance posted:FF4 could easily be summarized as "Life shits on Cecil, Cecil figures out a way to deal with it and moves on." Cecil is Miles O'Brien, but with a much more useful Keiko.
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Sep 30, 2014 04:13
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Varance posted:FF4 could easily be summarized as "Life shits on Cecil, Cecil figures out a way to deal with it and moves on." At least the cast of FFXII actually achieved poo poo, either their own personal issues, or indeed actually making a difference in the world... and this is the game that's all ABOUT the guys that history never focuses on and follows because that's the theme of Ivalice games in general. Actually gonna bring up a different game series, you can indulge me for a moment since it happens all the time in this thread. In Tales of Phantasia, the game starts off with you not succeeding until you get shot to the past, and then from there, you start succeeding, you set out to do things and it works, and it's not a secret "HAHA THE VILLAIN HAS BEATEN YOU" win, it's just a win. It's good. Never, in video games, have "Protect the X" where the X is Crystals, Pillars, maidens, seals. Because in that case, you MUST lose so they can be destroyed to lead to the end game. Making the PC incompetent. I don't need a PC that always succeeds, but if I just spent 20 hours trying to save a seal, and then after I'm done it gets blown up... I feel like my 20 hours just got wasted, why should I care? In fact, if my mentality should be "It's got to happen so the end-game can happen" why should I care about anything outside of the end-game, my success has no value except to move the story and the story is pointless because I will always fail, unless the game is going to actually observe the failure affecting the protagonists, I shouldn't both paying any attention.
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Sep 30, 2014 04:30
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Onmi posted:At least the cast of FFXII actually achieved poo poo, either their own personal issues, or indeed actually making a difference in the world... and this is the game that's all ABOUT the guys that history never focuses on and follows because that's the theme of Ivalice games in general. Actually gonna bring up a different game series, you can indulge me for a moment since it happens all the time in this thread. You shouldn't care about anything other than the endgame, except the endgame is our inevitable death so don't care about that either. Play games, hit buttons.
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Sep 30, 2014 05:18
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That's why I like the story progression in Fire Emblem, because while there are often setbacks you are still a step closer to the protagonist achieving their goals and succeeding at the end of every chapter. It's not empowering to constantly be told how dumb the protagonists are, how cosmically powerful the antagonist is, etc. If the protagonists have no say or moving force in the story then it feels arbitrary, like nothing you do as a player matters. It's also part of why FFXIII is such an awful loving game because the writers did that to the extreme the whole loving game in favor of the antagonists. edit: While this may work in some genres (horror, adventure, etc.) it certainly does not work in a 40 hour slog fest of a JRPG. You could also design the game to have success and failure be a choice, and the player characters have to live with the consequences, which Fire Emblem does well in both gameplay mechanics and story. How Rude fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 05:45
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Does TWEWY fall in either of those camps? I guess you do in some sense do the villain's bidding from the start, but it feels more subtle.
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Sep 30, 2014 06:18
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In final Fantasy app news, apparently this came out not long ago in Japan: http://appadvice.com/appnn/2014/09/square-enix-and-dena-launch-final-fantasy-record-keeper-for-ios-in-japan It looks to be a bunch of 16 bit fights from Final Fantasy games, but you can get different characters to use in it? It gives me terrible flashbacks to the clusterfuck called All the Bravest. Ran it via Genymotion and it looks like you have at least some basic control over party members, so it's not some blatant  like ATB was at least. I can't read Hirigana  And I apparently got a WM and BM from the FF7 tutorial level. It's F2P and I'm getting a Final Fantasy/Brave Frontier kind of vibe from it but maybe it'll come out here and be a decent time waster. (e: the gacha is for rare weapons apparently, and you get characters via the gameplay) Tae posted:Failing for most of the game is basically every story in video games. 7th Saga goes the extra mile with its ending: You not only get to suffer through a terribly imbalanced game where the other apprentices can all eventually one-shot you (so if an enemy has a rune you are 100% hosed) but when you beat the game Gorisa kills you, but Saro reincarnates you as Lemele. Lemele, you'll remember, is the guy who trained you and sent you out after the runes in the first place. Only it wasn't actually Lemele because he was killed years earlier and you were sent out by the bad guys. The ending's also so badly written that it doesn't say much more than "we'll protect this child from the darkness" but clearly those people failed because you were Lemele the whole time up until when the bad guys kill you, gather apprentices, train them, send them to collect the runes, then banish said apprentices to the past once all 7 are together. It's like the guys at Enix played Final Fantasy, saw the time loop chaos did and thought: "that's interesting, but how can we do something like that in a way that tells the player they're an eternal failure?" It's so hosed up that it's beautiful it its own odd way. Mega64 posted:e: Beaten to the point I'm making by the person I'm quoting. Eh, Fabul's soldiers seem to be pretty worthless considering they get taken out by those enemies even inside the castle. Outside they're getting bombed by the Red Wings and there's nothing to indicate they have any way of defending against airships. Then Cecil gets destroyed by Kain because he's a mopey knight not wanting to fight his friend who basically pogo sticks off of Cecil's face with a spear.  The Timely Howard posted:Another reason Suikoden 2 is the best. From the minute you get your castle all you do is succeed in crushing your enemies and taking territory from Highland, forcing them into a corner before finally invading their capital and murdering all their top generals. Except for the battles you're forced to retreat from, and escape Muse (and Greenhill) as well as getting shot down by Gourdo when you visit him because he's a giant shitbag even after the Beast Rune makes a meal of a city while you watch helplessly. Suikoden 2 has you crushing people but you get setbacks, and you really only succeed against Luca because Jowy is using cheat codes (a Silverburg) to help you get rid of him in a night ambush that involves your army against his White Wolves and a 3-team battle sequence that is epic as gently caress, a duel, a rain of arrows, and Luca laughing at how weak and pathetic you are because it took a loving army to kill him. God I love that part of the game so much (even if Fire Emblems and Fire Sealing runes trivialize Luca's damage). Luca Blight is the best Final Fantasy.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:36
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fronz posted:Does TWEWY fall in either of those camps? It's complicated, I guess? Sure, you do succeed in completing every mission (except the Golden Pin one, but someone else does it so it's okay), since you HAVE to to survive to the next day, but they're terms the villains set up. And yeah, you do get strung along by Joshua and he certainly doesn't have your best interests at heart, but it's only when Neku fails to win the Game by not shooting Joshua that he actually DOES succeed, so...
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Sep 30, 2014 07:45
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Evil Fluffy posted:In final Fantasy app news, apparently this came out not long ago in Japan: I just wanted Final Fantasy Picross on my phone but alas.
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Sep 30, 2014 07:53
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Evil Fluffy posted:Except for the battles you're forced to retreat from, and escape Muse (and Greenhill) as well as getting shot down by Gourdo when you visit him because he's a giant shitbag even after the Beast Rune makes a meal of a city while you watch helplessly. It's pretty funny to me use Suikoden II of all games as an example of a game where everything succeeds, considering some of the most memorable scenes of that game are Luca's annihilation of Ryube while the heroes can do nothing but watch. Even if you only count from after you get your castle, unless you're following a guide for 100% completion the game features probably a worse personal tragedy than anything in FF once you reach Matilda castle. quote:God I love that part of the game so much (even if Fire Emblems and Fire Sealing runes trivialize Luca's damage). Don't forget the rad battle theme that plays throughout it. The whole sequence really is one of the best scenes in gaming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOiPK1wrCuo
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Sep 30, 2014 08:18
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Allarion posted:I just wanted Final Fantasy Picross on my phone but alas. omfg
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Sep 30, 2014 08:29
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Succeeding all the time can be pretty boring, too. Remember Seymour? You pretty much murder him the first time you fight him. Talk about an underwhelming villain.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:28
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Allarion posted:I just wanted Final Fantasy Picross on my phone but alas. Holy gently caress
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Sep 30, 2014 13:38
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I always liked Dragon Quest VII for the whole "hero succeeding" thing, since a huge chunk of the game is basically you going around and making things better. And then you get to Dialac, where the game makes it clear that you can't succeed all the time.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:42
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Onmi posted:At least the cast of FFXII actually achieved poo poo, either their own personal issues, or indeed actually making a difference in the world... and this is the game that's all ABOUT the guys that history never focuses on and follows because that's the theme of Ivalice games in general. Actually gonna bring up a different game series, you can indulge me for a moment since it happens all the time in this thread. Yeah but Tales of Phantasia pulls a fast one on you in the very end where it's revealed Dhaos was just trying to save his own planet and was only a "villain" because the various humans and kingdoms you teamed up with to stop him were assholes who were destroying your planet. It's a victory, but a hollow one that gives you the feeling that better communication would have avoided everything.
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Sep 30, 2014 14:41
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