|
WickedHate posted:It is a DBZ joke, the punchline being that Naruto and Luffy are both very derivative of Goku. Which isn't to say they are rip offs exactly, but Dragon Ball Z is one of the most influential manga of all time, and Goku is the archtypical shonen protagonist. Heck, so's Ichigo. And Toriko. And Natsu. Basically, if you're doing a shonen manga, the main character is very likely to closely mirror Goku, Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, or both. Those two basically defined the whole medium when it comes to what main characters are like. Even if there's no combat involved at all. I think that's why Death Note blew up so huge for it's time, in that Light and L were so DIFFERENT from that archtype.
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 11:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
Ichigo always felt more akin to Yusuke to me. Only, ya know, not anywhere near as good. Why can't there be more Kenshin copies?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 11:26
|
|
|
Nice guys who are secretly stone cold super soldiers are like a dime a dozen, they're just usually not main characters anymore. Goku ripoffs are so popular because they very much fit the spirit of shonen. Since Goku practically defined it after all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:Nice guys who are secretly stone cold super soldiers are like a dime a dozen, they're just usually not main characters anymore. He said Kenshin, not Kenshiro.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 11:37
|
|
|
...Yes? We're talking about Rurouni Kenshin, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 11:40
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:...Yes? We're talking about Rurouni Kenshin, right? Kenshin was a probably gay samurai, he didn't make fools explode for a living.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 11:49
|
|
|
Testekill posted:probably gay samurai, You do know he laid the pipe into Kaoru at the end right
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 12:08
|
|
|
VJeff posted:You do know he laid the pipe into Kaoru at the end right And that he had a "wife" that he was in love with in the 'Samurai X' movie? The woman who gave him his second scar. Also, Kenshin killed a shitload of people before the series started.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 14:00
|
|
|
Testekill posted:Kenshin was a probably gay samurai, he didn't make fools explode for a living. ...Did I miss the part where Kenshin wasn't actually a repentant super-murder soldier renowned for his super-murder of everyone during the civil war?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 14:54
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Ichigo always felt more akin to Yusuke to me. Only, ya know, not anywhere near as good. One of Team Four Star's early Q&A videos covered the bleach/dbz relationship pretty well. Edit: Man youtube is being odd today.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 15:54
|
|
|
Schubalts posted:And that he had a "wife" that he was in love with in the 'Samurai X' movie? The woman who gave him his second scar. Canon with the manga, actually. And they did apparently get married and everything, but she never changed her expression and the children in the village they moved to made fun of her to Kenshin for never being any fun. It also had Venom (from Spiderman) as an assassin trying to kill Kenshin.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 16:00
|
|
|
Mordaedil posted:Canon with the manga, actually. And they did apparently get married and everything, but she never changed her expression and the children in the village they moved to made fun of her to Kenshin for never being any fun. ...I need to watch that show again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:...I need to watch that show again. Not-Venom doesn't appear in the show, sadly. Not-Gambit and Not-Omega Red totally do, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
I suppose in a technical sense, Kenshin was a "super soldier." But when I think "super soldiers" I think of Space Marines. Kenshin doesn't fit that bill. And while I'm sure there are no shortage of "I killed a bunch of people, felt bad about it and vow never to kill again" stories out there, it still beats "HAHAHA, I'M A DUMB KID WHO EATS A LOT AND IS HOPELESSLY STUPID BUT I WIN ANYWAY BECAUSE PLOT!" Kenshin was actually skilled and trained. He didn't master a move in 5 seconds whereas it took everyone else years or decades. He was a real warrior and I appreciate that about him. He wasn't even the strongest character in the show, that was his master.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 19:35
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:He wasn't even the strongest character in the show, that was his master. For that matter, he might not even be stronger than the archenemies he defeated.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
It breaks my heart Kenshin's author hasn't really gotten past Kenshin, despite having some really fun ideas. Busou Renkin was a ton of fun, and Kenshin was a great character for shonen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
Shinjobi posted:It breaks my heart Kenshin's author hasn't really gotten past Kenshin, despite having some really fun ideas. Busou Renkin was a ton of fun, and Kenshin was a great character for shonen. What are you talking about? Watsuki's gotten over Kenshin.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 21:40
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:
Goku wasn't presented as stupid, though. He was blissfully/innocently naive, not stupid. He was the most naturally gifted fighting genius around (which is why he picked up moves immediately), and pushed himself harder than almost anyone else. He was just completely naive due to seclusion and being so "good" that he assumed the best of everyone/everything. Your summation kind of ignores his archetype.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 21:58
|
|
|
Darko posted:Goku wasn't presented as stupid, though. He was blissfully/innocently naive, not stupid. He was the most naturally gifted fighting genius around (which is why he picked up moves immediately), and pushed himself harder than almost anyone else. He was just completely naive due to seclusion and being so "good" that he assumed the best of everyone/everything. Your summation kind of ignores his archetype. Hell even Ninja Goku isn't stupid. He's not well educated, sure, but that's because he was actively shunned in his community forever and he's actually kind of clever in how he fights ("I've got infinite magic so why not just constantly make clones of myself to attack with me/throw as projectiles/distract people/being human ladders to run up and chase people.")
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 22:04
|
|
|
Pirate Goku is just straight up dumb as a brick, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
TriffTshngo posted:Pirate Goku is just straight up dumb as a brick, though. Yeah pirate goku is basically brain dead.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
Cut him some slack. His brain is literally rubber.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 22:53
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:He wasn't even the strongest character in the show, that was his master. It was pretty awesome that Hiko could've just owned Shishio and Enishi in five seconds but he didn't because gently caress it I want to keep being a hermit and get drunk. Shinjobi posted:It breaks my heart Kenshin's author hasn't really gotten past Kenshin, despite having some really fun ideas. Busou Renkin was a ton of fun, and Kenshin was a great character for shonen. Man, if Buso Renkin didn't count as getting past Kenshin, then I dunno what does. That manga was loving awesome. The problem isn't that Watsuki couldn't get past Kenshin, it's that he's not a young man anymore. He was very badly ill several times during Buso Renkin because of the workload it takes to be a manga-ka. Nobody can keep that up forever except ageless freaks like the dude who does Jojo. Watsuki got to write and finish two really loving good stories and his assistants went on to make some groundbreaking stuff of their own, one of which only became the most popular manga in the history of the loving world. That's more than most guys in this industry get. On a related note, I hope you've all emotionally prepared yourself for Oda to drop dead six months after finishing One Piece.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 23:21
|
|
|
Kuroyama posted:Cut him some slack. His brain is literally rubber. So is Mr. Fantastic's and he's one of the smartest dudes alive.  ...well, he's also an abusive rear end in a top hat but you can't have everything. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 23:21
|
|
|
VJeff posted:On a related note, I hope you've all emotionally prepared yourself for Oda to drop dead six months after finishing One Piece. His poor poor family.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 23:23
|
|
|
VJeff posted:The problem isn't that Watsuki couldn't get past Kenshin, it's that he's not a young man anymore. He was very badly ill several times during Buso Renkin because of the workload it takes to be a manga-ka. Nobody can keep that up forever except ageless freaks like the dude who does Jojo. Is this why Togashi takes his time? I never read Hunter x Hunter but I know its reputation for being awesome and barely ever coming out. The again, Togashi wrote Yu Yu Hakusho and I believe his wife wrote Sailor Moon. He must be rich as gently caress so why not take it easy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
Yeah, Togashi and the Berserk guy are both almost 50 so I would assume this is why they take their sweet time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 23:35
|
|
|
VJeff posted:It was pretty awesome that Hiko could've just owned Shishio and Enishi in five seconds but he didn't because gently caress it I want to keep being a hermit and get drunk. That might be why Watsuki moved his next series to Jump SQ, and has his wife (a writer herself) help out with the story. It's called Embalming - The Another Tale of the Frankenstein. I don't know why it hasn't been picked up by Viz yet, but Watsuki is doing stuff beyond Kenshin now. I think the recent Kenshin stories were his editors asking for something to hype up the live-action movies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:"I love my dead gay son" is probably too old a reference to reach for, but I can hope. Didn't WeeklyTubeShow actually do this for the exact scene you guys are talking about? Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51bw1PXNRWo dipwood fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Is this why Togashi takes his time? I never read Hunter x Hunter but I know its reputation for being awesome and barely ever coming out. Togashi also has serious health issues (back issues, it seems) which make it hard for him to work.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 00:40
|
|
|
I think Vegeta will be more upset that Cell got to kill a Super Saiyan before he did. Or "NOBODY GETS TO KILL MY SON BUT ME!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 00:47
|
|
|
VJeff posted:Yeah, Togashi and the Berserk guy are both almost 50 so I would assume this is why they take their sweet time. The Berserk Guy has been delayed in writing because he got really into Idolmaster.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 00:50
|
|
|
VJeff posted:It was pretty awesome that Hiko could've just owned Shishio and Enishi in five seconds but he didn't because gently caress it I want to keep being a hermit and get drunk. To be fair, if you were the strongest person in the world you could and would probably just go get drunk wherever the gently caress you wanted. Also hahahaha you think Oda'll survive long enough to actually finish One Piece. ...Oh, I made myself sad. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 07:46
|
|
|
Kuroyama posted:What are you talking about? Watsuki's gotten over Kenshin. I guess he refers to the fact that Watsuki decided to revisit the manga series and "fix" a few things by releasing rewritten stories after the movies success? It's fairly good, but I think I've become a Watsuki fanboy after Rurouni Kenshin and Buso Renkin both being so amazingly good. Buso Renkin also shows how you ought to do a Shounen protagonist who is a teenager without delving into angst or making the main character and utter idiot who you wonder how even survive the fights he gets into. Another great thing about Kenshin was that the main character is like nearly 40, but looks like his early 20's and they even poke fun at this. VJeff posted:It was pretty awesome that Hiko could've just owned Shishio and Enishi in five seconds but he didn't because gently caress it I want to keep being a hermit and get drunk.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 08:03
|
|
|
Mordaedil posted:I guess he refers to the fact that Watsuki decided to revisit the manga series and "fix" a few things by releasing rewritten stories after the movies success? First, I get where you're coming from. I love Rurouni Kenshin and pray for the final arc to be animated someday. Not as big a fan of Buso Renkin, but it's still leagues beyond most of the battle series out today. Secondly, like I said earlier, Watsuki didn't stop making manga after the end of Buso Renkin. He's currently doing Embalming, it just runs in the monthly Jump SQ and hasn't been picked up by Viz, so you need to find scans if you wanna read it. If you liked the homunculi of Buso Renkin, the Frankensteins in Embalming work pretty much the same way. It also has Watsuki's usual elements to manga (minimal stupid fanservice, older leads who aren't that angsty or brain-dead). Plus, Mycroft and Sherlock Holmes show up, and Jack the Ripper is a Frankenstein that flies by exhaling really hard. What more do you want?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 08:40
|
|
|
TriffTshngo posted:Pirate Goku is just straight up dumb as a brick, though. Ghost Goku's supposed to be actually be smart but that's mostly an informed thing, aside from his fights with Byakuya and Gin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 08:43
|
|
|
Mordaedil posted:Another great thing about Kenshin was that the main character is like nearly 40, but looks like his early 20's and they even poke fun at this. Kenshin is 28 at the beginning of Rurouni Kenshin. He was like, 18 at the end of the Bakumatsu. They do poke a fair bit of fun at Kenshin and Hiko looking really young for their ages (28 and 43, respectively)
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 08:45
|
|
|
Exercu posted:Kenshin is 28 at the beginning of Rurouni Kenshin. He was like, 18 at the end of the Bakumatsu. They do poke a fair bit of fun at Kenshin and Hiko looking really young for their ages (28 and 43, respectively) Ah right, I got it reversed for a minute. Sorry about that. Kuroyama posted:Secondly, like I said earlier, Watsuki didn't stop making manga after the end of Buso Renkin. He's currently doing Embalming, it just runs in the monthly Jump SQ and hasn't been picked up by Viz, so you need to find scans if you wanna read it. If you liked the homunculi of Buso Renkin, the Frankensteins in Embalming work pretty much the same way. It also has Watsuki's usual elements to manga (minimal stupid fanservice, older leads who aren't that angsty or brain-dead). I will need to look this up, hoping that Viz does decide to cover them soon too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 09:30
|
|
|
Is Busou Renkin really that good? I discarded it because of how cliché it looked with its spiky-haired protagonist with a big sword and mysterious girl in school uniform.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 11:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:Ghost Goku's supposed to be actually be smart but that's mostly an informed thing, aside from his fights with Byakuya and Gin. Pirate Goku acknowledges his limitations and says that's why he needs a crew early on in the series, thus making him smarter then Ghost Goku.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2014 12:21
|
|
