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My Imaginary GF posted:What did Bush do that you wouldn't if you were President? Get re-elected
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Sep 29, 2014 00:12
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computer parts posted:That just shows they forgot about Teapot Dome. Everyone forgets about Teapot Dome.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:45
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My Imaginary GF posted:What did Bush do that you wouldn't if you were President? needlessly aggravate a bunch of countries (the Axis of Evil) sign the Patriot Act become a teetotaler (pre-presidency, but still)
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Sep 29, 2014 01:50
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have the physical embodiment of evil as a VP Okay maybe I'd still do that if the price was right
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Sep 29, 2014 01:51
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QuarkJets posted:have the physical embodiment of evil as a VP What, you'd offer Hillary a slot as long as she avoids the race card?
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Sep 29, 2014 01:54
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So are there any good Bush conspiracy theories left now that he's been forgotten for so long? I know the truthers are still kind of out there, but they've worked Obama into the narrative pretty thoroughly.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:07
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Jack Gladney posted:So are there any good Bush conspiracy theories left now that he's been forgotten for so long? How does one blame Obama for 9/11?
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Sep 29, 2014 02:12
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QuarkJets posted:How does one blame Obama for 9/11? Blame Clinton first, and then by the transitive property blame Obama.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:17
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Jack Gladney posted:So are there any good Bush conspiracy theories left now that he's been forgotten for so long? After 9/11, Bush hopped back on the wagon.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:27
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Watergate and Nixon represents a major crisis of faith in the American Presidency, sure. My argument is more along the lines of "people were stupid not to see that coming" not "wow, that was a radical sea-change". It was a radical sea-change. But things, like Teapot Dome, shouldn't have made it as surprising as it was. We'd had a lot of propaganda telling us how amazing America was vs. the rest of the world and a stone-cold Cold Warrior like Nixon was supposed to embody the best of what American Propaganda had to offer. 
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Sep 29, 2014 02:35
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Also Vietnam, FBI domestic surveillance, and all that those CIA experiments on unknowing human subjects probably did a lot to make people paranoid. Plus Love Canal, Silent Spring, and Unsafe at any Speed showing us how unfettered capitalism created giant private institutions that knowingly allowed people to get sick and die because it was cheaper.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:47
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Sure, and GLADIUS and the Iraq War and everything else. Plenty to make a man skeptical. But a lot of the pre-Nixon poo poo could get swept under the rug as "Anti-Communism". Or "Anti-German" or "Anti-Catholic" or "Anti-[[[series of words I am not comfortable even writing]]]. The post-Nixon era made what what previously acceptable and under-the-rug-sweepable unacceptable. The straw that breaks the camel's back. It's not that it is worse than what happened before, it is that because of what happened before eventually a seemingly arbitrary even can cause a much broader cascade of poo poo.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:56
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Jack Gladney posted:Also Vietnam, FBI domestic surveillance, and all that those CIA experiments on unknowing human subjects probably did a lot to make people paranoid. This is pure speculation since I wasn't there, but yeah Hoover's decline/death, and the revelations of the extent of his paranoia and illegal surveillance probably didn't go over too well, especially since he was sold as the American's American, Man of Justice and all that bullshit. Seeing two major political figures go down as self-serving criminals a decade after losing one to assassination would probably gently caress with your head a little. All the drugs and inhaling leaded gas all the time probably wouldn't help either.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:03
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site posted:This is pure speculation since I wasn't there, but yeah Hoover's decline/death, and the revelations of the extent of his paranoia and illegal surveillance probably didn't go over too well, especially since he was sold as the American's American, Man of Justice and all that bullshit. Seeing two major political figures go down as self-serving criminals a decade after losing one to assassination would probably gently caress with your head a little. That's why it's going to be interesting to see what life is like when most of the people who lived then are dead (so probably 25 years or so).
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Sep 29, 2014 03:08
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computer parts posted:That's why it's going to be interesting to see what life is like when most of the people who lived then are dead (so probably 25 years or so). Nah, we got hosed permanently because of the gas. Again speculation, but it seems pretty suspect how the generation that got massively leaded is producing the autist generation. That's a genetic effect that's not gonna go away soon, unfortunately.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:14
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site posted:Nah, we got hosed permanently because of the gas. Again speculation, but it seems pretty suspect how the generation that got massively leaded is producing the autist generation. That's a genetic effect that's not gonna go away soon, unfortunately. You do understand that all reliable science indicates that's just an effect of how symptoms are reported, right?
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Sep 29, 2014 03:16
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Nintendo Kid posted:You do understand that all reliable science indicates that's just an effect of how symptoms are reported, right? You did see the part where I prefaced that statement by saying it was pure speculation, right? So has leaded gas lead to any effects on offspring from that generation that we can tell?
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Sep 29, 2014 03:25
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site posted:You did see the part where I prefaced that statement by saying it was pure speculation, right? There's pure speculation and there's being ignorant of facts entirely.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:29
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Nintendo Kid posted:There's pure speculation and there's being ignorant of facts entirely. If you're gonna be a dick, you mind at least linking to an example of all reliable science to educate me and answering my question while you're at it?
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Sep 29, 2014 03:41
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SocketWrench posted:Oh come now, conspiracies have been a thing since the dawn of man. What makes the crowd bigger and stronger is we have the internet where any crank can post an argument that sounds like something people like whereas before they could only really soapbox among small groups in isolated areas. Hell, Elvis conspiracies are huge and were so long before the internet was a thing. Same with the Apollo landings and JFK. I don't know, I think the Elvis and JFK ones are at least kind of fun to discuss. At least you could kind of bullshit with friends and come up with interesting theories on them. These Alex Jones/Truther ones are annoying as hell. They come off treating it almost like the way a fundamentalists would treat their own religion and are just really dull people in general. They seem to be a different breed than the Art Bell-types who can kind of weave an entertaining yarn at least.
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Sep 29, 2014 03:44
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site posted:If you're gonna be a dick, you mind at least linking to an example of all reliable science to educate me and answering my question while you're at it? Shouldn't you read the science first, and then decide whether or not your question is meaningful?
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Sep 29, 2014 03:45
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Here's the first article I found about one of the big pieces of evidence in relation to autism rates not actually having increased. One of the big things is that, when you test adults on modern standards (informed by the DSM-IV and DSM-5), you get a similar result to the tests performed on children.
point of return fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 03:49
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SedanChair posted:Shouldn't you read the science first, and then decide whether or not your question is meaningful? Considering the theme and general style this thread has had so far, no, I didn't think it was a big deal to expect to just be corrected and then either provided a link or a decent wall of text explaining how I was wrong, in the event I was wrong. Anyways, I was thinking that some light reading I had done a while ago listed mental development issues in gestating babies as a problem, but a quick check at the WHO only talks about physical problems during pregnancy, but mental defects during childhood. Mistake in recollection, and bad extrapolation from that, on my part, but I wasn't wrong on calling NK out for being a jerk about it. Autism specifically though, yeah I just kinda pulled that out of my rear end haha. I haven't done much research on it because, to be honest, I don't have much of a reason to care about it. point of return posted:Here's the first article I found about one of the big pieces of evidence in relation to autism rates not actually having increased. One of the big things is that, when you test adults on modern standards (informed by the DSM-IV and DSM-5), you get a similar result to the tests performed on children. Thanks! site fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 04:30
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let me tell you people about all the freaky poo poo Cleopatra did and why Mark Anthony had it coming, plus did you know that Alexander-the-so-called-"Great"'s mother loved loving snakes and maybe that is why he is such a slimeball? Also, did you know that in nearby territories, the nobles claim "first night" where they deflower all the brides? Also, they do some crazy torture poo poo man. And that's just Europe. The-rod-in-puss(y) ain't got nothin' on China's Great Historian. Then there is India. I'm admittedly ignorant in that area but even in my ignorance I've seen enough Indian art to understand what kind of slander they are going to be rockin'. But, really, it's the lead in the aqueducts and the gasoline. Another one of my favorite conspiracy theories, glad to see that one is coming from inside the thread. (Also, we are living in a hollow Earth) Edit: Should have stuck with "The-rod-o-tuss" but I got excited and a little carried away. Edit: The-rod-o-puss? Does that work? I need some classical greek scholars to help me out here since I'm not even really sure how to pronounce it like back-in-the-day. Use that Classics Ph.D. and help me out. Also, share some sweet new slanders. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 04:48
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Okay so one of my favourite conspiracy related things is to do with folks denying the Holocaust, specifically the journey of Jean-Claude Pressac. Pressac was a french chemist and pharmacist who during the 1970s became enamoured with the world of Holocaust deniers, in particular the French academic Robert Faurison. In an attempt to bring a scholarly to this field Pressac decided to go to Auschwitz, conduct some research in the field and examine documentary evidence to prove beyond doubt that it was impossible for the Nazis to have killed, and more importantly, disposed of the millions of their victims bodies. However after Jean-Claude spent some time at Auschwitz itself and examining archive documentary evidence it became clear to him that indeed the development of the gas chambers and crematoria at the most infamous of concentration camps could handle the killing and disposal of tens of thousands people per month. The result of his years of study was published in 1989 in 'Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers' a seminal book which detailed the design, development and operation of the darkest of places during the second world war. It's fascinating work and available for free at the following link. http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/ I can't think of many, if any, other examples of someone setting out on a particular path and so comprehensively producing something which ultimately serves to disprove what they formerly believed.
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Sep 29, 2014 20:36
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The Koch Brothers gave a bunch of money to a famous climatologist and AGW-skeptic. With the funds to test his hypothesis, he found out that, wait, global warming is happening and it is being caused by people.
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Sep 29, 2014 20:45
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Shbobdb posted:But, really, it's the lead in the aqueducts and the gasoline. Another one of my favorite conspiracy theories, glad to see that one is coming from inside the thread. I might be missing a couple layers of meta here, but my understanding is that the deal with environmental lead from leaded gasoline isn't totally crazy-talk. It's clearly true that there was a shitload of leaded gas burned in the mid-20th century. I'm happy to be disabused of the notion, but for example there's this and while that author is hesitant to agree with the theory, he's not saying it's  .
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Sep 29, 2014 23:07
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emfive posted:I might be missing a couple layers of meta here, but my understanding is that the deal with environmental lead from leaded gasoline isn't totally crazy-talk. It's clearly true that there was a shitload of leaded gas burned in the mid-20th century. Easy answer to this issue: monitor areas where leaded gas use is still common. Or, look at China and watch if autism and other rates skyrocket in the future.
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Sep 29, 2014 23:11
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My Imaginary GF posted:Easy answer to this issue: monitor areas where leaded gas use is still common. Or, look at China and watch if autism and other rates skyrocket in the future. The China thing might be iffy though, because they burn everything. How easy is it to separate leaded gas out from other pollutants for studies like this?
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Sep 29, 2014 23:19
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site posted:The China thing might be iffy though, because they burn everything. How easy is it to separate leaded gas out from other pollutants for studies like this? We'll find out soon enough!* *soon enough being when we have to deal with a communist dictatorship full of millions of autistic and mentally ill party members
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Sep 29, 2014 23:21
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Shbobdb posted:The Koch Brothers gave a bunch of money to a famous climatologist and AGW-skeptic. With the funds to test his hypothesis, he found out that, wait, global warming is happening and it is being caused by people. Who was that?
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Sep 29, 2014 23:36
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emfive posted:I might be missing a couple layers of meta here, but my understanding is that the deal with environmental lead from leaded gasoline isn't totally crazy-talk. It's clearly true that there was a shitload of leaded gas burned in the mid-20th century. We know that ingesting/inhaling/drinking small mounts of lead can gently caress with you, mentally and physically. It'd be totally reasonable for a person to expect autism to be caused by burning leaded gasoline, if they weren't aware of any other potential causes. But then we also burn a lot of other poo poo that can gently caress with you, such as coal. And we burn a lot more coal now than we did in the 20s, 40s, etc. Plus there are countless other factors that could have an impact on autism rates, other than just "are we burning some bad stuff?"
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Sep 30, 2014 00:25
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Breathing or eating lead will cause brain damage and make you stupid, unable to concentrate, and quick to get violent. Pulling the lead out of gasoline probably made millions of lives way more pleasant.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:43
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Jack Gladney posted:Breathing or eating lead will cause brain damage and make you stupid, unable to concentrate, and quick to get violent. Pulling the lead out of gasoline probably made millions of lives way more pleasant. Hasn't the effect on crime rates been pretty well studied?
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Sep 30, 2014 01:44
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Just watched episode 3 of Unsealed: Alien Files and they straight up say that Kennedy was assassinated because he tried to get NASA to pony up about UFO sightings  They talk about the 1942 "Battle of Los Angeles" and how Kennedy tried to blow the lid off the reports that were sent to Truman about it. Ten days later he was killed. Then the lawyer guy says that aliens don't need to travel from outer space to Earth, because they can get here via the underwater alien base off the coast of California (in, of course, the Devil's Triangle). Finally, they cap it off by insinuating that there may even be an alien city in the centre of the planet.The whole episode was like an ice cream sundae of tinfoil hat insanity.
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Sep 30, 2014 01:48
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Seventh Arrow posted:Kennedy was assassinated because he tried to get NASA to pony up about UFO sightings This is sorta ripped from an old TV show called Dark Skies lol Also, thanks for addressing the leaded gas thing guys. 
site fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 03:48
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My Imaginary GF posted:We'll find out soon enough!* Sooooo, North Korea then?
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Sep 30, 2014 08:36
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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/tea-partiers-seriously-believe-in-secret-un-plan-to-turn-us-all-into-hipsters/quote:Urban planners are sometimes surprised when they’re accused of plotting to undermine capitalism and sovereignty by taking away their neighbors’ cars and forcing them to live in cities, reported The Post and Courier  edit http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/ Yep, it checks out. Old geocities design, wall of links on the left, huge tldr body in the center, scary gifs at the top. Sure is a conspiracy site, although I question their allegiance to the Democratic party. They'd probably be better of with LaRouche. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 13:32
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QuarkJets posted:We know that ingesting/inhaling/drinking small mounts of lead can gently caress with you, mentally and physically. It'd be totally reasonable for a person to expect autism to be caused by burning leaded gasoline, if they weren't aware of any other potential causes. Oh well I wasn't referring to autism, just negative health and cognition effects. I've never seen a claim that environmental lead is an autism factor (though I guess it might be).
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Sep 30, 2014 14:26
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Shbobdb posted:let me tell you people about all the freaky poo poo Cleopatra did and why Mark Anthony had it coming, plus did you know that Alexander-the-so-called-"Great"'s mother loved loving snakes and maybe that is why he is such a slimeball? Also, did you know that in nearby territories, the nobles claim "first night" where they deflower all the brides? Also, they do some crazy torture poo poo man.
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Sep 30, 2014 14:56
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