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Jerkface posted:I thought the big thing with Assail was that 3 tyrant mages were playing a game with each other using their subjects as fodder and the lost imass clans were throwing wave after wave of themselves into these tyrants who were stronger than jaghut tyrants. There was even a memory of assail in TCG right? With some laughing bearded mage guy? The mage tyrants aren't related to Assail. They controlled the Shal-Morzinn empire (thank god for google) and aren't relevant to the series except a very small indirect part in The Bonehunters. In TBH, the Perish opened a gate for the Malazan fleet that led them directly to Malaz City. The whole reason for doing so was to avoid Shal-Morzinn territory since the tyrant mages were incredibly hostile to foreigners.
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Sep 28, 2014 08:25
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IncendiaC posted:The mage tyrants aren't related to Assail. They controlled the Shal-Morzinn empire (thank god for google) and aren't relevant to the series except a very small indirect part in The Bonehunters. In TBH, the Perish opened a gate for the Malazan fleet that led them directly to Malaz City. The whole reason for doing so was to avoid Shal-Morzinn territory since the tyrant mages were incredibly hostile to foreigners. Ah right right, but as for Assail didn't that Imass lady in MoI say they were getting blowed up fighting a human tyrant on Assail? Is this person ever going to show up? I expected some crazy poo poo but it seems like Assail is a pretty normal place overall. Nothing that I would think over 40k Imass would perish in. I want a novel about the mage trio 
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Sep 28, 2014 11:39
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Jerkface posted:Ah right right, but as for Assail didn't that Imass lady in MoI say they were getting blowed up fighting a human tyrant on Assail? Is this person ever going to show up? I expected some crazy poo poo but it seems like Assail is a pretty normal place overall. Nothing that I would think over 40k Imass would perish in. The Imass lied. Yes, that is the real explanation. There never was a human army chewing them up, it was all bullshit and the entire continent of Assail is comprised of a hugely watered down badass race that are humans for all intents and purposes. God I hate that book in retrospect.
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Sep 28, 2014 12:33
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I think it was somewhere else? Trust ICE to set his book on the most boring part of the continent. If I remember correctly, the part about Imass losing to humans was just Lanas Tog outright lying. Assail is pretty much poo poo.
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Sep 28, 2014 14:17
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Yeah, even Lether seemed more dangerous than Assail as a whole. I was more expecting an empire of Jaghut tyrants or something.
amuayse fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 16:58
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Assail as a land is weird because it's billed to be just about the most dangerous part of the world to find yourself in, but it seems like Jacurucku is several orders of magnitude worse by that metric. Assail could have been good, but the writing did little to actually provide the reader with a sense of the continent, outside of it being populated by hardy (due to being Jhag descendants) people with high end martial prowess. Eh.
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Sep 28, 2014 18:38
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So was there any motivation behind Lanas Tog lying or did Esslemont simply not bother writing the story they originally hinted at?
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Sep 29, 2014 05:57
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Well it's certainly believable. Tool had to actually put effort when he dueled with the Seguleh, and he's the First Sword.
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Sep 29, 2014 15:43
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amuayse posted:Well it's certainly believable. Tool had to actually put effort when he dueled with the Seguleh, and he's the First Sword. [paraphrased] "Did you see his skill? He almost got his swords out of their scabbards before I knocked him out."
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Sep 29, 2014 15:46
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Ynglaur posted:[paraphrased] "Did you see his skill? He almost got his swords out of their scabbards before I knocked him out." [actual phrased](MoI spoilers)The undead warrior glanced up, shadowed gaze not wavering from the scouts face. 'The young one who challenged me - Senu - was... good. Had I not anticipated him, had I not prevented him from fully drawing his swords, our duel might well have been a long one. Toc scowled 'How could you tell how good he was when he didn't even get his swords clear of their scabbards?' 'He parried my attacks with them none the less.' EDIT: He wasn't even in the top ten for the Seguleh either. He called himself "an initiate of Eleventh Level" and not "the Eleventh". K'rul says later in the book "For this task, of splitting the Seer's forces into two fronts, I had expected perhaps three of four hundred Eleventh Level initiates." So there are at least hundreds of Seguleh considered as good as a person that could give Tool a good fight. Xachariah fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 16:23
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And then you also learn that Tool was deliberately trying to not hurt them too bad and using the flat of his sword instead of fighting to kill. Also that his ability as a T'Lan Imass might be less than it was when he was alive e: but that is something that I feel Erikson's books sometimes suffer from...it feels like sometimes characters skill and power will vary depending on how much of a badass he wants to make someone else look like
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Sep 29, 2014 17:27
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Levitate posted:And then you also learn that Tool was deliberately trying to not hurt them too bad and using the flat of his sword instead of fighting to kill. Also that his ability as a T'Lan Imass might be less than it was when he was alive Eh, we see Seguleh holding their own against ascendants several times throughout Erikson's and ICE's books, so if Erikson has that flaw, I don't think that scene was particularly indicative of it (and as you allude, Tool admits that he's slower as an undead than he was alive). Anyway, really, only the 7th and 3rd (who won) actually challenged him (his comments about the potential length of his fight with Senu being somewhat undercut by his insistence on using non lethal methods), and that's a society devoted to fighting and ruthlessly weeding out the weak. This almost makes Assail even more of a disappointment - you think about what sort of human element would be capable of putting up Seguleh or better levels of resistance against Imass, and then you actually read the book. Sigh. And Fall of Light won't be out for another year?? Erikson is slacking.
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Sep 29, 2014 17:51
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Nah, he deliberately stated he'd be doing the follow up trilogies slower than the Book as to not have the same editing issues as the end of the series. Also finally got around to finishing Assail, and it's both a tiny bit better than I'd expected and much, much worse than I'd hoped.
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Sep 29, 2014 18:35
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Illuyankas posted:Nah, he deliberately stated he'd be doing the follow up trilogies slower than the Book as to not have the same editing issues as the end of the series. Okay I can live with that. My late summer reading plans got shattered by mediocre page filler quality sequels to Blood Song and Weeks' current series, and then Assail, so if he wants to take a bit of extra time too tighten poo poo up, fine.
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Sep 29, 2014 19:15
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Xachariah posted:[actual phrased](MoI spoilers)The undead warrior glanced up, shadowed gaze not wavering from the scouts face. 'The young one who challenged me - Senu - was... good. Had I not anticipated him, had I not prevented him from fully drawing his swords, our duel might well have been a long one. Goddamnit, this makes me want to reread MOI again. So much awesome poo poo happens in that book. Is it bad that I'm nearly done with TCG in book form, and I'm debating taking up the audiobooks to reread them almost immediately after I finish it?
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Sep 30, 2014 01:34
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Yarrbossa posted:
Welcome to the club. Tool as an Imass gets his bones cut up pretty fuckin bad by the 2nd Seguleh, so unsure why people think he is so super good. The world moved on, that's part of the point of the books.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:05
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Spermy Smurf posted:Welcome to the club. In retrospect, too: I wonder if Tool thinks he's a lot better than he is. Because we get first-person perspective so often, it's tempting to believe everything we read, while forgetting that we're mostly getting a set of opinions strung together.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:31
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Ynglaur posted:In retrospect, too: I wonder if Tool thinks he's a lot better than he is. Because we get first-person perspective so often, it's tempting to believe everything we read, while forgetting that we're mostly getting a set of opinions strung together. It seems he does - his reaction to the brothers' dismantling of the undead KCCM speaks to that. And yes, a major theme in the books is how much the world has moved on, while at the same time how willfully ignorant to that change many older, established entities are.
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Sep 30, 2014 02:52
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So what were you guys thinking would happen in Assail before reading it? I was hoping for some sort of empire of incredibly badass Moranth or Seguleh tier humans led by Jaghut Tyrants with some Forkrul Assail kicking around. The T'lan Imass would then actually have to be careful for once instead of just murdering and then dusting off.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:25
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amuayse posted:So what were you guys thinking would happen in Assail before reading it? There was a post a long time ago that I can't seem to find. Maybe it was linked from the Malazan forums or something. The gist of it was that there were ghost armies on Assail being ressurected or some poo poo time and again, and the whole thing was just a game to some ultra powerful mages and/or ultra powerful races. Just huge armies of people being forced to slaughter each other, ressurecting, then doing it again. It was a really neat idea and I wish the book had been about that. One of the Lost Brothers mentions something about ghosts and how it's 'just like home' but we haven't seen any ghosts on Assail, and that was a part of the reasoning behind the big post. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Sep 30, 2014 20:25
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Spermy Smurf posted:One of the Lost Brothers mentions something about ghosts and how it's 'just like home' but we haven't seen any ghosts on Assail, and that was a part of the reasoning behind the big post. I may misreading this, because we do see a bunch of ghosts on Assail?
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Sep 30, 2014 20:27
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Habibi posted:I may misreading this, because we do see a bunch of ghosts on Assail? I genuinely don't remember this. There was one that met the dude with the heat-seeking spear and pointed in a direction right? There were others? Edit: Found part of the post here quote:So, my guess... once upon a time Jaghut Tyrants went to war with Forkul Assail, and that war encompassed an entire continent of peoples. Jaghut's can jump souls. FA's are nearly immortal, and both have access to some powerful mojo. End result: armies of insane fanatics who keep fighting as ghosts even after they die, and who can get new bodies, all run by tyrants who no longer care how they win or lose or who suffers in the deal so long as the game continues. And something like an invading army of Crimson Guard, Tlan Imass or an Andii agent is just an interesting distraction. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 20:34
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Habibi posted:I may misreading this, because we do see a bunch of ghosts on Assail? There are a fair amount of ghosts on Assail - all of them are ancestors of the Jaghut clans remaining, which give guidance to the younger ones and their human allies. I thought this was actually really well articulated in the book. I might have mentioned this before but I really enjoyed reading this book. It's partially due to enjoying reading about historical gold rushes in other books and partially because I always assumed Assail was more or less wilderness, not some highly populated area, but I couldn't put the drat book down. Baudin fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 22:51
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Spermy Smurf posted:I genuinely don't remember this. Baudin posted:There are a fair amount of ghosts on Assail - all of them are ancestors of the Jaghut clans remaining, which give guidance to the younger ones and their human allies.
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Oct 1, 2014 21:07
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I just finished Assail. I didn't like how the continent ended up being, but I did actually end up loving the Crimson Guard twist. I spoiled myself on it in the thread because I didnt know if I wanted to read another ICE book but the revelation and how its handled were pretty good! I liked the up close view of what it is like for a vow like that to take place, and the horror at Shimmer realizing she came back to 'life' before due to the vow, as well as the idea that all the crimson guard buried around could crawl back up and be baby Imass. Kazz T'lan Imass! After reading all the ICE books I feel like he would do better if he wasn't trying to flesh out something already mentioned in the main series. He does craft some interesting situations and locations, but they fail to live up to the expectations set in the main book I feel. The travelogue in B&B was cool. A race of human-jaghut halfbreeds was interesting. But in their context, not as interesting as they could have been. I can't wait for the next Erickson book.
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Oct 3, 2014 06:34
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Finished Reaper's Gale. I'm blowing through these much faster than I anticipated. Some thoughts - The Good:Beak's sacrifice and Fiddler's gesture to the Tiste Edur were beautiful. Amazing scene. I also greatly enjoyed the Quick Ben-Hedge-Trull Sengar-Onrack team-up. The Bad: I was disappointed by how Rhulad was dispatched. I had been thinking to that point, why doesn't someone chop off his head and throw it in a furnace? It's gonna have to be something more mystical than that. I didn't think it would be as easy as Karsa chopping off his sword-arm (Yes I know it was more complicated than that with the ghost sacrifice and all, but still). I also didn't get up until the very end why Scabandari's soul was so important to everyone. I still don't really know what Menandore and her sisters wanted with it. What was the deal with Redmask? He was a Letherii who became an Awl warrior? After showing promise in the first battle, why did he start to suck? The Sad: I was devastated by the death of Trull Sengar. He was one of my top three favorite characters, and I figured he would be a big player in the endgame. Toc's death was also really sad. I guess the moral of the book was never become best friends with a T'lan Imass. I'm still digging these a lot, but I feel like the series as a whole peaked with the Siege of Capustan. Everything's been a lot of fun, especially Karsa's arc, but Capustan was the most intense thing I've ever read. Tokelau All Star fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 07:15
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I think the idea with Redmask is that no matter how talented a commander he was, the Awl didn't stand a chance from the start, hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned by the Letherii as they were. It's a twist on the standard rebels with ideals winning with purity of heart trite. Trull was amazing and Toc is pretty much the character that gets shat upon the most in the series. He's not done though.
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Oct 3, 2014 08:00
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Habibi posted:This almost makes Assail even more of a disappointment - you think about what sort of human element would be capable of putting up Seguleh or better levels of resistance against Imass, and then you actually read the book. Sigh. And Fall of Light won't be out for another year?? Erikson is slacking. Well, slacking is not the word I would use to describe Eriksons writing. We are just used to and being spoiled by him putting out very good and long books within a short time span of one another. There are not that many authors out there that have put out so many and long books within the same short time span. Only one I can think of is Pratchett in his prime. But, yeah, I am impatient as hell for Fall of Light as well, and I am debating whether to continue with MoI for the third time or reread Forge of Darkness.
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Oct 3, 2014 09:28
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I rather liked Rhulad's character arc. He's just a small, frightened child under it all and Karsa genuinely pitied him.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:08
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Tokelau All Star posted:I also didn't get up until the very end why Scabandari's soul was so important to everyone. I still don't really know what Menandore and her sisters wanted with it. Menandore wanted to defend the Finnest from Silchas Ruin and Sukul/Sheltatha. Her speed grown rape baby said. "Shed blood among my people – any of them – and you will stand alone the day Sukul and Sheltatha arrive, the day of Silchas Ruin who comes to claim the Finnest." and "Silchas Ruin will demand the Finnest." Menandore replies that "Yes, he will! And we both know what he will do with it - and that must not be permitted!" We know what he does with the Finnest, he uses it to create an Azath house sealing the gate to Starvald Demelain, the warren of dragons. So Menandore didn't want Starvald Demelain sealed.
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Oct 3, 2014 17:00
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Cardiac posted:Well, slacking is not the word I would use to describe Eriksons writing. Neither would I. That was very much tongue in cheek.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:31
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amuayse posted:I rather liked Rhulad's character arc. He's just a small, frightened child under it all and Karsa genuinely pitied him. Agreed. I also kind of like how Rhulad, who hated the sword with every ounce of his being at the end reached for it in the "spirit world" even after Karsa warned him not to when he thought he could see Trull and be forgiven. The whole Sengar family storyline is just rough, but I liked (almost) all of it. Still a little grumpy about Trull's ending.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:13
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Aranan posted:Agreed. I also kind of like how Rhulad, who hated the sword with every ounce of his being at the end reached for it in the "spirit world" even after Karsa warned him not to when he thought he could see Trull and be forgiven. The whole Sengar family storyline is just rough, but I liked (almost) all of it. Still a little grumpy about Trull's ending. I really want a stand alone book about his son just being awesome and wrecking face with a spear and super illusionary magic.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:42
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I'm about four chapters into the book, and so far whoever said that it throws you into the middle of the action without any real explanation is right on the money. So far, it seems like a bunch of random things happening to random people, but I'm starting to get a feel for who is who. But, it's hard to tell what is happening where. Ah, it's all confusing but I like the writing style so I'm going to keep with it because I've heard that it gets better in the second book.
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Oct 3, 2014 23:33
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All that mystery and difficulty and such is overblown. Just go with the flow and enjoy! 
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Oct 3, 2014 23:43
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Yeah I went into Gardens of the Moon expecting The Sound and the Fury levels of confusion.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:45
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COOL CORN posted:I'm about four chapters into the book, and so far whoever said that it throws you into the middle of the action without any real explanation is right on the money. So far, it seems like a bunch of random things happening to random people, but I'm starting to get a feel for who is who. But, it's hard to tell what is happening where. Ah, it's all confusing but I like the writing style so I'm going to keep with it because I've heard that it gets better in the second book. Book 2 and 3 are incredible compared to book 1 and book 1 gets a lot better when you're a series veteran and you go back and re-read it and go "Ooooooh!" at the stuff you missed the first time.
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Oct 4, 2014 03:50
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Xachariah posted:Book 2 and 3 are incredible compared to book 1 and book 1 gets a lot better when you're a series veteran and you go back and re-read it and go "Ooooooh!" at the stuff you missed the first time. I second this. I'm on my first re-read and so much in Gardens just makes so much more sense. Hell the whole series in general just gets better the second time around. It's like a fine wine. When reading Forge I thought I would get more back story and become less confused. I was wrong, the web that Erikson lays out throughout this series is without equal. It is just amazing. I'm still confused but love every second of it.
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Oct 5, 2014 01:16
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If I ever re-read this series, I'm going to have a map in front of me, and draw little lines with approximate dates of when different characters are where. I think I'll need to draw my own map using SVG or it will be unreadable. On that topic: are legally distributable electronic versions of the in-book maps available in a non-EPUB format?
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Oct 5, 2014 01:45
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Ok fair warning, this is kind of a weird post. When reading fantasy books I have a tendency to not pay close attention to physical descriptions of characters (e.g. in ASOIAF I always pictured Thoros of Myr as a black guy, and Areo Hotah as looking like Oded Fehr in The Mummy, although apparently they're both white dudes). As I've gone through these books I've assigned certain looks to characters that can't be shaken no matter how their descriptions don't jive. Here are some of them: Hellian is Calamity Jane from Deadwood.  Whiskeyjack is Cid from Final Fantasy IV. Mappo Runt is also Cid, but with a pig nose.  Torvald Nom is Eric Idle.  Karsa is Drax the Destroyer.  Trull Sengar is Kibito Kai.  Smiles and Picker are both the Warrior Woman from Mad Max 2.  Kruppe is Sallah from the Indiana Jones movies. Tokelau All Star fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 03:41
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