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Sky Shadowing posted:Nationalistic ranting So, Paradox devs, do you ever feel like you need to hold off on creating, say, a Kurdistan tag because you'll get banned by countries that predicate their territorial integrity on the denial of representation of certain groups or states?
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Sep 30, 2014 18:03
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Dibujante posted:So, Paradox devs, do you ever feel like you need to hold off on creating, say, a Kurdistan tag because you'll get banned by countries that predicate their territorial integrity on the denial of representation of certain groups or states? No, but I really feel like adding kurdistan after reading that thread. Its a moral slippery area though. I probably wouldn't add ISIS right now for example.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:05
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Someone should tell that thread that Kurdistan will likely exist by 2016.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:07
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Funky Valentine posted:Someone should tell that thread that Kurdistan will likely exist by 2016. But not with Turkish territory! :cryingattaturk:
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Sep 30, 2014 18:17
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Star posted:Hmm? Well, that's mysterious. If you click on the "IMAGE NOT FOUND" above that in the newsletter, the link goes to a youtube of hypnotoad! 
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Sep 30, 2014 18:28
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Dibujante posted:So, Paradox devs, do you ever feel like you need to hold off on creating, say, a Kurdistan tag because you'll get banned by countries that predicate their territorial integrity on the denial of representation of certain groups or states? Isn't Hearts of Iron banned in China for its representation of the various Warlords/Cliques?
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Sep 30, 2014 19:18
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podcat posted:No, but I really feel like adding kurdistan after reading that thread. Well yeah, there's a pretty large qualitative difference between a nation-state and what ISIS is. The notion of "Kurdistan" might as well have existed for as long as there have been Kurds, whereas ISIS as a state is pretty much a 2014 invention. They could've maybe fit in an EvW expanded timeline mod or whatever grand strategy videogame you guys will be making 60 years from now. ...I'll probably be there to yell at 2074 PDS about getting things wrong in their early 21st century-era games won't I.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:36
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YF-23 posted:Well yeah, there's a pretty large qualitative difference between a nation-state and what ISIS is. The notion of "Kurdistan" might as well have existed for as long as there have been Kurds Nation-states are a product of 18th century political liberalism and the concept of government by consent. Before then it was naked exploitation of every ethnicity by feudal and imperial ruling classes. There were rebellions by exploited ethnicities against this, sometimes with the support of local nobilities (for personal gain, not ideology) but the desire wasn't for unification of a nation-state, but reduction of exploitation. But yeah, I think a decision to form the Kurdistan tag would be a good idea as something for the Kurdish one province minors to aspire towards.
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Sep 30, 2014 20:37
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Enjoy posted:Nation-states are a product of 18th century political liberalism and the concept of government by consent. Before then it was naked exploitation of every ethnicity by feudal and imperial ruling classes. There were rebellions by exploited ethnicities against this, sometimes with the support of local nobilities (for personal gain, not ideology) but the desire wasn't for unification of a nation-state, but reduction of exploitation. I meant that ethno-cultural prerequisites for a nation-state-of-sorts in Kurdistan exist. So while a nation-state with all the political implications of the term might be out of place in most of the EU4 timeframe, the idea of Kurdistan as a potential political entity is not. Whereas ISIS is, entirely, a 21st century fabrication.
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Sep 30, 2014 20:50
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ISIS don't perceive themselves as or want to be a nation-state so it's kind of a moot point anyway.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:11
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Zohar posted:ISIS don't perceive themselves as or want to be a nation-state so it's kind of a moot point anyway. Well, no, they are a religion-state. It's in the name.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:20
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I get the point of not adding in Kurdistan if there was no concept/movement back then, I'm sure there was some real kingdom there at some time that could have Kurds as the Primary Culture. But the nationalism is kinda detracting from their point. EDIT: Some loser posted:But it's attempt to my national-feels. You guys are lucky, because there aren't too much Turk. Lord Windy fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:41
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Since every country in EU4 works as a nation state (a country with a primary/domineering culture), I see no reason not to add Kurdistan or another Kurd dominated state in that area.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:51
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Enjoy posted:Nation-states are a product of 18th century political liberalism and the concept of government by consent. Before then it was naked exploitation of every ethnicity by feudal and imperial ruling classes. There were rebellions by exploited ethnicities against this, sometimes with the support of local nobilities (for personal gain, not ideology) but the desire wasn't for unification of a nation-state, but reduction of exploitation. Yeah, basically by analogy to e.g. the Hindustan decision.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:56
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Enjoy posted:Nation-states are a product of 18th century political liberalism and the concept of government by consent. Before then it was naked exploitation of every ethnicity by feudal and imperial ruling classes. There were rebellions by exploited ethnicities against this, sometimes with the support of local nobilities (for personal gain, not ideology) but the desire wasn't for unification of a nation-state, but reduction of exploitation. Actually, has Paradox mentioned anything about changes in that regard? I know they're changing up the whole rebellion mechanic, but are they also changing the rebels? Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if rebels were tinkered around with to suit the different periods better. Disco Infiva posted:Since every country in EU4 works as a nation state (a country with a primary/domineering culture), I see no reason not to add Kurdistan or another Kurd dominated state in that area.
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Sep 30, 2014 22:23
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Just a heads up, we've got a Cities: Skylines thread going now! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3668767
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Sep 30, 2014 22:28
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"Crusader Kings II hit one million sold copies in September! That is amazing! Thank you so much to all of you who've bought and supported the game over the years!"
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Sep 30, 2014 23:28
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Dr. Tough posted:
Kurdistan seems to me to be a totally viable alternate history to include since pretty much any large ethnic concentration of people could have ended up with their own state if the world played out differently (see: how Paradox games work). As long as it doesn't go completely overboard, more cores (especially outside of Europe) for independent nations to split off are pretty much always a positive in my book.
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Sep 30, 2014 23:42
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Disco Infiva posted:Since every country in EU4 works as a nation state (a country with a primary/domineering culture), I see no reason not to add Kurdistan or another Kurd dominated state in that area. Kurdistan shouldn't have extant cores from the start, but there's no reason the possibility of an independent Kurd-dominated state emerging should be accounted for. That region could stand to be a little more complex anyhow.
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Sep 30, 2014 23:47
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You know your country is in the right when it bans you from talking about Kurdistan or talking poo poo about your founder. 
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Oct 1, 2014 01:41
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Also you have to keep screaming at everyone that NO WE NEVER COMMITTED GENOCIDE WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT WE WOULD NEVER COMMIT GENOCIDE NOPE NOPE.
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Oct 1, 2014 01:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:Isn't Hearts of Iron banned in China for its representation of the various Warlords/Cliques? I believe it is sold there, but in a modified version where China is always united. I guess they'd have to nerf them a bit or they'd kick Japan out by 1939 every time? Anyway Beijing is really concerned with showing any disunity in China, even historically. I guess you go far enough back and it stops being a concern, but I figure we're talking Three Kingdoms or something. V for Vegas posted:"Crusader Kings II hit one million sold copies in September! That is amazing! Thank you so much to all of you who've bought and supported the game over the years!" drat son, this game is not small fry. Congratulations Paradox, I've loved your games since I first discovered HoI2 years ago, but you've really put in the effort to make some highly polished and enjoyable products, and you deserve both the monetary rewards and critical accolades. Also, oddly enough, the second is my birthday. Will I be gifted with news I like?
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Oct 1, 2014 02:17
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Enjoy posted:But yeah, I think a decision to form the Kurdistan tag would be a good idea as something for the Kurdish one province minors to aspire towards. This is a really great idea and it's something I'd love to do in-game, considering all the new provinces in that area. Plus, the nationalists will be furious so please make this happen Paradox
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Oct 1, 2014 02:38
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I'm surprised these people aren't apoplectic over Kaiserreich- Kurdistan can revolt and bring down the Ottoman Empire there, and the genocide and oppression of the Armenians is fully acknowledged.
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Oct 1, 2014 02:51
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Just wait till it gets converted to HOI4. It'll be funny to watch, assuming you actually want to watch dudes get made a video game mods instead of playing said mod.
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Oct 1, 2014 02:57
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Mister Adequate posted:I believe it is sold there, but in a modified version where China is always united. I guess they'd have to nerf them a bit or they'd kick Japan out by 1939 every time? Anyway Beijing is really concerned with showing any disunity in China, even historically. I guess you go far enough back and it stops being a concern, but I figure we're talking Three Kingdoms or something. I wonder whether everything is just united under a big ol' Communist China led by Mao in that version. It would be pretty funny if it was more acceptable to the censors to annex everything to Nationalist China, including Communist China.
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Oct 1, 2014 03:24
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You can form Germany and Italy in EU4. Where exactly is the ahistorical nation-state line drawn?
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Oct 1, 2014 05:03
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DStecks posted:You can form Germany and Italy in EU4. Where exactly is the ahistorical nation-state line drawn? When it is politically and culturally inconvenient for me to admit that my country's minorities have their own identities.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:08
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DStecks posted:You can form Germany and Italy in EU4. Where exactly is the ahistorical nation-state line drawn? Germany and Italy weren't tribal societies though, but a decision, if your primary culture is Kurdish (which doesn't exist in EUIV right now. has it been shown in AOW?), to form the Kurdistan tag if you have sufficient admin tech or something might make sense. It should probably be kept in mind though that alot of what is today Turkish Kurdistan should probably be Armenian culture and not Kurdish (they were the largest single ethnic group in much of the area, though Turks+Kurds outnumbered them combined in many cases, until the Turks and Kurds genocided them), though the fact that at the moment Kurdish culture simply does not exist is kind of stupid (I mean it exists in CK2). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 05:14
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DStecks posted:You can form Germany and Italy in EU4. Where exactly is the ahistorical nation-state line drawn? I sort of see "forming" Germany or Italy in EU4 to be more like what historically happened in Spain. Your rulers aren't, at least at first, officially titled the King of Italy or whatever, they just own enough of the region that their realm is referred to by that name unofficially. That being said, I see no reason why Kurdistan shouldn't exist in EU4.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:14
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Kavak posted:When it is politically and culturally inconvenient for me to admit that my country's minorities have their own identities. Has anyone on the Paradox forums agitated for a Northern Italy tag yet?
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Oct 1, 2014 05:25
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Mister Adequate posted:drat son, this game is not small fry. Congratulations Paradox, I've loved your games since I first discovered HoI2 years ago, but you've really put in the effort to make some highly polished and enjoyable products, and you deserve both the monetary rewards and critical accolades. I honestly would have thought CK2 hit the million mark much much earlier, but regardless, yeah that's a huge achievement for Paradox. Cheers!
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Oct 1, 2014 05:26
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Tomn posted:Has anyone on the Paradox forums agitated for a Northern Italy tag yet? They should also rename the "Sicilian" culture to "Africani" while they are at it.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:36
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Randarkman posted:It should probably be kept in mind though that alot of what is today Turkish Kurdistan should probably be Armenian culture and not Kurdish (they were the largest single ethnic group in much of the area, though Turks+Kurds outnumbered them combined in many cases, until the Turks and Kurds genocided them), though the fact that at the moment Kurdish culture simply does not exist is kind of stupid (I mean it exists in CK2). Tomn posted:Has anyone on the Paradox forums agitated for a Northern Italy tag yet? 
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Oct 1, 2014 05:39
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The entire area would probably need a bunch of much smaller provinces to make for a more accurate ethnic representation, given that many of the province cultures might represent only a plurality. Need to have at least 50 provinces stretching from Aleppo to Dagestan. They haven't done a Western Asia dev diary yet, I would expect that region as well to receive a makeover for Art of War. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 05:44
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The entire area would probably need a bunch of much smaller provinces to make for a more accurate ethnic representation, given that many of the province cultures might represent only a plurality. Need to have at least 50 provinces stretching from Aleppo to Dagestan. This is why EU4 could really use a system for cultural and religious minorities in provinces, rather than the current all-or-nothing paradigm.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:18
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Nonsense, it makes total sense that I can turn Europe and the Middle East greek in the span of 50 years.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:42
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DStecks posted:This is why EU4 could really use a system for cultural and religious minorities in provinces, rather than the current all-or-nothing paradigm. You could possibly introduce a very stripped down version of Victoria's POP system. Base it on Base Tax as I believe that is what is used as an abstract representation of population in EUIV. For each full Base Tax a province has it gets one POP which has a culture and a religion. Something like that and then you could do stuff with it, such as accepted cultures and tolerated religions contributing less towards unrest, missionaries and cultural conversion only converting one POP at a time and stuff like that. Don't know how difficult that would be (possibly quite a chore as the game is already made), but as long as you don't do stuff like track their needs, issues and wealth and allow them to move around it shouldn't be that complicated.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:54
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Randarkman posted:It should probably be kept in mind though that alot of what is today Turkish Kurdistan should probably be Armenian culture and not Kurdish (they were the largest single ethnic group in much of the area, though Turks+Kurds outnumbered them combined in many cases, until the Turks and Kurds genocided them), though the fact that at the moment Kurdish culture simply does not exist is kind of stupid (I mean it exists in CK2). It could be divided between the Armenian highlands and the Kurdish areas, considering the provinces aren't going to get any smaller. Purple is Armenian, Green is Kurdish:  (based off this although it's from 1914) Mosul should probably be divided though as the red line shows, the south has generally been Arabic while the north has been Kurdish (not to mention the other billion or so minorities that have been there).
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Oct 1, 2014 07:55
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Paradox I hope you're adding tags for Jamtland and Scania edit: From the pdox newsletter: "If you are a person who likes Paradox Interactive games, you might want to take a mental note of Thursday the second of October." Victoria 3 ??? Morholt fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 08:29
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