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Randarkman posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3595089&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Thanks, lots of good tips in there.
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Oct 1, 2014 09:04
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Morholt posted:Paradox I hope you're adding tags for Jamtland and Scania I wish, but it's Paradox Interactive, not Development Studio. Unless they specifically say PDS, I'd assume they're just publishing it. I'm not expecting V3 till after HoI4 comes out. e: New AoW dev diary by Wiz up. I think the new client state thing will be quite cool, anything that makes states more dynamic is good in my opinion. I just wonder if the AI will make any use of them. Magissima fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 13:24
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Lord Windy posted:Nonsense, it makes total sense that I can turn Europe and the Middle East greek in the span of 50 years. Even if you spent the entirety of your diplo point income for fifty years, I kind of really doubt you'd be able to convert the entirety of Europe and the Middle East to any culture over 50 years. I'm not even sure if you could do, say, France. I'm honestly curious: do the cultural-conversion complainers really do very much cultural conversion? I certainly don't: it's too expensive, and for too little gain!
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Oct 1, 2014 14:01
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PleasingFungus posted:I'm honestly curious: do the cultural-conversion complainers really do very much cultural conversion? I certainly don't: it's too expensive, and for too little gain! The culture change button is mainly for a more thorough rubbing of your nationalist boner as you build a greater *Player's Home Nation*, full of the superior *Player's nationality* race. VerdantSquire fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 14:20
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PleasingFungus posted:I'm honestly curious: do the cultural-conversion complainers really do very much cultural conversion? I certainly don't: it's too expensive, and for too little gain! The AI does a lot of cultural conversion though, even on provinces with accepted cultures.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:22
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PleasingFungus posted:Even if you spent the entirety of your diplo point income for fifty years, I kind of really doubt you'd be able to convert the entirety of Europe and the Middle East to any culture over 50 years. I'm not even sure if you could do, say, France. I sometimes use it when I don't feel like there's any significant challenges left and the cultural mapmode has become a bit of an eyesore for whatever reason. Cultural borders deserve to be pretty borders too!
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Oct 1, 2014 14:52
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PleasingFungus posted:Even if you spent the entirety of your diplo point income for fifty years, I kind of really doubt you'd be able to convert the entirety of Europe and the Middle East to any culture over 50 years. I'm not even sure if you could do, say, France. It's very easy to end up with an overabundance of DIP points, at which point you might as well spend it converting non-accepted culture provinces. I'm not entirely sure if there's any significant income/manpower gain to be made, but it's certainly nice no longer having to deal with nationalist/patriot rebels. That said, Lord Windy posted:Nonsense, it makes total sense that I can turn Europe and the Middle East greek in the span of 50 years.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:57
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DStecks posted:This is why EU4 could really use a system for cultural and religious minorities in provinces, rather than the current all-or-nothing paradigm. Randarkman posted:You could possibly introduce a very stripped down version of Victoria's POP system. Base it on Base Tax as I believe that is what is used as an abstract representation of population in EUIV. For each full Base Tax a province has it gets one POP which has a culture and a religion. Something like that and then you could do stuff with it, such as accepted cultures and tolerated religions contributing less towards unrest, missionaries and cultural conversion only converting one POP at a time and stuff like that. Ah, beat me to it! You could have a system where 1 base tax = 1 pop, and every cultural conversion or religious conversion converts one pop. This would give you the ability to do gradual conversion. You don't need to track needs, just have the system know that there's 1 greek pop left in constantinople when the ottomans conquer it or whatnot. Also you could do colonization of the new world better by having pops randomly emigrate from european countries with high war exhaustion, low stability, or low religious unity 
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Oct 1, 2014 15:22
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Woah woah woah, I wasn't trying to suggest anything this complicated. At the end of the day, culture doesn't really affect much else in the game, so a super-complicated system can't be justified. In Victoria a complex system makes sense due to the politics of the era, but in EU4 culture is rarely relevant beyond revolt risk. I'd imagine the system as each province having a single majority culture, a single "most prominent minority" culture, and an unlimited number of "present but basically irrelevant" cultural enclaves. The minority could play into colonialism in interesting ways, and you could get more refined unrest out of whether the majority or minority culture is the one of the government (i.e. a South Africa situation where the ruling class is a minority throughout the country). I'd even suggest a hard cap on stability if the government's culture isn't the majority in at least half the core provinces. Such a system also has lots of opportunities for flavour, since you could finally represent groups which were never a majority anywhere in the EU4 timeframe and as such aren't represented in the game (Jews, Roma, etc.). Dibujante posted:Also you could do colonization of the new world better by having pops randomly emigrate from european countries with high war exhaustion, low stability, or low religious unity This, also. Randarkman posted:The AI does a lot of cultural conversion though, even on provinces with accepted cultures. This strikes me as a thing that you probably shouldn't be able to do. Ultimately, what real-world process is cultural conversion simulating?
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Oct 1, 2014 15:34
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VerdantSquire posted:The culture change button is mainly for a more thorough rubbing of your nationalist boner as you build a greater *Player's Home Nation*, full of the superior *Player's nationality* race. Eh, sometimes, but sometimes it's just funny to turn half of Europe Irish or something.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:08
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YF-23 posted:It's very easy to end up with an overabundance of DIP points, at which point you might as well spend it converting non-accepted culture provinces. I'm not entirely sure if there's any significant income/manpower gain to be made, but it's certainly nice no longer having to deal with nationalist/patriot rebels. I agree that cultural conversion is pretty much the 'excess DIP sink', but I'd disagree that excess DIP is all that common these days. Now that vassal nations require DIP to integrate, I've found it to be much more valuable, even (especially!) for nations that had very little use for it before, like landlocked HRE states.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:19
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Puella Magissima posted:e: New AoW dev diary by Wiz up. I think the new client state thing will be quite cool, anything that makes states more dynamic is good in my opinion. I just wonder if the AI will make any use of them. This looks like a re-release of the one from last week.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:33
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SeaTard posted:This looks like a re-release of the one from last week. Oh, you're right. I guess I didn't see it before because they didn't put it up on the front page until today for whatever reason.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:43
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Puella Magissima posted:Oh, you're right. I guess I didn't see it before because they didn't put it up on the front page until today for whatever reason. Yeah, the front page news is nearly always behind by several days.
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Oct 1, 2014 18:00
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Mister Adequate posted:I believe it is sold there, but in a modified version where China is always united. I guess they'd have to nerf them a bit or they'd kick Japan out by 1939 every time? Anyway Beijing is really concerned with showing any disunity in China, even historically. I guess you go far enough back and it stops being a concern, but I figure we're talking Three Kingdoms or something. HoI2 was banned but I don't think there was ever an attempt for a Chinese release of 3. The government is super protectionist and does everything it can to prevent foreign game companies from dominating the market. They come up with ridiculous stuff all the time just to push companies out. No one legally buys PC games in China anyways unless it's an MMO that requires it. Seems like a waste of time and money to even bother for a small company like Paradox.
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Oct 2, 2014 05:46
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:HoI2 was banned but I don't think there was ever an attempt for a Chinese release of 3. The government is super protectionist and does everything it can to prevent foreign game companies from dominating the market. They come up with ridiculous stuff all the time just to push companies out. I don't think calling Paradox a small company is as accurate as it used to be.
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Oct 2, 2014 06:42
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I think the Basetax = Pops idea is interesting, but it might be a bit complex and not integrate gracefully with EU4s mechanics (at least as they currently stand). If you where to add a more complicated culture system to EU4 I think it should operate mostly behind the scenes. Each province could simply have a % value for cultures represented in that province. The culture with the highest % is then used as the dominant culture for that province and all extant game mechanics. Like so: Constantinople: Culture: Greek Then click or mouse-over somewhere and you get a pie-chart or list that shows something like: Greek [50%] Turkish [40%] Bulgarian [10%] Which isn't really essential for gameplay but could be used for flavor. Where this matters for gameplay is migration and assimilation. Migration/assimilation mechanics, like trade value and dynasties could be largely relegated to the background and calculated by a few algorithms that compare states and provinces. For example let's say you're the Russians and you control two Tartar territories, and you haven't gotten Tartar as an accepted culture yet. One province has high autonomy and one province has low autonomy. The Tatars in the low autonomy province are more likely to migrate to the one with higher autonomy or adopt a more Russian culture. As a result the low autonomy province slowly ticks up Russian culture (like 1% per 2 years or something) at the expense of Tatar culture, while the neighbouring province does the reverse. The Tartars are moving to the province where they can more freely be Tartars. You could have similar systems with (as mentioned before) non-accepted cultures crossing borders into countries where their culture is accepted, or people moving to provinces controlled by countries with humanist ideas. You would also get a flat, low base-growth for your primary culture, representing both assimilation and the movement and settling of merchants, civil servants and soldiers. You could then have certain events, gov't forms or idea groups tie into this by adding bonuses or penalties to migration/assimilation. It would have little impact on day-day gameplay, but over decades and centuries you might see provinces (especially on borders) flip culture and religion without arbitrary events. Culture change could just then be a flat increase in the % of a province's population that is your primary culture. Say, for example, 100 diplo points for 10% or something. Thus, in the aformentioned example, you as the Ottomans could easily convert Constantinople to your primary culture -- while say Athens (10% Turkish, 50% Greek, 40% something else) would be a huge investment. As I see it now culture conversion is something you mainly use on high basetax or important trade centres, but is otherwise kind of a waste of resources. This would would make that decision a bit more interesting while making the world a bit more dynamic in the long term and without drastically changing the way EU4 basically plays and works. You could also use almost the exact same mechanics to model the spread of various religions. Instead of converting a province's religion after a set time-frame, a missionary just adds to the growth of your primary religion (automatically stopping once that religion is dominant, but with the option to manually continue if you want to buffer against the province flipping back). Also implementing this system for religion might allow for mechanics for sending missionaries to other nation's territory. They work the same, they just operate at a penalty and have the potential to be discovered -- giving the nation in question an opinion mallus and maybe a casus belli. --- e: Of course all of this might still be unnecessary and excessive for EU4, but as far as enhancing culture goes this is how I'd consider doing it. Pinback fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 06:57
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A simple percentage could only portray religion and culture independently of one another, whereas a simple POP system would represent them both at the same time. In the colonisation example referred to earlier you'd get Protestant Germans and Irish Catholics moving to America and both being shown as such rather than blended together in a pie chart.
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Oct 2, 2014 07:12
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You could finally explain Constantinople->Istanbul by only having 1 greek pop in Constantinople at game start and having the Ottoman decision add 2 Turkish pops and voila! it is still a poor city that needs to be rebuilt but now you have a real explanation for why the Turks were able to colonize it. The issue is that we moderns have a tendency to think in terms of demographic inertia - if a place is populated primarily by Greeks, it'll continue to be populated by Greeks. Populations don't just "collapse". But that's because we're spoiled by a relative lack of war and famine. Let's use an example since I don't like arguing general principles: during the waning years of the Byzantine Empire, the Sultan of the Ottoman Turks re-populated several completely de-populated Greek cities and declared them to be "a gift from Allah" when the Byzantine Emperor got pissy about it. Populations collapse. When a state collapses, its populations can die off with it. War, famine, and general governmental incompetence (seriously? The [i]filoque[i] dispute? Seriously Byzantium?) basically depopulated huge regions of the Byzantine Empire. The Turks often didn't wipe out and replace the inhabitants so much as take over what they abandoned by simply dying out. tl;dr: you can do byzantium by representing all of its provinces as having a large max base tax but only having a tiny greek population that the turks just swamp with their demographic might  e: this post necessitates an emoticon where a penis ejaculates angry Paradox forum posters because that's what the Ottoman Empire ejaculated onto the world stage.
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Oct 2, 2014 07:26
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The true reason why we should model minority cultures and religions in EU4 has nothing to do with EU4 and everything to do with V3.
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Oct 2, 2014 07:34
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Dibujante posted:You could finally explain Constantinople->Istanbul by only having 1 greek pop in Constantinople at game start and having the Ottoman decision add 2 Turkish pops and voila! it is still a poor city that needs to be rebuilt but now you have a real explanation for why the Turks were able to colonize it. A system for rapidly conquering regions after population collapse would be really cool as a replacement for the current colonisation system
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Oct 2, 2014 07:35
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Dibujante posted:You could finally explain Constantinople->Istanbul by only having 1 greek pop in Constantinople at game start and having the Ottoman decision add 2 Turkish pops and voila! it is still a poor city that needs to be rebuilt but now you have a real explanation for why the Turks were able to colonize it. Constantinople was not majority Turkish until well after the EU4 timeframe though, so making it be that as early as 1453 while also switching the culture system from one that represents local aristocracy/authorities to one that represents the actual culture of the population would make worse historical sense.
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Oct 2, 2014 08:42
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Beamed posted:I don't think calling Paradox a small company is as accurate as it used to be. Yeah, they aren't but AAA game companies like Blizzard are constantly getting screwed by the Chinese government. I probably should have added "relatively" in front of small.
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Oct 2, 2014 14:06
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The stream mentioned in the Paradox newsletter starts up in a few minutes. http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive e; it's live e2; looks like the announcement was just a sale, no game or DLC. YF-23 fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 17:52
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I turned on the stream just in time to hear 'I just had sex with my cousin'
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Oct 2, 2014 18:33
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Up to 85% off all Paradox titles on Steam? Why yes I think I will.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:58
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woah since when is steam blue I still got excited about the sale even though I own every paradox game I want (and lots I only half-want) :[
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Oct 2, 2014 19:22
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fuf posted:woah since when is steam blue It was part of a new UI overhaul, you can also see what games you own when you're looking at a list of games in the store view, so I see if there are any portrait packs I still don't own yet easily without having to click on each DLC and look at its page  .E: Also, as always, the bundles aren't necessarily cheaper than just buying each game separately. 
burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 19:59
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I have some spare money lying around, and it would be a shame to pass up a sale like this, so I'm just going to take this as an opportunity to pick up all the graphic pack stuff. They do kinda look nice, and you could probably pick all of them up for less than 20 dollars right now.
VerdantSquire fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 20:55
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So with it being super cheap i decided to pull the trigger on darkest hour, is there a good tutorial LP or recommended learning start?
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Oct 2, 2014 20:59
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Finally picked up Sons of Abraham, Rajahs of India and Knights of Pen and Paper from that sale. Good times. If the EU4 stuff goes on a deeper sale I might pick those up too.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:04
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So is HoI 3 any good now? I bought it the moment it was released and gave up on it within days. Which is a shame since I've loved almost every game Paradox has made, EU ROME excepted. Now the Steam Bundle has got me intrigued about giving it another chance. Basically my question is this, is the game fun and playable now? Have the expansions fixed the issues that plagued the launch? Is it worth my eleven dollars?
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Oct 2, 2014 21:13
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Reset Smith posted:So is HoI 3 any good now? I bought it the moment it was released and gave up on it within days. Which is a shame since I've loved almost every game Paradox has made, EU ROME excepted. Now the Steam Bundle has got me intrigued about giving it another chance. Basically my question is this, is the game fun and playable now? Have the expansions fixed the issues that plagued the launch? Is it worth my eleven dollars? Most people say it's not worth it. Hold out for HoI 4, play Darkest Hour in the meantime.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:19
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Reset Smith posted:So is HoI 3 any good now? I bought it the moment it was released and gave up on it within days. Which is a shame since I've loved almost every game Paradox has made, EU ROME excepted. Now the Steam Bundle has got me intrigued about giving it another chance. Basically my question is this, is the game fun and playable now? Have the expansions fixed the issues that plagued the launch? Is it worth my eleven dollars? Nope. It's just not very fun even with all the changes.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:20
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What's all that different between DH and HOI3? I've dabbled in both, but haven't gone too far into either one.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:27
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COOL CORN posted:What's all that different between DH and HOI3? I've dabbled in both, but haven't gone too far into either one. I've never played DH but I'm going to assume it doesn't have you mess with every minor detail that HoI has you do. Although you can just have the AI play for you.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:09
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I've never played DH but I'm going to assume it doesn't have you mess with every minor detail that HoI has you do. Although you can just have the AI play for you. You've got it the other way around, it's HoI3 that lets you automate anything, including the war itself.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:26
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YF-23 posted:You've got it the other way around, it's HoI3 that lets you automate anything, including the war itself. That's what I said.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:29
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The most important difference between DH and HoI3 is that DH has Kaiserreich, which is like having an entire other game to play once historical WW2 feels played out. Speaking of, would people here be interested in reading a Kaiserreich LP? I'm not really qualified to make it a comprehensive tutorial but I'd like to think I'd make a good read out of it.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:17
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Chief Savage Man posted:Speaking of, would people here be interested in reading a Kaiserreich LP? I'm not really qualified to make it a comprehensive tutorial but I'd like to think I'd make a good read out of it. Considering that I've never even seen it before, sure.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:19
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